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Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-27-2011, 9:08 PM Reply   
I just learned toe off 5s and landed a handful in the last couple weeks. However this morning I didn't get kicked into rotation like normal and face planted the BuJeezuz out of one. Anyways, after spending hours asking the same questions over and over again; with countless hours in the ER, I'm seriously considering not riding again.

I've had 4 serious concussions in the last 4 years, not counting some really hard edge catches that have left me dazed for a few hours. But how many, is too many?

The people I ride with that know me best would probably tell you I would never quit riding, but after the lick I took today I'm seriously worried about permanent damage. I'm not sure if it's worth it.

http://vimeo.com/26991066

(it's ok to laugh)

How many is too many?
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-27-2011, 9:28 PM Reply   
Damn man.... that looked painful.

1 is too many to be honest, but whether you hang it up or not is up to you. A concussion is one stop short of a bleed in the brain which is 9 times out of 10 going to lead to having to have burr holes drilled in your skull to relieve pressure from the bleed. Your brain does swell with a concussion, that we know.
There is not a lot of extensive data out there on concussions and long term effects because there has never been a well populated study done on it.

Keep riding if you want, maybe snatch up some lessons to tighten up your game or grab a helmet?
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-27-2011, 10:01 PM Reply   
that wreck was absolutely no bueno
Old    Alek Emery (acerock88)      Join Date: May 2008       07-27-2011, 10:50 PM Reply   
Have you talked to a neurologist? I think asking a medical professional is a good idea.
Old    Ryan Cowan (aces6692)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-27-2011, 11:11 PM Reply   
It looked soo much worse on the boat!!! You starting to remember anything yet? hope you're doin alright man... that being said its still kind of hard to to laugh while watching the video haha, You can see your board go flying into the air!
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-27-2011, 11:11 PM Reply   
Rich told me about this crash, and after seeing the video it's pretty gnarly. The more concussions you have under your belt, the easier they are going to come around the next knock.

But that doesn't mean you need to quit riding, progressing maybe, but quitting is a pretty strong statement. Take a month off, heal up and see how you feel.

The one thing I don't agree on is that had you been wearing a helmet you would have not suffered an injury. The last thing you needed on that crash was more surface area to ultimately decelerate your head. Had you been slamming your noodle off of a slider, then yes a helmet would've helped; but the injury that resulted from that type of crash likely wouldn't have been prevented from wearing a helmet (odds are the severity of injury would've been increased).

Don't take the concussions lightly, but don't go overboard and quit doing something that you enjoy doing fully.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-27-2011, 11:47 PM Reply   
could maybe just take it easy. try doing more surface tricks maybe and carving around and such, lower impact but still fun and creative.

kinda like this...

http://www.youtube.com/user/zuckyfm#p/u/34/PfP7dawT6G8
http://www.youtube.com/user/zuckyfm#p/u/39/kuW6Ap60Z0I

... although some of this kinda stuff can set you up for some crazy edge catches too ;P




maybe try dedicating yourself to riding only switch (if you have not already) to both tone yourself down, but eventually make you stronger
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-28-2011, 7:18 AM Reply   
Thanks for the heads up Jeremy, I would probably recommend the same for someone else. I spent the first 1.5 years doing surface stuff, but I guess I could go back and make my blind riding and switch toeside better. But I guess thats not really the point. Eventually I'm going to heal up and forget about my concussions and start hitting the wake again.

But the words "not progress," & "take it easy," don't really apply in the world of wakeboarding. Maybe for a short period of time, but over a longer duration it's inevitable that you're gonna take a hit again. I think that's part of what makes it so much fun!

You can't see white, unless you can see black as well.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-28-2011, 7:33 AM Reply   
Hey Ryan, Thanks for taking my car back. There's like a 10 hour window in my life from yesterday thats been wiped clean. I doubt I'll ever get it back. Although I do remember some discussions regarding your future career advancements and also giving Rich a big hug cause I hadn't seen him in a while. But that was all way before we even put the boat on the water.

