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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-23-2015, 8:58 AM Reply   
I have to admit I was cracking up when I heard that some VW s had softwear installed in them
Especially Designed to cheat smog tests. I said out loud while laughing "those tricky little Germans"
While defrauding the public is never a good thing & and one should not be laughing, VW is gonna get hammered big time. I just had to crack up at the German ingenuity of simply turning off smog controlles while the car is "run mode" and then choking the car while its in smog "test mode" ! LOL LOL I can't wait for the German VW jokes to start rolling out.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vw-ceo-w...ind-the-wheel/
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-23-2015, 9:28 AM Reply   
I nick named our Passat TDI "Tom Brady" now since I thought it was cheating the air...turns out that my 2012 isn't on the cheater's list so I will need to stop calling it that.
Old    Jason (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       09-23-2015, 9:33 AM Reply   
I'm wondering how this will affect resale value on the TDI cars? I almost bought a Sportswagon TDI a few years ago, but held off... Almost glad I did now! Bosch has a press release doing damage control already claiming their parts are at the route of the problem but they build them according to VW specifications and should not be held responsible.

Either way this is going to hurt the pockets of VW big time! Their stock is already taking a huge dump. I bet there will be law suits for false advertising eventually for "clean diesel" marketing literature.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-23-2015, 9:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by corerider View Post
I'm wondering how this will affect resale value on the TDI cars?
I read this article on this very thing yesterday:
http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/forget...l-r-1732181250
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2015, 9:52 AM Reply   
As long as the wife keeps getting 43mpg in her TDI A3, I don't really care.
Old    Steven Pederson (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-23-2015, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
As long as the wife keeps getting 43mpg in her TDI A3, I don't really care.
I'm guessing you will receive a recall letter in about a month that you wont want done.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2015, 11:18 AM Reply   
Possible. But it's a lease that we're considering buying. If that happens they can keep it. I guess it depends on what they intend to do for the recall.
Old    Eric Scott (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-23-2015, 11:31 AM Reply   
I wonder if the cars will perform the same after the recall work is done. My guess is no, or the fraud never would've been perpetrated in the first place. There are going to be some amazing class action lawsuits in the coming months.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-23-2015, 12:11 PM Reply   
Yup. Because once they are modified, they will no longer perform as promised when they were sold. People are going to lose it.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-23-2015, 12:39 PM Reply   
How many people will actually take them in? It's so bad the CEO is the fall guy. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ssions-scandal
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-23-2015, 12:47 PM Reply   
I guess I am having a hard time seeing how it would use more fuel to have cleaner emissions. A richer mixture must be better for emissions or something? I tracked the fuel mileage on my '12 Passat TDI for 37,000+ miles and the average is 38.7 mpg with a best of 44.3 and it's one of the cars that's following the rules.

One thing to note, my car does not use as much Urea as they claimed that it would. The dealer told me that I would need to add it every 8k to 10k miles and I have gone up to 15k miles and the light never came on. I was trying to see exactly how long it would take but then we decided to take a trip and I didn't want to take a chance so I added a bottle so now I don't know.

Last edited by timmyb; 09-23-2015 at 12:53 PM.
Old    Jason Neves (jv210)      Join Date: Feb 2006       09-23-2015, 6:26 PM Reply   
I got an A3 TDI and love it, gets great gas millage and is pretty quick. It sucks VW got caught, but from reading articles the last few days this may not be only a VW thing.

Timmy there are only a few things VW can possible do to fix this problem. A re-flash of the ECU that will definitely decrease gas millage and HP & TQ values or they can figure out how to put a UREA system on these motors and still keep the MPG and HP & TQ that was offered. I for one would want a re-flash so I can them go out and get a chip to put it back the way it was. The reason you're getting great gas mileage and your motor is not effected is because it has a UREA system already on it.

For the people saying I wonder how many cars will actually get this done, I believe the answer will be everyone. At least in California where I live I'm pretty sure the the EPA and CARB will make the DMV not issue renewals until this is done. The same could be said for All states and their DMV offices.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-23-2015, 8:53 PM Reply   
Most likely the "correct" software requires more exhaust gas recirculation. I've always thought it was funny that as you decreased emissions you got less mpg for "plugging everything up" per se but I did see some convincing data that you save more harmful material than you loose total even though you use a little more fuel.

