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Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-31-2011, 9:58 AM Reply   
So after about 25 showings, talking to the bank, looking at my finances, and another few weeks of 2 hours a day in a car, I think I've found the one I would be willing to make an offer on.

Here is the info on the home, here is my offer logic - -- do those in real estate have any opinion and care to comment - good or bad.

House itself:
Classic older style home - Brick for the foundation and first floor - new siding on top floor
3 bedrooms - Master is large, other two are average in size ---1.5 baths
Kitchen is dated but a good size
Nice Living room that flows to a nice Dining room
Full basement partially finished - foundation looks in great shape, all mechanicals have updates (electrical/furnace/plumbing/etc)
Roof, windows, and siding redone.

-- Here is where my offer logic comes into play --
Originally listed 05/05/2010 @ 140k
Price dropped on 5/29 to 131k
Price dropped on 9/12 to 119k
Home removed from MLS for 3 months (maybe updates/windows ect ect)
Relisted 10/3/2010 for 119k
Price drops 8/2/2011 to 115k

... They've been on (and off) the market for almost 545 days now. They have dropped the price 25k and still haven't moved it.

The assessment on the home is at 81.5k ( I assume they haven't had another assessment since the updates - but I don't care for offer sake)

Homes in the area are selling, on average, 3% below assessments - so am I bad **** crazy to offer 80k on the place? My dad says the golden rule of offers (offer would you would expect if YOU were selling the house) is out the window these days. He just had two places close by where I currently live for the following
Asking 256k -- sold @ 180k
Asking 349k -- sold @ 240k

115k wouldn't pay, 100k I would think about, 80k I would certainly pay. Worst they can do is say no right?!

Any insight would be great - thanks!
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-31-2011, 10:05 AM Reply   
Everyone loves photos - here is the house:


lady loved plants - dining room

Living - entry - stairs (awesome old staircase - nice and wide for moving)

from front sunroom to living to dining to back 4-season

front sunroom

3/4 seasons room

1 of the average bedrooms (not master)

Living

The kitchen that has to go
Old    Sean M (magic)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-31-2011, 10:10 AM Reply   
Looks like the seller is chasing the market down.

Do you know what they owe on the house? Could they afford to sell it at 80 or 90K? They might be upside down that low and need to pay the bank the difference or do a short sale. I've chased a few houses that where short sales, after 100+ days I gave up on them.

I'd put in your offer, make sure you can walk from it at any time and see what they come back with. You know they are likely to counter.

Heck, if I could pick up a house like that for under $100K around here, I'd be all over it.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-31-2011, 10:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
I'd put in your offer, make sure you can walk from it at any time and see what they come back with. You know they are likely to counter.
Thats what I was thinking - offer with 48 hours to respond (with some conditions - certain things not to code at the momeny) - let the listing agent know I have 3 other properties I will be putting offers in on and hope that fuels things. I'm okay with walking away from it and waiting... I would be willing to bet there would be at least 1/2 counters until we agreed but heck maybe they're just sick and tired of having it... I know they just had to deal with an insurance claim (tree fell on neighbors house and the roots messed up the driveway .... so hopefully little headaches like that are enough to push them to a quick and dirty sale.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-31-2011, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Do you know what they owe on the house?
Is that "public knowledge" that I could look up?
Old    SamIngram            08-31-2011, 10:24 AM Reply   
The assessment rate in Wood County is based on the statutory rate and does not accurately reflect the value of the house or property.

If the house has been on the market that long and with no more price reductions then that is probably their drop dead price; either their loan payoff or the minimum amount that they want...

Yes, go to the Woods County Website and enter the parcel ID number...

http://www.co.wood.wi.us/Departments...chTaxBill.aspx
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-31-2011, 10:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
the house has been on the market that long and with no more price reductions
There was a reduction less than a month ago
from above:
Quote:
Price drops 8/2/2011 to 115k

Last edited by sidekicknicholas; 08-31-2011 at 10:28 AM. Reason: edit: saw you changed you post - I was lost
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       08-31-2011, 12:39 PM Reply   
Put in the offer and see what happens. Real Estate is a funny thing and you never know what might happen.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-31-2011, 1:15 PM Reply   
I doubt they will take 80K for the house. It appears to be a lot of home. Would you sell it for 80K? Never hurts to put in an offer though.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-31-2011, 3:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
doubt they will take 80K for the house. It appears to be a lot of home. Would you sell it for 80K?
No I wouldn't... but that is given my situation. Its so hard to tell if/what they owe, their health, their plans, etc etc etc and I'm hoping that 1.5 years of sitting for sale and a ****ty market with winter approaching might be the push they need to agree to a lowball
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-31-2011, 5:14 PM Reply   
Theres alot of bottom dewellers in this market. Im sure they have had a similar offer in the past. If it's been on the market that long, it is likely a seller sicking to an unrealistic price.

