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Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2011, 8:56 AM Reply   
On Sunday there were so many cops giving tickets. I had to drop my rider three times because they had their blue lights on everywere. I saw a cop pull over two guys because they blew past the pump station on vicks without stopping. These cops are such #$%holes sometimes, they just give tickets because they can.

I wanted to tell the cop on vicks that he was wrong for giving those guys tickets. I built that pump station and the specs stated the the bouys were only needed for the duration of the project if I recall. There not even legal bouys.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       07-18-2011, 9:03 AM Reply   
Those bouys dont even say 5 on them anymore. The cops should be stopping the dumbasses like the ones tubing in the drainage cut headed from indian slough towards sellers raod where the houses on the lakes are.... it was mind blowing.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2011, 9:07 AM Reply   
Pretty lame stuff. I saw them give out so many tickets for dumb stuff. I got really tired of having to slow down for them. If you ever get pulled over ask them if their legal.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-18-2011, 9:11 AM Reply   
counted 7 of them on saturday.
redic!!!
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2011, 9:39 AM Reply   
Wow 7? their were 3 in the old river. One pulled someone over then 2 were waiting to get the guy who didnt know he had to slow down.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-18-2011, 9:48 AM Reply   
yeah, seriously. Even saw one that looked like they rented/borrowed a persons boat and tied a Sherriff banner on the side of it.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2011, 9:57 AM Reply   
Haha no way! Ok I understand the delta is a dangerous place, but i think they made it even worse. It was likea traffic jam everywere.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-18-2011, 10:07 AM Reply   
im sure they got tons of people at railroads with the new 5mph zone under the 2 bridges.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-18-2011, 10:31 AM Reply   
Yesterday there were more cops on the Delta than I have ever seen in the past. There were three different agencies posted up at Ski beach. I saw sherifs from at least two counties, coast guards, and fish and game.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2011, 10:35 AM Reply   
Maybe it was a nice day to be on the water?
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-18-2011, 11:01 AM Reply   
Or they found a new revenue source....

The lame thing is that the Sheriff's use less common sense on the water than the average boater. I don't think those guys have any sort of special training. I've seen plenty of bone headed moves by them.

A ticket on Vics is lame. That's one of the biggest watersports sloughs on the delta. If everyone dropped their rider at the pumping station there would be huge traffic jams. Absolutely stupid. I'd fight that one in court, without a doubt. I don't think they have much of a leg to stand on considering the marker's don't even say 5mph anymore.
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-18-2011, 11:13 AM Reply   
Wow, on Vic's. That sucks. I ride by there all the time and never slow down. I thought those buoys were there just to keep the boat away from the pump station. Not to slow down for. I'm all for patrolling the delta to keep it safe. But please just patrol it to keep it safe. Don't screw it up.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-18-2011, 11:16 AM Reply   
Sat was insane, they were literally on every corner. Good thing it was blown out, so we dint even ride. They were tied up to my buddies dock on the 5mph zone midway down the slough leaving/entering Orwood. I wonder if they got permission to use his dock and parked next to his Yacht.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2011, 11:27 AM Reply   
Those cops have no idea what their doing out there. Yesturday I watched one pass a boat on the turns leaving vics going twords the home side (horse shoe island). But in regards to the bouys if you ever get a ticket go to Contra costa county and check to see if those are legal. I know the ones by orwood arnt, but I slow down because of the yacht and the one by railroad makes no sense.
Old    Jason Neves (jv210)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-18-2011, 11:39 AM Reply   
There sure was a lot of cops out there yesterday. It was so bad on vics at one point we just gave up and went on our way. Those buoys definitely don't say 5mph on them so I don't know how that ticket will stand.

We got pulled by the CG in a 5mph zone and were given a "SAFETY CHECK" sure it's all for a safety. lol first question was how much have you been drinking. Was told we can't have life jackets under seats or in compartments, must be easily accessible, never heard that one before.

