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Old    Schuey (schuey)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-05-2011, 11:38 AM Reply   
I always thought there was quite a lot of basic inverts in wakeboarding (ie inverts without spins or grabs, or landing blind or switch etc). But now I'm getting confused over what is what and how many there actually are.

I thought there are two types of inverts, a roll and a flip. And that each of these inverts could be done back or front, and TS or HS which would make 8 inverts. Is this correct? If so where does a tantrum fall into this.

And what exactly is the difference between a flip and a roll? When looking at tricks such as a HS backroll and a tantrum (which I'm thinking is essentially a HS backflip) to me it looks like the equivalent front versions are the wrong way round ie when I watch a HS frontroll it looks more like the action from a tantrum reversed to be rolled front even though I know its labelled as a front roll it looks more like a frontflip to me, and the frontflip then looks more like the movement of a backroll put into a front version. I'm probably rattling on sounding really confusing here so if anyone does understand thanks and well done!
Old    Brian Deegan (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-05-2011, 11:52 AM Reply   
Heel backroll, Tantrum, Frontflip, Raley mexican backroll (frontroll)
Toe Backroll, frontroll raley frontflip (rare)

So.....9?....Haven't heard of a toe backflip

Its really whoever lands the trick first names it though. I'd say a backroll was named so because it more of a rolling motion to throw the trick, and the tantrum probably comes from needing a trip flip edge, so whoever landed it probably got pissed and just macked in when they landed it. I'm just speculating here though.
Old    Jake Stich (richmondrider)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-05-2011, 12:01 PM Reply   
TS and HS are edging terms. These are the way you approach the wake, whether you approach on your toe side edge or your heal side edge. Front side and back side are spinning term. This describes the way you spin when doing a 180, 360, 540 and so on. Back side is when your back is towards the boat when doing the first 180 of the rotation, and fontside you will be facing the boat during the first part of your rotation.
Hopefully that makes sense...i'll let someone else tackle the front flip verses roll.
Old    Jake Stich (richmondrider)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-05-2011, 12:05 PM Reply   
the Tantrum was named because the motion when doing the trick is like a baby throwing its head back in a tantrum...hence the name. The parents out there will understand that one.
Old    Orion (chillinoj)      Join Date: May 2009       08-05-2011, 12:24 PM Reply   
Seems like you know all the basic inverts. The naming convention of flip vs roll just comes from the history of each particular trick. Learnwake.com has a pretty good history of where the name came for each trick if you wanna check it out.

http://www.learnwake.com/library/inverts/base-inverts/
Old    Schuey (schuey)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-05-2011, 12:32 PM Reply   
Right, I am actually a member of learnwake.com and I know what all the terms HS, TS, BS, FS etc mean. I've just never really got to grips with inverts. Haven't tried them yet, but would like to start understanding and recognising them.

From my research on learnwake, looking at the trick clips section I've come to the conclusion that there are 5 basic inverts.

1. Tantrum (essentially a backflip)
2. HS Backroll
3. HS Frontflip
4. TS Backroll
5. TS Frontroll

Which has brought up some more questions for me, firstly. Even watching these, I don't understand what exactly the physics of a flip vs a roll are. When looking at a HS backroll and a TS backroll, these don't look like a mirror image of each other to me. It seems you are inverting yourself in opposite ways in a tantrum and a HS backroll yet both of these are 'back' inverts.

And why do HS backflips and TS flips not exist?
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-05-2011, 1:05 PM Reply   
a roll is when your rotating tip/tail or vice versa, a "flip" is when your rotating edge/edge of the board. a HS "backflip" does exist, its called a tantrum, as far as TS "front flip" that's basically a TS front roll. Don't get caught up too much in the names. just have fun and learn em all ! watch detention, they do a good job of showing you the difference in all of these.
Old    Brian Deegan (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       08-05-2011, 1:05 PM Reply   
Not counting raleys as inverts and counting mexi rolls and legit rolls as the same trick there are 6.

HS backflips do exist. They're called tantrums. Toeside frontflips do too but they're really rare. There was a book out a couple years ago called wake physics with Kovak, parks, dallas and a few others and its in there.

With the toe backroll its arguably the same board rotation as a heel backroll. Its just harder to grasp. Instead of going heelside over toeside in the rotation for a toe back you're meant to load the line like a heel backroll and go nose over tail, but since we don't twist that way, it kinda becomes a hybrid depending on whose doing the trick, going nindy area over tailfish area. I say this because if you can imagine edging in toeside and trying to throw a true backflip (like a tantrum) with both feet leaving the water at the same time, its damn near impossible. On toe backs you lead with your front hip (as opposed to your anatomical midline). Likewise for a toeside backflip, its impossible to edge in toeside and almost do a heelside backroll movement, which would result in a toe backflip.

You could say that base inverts are made up of HS and TS tricks going back and forth either tail-to-nose flips and heelside edge-to-toesdie edge, which would give (8-1 for the toeside kerfuffle) 7 :
- HS tail-to-nose; backroll and frontflip
-HS Heel edge-to-Toe edge; tantrum and mexi roll
-TS tail-to-nose; Front flip
-TS heel edge-to-toe edge; Frontroll.........and toe back either here or the one above.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-05-2011, 2:39 PM Reply   
I like to shy away from using the term "Basic" inverts. They are Base inverts.

A lot of riders great frustrated because they hear the term basic, and automatically assume all these tricks should be easy to attain. There's a big difference when you can say that you've worked hard to get a good 'base', as opposed to landing something 'basic.'

Sorry about the tangent, I know it's a nit.

Last edited by stoked_32; 08-05-2011 at 2:42 PM.

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