Do it, maybe to bait them for a nice counter and meet in the middle.
Old     (Thrall)      Join Date: Oct 2010       08-31-2011, 5:17 PM Reply   
Couple things.
First, yes your realtor can findout what they owe, or atleast what all the loans were taken against the house and it's pretty easy to deduce where they stand debt wise. You can also find out how far behind they are in their payments. Caution, you WILL GET PISSED OFF when you see how some poeple are working the system while us honest folks are paying for our houses!
Second, since you have time on your side (ie: you don't "have" to buy a house next week or even next month), you can chase short sales. The upside of a short sale is more ss houses will be in good shape, becuase even though the owners owe more than it's worth or may not be making some/all of their payments, alot of them keep their houses up and maintained, because if they can actually get the mediator and the bank to agree, they get out from under the loan, typically with some forgiveness.
The down side, is that it is not a quick process, takes months I presume. I waited on one for 3 weeks this summer and moved on becuase I "had" to buy a house right away.
The other upside, is you can put in an offer on more than one short sale, and you can also rescind your offer essentially at will. (Let a realtor explain it to you, but you have alot of weasel words in your favor to rescind your offer and you basically can't get stuck with 2 houses and risk losing earnest money unless your realtor is a dipchit.)
This allows you to chase the "screaming deals" without fear that you are going to lose earnest money and in the mean time, you can offer and negotiate on one "normal" sale at a time.

Another reason they may not be dropping their price is that they are not making payments and are essentially living there for free. They can get away with this for years before the bank forces them to short sale and/or eventually forecloses. This means it's not in their advantage to sell the house right now if they can reasonably expect to live there for free for some period of time.
You may hit up someone who knows they are going to lose it soon (don't ask me how you know becasue I send the bank $ every month, they don't send me foreclosure notices?) and will finally be ready to deal on their price to avoid a short sale OR to do a short sale and avoid foreclosure.
Tell your realtor you want all the financial info on every house you are interested in, BEFORE even going and looking at it. If he can't or won't get you that info, find a new realtor that knows what they are doing.
Not worth your time to go look at a house until you know if and how much the owners are effed up financially.
The house hunting game has changed from "Which house do I like best that is in my price range and how much will the homeowners negotiate on the price?"
to "What is the financial status of the home and the homeowners? How upside down are they? How far behind in payments are they? How close is it to short sale or foreclosure? What is the absolute lowest price I can get away with paying for this house and will I be dealing with the homeowners, their bank, a mediator, both, or HUD?"

For example, the house we just bought in June was a "normal" sale, but the owner was a broker who bought it in forclosure and flipped it. The previous owners, who had built the home and lived in it for 10 years were $80k behind in payments when they were foreclosed on and they owed about $250k more than it sold for on the courthouse steps and $150k more than we paid for it. Based on their debt, they hadn't made a payment in over 3 years before getting the boot! (Also owned 2 other homes when they got foreclosed on. EDIT: And a 36x40' custom shop built to store their $200,000 diesel pusher motor home!)
Another house, a short sale, in IMMACULATE condition was only steps away from the house above's condition financially. 6year old house, orig owners, financed 100% of the purchase price, took out 2 more equity loans as the value rose over the next 3 years, stopped paying on it.
This year, they were $65k behind on payments, again, 2-3yrs not making payments, basically hadn't made a payment since the day after they took out the 2nd equity loan. Owed $200k more than they were asking and "accepted" an offer from us for $100k less than asking price ($300k less than what they owed). They had no authority to "accept" the offer, all they did was say "yes" and turn it over to their lender and mediator. These folks knew they were getting near the end of their free ride. Hell, the husband even quit claimed the house to his wife right before they stopped paying on it (all info your realtor can get, public records) so it woldn't eff up his credit.
In the mean time, they own 1 vacation lake home and have purchased another permanent residence lake home, all while not paying on the one they are living in!!
All I can say is the market is so effed up from all teh dumb@sses who believed they could afford a $250k house on a $50k salary or a $600k house on a $100k salary, jsut becuse the bank would give them the loan......and then, the poeple who have been playing the Obama gubment cheese mortgage mod programs.....and then, the people like above who are now playing their banks and sticking the banks with their bad decisions after using the easy loans to their dishonest advantage.

