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Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-15-2011, 9:12 PM Reply   
I took a quick video of my hull vibrating...thought I'd share
Old    wake_addict (radikal)      Join Date: Feb 2004       08-15-2011, 9:15 PM Reply   
ishhhhh me id be scared as hell, i can see spider cracks comming miles away ..... maybe i am wrong and it cant affect anything but seeing a hull bounce like that scare me to be honest, at least you might be able to knock a trout out !
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-15-2011, 9:16 PM Reply   
Holy crap!! Makes your hull look like jello man, wonder if that will do anything negative in the long run?
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-15-2011, 9:17 PM Reply   
LOL @ knocking a trout out!!!!
Old    Todd (badhabit)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-15-2011, 9:38 PM Reply   
Note to self.....never buy a used boat with more subs than seating capacity.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-15-2011, 9:41 PM Reply   
Ok Before I tell you what I really think is going on why don't you tell us what this boat has in it for a system.
How many sub's and how much power?
Old    Shawn (skuhleman)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-16-2011, 6:55 AM Reply   
Well Im thinkin you have a couple high powered 12's facing directly at the side with no venting?
Come on, whats with the infinity amp?
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-16-2011, 6:58 AM Reply   
hahaha "Alright, let's get some flex."
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-16-2011, 7:23 AM Reply   
looks like it's affecting the camera.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-16-2011, 7:33 AM Reply   
Advantage boats never made a bass boat. This is a "powerboat".http://www.advantageboats.com/gallery.cfm
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-16-2011, 8:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Ok Before I tell you what I really think is going on why don't you tell us what this boat has in it for a system.
How many sub's and how much power?
Hey Grant, what do you mean by "really think is going on?" I value your opinion and have learned a lot from reading your threads in boat and non-wake over the years. I hope you don't think I'm attempting to make it appear to be more than it is. It really is loud. I turned it up in my garage one time which was a mistake...I had miscellaneous cans on the shelves in the garage fall off, my phone fell off the boat and shattered, and I had wine bottles on a rack in the living room above my garage and 2 of them ratteled out. I am concerned about the hull shaking, however, I don't have it turned up full blast often as you can't set a drink anywhere on the boat and expect it to stay there.

I didn't know much about subs going into this install, so I studied and researced as much as I could. I made sure I understood what each T/S parameter meant as well. Essentially, I wanted the most bang for my buck/budget...but got more than I bargained for....I honestly didn't think it'd be as loud as it is.

4 things I wanted for the sub; Efficiency-get loud as possible on available power, SQ and SPL blend-a lot of output while still sounding good, Smaller ported enclosure-doesn't require a huge box to go ported, RMS rating-Can handle 2000w RMS or more.

(8) Exile SX65's on Xi800.4

(1) 15" Sundown Z v.2 with v.3 soft parts Dual 2 ohm on Exile X2400.1 wired at 1ohm

The box is 3.25^ft after all displacement and tuned at 35hz, internally braced and epoxy resin'd

(2) Trojan 6v (315ah)

0 gauge Stinger HPM power and ground wire running 3ft from battery directly to X2400.1

8 gauge Stinger HPM wire running from amp to sub.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-16-2011, 8:37 AM Reply   
The sound pressure from a solid built 15" sub in a good box with 2k+ watts going to it is almost downright frightening sometimes.

Not as scary as that hull flex though, do you have the sub firing into the hull?
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-16-2011, 8:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skuhleman View Post
Well Im thinkin you have a couple high powered 12's facing directly at the side with no venting?
Come on, whats with the infinity amp?
Where did you see an Infinity amp? If I did have an Infinity amp, would that be bad? I always liked Infinity's products.

High powered 12's? Do you mean 12" subs that can handle high power before reaching their limits thermally or mechanically? The amp provides the power...and since you thought I had an Infinity amp and knocked Infinity products surely it wouldn't be capable of providing high power.

No venting? Did you mean vented? You're referencing a ported or sealed enclosures correct? A sealed enclosure offers better sound quality, but doesn't offer as much output as a ported enclosure.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-16-2011, 8:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
The sound pressure from a solid built 15" sub in a good box with 2k+ watts going to it is almost downright frightening sometimes.