I'm headed in for a MRI today. All my extremities feel like pins and needles, which leads me to believe I slipped another disc or something else related to my spine.
Old    Chris (crosenhahn)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2011, 7:56 AM Reply   
Man that was definitely No Bueno!!!
Personally I have had 3 wakeboard concussions (either blacked out or cant remember what happened) prior to not wearing a helmet. Have not had a concussion while wearing a helmet (blacking out, memory loss) but on bad diggers it still will ring my bell a little. I am assuming from having numerous concussions throughout my life...I tried 'remembering' and counting them the other day with a buddy of mine and I got up to about 9 total...Not good when I look back. Most are skiing and skating related.
John - I know how you feel about thinking about hanging it up, as I this year have thought about it twice. I have decided to slow things down a bit and work more on some of the FUNdamentals and tricks I have dialed in and just enjoy riding. Although my face/jaw/ear are sore from a digger I took last nigh on a 360 I hesitated on. All the best to you man and hope the MRI comes up clean and the tingle/pins feeling leaves you soon!
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-28-2011, 8:00 AM Reply   
I have been riding 15 years and have never really had a concussion. About 13 years ago, I fell learning whirly-birds right on my face. I knocked myself out and peeled the back of my eyelid where flap was hanging down blocking my vision. I went to the emergency room with blood coming out of my eye, seeing stars and feeling sick. The doctor said I may have a "Minor Concussion".

Another story. A professional waterski jumper friend of mine had two confirmed concussions in a year. He was told by his doctor (after a CAT Scan) that he shouldn't even ride down a bumpy road for a year or it could easily kill him.

Concussions are serious, but rarer than you think. Bell ringers and concussions are two different things. If you have really had a concussion, go see a doctor immediately.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-28-2011, 8:21 AM Reply   
I've had two and that was too many. Not doctor confirmed but short black-out, not knowing what day it is or time of day after, out of it and queasy feeling after for a day - that's enough for me. Can't be good for you and don't want any more of that. Like Chris above, I wear a helmet now (2 years) and haven't had one since. But, I'm also not hucking it like I used to. Still progressing but more carefully. Still wouldn't give it up because I enjoy being out on the water so much and behind the boat.
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       07-28-2011, 8:35 AM Reply   
Concussions are a big deal, luckily they are starting to get a lot of publicity and research is being conducted mainly around college/NFL football players.

Here's a link to one such science journal linking multiple concussions with decreased neuropsychological function.

http://www.impacttest.com/ArticlesPa...rsJAMA1999.pdf

My last run of the season last summer landed me in the ER on a very similar crash under rotating a HS backroll. That was my 3rd medically diagnosed concussion and am seriously considering sticking with my bag of tricks and not trying more inverts....

Last edited by wakeboardertj; 07-28-2011 at 8:38 AM.
Old    Chris (crosenhahn)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2011, 8:49 AM Reply   
I have only had 2 "diagnosed" concussions both by ski patrol. The others were varying degree from being sick and throwing up to just headaches. I definitely agree that there is a huge difference between a concussion and bell ringer. All that I know for me personally helmets have helped me in all my sporting adventures.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-28-2011, 9:28 AM Reply   
Had a very bad crash on a railey that left me in the hospital for a few days last year. I was unconcious and friends had to pull me aboard and do CPR. The railey was going bad so I took it to 180 (but took it to more like 270, to heel edge hook and KO. Been using a helmet this year and won't go back. A lot of people said it was worse for the neck but after taking a few good falls this year, I totally disagree. I believe when I got KO'd, it wasn't from the impact of my head hitting the water but rather from the extreme whiplash and my head snapping back so hard and fast. A helmet slows that down significantly when you hit the water.

Ask anyone who rode without a helmet and then started using one. They RARELY go back to not wearing a helmet. I know I won't.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-28-2011, 9:37 AM Reply   
Anyone who says a helmet doesn't help consussions is ****ing stupid.. "Bigger surface area"..