They will get cooked for this.
What annoys me though is that the epa of course is not all out there for what's best for the environment. With 2007 clean diesel restrictions they royally screwed the best alternative fuel we had at the time and still a very good one in biodiesel. Instead, they supported use of emission equipment that would lower mpg and use more foreign oil. Instead of supporting the biodiesel industry, a fuel that is arguably better than oil is better carbon wise by far, and NOx wise with a little meth injection(which also gives a hp boost) and is made from recycled material that Americans make. But I digress.

What sucks double so is that they got busted for being crooked and cheating, yet we still got half assed and our diesels are still less efficient (mpg wise) than euro diesels! Hell if you're gonna cheat full on cheat! Don't half ass it!
Old    JBC (bcoppinger)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-25-2015, 12:23 PM Reply   
Attached Images
 
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-25-2015, 12:24 PM Reply   
LOL! That's funny!
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-26-2015, 7:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by King12 View Post
Most likely the "correct" software requires more exhaust gas recirculation. I've always thought it was funny that as you decreased emissions you got less mpg for "plugging everything up" per se but I did see some convincing data that you save more harmful material than you loose total even though you use a little more fuel.

They will get cooked for this.
What annoys me though is that the epa of course is not all out there for what's best for the environment. With 2007 clean diesel restrictions they royally screwed the best alternative fuel we had at the time and still a very good one in biodiesel. Instead, they supported use of emission equipment that would lower mpg and use more foreign oil. Instead of supporting the biodiesel industry, a fuel that is arguably better than oil is better carbon wise by far, and NOx wise with a little meth injection(which also gives a hp boost) and is made from recycled material that Americans make. But I digress.

What sucks double so is that they got busted for being crooked and cheating, yet we still got half assed and our diesels are still less efficient (mpg wise) than euro diesels! Hell if you're gonna cheat full on cheat! Don't half ass it!
My experience with bio diesel has been 10%+ less MPG. I've tested it numerous times running from Cali to Wa. and it's the same thing every time. I'd like to know other people's experiences.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-26-2015, 8:05 PM Reply   
Is that b100? I've literally never heard that. Most I've heard is 3% which was also statistically insignificant, even if we say 10% though, so around 5 mpg at 50mpg that's still equal or less than thre new emissions restrictions cause, and is more carbon neutral, is recycled waste and supports American jobs not foreign oil. So still worth it to me, but back to vw

Wonder how much this will end up hurting. Seems all auto companies stock prices are dropping.

Last edited by King12; 09-26-2015 at 8:11 PM.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-26-2015, 9:16 PM Reply   
Do the new diesel vehicles get actual smog tested or just sniff tested? My 2005 Ram 2500 cummins started getting smogged in 2009... stupid california and CARB, but it is just an inspection (aftermarket parts), checking to make sure that 3 required monitors are "on line", and then a visual "sniff test". Did something change for diesels produced after a certain year? If not, then it doesn't matter if the VW TDI's have a "cheat mode", it won't affect the sniff test...
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-26-2015, 10:01 PM Reply   
Do any consumers actually give a monkeys about emissions? MPG yes of course but emissions?
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-26-2015, 10:12 PM Reply   
I do. I doubt many do. I think they care about the problems they entail, if they "believe" in them. But doubt they actually care about other than mpg which they can boast about
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-27-2015, 12:06 AM Reply   
Ralph; I think emissions should be sort of something you don't have to think about or care about. My 2c is that all cars should have a standard depending in class sort of a "bare minimum" or Bar that all cars have to jump over. Some people will pay extra to get the "Clean" version or brand but I think the mass people depend on the EPA or CARB to set the bar.

Pretty funny some reports I was seeing was saying VW Clean cars were spewing 40times the epa allotted amount.

I'm sure the people that payed for their "clean diesel" are pissed and want and deserve a refund.

God knows lawyers all over the world are gonna make millions off this.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       09-27-2015, 12:13 AM Reply   
I Paid thousands to remove an emission system that cost thousands.
Ain't that crazy
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-28-2015, 11:37 AM Reply   
Now it looks like my car IS affected. Guess there are conflicting reports out there...