Not as scary as that hull flex though, do you have the sub firing into the hull?
Agree.


Yeah...the sub and port are firing at the hull, about 1ft away. I designed it this way after everyone here on WW said to fire the sub at the hull. Do you think sound deadner would help?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-16-2011, 8:48 AM Reply   
Ben: What I first thought was WOW that is a abnormal amount of FLEX. As we all know not all boats are built equal. Some boats are MUCH MUCH thicker than others I have worked on some boats that are as much as 3 times the thickness as other boats in the same area.

Depending on the height of the gunnel and the distance of the span between the floor and the top deck and the thickness of the boat all have a effect on the flex.
IMO the flex is a result of power your pushing and the strength of your Hull. More so the strength of your hull. I have never worked on a Advantage so I have no Idea the strength or thickness of your hull. I know you can push alot of air and make alot of bass with a 15.

So what I was really thinking was with that much flex Your boat is gonna be Junk in no time. I would think about supporting that wall or moving the sub box in a diffrent location or doing somthing diffrent. If your hull is moving that much your gonna have problems. Because that is some Serious Movement!
example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU7whSGNTyA
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-16-2011, 8:52 AM Reply   
I personally think you should fire it into the cabin myself. A 15" sub fired towards the hull with that much power is asking for trouble IMO. I've got an exile big 15 getting pummeled by an exile xi2500.1 and wouldn't even consider firing it towards the hull, I would be afraid of what could happen.
Old    Davis (Texan)      Join Date: May 2011       08-16-2011, 8:54 AM Reply   
Sound is one thing... when your $5-$10k or whatever sound system starts to steal life and resale from your $50k boat.... you've hit the wall of diminishing returns.
Old    Brian Deegan (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-16-2011, 8:56 AM Reply   
Wow....I think when it starts to damage your hull you might wanna consider a little more moderation
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-16-2011, 9:10 AM Reply   
It is an advantage which is an offshore or performance boat. My guess is it is built with a light layup compared to a wakeboard boat as well as having a fair amount of hull side like grant is mentioning. That combined with a 15 powered correctly facing directly into the hull side.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-16-2011, 10:01 AM Reply   
Davis, I have $700 invested in the sub/amp/box setup, but I get your point and agree.


Ok...well I didn't put much thought into the vibration affecting the structural integrity of the hull. I certainly don't want that to happen.

In the video I had the sub/amp going full tilt. I definitely don't run it that loud for long as it's a bit uncomfortable...it actaually affects your vision during low bass lines, kind of bizarre.

So these are my options:

-Put a couple layers of sound deadner on the hull. Would this help?

-Have sub and port firing out into open air. I would have to make a new box if I did this, and I've always heard you want the low frequencies from the sub to bounce off of something.

-Reposition the box and have sub and port firing at the floor. The floor is wood, not fiberglass. Although, I'm not sure if the sub can be inverted...I'll have to find out.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-16-2011, 10:09 AM Reply   
Sound deadening material will do nothing for your hull flex. I don't think you need the loading effect with a 15" ported sub like you do with a 10" or 12", I'd fire it into the open cabin. It will sound like crap if you down fire the port into the floor.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-16-2011, 10:20 AM Reply   
NuBu, is your big 15 sealed or ported? I'll certainly consider it, but I'll probably need more input and motivation to do it since I really don't want to make another box. Why do you think firing at the floor would sound bad? Do you think it would still sound bad even if it was elevated 6-10" off the floor?
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-16-2011, 10:32 AM Reply   
I'm playing around with both, had the ported box in there 3.5 cu ft after displacements. Now have a sealed box 2.25 cu ft after displacments to see what I like better. I'm going back to the ported box.

I'm not sure it would sound good firing a port towards the floor like that, try it and find out. Sometimes (especially in boats) you have to try things to see what works best.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-16-2011, 11:22 AM Reply   
Make it outta steel and rivet it together!
Old    Cole K (SkySki)      Join Date: Feb 2010       08-16-2011, 12:06 PM Reply   
In the video I had the sub/amp going full tilt. I definitely don't run it that loud for long as it's a bit uncomfortable...it actaually affects your vision during low bass lines, kind of bizarre.