Dumb..

Put a lid on.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-28-2011, 9:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
Had a very bad crash on a railey that left me in the hospital for a few days last year. I was unconcious and friends had to pull me aboard and do CPR. The railey was going bad so I took it to 180 (but took it to more like 270, to heel edge hook and KO. Been using a helmet this year and won't go back. A lot of people said it was worse for the neck but after taking a few good falls this year, I totally disagree. I believe when I got KO'd, it wasn't from the impact of my head hitting the water but rather from the extreme whiplash and my head snapping back so hard and fast. A helmet slows that down significantly when you hit the water.

Ask anyone who rode without a helmet and then started using one. They RARELY go back to not wearing a helmet. I know I won't.
Hope you were wearing a CGA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Anyone who says a helmet doesn't help consussions is ****ing stupid.. "Bigger surface area"..

Dumb..

Put a lid on.
Agreed, also most of these helmets have holes in them to minimize the surface area when it hits the water
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-28-2011, 9:46 AM Reply   
I'm sure its different for each crash. Concussion number 2 for me was a cable raley where I was wearing a helmet. I've caught an edge on a raley after that and the impact was much less (no helmet).

Levi, its encouraging that you got back on the board after going through that. Was it ever a question that you wouldn't ride again?
Old    R{west Side Ryder} W (rmotoxxx711)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-28-2011, 9:52 AM Reply   
A concussion is from the wiplash due to impact of the head aka the neck takes the fall for impact to the front of the head thats why the jarring motion of a hit to the jaw fighting is sure fire for lights out which is basically what you did but prob worse.

I have personally had 5 concussions all of which have been between wake moto and snow. 3 from wake tho. Fortunately for me they have spread over 4 to 5 yrs. If you get even a "mild" one your supposed to take off minimum a month off to recover from any hardcore activity.

A very sad example is a norcal local pro rider from where I am from named Ryan Shreeves. He was doing whirlies and came down flat (which has consumed one of mine as well) getting a concussion. And supposedly he had another hard one within a few days resulting "2nd impact syndrome" and sadly passed away from the incident. He was a well admired fire fighter and rider
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-28-2011, 10:35 AM Reply   
^ There's motivation for taking it seriously right there.
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-28-2011, 1:17 PM Reply   
I was ... not skeptical but ... curious about Ryan Hyperlite's memory of Ryan Shreeves. A Google search will confirm something awful happened to a rider who's service drew 1,000 to 1,500. Sad, very sad.

http://www.launchwakeboarding.com/company/shreve.html

Last edited by john211; 07-28-2011 at 1:18 PM. Reason: sp.
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-28-2011, 3:37 PM Reply   
I've been riding for a few years now and started wearing a helmet for the past 2 years and will never ride without one again. Here's the way I look at it. The positives we can all agree of wearing a helmet: ear protection and protection from the board (or debris) hitting you in the head during a crash. Now whether or not it helps or hurts a concussion is completely unclear. I'll take 2 positives and an unknown while wearing a helmet over just an unknown and thinking I look cooler without a helmet anyday. I've taken numerous edge catches and backslaps learning raleys and new tricks and I've only walked away with seeing a few stars for a minute.

Here's prevention that a lot of people overlook:

#1 When learning new tricks, SLOW THE BOAT DOWN and shorten the rope. Taking hard falls is a lot easier at 19-20mph then 24-25.

#2 HAVE A GOOD BOAT DRIVER!!! Your driver should have cut the throttle on you in mid air because from takeoff you could see you weren't going to pull that one off.

#3 Let go of the DAMN handle and ball up! You had it in your hand until your face slapped the water!