Sorry about the threadjack! hahaha, don't pay more than $70k for the house if the fair market value is $80k.

Last edited by Thrall; 08-31-2011 at 5:20 PM.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-31-2011, 9:22 PM Reply   
get an appraiser and get your own appraisal...then you will know what it's "worth" now.


also in the story above the husband can quit claim off title but he can't quit claim off the loan...his credit is toast.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-01-2011, 6:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Do it, maybe to bait them for a nice counter and meet in the middle.
Thats what I'm thinking.... at 115k I would have to think long and hard about it, at 80k I would do it in a second, between there comes some fancy offer writting footwork and getting some internal things done before I close.

There is a home inspection from 6 months ago - very well done and the guy I've been working with said the Inspector is well known and very good.... is 6 months new enough to base decisions off of, or should I ask for another?
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-01-2011, 6:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bftskir View Post
get an appraiser and get your own appraisal...then you will know what it's "worth" now.
+1. $300-$400 expense but as absolute no brainer.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-01-2011, 7:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bftskir
get an appraiser and get your own appraisal...then you will know what it's "worth" now.

+1. $300-$400 expense but as absolute no brainer.
If I do this and it comes back much higher than I expected - could that set me back?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-01-2011, 8:55 AM Reply   
No. If you order the appraisal, its for your eyes only. Keep in mind if you do purchase it, the lender won't be able to use it, and you will pay for another.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       09-01-2011, 9:12 AM Reply   
IMO independent appraising is worthless, unless you dont' have or want to waste a few hours of your time. You can do the work yourself. You seem to have a good handle on the market up there. If you know any local realtors...ask them to pull the comps for sales in the area.The only apprasial that matters is the bank.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-07-2011, 8:41 AM Reply   
So the house above that I really like has one tiny speed-bump.... the sellers put someone in it to rent it for 9-months... because of that my mortgage would change because it has an active lease and would be an "income property" --- stupid. I'm not going to dick around with that so its either wait 9-months and hope it hasn't sold or move on.... which brings me to the following:

I found a house that is CHEEAAAP (probably for good reason) but anyways, it looks like it fits the bill of what I'm looking for:
close to the campus - 2 car garage - inside has charm/character (outside NEEDS a paintjob - puke green - or siding) but for the price these all seem like easy fixes. I will be looking at the home today and assuming plumbing/electrical/roof/furnance/water heater/ etc etc are in okay shape this might be an option EXCEPT - it is listed as a HUD home. How do these work? On the listing it says:
Property is HUD owned. Sold "As Is" without repairs or warranties. Only HUD approved Brokers/Agents are allowed to show properties. Broker must have approved NAID #. All Brokers/Agents must sign in at the property on the sign-up sheet posted within the property.

How exactly does that affect me as a buyer?

Here is the HUD home info -- Asking is 65k -- STUPID CHEAP
4bed 1.5 bath - Wood flors - Forced Air heat - natural gas (water heater too)
2200 ft^2 - 2 car detached garage - huge kitchen (needs appliances)
.... assuming the mechanicals are good, this might be a pretty good deal.



Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-07-2011, 10:17 AM Reply   
Looks big! It being a HUD home doesn't really effect you. It could take longer to close and there may be a few more hoops to jump through, but shouldn't be a big deal. Being sold as is, just means if you find problems on the inspection, they will not fix them. It will be up to you to check EVERYTHING out before closing to see if you want to move forward.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-07-2011, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Being sold as is, just means if you find problems on the inspection, they will not fix them
I can still write an offer that can be broken if something major is found though (e.i mold) correct? The guy I've been using has an inspector that is very good, so I assume he can/would catch anything that would be a major deal-breaker
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 11:58 AM Reply   
Holy crap houses are cheap where you live. I just bought my first place last year. I got a 600 sqft, one bedroom, one bath condo for 170k and I thought I got a pretty good deal. It is no doubt worht closer to 150 right now but the price difference from where my place is to where your looking is insane. Those houses look nice. I am not sure you can go very wrong getting something that cheap.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-07-2011, 1:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Holy crap houses are cheap where you live.
Its great! I figured I would move back in with mom after graduating.... save for a 2/3 years just for a down payment.... now I save for 2/3 years I'll pay for it cash.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-08-2011, 7:08 AM Reply   
It depends on how the house is listed. Usually you can write an offer subject to a satisfactory inspection, or you have it inspected before you write the offer. Talk to the realtor who has it listed. Always write offers subject to financing. Sometimes the bank can be your friend

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