I remember when I had a few subs in my hatchback in high-school. The bass was so loud that it would put me and my friends to sleep as we were driving down the road. I always felt that it was vibrating my eyelids so much that it put me to sleep. Good times, good times.
Old    Shawn (skuhleman)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-16-2011, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendow View Post
Where did you see an Infinity amp? If I did have an Infinity amp, would that be bad? I always liked Infinity's products.

High powered 12's? Do you mean 12" subs that can handle high power before reaching their limits thermally or mechanically? The amp provides the power...and since you thought I had an Infinity amp and knocked Infinity products surely it wouldn't be capable of providing high power.

No venting? Did you mean vented? You're referencing a ported or sealed enclosures correct? A sealed enclosure offers better sound quality, but doesn't offer as much output as a ported enclosure.
Wow! Someone is a little jumpy! I apologize, I was mistaken on the amp. I had no intention of knocking infinity, I was just curious as to why. Please dont try to be all "Mr. Technical" when your the retard who aimed a 2000w rms sub at the wall of your crappy ass boat! Had you actually thought that out you might have realized that could be a bad idea! But pound away until your boat falls apart.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-16-2011, 12:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skuhleman View Post
your the retard
The irony is impossible to ignore.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-16-2011, 4:23 PM Reply   
LOL

Advantage aren't exactly crap, I had a buddy that had a party cat of theres. We're talking about a $100,000 party barge, granted it would do 70+
Old    Dave H (masterDraft)      Join Date: Jan 2011       08-16-2011, 4:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
The irony is impossible to ignore.
very funny
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-16-2011, 5:10 PM Reply   
I think when I first saw the video ithoght the boat was flexing a whole lot more than it was. At one point it looks like the Video image is distorting making the boat look like it's flexing more than it is Big D pointed it out.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-16-2011, 5:30 PM Reply   
I've seen a JL Audio 10W7 in a ported enclosure eventually peel the grahics off the exterior hull of a Supra.
I would agree that a ported 15" doesn't need the extra leverage of reinforced loading off the hull like a 10" does.
Downfiring will perform identically to sidefiring if the woofer and port are spaced off the sole by the exact dimension as they are spaced away from the hull. But that type of distance and space just isn't doable within those confines. There's really no point in changing.
The woofer and enclosure that are capable of that type of force on the hull may be resonating with a dominant peak because its an SPL type alignment coincidental with a low crossover point similar to what you would use in an enclosed vehicle. I'm wondering if a few adjustments won't yield more perceived output with less stress on the hull. And I'm sure you couldn't tolerate a steady diet of playing it to that extreme...or maybe you can.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       08-16-2011, 10:16 PM Reply   
Holding a handgun gangster style is pretty cool, but the video being sideways drives me nuts.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-17-2011, 6:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Advantage aren't exactly crap, I had a buddy that had a party cat of theres. We're talking about a $100,000 party barge, granted it would do 70+
Haha...my uncle told me when they were at Lake Havasu years ago and they had seen one of those Advantage Party Cats. Him and his friends were making fun of the racing style paint job on a party barge. Once my uncle and friends got out of the no wake zone they were doing around 50mph. A few minutes later that party barge blew past them...lol

Advantage does make good boats, and I like mine. It wasn't necessarily something I was looking for, but I just happened to stumble upon a millionaire who was more concerned about making room for his new boat than he was about how much money he sold this one for. It's fun going fast, and I can't really wakeboard anymore anyway...

I only made this thread to share what I learned with others and show that you don't need to spend excessive amounts of money to get a lot of bass output....
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-17-2011, 6:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by talltigeguy View Post
Holding a handgun gangster style is pretty cool, but the video being sideways drives me nuts.
It drove me nuts too. I spent 20 minutes on my laptop making it right side up, only to find out youtube flipped it back to sideways.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-17-2011, 6:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I think when I first saw the video ithoght the boat was flexing a whole lot more than it was. At one point it looks like the Video image is distorting making the boat look like it's flexing more than it is Big D pointed it out.
So Grant, did your opinion change? Do you still think I should do something different?
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-17-2011, 6:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e_m View Post
I'm wondering if a few adjustments won't yield more perceived output with less stress on the hull. And I'm sure you couldn't tolerate a steady diet of playing it to that extreme...or maybe you can.
David, what design changes are you suggesting?
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-17-2011, 7:13 AM Reply   
"your crappy ass boat"