VW's official apology website:
http://vwdieselinfo.com/
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-28-2015, 3:35 PM Reply   
Hmmm....no mention of Audi. Maybe I'm good.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-28-2015, 6:09 PM Reply   
Not too fast... Audi busted too
http://www.wsj.com/articles/audi-con...dal-1443436979
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-28-2015, 6:46 PM Reply   
In Florida I bet the Gov Rick Scott would give them an award for being so clever.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-28-2015, 7:51 PM Reply   
I wonder what the states plan on doing about these car's reports are saying they are spewing 40 times the legal limit.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       10-06-2015, 1:01 PM Reply   
Does anyone who actually owns one of these engines care? Does any person who bought want decreased emissions at the cost of increased fuel consumption/decreased MPG? Eliminate the EPA (and DOT safety requirements too) and let consumers have what they want, whatever balance of price/efficiency/emissions the market will bear.
Old    Steven Pederson (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       10-06-2015, 1:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadunkle View Post
Does anyone who actually owns one of these engines care? Does any person who bought want decreased emissions at the cost of increased fuel consumption/decreased MPG? Eliminate the EPA (and DOT safety requirements too) and let consumers have what they want, whatever balance of price/efficiency/emissions the market will bear.
I would venture to guess there is quite a few hipsters out there who bought one thinking they were buying it to be green.
Old    E Double U (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       10-06-2015, 5:02 PM Reply   
[QUOTEI wonder what the states plan on doing about these car's reports are saying they are spewing 40 times the legal limit.][/QUOTE]
I can see where people don't want to have their cars modified and are happy with it.
But I can see California mandating it, and not letting people re-register their cars until the modification is done. They can also put something in place as a mandate of all licensed smog stations. So at least in California, you have until your next registration renewal do to something about it.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-08-2015, 9:54 AM Reply   
Got an "official" letter in the mail from VW yesterday. It basically says what they have on the website and that they are working towards a solution.
Old    Sean M (magic)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-09-2015, 7:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sppeders View Post
I would venture to guess there is quite a few hipsters out there who bought one thinking they were buying it to be green.
I know people like this, from smug to smog. They where very emotionally attached to their purchase and feel personally offended by the deception.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-09-2015, 7:55 AM Reply   
I would be pretty upset.
Old    D (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       10-10-2015, 3:39 PM Reply   
Friend of mine works at an Audi dealer. They are part of an auto group that also owns a Vee dub dealer. He said most of their customers are concerned with how to not have the mods done automatically when serviced. And this is in greenie libral tree hugging Washington

Last edited by Cabledog; 10-10-2015 at 3:43 PM.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-12-2015, 4:53 PM Reply   
Got a letter in the mail today. They pointed me here to fill out the paperwork to receive $500 prepaid visa card and $500 credit at a dealership:
https://www.vwdieselinfo.com/goodwill_package/
Old    Boarder85 (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       11-13-2015, 8:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
Got a letter in the mail today. They pointed me here to fill out the paperwork to receive $500 prepaid visa card and $500 credit at a dealership:
https://www.vwdieselinfo.com/goodwill_package/
Be careful, while I haven't read the terms of the payment, I imagine if you accept any form of compensation you forfeit any rights to a class action settlement.
Old    dylan (deelan)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-13-2015, 9:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fouroheight68 View Post
Be careful, while I haven't read the terms of the payment, I imagine if you accept any form of compensation you forfeit any rights to a class action settlement.

I bet your right, even though it says otherwise. We are holding out for a fix or some kind of buy back. I don't think they can satisfy the costumer and the emissions. We will see.

This is what it says
Restrictions apply. Affected customers eligible for the Goodwill Package are not required to waive their rights or release their claims against Volkswagen Group of America in order to receive the Package

Last edited by deelan; 11-13-2015 at 9:19 AM.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-13-2015, 5:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fouroheight68 View Post
Be careful, while I haven't read the terms of the payment, I imagine if you accept any form of compensation you forfeit any rights to a class action settlement.
Didn't say that anywhere. Now you do have to go to the dealership to redeem the goodwill package once you receive it in the mail so that might be where they have that legal jargon.

I've received several letters in the mail from companies wanting me to be in their class action suit. Most recent one is from this company: http://www.hgdlawfirm.com/vwemissionslawsuit/

EDIT - they say it's ok:
Quote:
In sum, you may sign up for the “Goodwill Package” but please be mindful of signing or agreeing to anything else without contacting us first. If you are at all concerned about any additional documents, please do not sign it and get us a copy to review. Volkswagen has been made aware of our representation of you and that you are asserting a claim against it. We have informed Volkswagen that it is not supposed to contact you except in the event it needs to update you on how to fix the impending recall on the emissions. We will update you on future progress via email.

Last edited by timmyb; 11-13-2015 at 5:50 PM.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-13-2015, 5:59 PM Reply   
More good info on whether you should join in on one of the letters you receive:
http://adequateman.deadspin.com/i-ow...tio-1741976995
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-16-2015, 2:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Diesel owners are probably the sort next-most-interested in the fuel efficiency of their vehicle after hybrid owners. It’s, you know, the main reason for buying a diesel-powered car.