#4 (and this is just a personal preference that works for me) Ride with your uppers loose. You would have ejected most likely and saved yourself the concussion. (Don't flame me for this one because we all know everyone has their own opinion about possibly coming out with just one foot and the reprocussions)

With all that said I wish you a speedy recovery and hope everything comes out OK.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-28-2011, 4:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Anyone who says a helmet doesn't help consussions is ****ing stupid.. "Bigger surface area"..

Dumb..

Put a lid on.
Don't be so sure. Have you tried it? I bought a helmet after getting a concussion and it really didn't help at all impact wise. It's still useful for cable riding or on days like today when I have an ear infection and I'm grateful for the earflaps. I'm not saying don't wear a helmet, but don't think that wearing one will necessarily prevent future concussions or even reduce the risk of them.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-28-2011, 5:15 PM Reply   
ryan,
#1 When I first started learning OA tricks, I slowed it down to learn how to get the board out behind me; but since I had landed a few of these I was trying to get them consistent, therefore w2w.

#2 Depends on the trick. Anytime you have the board out behind you, you probably don't want to have the driver bump the throttle otherwise you get stuck in that position. I'm not blaming the driver on this one, or ever really.

#3 I tried to get the board back underneath me and you see my pull the handle hard left and back. In hindsight, I probably should've ditched the trick immediately. Also, consider, I was trying to land the trick first & foremost, so I had even less time in the air to recognize that I was screwed & think through all that. Wish I could remember. In this case, you're right, I probably should've just thrown the handle, balled up, and turned sideways into the water .

#4 You're right, personal preference. I ride with them cinched all the way tight. You should see my boots. I absolutely obliterated the inside liners.

I never got one that I landed on video, but heres an attempt probably a day or so before I landed my first. (just to save face, no pun intended )
http://vimeo.com/26624370

Gawd, I love wakeboarding...
Old    Sean (05sante)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-29-2011, 6:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanw209 View Post
#2 HAVE A GOOD BOAT DRIVER!!! Your driver should have cut the throttle on you in mid air because from takeoff you could see you weren't going to pull that one off.
Really? I've never heard that before. In the air there is no tension on the rope so I don't see how cutting the throttle should have any effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanw209 View Post
#3 Let go of the DAMN handle and ball up! You had it in your hand until your face slapped the water!
+1. When I know I'm not going to land something I let go and ball up to lessen the impact. Doing that has made my falls hurt much less.

I hope you make a fully recovery John!
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-29-2011, 6:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHebrewHammer View Post
Don't be so sure. Have you tried it? I bought a helmet after getting a concussion and it really didn't help at all impact wise. It's still useful for cable riding or on days like today when I have an ear infection and I'm grateful for the earflaps. I'm not saying don't wear a helmet, but don't think that wearing one will necessarily prevent future concussions or even reduce the risk of them.
Don't be stupid.. EVERY sport in the world that has high impact crashed and hits has helmets except for dumb people like Rugby and wakeboarding..

There is PADDING.. It PADS your head, brain, etc.. There are holes cut into the helmet that have been designed to counter act this stupid idea that wakeworld has created of "more surface area"..

If you have concussion prone - you are taking a chance with your life by not wearing a helmet.. I don't wear a helmet - but I don't take an risks on a wakeboard..

Put your god damn lid on so we don't have to lose another rider to Wakeworld Myths that helmets don't help.
Old    ScottRobinson            07-29-2011, 8:51 AM Reply   
2nd Jeff!!!
Old    Chris (crosenhahn)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-29-2011, 8:53 AM Reply   
3rd Jeff! I wear a helmet in every other "extreme" sport I do, skiing, skating, hockey (lol) and wakeboarding.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-29-2011, 8:57 AM Reply   
And Yes, I'm mad.
Attached Images
 
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-29-2011, 9:12 AM Reply   
I'd have to agree with Sinko (since he has some knowledge in this field). I don't think a helmet would've helped me really in this particular situation. If you watch the slowmo, I didnt take it to the head, I took it to the face/chin/cheek.