I think the 5mph down Orwood is only applicable if there are boats on those docks. I think that house just sold so 99% of the time that yacht is going to be there, so I believe you always have to slow down now.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-18-2011, 11:43 AM Reply   
^^^yup
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-18-2011, 11:57 AM Reply   
Yeah that yacht sucks! I mean it's dope, but a pain in the ass.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-18-2011, 12:06 PM Reply   
Not on the Delta, but we got pulled over on our home lake the other day, the cops asked us if we had anything to drink (it was HOT HOT HOT).... they followed us back to my house and we got them some powerade... figured it couldn't in-case next time isn't so friendly.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-18-2011, 9:00 PM Reply   
It was a max enforcement weekend on the delta. Expect one more of those up in Sacramento County in a week or so.

Solano County, Sac County, Alameda County, Co Co and the USCG were out around Discovery Bay.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-18-2011, 9:02 PM Reply   
As far as this nonsense about life jackets being readily accessible.... I have never heard that except for this weekend. I will ask some of my contacts.
Old    Don Christman (ktm525)      Join Date: Mar 2009       07-19-2011, 6:28 AM Reply   
I was told in the Coast Guard class and also by a sheriff last year that one throw able life saving device must be accessible. I have not heard the life vest needed to be accessible.
Old    Jayson Reyes (jayson_49)      Join Date: May 2007       07-19-2011, 9:26 AM Reply   
right, a throwable safety device easily accessible by the driver. is what I was told when I got stopped. i can understand maybe if a boat capsized, people can get to the vests more quickly than if they're in a locker...remember the football players in Florida? just playing devils advocate.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-19-2011, 11:04 AM Reply   
I know that makes sense in some place, but we're talking about the delta. You could swim to shore much more quickly than you could put on a vest if your boat were to capsize.

They cops are out there for one reason: revenue.

I'm all for them keeping the Delta safe, but they needn't go overboard.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-19-2011, 11:26 AM Reply   
Evan,
I think I rolled by you back past the last bridge sunday when there was a cop with its blue lights on.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-19-2011, 12:14 PM Reply   
Could have been our boat, but I wasn't out. I'm still nursing a back injury. Hopefully be back riding by the weekend.
Old    DRA-Doug (load)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-19-2011, 12:39 PM Reply   
Ha, we got inspected Sunday. Saw them all out so doing my best to follow the rules, slowed down when passing blue light etc.

Tubing on Old River, stiop to change riders, Sheriff passes, daughter jumps in the boat takes off her vest (she is spoiled and wanted a dry "boat' vest), Sheriff turned around, daughter is putting on another vest. First they wanted to tie up, but then said they would just do a visuale, honked the horn, showed fire extinguisher, 5 adult life jackets, Throwable (had right next to me, as I'd moved it when I saw all the sheriffs out, LOL). They asked my daughter how old she was, 11, and said thanks and reminded us that the law had changed and she has to wear the vest till she is 13 vs. 12.

Then they came back and gave us a flag as ours is faded.

Actually had no alcohol on board this trip (detox from 4th of july vacation) and they didn't even ask about that.

First time I have been stopped on the water.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-19-2011, 1:54 PM Reply   
Exactly as Evan said. This is the delta. No waves at the delta. Boat isnt going to capsize. Swim in either direction and youll be walking in the shallows in a few seconds.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-19-2011, 7:49 PM Reply   
"They cops are out there for one reason: revenue."

Evan, as a former Contra Costa law enforcement officer, I can tell you it has nothing to do with generating revenue. All law enforcement officers in this county make great over time cash for court call outs, that far outweigh the fines collected. The revenue card can only be played in states/county where cops make dick, and they dont have court minimum call outs. If one officer gets called to court, it outweighs 10 tickets written.