Get out much? Or do you just lock yourself in the garage and stare at your wakeboat?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-17-2011, 8:24 AM Reply   
Ben: I think you did the video just to show some movement and you don't run your system like that all the time so I don't think your boat is flexing 1/2 as much as it was in the video under normal conditions, so I would say just try to Vent as much as you can get that pressure out. How about some more pic's or video to show us whats going on. It was hard to understand where the sub was mounted and what was going on. All the video show is the hull flexing If I knew more I could give you a better Idea
Old    Baitkiller (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       08-17-2011, 11:07 AM Reply   
Curious, does it move that much when actual music is played?
Old    Tommy Boy (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-17-2011, 4:41 PM Reply   
Has anyone suggested just tuning out some of the bass through the amp or turning it down...?
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-29-2011, 6:26 AM Reply   
Ok...here's another video. Sorry for my poor camera skills. This is playing music as I regularly would. I don't think it's too bad...

Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-29-2011, 11:12 AM Reply   
Ben that 15 is shaking or moving some fiberglass.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-29-2011, 4:08 PM Reply   
Why don't you just have it fire forward? It's gotta be plenty loud even without the loading.
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       08-29-2011, 5:19 PM Reply   
Ben - trust me on this. Relocate to forward firing. you'll thank me long term. -Brian
Old     (UNvisible)      Join Date: May 2010       08-29-2011, 6:28 PM Reply   
you got a ws420 ? we'll be on lake austin on saturday...
Old    Benjamin Oates (Bolo)      Join Date: May 2011       08-29-2011, 8:52 PM Reply   
That's still bad.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-30-2011, 5:52 AM Reply   
Brian/Grant/NuBu/Hate, et al....I hear you loud and clear. The reason I haven't simply repositioned the box is because it won't fit under the console in the vertical position. So it looks like I'll have to build another box. I'm kind of annoyed about that, carpentry/fiberglass/saw dust aren't my favorite things. I designed it to fire against the hull because I've seen Earmark say to fire against the hull quite a bit, and I thought the sub needed something to load off of.

Brian, off topic but I met a guy named Robert on the lake last weekend. He was with his family (wife and young kids) so I helped him tie his boat off to the shore. He ended up busting out the grill and feeding my friends and I...really cool of him. His boat was loaded down with Exile gear, and he said he knew you. Anyway, he mentioned having a tailgating truck with Exile tower speakers, 2 Big 18's, etc...do you have any pics of that truck? Curious what it looks like.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-30-2011, 6:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNvisible View Post
you got a ws420 ? we'll be on lake austin on saturday...
We'll be out there this weekend as well. Unfortunately I don't have a WS420. I do have RCA outputs on both of my amps, though. Not sure if I could take an input or give an output, but if there's an easy solution to that I'll prewire some RCA's.

My good friend Brittany, AKA DJ Catwalk, will be out on the boat with us. She plays a lot of good dubstep mixes, etc, so I'm just going to let her be in charge of the music on my boat. She lives in Austin and is regularly DJ'ing at the clubs, maybe you've seen her out before
Old    Brian (factorykitted)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-30-2011, 10:36 AM Reply   
rilla fart
Old     (UNvisible)      Join Date: May 2010       08-30-2011, 10:46 AM Reply   
all i play is deadmau5
Old     (UNvisible)      Join Date: May 2010       08-30-2011, 10:53 AM Reply   

Last edited by UNvisible; 08-30-2011 at 10:56 AM.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-30-2011, 11:56 AM Reply   
I couldn't make sense of either of your posts except (deadmau5)
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-30-2011, 12:23 PM Reply   
I'd slap that little niglet into next week.

Grant said something in another thread about "stupid people breeding".... Well there you go.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2011, 3:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Anyway, he mentioned having a tailgating truck with Exile tower speakers, 2 Big 18's, etc...do you have any pics of that truck? Curious what it looks like.
Brians posted pictures of that before, I think it is a Toyota.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-30-2011, 3:39 PM Reply   
Follow this link http://www.exilecaraudio.com/gallery/?gallery=CarAudio you'll see it there.

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