But I guess we could argue this forever. Honestly I don't care, I'm more curious to see similar stories where people have made comebacks from mutiple concussions. How do the pros deal with (& how many) concussions on their way to the top? (i.e. soven's recent one in a comp)

With all that being said, if I make a comeback, I'll be rocking a helmet with a lot of padding.
Old    R{west Side Ryder} W (rmotoxxx711)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-29-2011, 9:38 AM Reply   
Again the direct impact to the head isn't the direct culprit of a concussion. Its the violent whiplash and neck spin that comes as a direct effect from head impact. Example: why can you dive off a 20ft rock head first no hands and be fine no concussion? But at the same time we SHOULD all be wearing helmets because it does provide another layer to your dome piece softening impact nonmatter how we look at that. Helmets do work and do help a lot just not in a whiplash scenario of protecting the neck from such stuff from happening
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-29-2011, 10:05 AM Reply   
Ouch man! That was a full on digger!

I like to think that over the years I have gotten better at the "save yourself or you are going to die" crashes. If I feel the least bit off coming off the wake I start looking for a way out. Ditching the handle is usually the best but some times holding on lets you get in a better position. Obviously things happened fast but when a toe edge looks imminent, tuck and roll!!

Don't give up riding, maybe take it a little easier. Try to grab all your tricks 3 different ways. Most importantly, don't push it after getting C-ed up.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-29-2011, 10:11 AM Reply   
Ya man, don't give up riding if it's something you really love. Concussions will accumulate damage over time, but you can minimize this damage by taking some time off and allowing your brain to heal as best it can. That's the most important thing. If you take care of your brain and minimize the damage of concussions, you'll find that your brain can handle a concussion every once in a long while. The real problem is getting concussed on a semi-regular basis.
Old    Ben_B (hyperlite4life)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-29-2011, 10:50 AM Reply   
Concussion is enough!
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-29-2011, 11:09 AM Reply   
put away the flips & spins. just focus on big grabs, and pokes. Theyre just as fun & sick, not as bad in the crash dept.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-30-2011, 12:17 AM Reply   
Man...it looks like you are riding pretty fast.... speed + edge catch = brain damage.

Set your boat up "training wake" style when learning and dialing new tricks. Now this wont work with all tricks...but it will work for all flat spins, and load and release flips like the back roll...and toeside back roll. I have also used it for OA spins that are load an release type. It will not work as well for TS trip flip stuff (TS Front roll, SCrow...etc). The TS OA 5 has a trippy take offI think...so it might not be the set up for that...but it works wonders for a lot of other tricks...

Here is what you do. Run your medium ballast set up. Start about 3-4 mph SLOWER than your normal min speed where the wake washes out. Both sides will be total mushburger. Then...put a sack on one side of the boat...move all your pop bags or people to the same side. You should be able to get ONE side to clean up...and the other will be total mush. Now...you will have to shorten your rope about 10' or more due to the low speed and wide wake. Dial the speed down to the lowest you can. Then dial the rope length...

.....and go learn stuff. So...you can work on reg HS....and SW toe. After a while...have the people in the boat move the ballast to the other side..and work on switch HS...and reg TS stuff.

For the life of me, I can not understand why once riders can ride and to the basic stuff at 23+ mph at 65'+...they always insist on riding out there and at high speed...as if their ego can not handle going back to slower speeds and shorter ropes....because 'real wakeboarders' go 23 mph at 65'+. Did you try to learn your 1st wake 2 wake jumps at that speed and length?. What is different about ANY other trick. The water is just is hard...and each day we are older than the previous.

In my view...every trick should be worked up to full speed and length from a more forgiving length and speed. Some tricks...like the raley...the TS backroll or scarecrow.....you just have to go for it. But for a lot of other tricks...give the "training wake" set up a try. I can not imagine trying to dial a HS backside 180 to blind at full length at 23 mph. I have taken that edge catch at those speeds...and it was NOT fun. I will slowly work my way up from the training wake set up...building form and skill...until I have it at full length....and speed. But by doing it this way...I will actually learn it faster and safer.