The officers can't control how many officers are out there, only management. So an officer cant say, "screw the car, lets go boating and write some tickets to get some overtime". Someone with power, somewhere, decided to do some enforcement, whether needed or not.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       07-19-2011, 8:05 PM Reply   
Jeff, I'm pretty sure Evan means revenue for the county not the deputy. Its sad when a 70 yr old lady has to wait 29 mins for a deputy to show up when there is someone in her house trying to rob her but we have 4 boats of sheriffs giving tickets for a law that isnt even being broken. Coast guard is the only agency that can post 5 mph buoys and since they did not place those and they are not 5mph buoys that is a complete waste of our tax dollars. Your right its not the deputies that choose to go out there its their management which is the sad part. How can you have 6 deputies county wide on duty during graveyard shift but 8 plus out cruising the delta.... just my 2 cents
Old    Jayson Reyes (jayson_49)      Join Date: May 2007       07-19-2011, 8:49 PM Reply   
ok sure it's about generating revenue but I don't believe that's the only motive to be out there in full force. I work for coco county and I sustained a 6% pay cut! I don't think a few thousand dollars generated over the weekend is going to make a dent in the county's deficit.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-20-2011, 5:45 AM Reply   
I have o problem saying it is a complete waste of time and resources. But this isn't about revenue. At best, it might be a break even venture.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-20-2011, 7:01 AM Reply   
Michael that was me, Vinnie, Nate, Callen, and Jeff Freitas.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-20-2011, 9:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
Exactly as Evan said. This is the delta. No waves at the delta. Boat isnt going to capsize. Swim in either direction and youll be walking in the shallows in a few seconds.
I guess you have never had a 50 ft yacht go by you at 9 mph sending you a 4ft wave.

Lots of things can happen on the Delta. It's certainly not the ocean but in my opinion much more dangerous than any lake.... but keep telling everyone that so they stay away.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-20-2011, 10:34 AM Reply   
VLX Envy: I sure have. I've helped friends out that capsized their boat over one of those waves. You know what they did? Swam to shore..... I understand what you're saying. It makes sense to be careful out there. Having jackets out in the boat is a pretty good call, that way when the boat does go over you can grab one instead of them being locked in a compartment. That said.... When your boat goes over it does so in a hurry. The last thing you're thinking (if you can swim) is "where are my life jackets". You think "where are my friends", then swim to shore. Hopefully this never happens to anyone here.

Jeff, Jason: I've got no problem with the cops that are out there patrolling. It sounds like a lot more fun than being in a cruiser all day. That said.... Could you please elaborate on the special training these guys receive to operate in a marine environment? As far as I'm concerned it should be up to the Coast Guard to patrol the Delta. FWIW, you and I both know that there are officers out there with a chip on their shoulder. They have a tendency to flaunt their authority. Enforcing no wake zones that aren't no wake zones and safety checking boats arbitrarily demonstrates this. It does nothing, but give the Sherriff's department a bad image.

As for revenue generation..... So sad. It sucks that our public services are being cut. You have to ask yourself why. None of our taxes have been cut. Sure there are less property taxes being generated and unemployment is high, but last I checked I'm still paying the state as much as I did in the boom times. Maybe a bit of mismanagement of funds, but that's a whole other topic.
Old    Dan (texastbird)      Join Date: May 2003       07-20-2011, 5:24 PM Reply   
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-20-2011, 6:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido View Post
VLX Envy: I sure have. I've helped friends out that capsized their boat over one of those waves. You know what they did? Swam to shore..... I understand what you're saying. It makes sense to be careful out there. Having jackets out in the boat is a pretty good call, that way when the boat does go over you can grab one instead of them being locked in a compartment. That said.... When your boat goes over it does so in a hurry. The last thing you're thinking (if you can swim) is "where are my life jackets". You think "where are my friends", then swim to shore. Hopefully this never happens to anyone here.
I've had my share go by as well but I understand both points that you can swim to the shore easily. That said, they won't draft laws specifically for the delta so they will either go by the letter of the law (how is written) or the spirit (common sense).

What most people don't realize about big boats on the Delta is that they are 100% responsible for their wake/waves. If they send a huge roller and capsize a boat, its their fault (usually).
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-21-2011, 7:50 AM Reply   
Spoke with the USCG - readily accessible means it cannot be in a locked compartment. By locked compartment, it can be enclosed in a compartment but it cannot be locked. Basically you have to be able to grab the number of vests for the number of people on board in about 30 seconds.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       07-21-2011, 9:51 AM Reply   
I think as Delta guys we should all come together and write a letter to the Sheriff and Coast guard asking for help with enforcemnt in a positive way. IMO the best way to educate and patrol is to get to them as early on in the day as possible.