How pissed off are they going to be?

And will a $500 (according to reports) “credit card” make up for it?Trees are reflected in the paint of a diesel Volkswagen Passat TDI SEL in Santa Monica

The fact that VW is offering (reportedly) money is hugely revealing. It indicates the company knows full well the “fix” is going to cost VW owners. But bet your bippie the money VW is putting on the table will be less than the money VW owners are fixin’ to lose as a result of the “fix.”
...
Not over the “cheating.” Screw Uncle. VW was only trying to help … the customer, for once. The emissions rigmarole is literally insane. It is not about “dirty” diesels. It is about making it impossible to sell the things here. The standards are that severe. To achieve compliance, the manufacturers end up with diesels that don’t get particularly spectacular mileage and which also cost a bundle of money.
http://ericpetersautos.com/2015/11/0...ooden-nickels/
Old    dylan (deelan)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-03-2015, 8:04 PM Reply   
Traded ours in last weekend. It's was dropping in value like crazy. I wasn't interested in loosing anymore $$$.
Was funny I called all the VW dealerships in my area and nobody would buy their own product back from us. They all offered me a trade for ANOTHER VW. It made me laugh.
Wife got a 2014 Lexus IS 350 instead 😁
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-04-2015, 8:55 AM Reply   
That's crazy! Their sales are down 25% so I can see why they want to get you into another VW. I wouldn't mind a Touareg for a hefty discount and fair value for my Passat(3 months ago value)!
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-06-2015, 12:24 PM Reply   
Don't understand why anyone would want to sell a car they were happy with at purchase and for significant time afterward. VW sold a better product in terms of MPG and performance than the government allowed. The customer was not cheated out of anything. Just don't bring your car to a VW dealership, where it'll undoubtedly be de-tuned per government decree, and you get to keep the MPG and performance you paid for. These are still new cars that should have plenty of life left in them.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-06-2015, 2:43 PM Reply   
I'm sure the CA smog check system will flag these cars, so CA owners will have no choice on the fix once their cars come due for inspection.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-06-2015, 2:45 PM Reply   
My gas powered 11 Jetta has taken a large hit on resale as well, I'm guessing the whole VW brand is getting no love.

Wish they would send me some relief on a gift card too.....
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-16-2015, 6:05 PM Reply   
Got my "Goodwill Package" in the mail. They threw some nice legal jargon in the Visa Cardholder agreement:
http://vwgoodwillpackage.com/Volkswa...-Agreement.PDF
Quote:
11. WAIVER OF RIGHT TO TRIAL BY JURY
YOU AND WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE RIGHT TO TRIAL BY JURY IS A
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT BUT MAY BE WAIVED IN CERTAIN
CIRCUMSTANCES. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, YOU AND WE
KNOWINGLY AND VOLUNTARILY WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO TRIAL BY JURY IN THE
EVENT OF LITIGATION ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS AGREEMENT.
THIS JURY TRIAL WAIVER SHALL NOT AFFECT OR BE INTERPRETED AS
MODIFYING IN ANY FASHION THE DISPUTE CLAUSE SET FORTH IN THE
FOLLOWING SECTION, IF APPLICABLE, WHICH CONTAINS ITS OWN
SEPARATE JURY TRIAL WAIVER.
IN THE EVENT OF ANY DISPUTE OR CLAIM RELATING IN ANY WAY TO THIS
AGREEMENT, CUSTOMER AGREES THAT SUCH DISPUTE SHALL BE
RESOLVED BY BINDING ARBITRATION WITH THE AMERICAN ARBITRATION
ASSOCIATION, UTILIZING THE RULES OF PROCEDURE OF SUCH
ARBITRATION SERVICE, FURTHER, ANY SUCH ARBITRATION SHALL TAKE
PLACE IN SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA AND THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF
SOUTH DAKOTA SHALL APPLY. THE DECISION OF AN ARBITRATOR WILL BE
FINAL AND SUBECT TO ENFORCEMENT IN A COURT OF COMPETENT
JURISDICTION
At first I was thinking that meant that if you use the card you waive your right to sue VW. When reading the document as a whole, this is a cardholder agreement and these terms apply to the card, not the automobile so I interpret that to mean that I can't sue the card company or VW for issues relating to the use of the card but I am not an attorney. I haven't seen any legal updates since they have issued these cards.

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