Last week I landed my first TS BS 180...and it was BIG...and near perfect. It was probably only the 10th time I had ever tried one. After doing some drills...I nailed on my 3rd attempt of that set. I was running 19 mph...with this 'training wake' set up...and the rope was probably only 45-50'. I was also landing BS180s one after the other..and holding the blind landing. It is all due to the fact that when you crash at 19 mph...you do NOT get beat down. That means when you crash...you don't get all wierded and psyched out (or get a concussion). So you can keep trying...building your form...and confidence. Then...when you get it dialed....start upping the speed...and lengthening the rope (+3' and maybe +1/2 mph at a time...whatever works for your boat)


You will actually find that the wake at low speed with this set up can be HUGE....and very fun. It is a bit soft at low speed...but you can jump very high..and get lots of hang time. Also...if you set the rope super short....you dont really edge much into the wake because the cross distance is short. You jump towards the boat almost. This keeps the line tension down for spins. Give it a try. Most of the crew I ride with have been converted to this set up. It is so much more fun to learn stuff and progress and low speed and short lengths...that it is to be stuck at the same level at higher speeds...because you can not get the repetitions on your attempts because the beatdowns are so devastating.

I just crack up when people look at us funny for riding so short...then one of my friends busts out a huge poked out BS 180 to blind...just perfect...

Just my $.02. Stay safe...

Last edited by kitewake; 07-30-2011 at 12:27 AM.
Old    Chad Grenier (hkysk8r187)      Join Date: May 2004       07-30-2011, 6:54 AM Reply   
Ok I needed to step in and say something to everyone. I ride with John, the original poster, about 2 times a week and he's a good friend of mine. He's kinda getting treated like a newbie here, which is expected because the video only shows the fall, but John is actually a really good rider who can land several variations of frontside and backside 360s and 540s, multiple inverts and will soon have a mobe if he doesn't quit riding.

I appreciate everyone telling us how to slow down and train, but we already know this and we do it all the time on new tricks. This fall was also on a trick that he can land. It was just an epic fail.

I hope you keep riding John. Take it easy for a while and let your brain heal up. Come be my driver till then lol.
Old    Loren (helix_rider)      Join Date: Mar 2003       07-30-2011, 1:27 PM Reply   
I got my first concussion in 3rd grade when a 16 year old slammed me into a concrete wall. I've had 6 in the next 25 years (2 snow, 1 biking, 3 wake). I've only been knocked out once, but all of them made me feel pretty nasty. One of them left me with a numb left arm that slowly went away over the course of 3 months...pinkie stayed numbish for even longer. I have had extensive conversations with neurologists (I even consulted a specialist in Canada involved in high risk sport concussions). His advice to me was do nothing for 1 month (including jogging, etc. that could jar my head). Then, start to slowly exercise, then in 3 months if no symptoms, ride again, starting by taking it easy. I've not had one since, but frankly, ride now just for fun...haven't tried learning anything new now, just go out for the exercise and fun on the water. At 37, the risks start to look a little too large for the thrill of getting that 'landed a new trick' high. Oh, and to the poster that said helmets always help...don't be so sure. The Canadian neurologist told me that the whiplash (As stated above) is the problem with the brain getting jarred...he told me a helmet wouldn't have helped. I've had 3 of my concussions with a helmet on...so don't put a lid on and think you are invincible.

Last edited by helix_rider; 07-30-2011 at 1:28 PM. Reason: mistake in # of years
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-30-2011, 2:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkysk8r187 View Post
He's kinda getting treated like a newbie here, which is expected because the video only shows the fall, but John is actually a really good rider who can land several variations of frontside and backside 360s and 540s, multiple inverts and will soon have a mobe if he doesn't quit riding.
Not sure who you're directing this at because I can't be bothered to read this long ass thread, but let me just say that I have MAD respect for people trying these tricks

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