On Sunday of the 20 or so boats i saw coming in and out of Orwood, all but maybe 4-5 were breaking laws prior to ever reaching indian slough. Most of the people dont undestand that 5ph and no wake zones mean NO wake. Not going 4-8 mph throwing huge rollersat everything and everyone. Then sitting on the sun pads or gunwales, having 2 x as many people that are supposed to be in the boat etc etc. Why not stop them there before they can get out to do real harm to themselves or others. Being in max enforcement where 90% of the people are experianced boaters and go to Vics for the relative safety of being around mostly experianced boaters isnt a good use of time nor enforcement for saftey.

If someone cant even follow or have an idea what the laws are leaving the ramp and launch area how the hell how they going to know what to do on open water? Seeing the chinese tourists going tubing in the drainiage slough all day is what they need to stop not a guy with his kids and boards coming back in from a day of riding for safety. Those same tourists also hit full 10-15 mph once out of orwood thru all the 5's and past the awesome yacht sending rollers everywere and making the people idling thru that zone scramble to avoid bow shots.
Old    Jason Neves (jv210)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-21-2011, 10:41 AM Reply   
VLX Envy, I got pulled by the USCG and they told us the life jackets specifically couldn't be under any seats since I guess they're not accessible there. They never mentioned anything about locked compartments, just basically everywhere we had ours, under seats and in the rear compartment, weren't really accessible. They were cool but I think they go in trying to put fear in people.

Soli I agree 100% on what your saying. I could think of way better things they could be doing with their time
Old    Jason Shehan (norcalbordr)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-21-2011, 3:50 PM Reply   
Yeah its crazy how many cops we saw out there last weekend. I was out on Ryan's boat (VLX Envy) and we counted about 10 Sheriff/USCG from Disco Bay, RR, and Vics, plus floating around Ski Beach. I think its total BS that they gave a ticket on Vics for not going 5 mph near the pump station. Those buoys don't say anything about a no wake zone. I bet you could fight that one in court if you get a ticket there. We had to stop 3 or 4 times because of blue lights flashing and it was getting to be a real pain in the ass, esp when other boats would fly by because they did not know the law. I like the fact that they are out there enforcing, but hopefully they start focusing their attention on the boats who go to ski beach all day long, get trashed, and then drive back drunk and let the boats who are actually out riding and having fun do our own thing.
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-22-2011, 1:25 PM Reply   
What do people know about this weekends enforcement? 7-22-11 on the Delta. I want to ride Vic's safely and without getting a ticket for riding past the pump station.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-22-2011, 1:35 PM Reply   
fingers crossed theyre gone. Im done being in a bad mood while im on my boat.
Old    Robert Thorson (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-22-2011, 3:01 PM Reply   
We were out on Sunday as well and while I am not a supporter of random stops and inspections for minor infractions, I do believe that there is a need for an increased police presense in the Discovery Bay area.

While tied up to the dock at Union Point we saw a fight break out between two separate boats that prompted the police to be called. We took off when the fight broke out, but we were passed by 6 or 7 sherrif boats heading toward Union Point as we were headed toward Orwood.

When we arrived at Orwood, the boat ramp was backed up because apparently there had been a fight between two guys who had an argument on the ramp. When we finally got off the water one guy was laid out flat on the ground with police, fire, and ambulance personnel surrounding him.

I realize that most of us are adults and can supervise and control ourselves, but certain areas where individuals hang out and party in the Discovery Bay area need to be monitored more closely.

Many of us are out on the water with our families and the last thing that I want is for any harm to come to my wife or kids as a result of another boater's negligence.

Some may argue that it is "Big Brother" watching over us or looking for a way to increase local revenue, but the fact remains that if we are mature enough to police ourselves, then there wouldn't be a need for "Big Brother" to step in.

I realize that these were isolated incidents, but it only take a few incidents like these to cast a negative light on all wakeboarders riding in this part of the delta.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-22-2011, 3:57 PM Reply   
A Sherrif boat anchored at Ski beach all day, and security guard or 2 at Union point & a squad car at the launch at Orwood should suffice.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-22-2011, 7:50 PM Reply   
I was told there will only be one more max enforcement weekends and it would be in the sacramento area. That does not mean there won't be any more operation dry water weekends but those are public. You can view those on the website.
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       07-25-2011, 2:04 PM Reply   
I was out near Vic's both Saturday and Sunday. I saw zero law enforcement boats.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-25-2011, 4:56 PM Reply   
Just so I know...what time in the a.m. did they get out to Vics by?

If you are at your favorite spot at the crack of dawn...you can get two solid sets in before the po po is even done with his donuts...

I have not ridden Vics since April...and it looks like it may stay that way till Sept/Oct....

You would think that with all the screwed up things going on...Law Enforcement could make better use of their resources....

If it is about the money...they should park just inside the main Disco Bay entrances. NO ONE seems to know what No-Wake means anymore. Everyone is going like 6-8 mph....

Last edited by kitewake; 07-25-2011 at 4:58 PM.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-25-2011, 5:05 PM Reply   
One more thing...the Owner of that pump station is Contra Costa Water District (CCWD).

http://www.ccwater.com/

Perhaps we could write a letter to the Engineering Manager or General Manager etc...asking if they have requested the area be a no wake zone? I am pretty sure they have not...and I know quite a bit about that station... I used to work for the mfg that made those 3000 HP pump. I spent many weeks out at that jobsite during construction and start-up. It was definitely a 5 mph during construction. The buoys at that time were marked... I even have some pics....ahem...

If you know anyone who got a ticket at that location...I say we check the law...and perhaps talk to CCWD. Take the documents, and supporting correspondence from CCWD to court...and make the officer eat it. I still have the project specs.... Most LEOs dont want to get sucked into court appearance...lots of paperwork...

Last edited by kitewake; 07-25-2011 at 5:13 PM.
Old    Richard Coop (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-25-2011, 8:00 PM Reply   
There are lots of government grants out there and counties being broke are going for all they can get. Just so happens there are a few that if you patrol watter ways or spend a certain amount of man hours patroling/enforcing rules and regs you can qualify for the grants. The county I live in does this exact thing, one of my friends is a sheriff and signs up for the water patrols when they have them. They take the approach of educating rather than ticketing (avoiding court costs). Hes told me several times the last thing he wants to do is piss someone off while in the middle of the lake. Arresting someone on a boat and risking a fight that could end up in the water does not sound fun.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       08-01-2011, 11:47 PM Reply   
I have been boating on those waterways for over 40 years. I have taught waterskiing/wakeboarding in multiple states/countries around the world. I used to ski professionally at Marine World, skied competitively for 20 years... blah blah blah

In the past 5 years I have seen the level of professionalism among the Sheriffs go down, way down. Many of them cannot dock even a boat, many of them don't know what is truly a hazard and what is not. They will ignore an offshore rig blowing through a busy intersection with wakeboarders and kids on tubes and ticket somebody for idling up to a dock with somebody sitting on the front edge of a motor pad. They pulled me over and gave me a bad time right after a guy took off right in front of me almost swamping my boat. I had to turn and gas my boat so the waves didn't flood my bow. They pulled me over and asked why I cut in front of them. I asked if they saw that guy take off on my side of the river throwing a roller in my direction. Then they told me my CF numbers didn't have adequate contrast against my boat, I asked if the cop was serious. They thought I was copping an attitude. The things they focus on are not even illegal in most states and not even remotely dangerous in most cases. Look at the statistics. Injuries and deaths are usually the result of speed and alcohol (most commonly together). The biggest offenders are the jet skis, offshore boats, fishing boats, and tubers. Wakeboarders and waterskiers are barely even on the list. Even then they are usually a victim of one of the earlier mentioned. There are some statistics posted at various places on the net. I wish they would do some research and target the offenders, not the victims.

Sorry folks, the water cops these days are a failure of the system, just my opinion. It has not always been this way but these days I have been very very disappointed by the officers on our waterways.

Last edited by mikeski; 08-01-2011 at 11:51 PM.

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