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Old    eric schaefer (ess3489)      Join Date: May 2009       07-11-2011, 11:27 AM Reply   
im installing a pair of fusion tower speakers they are 200 rms each.

here is the specs for the kicker amp im just curious if this amp bridged will push those tower speakers fairly well. eventually ill get a better amp for the tower and use this as a 4 channel amp to push my in boat speakers

specs: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...r-ZX350.4.html

60x4 at 4 ohms
90x4 at 2 ohms
175x2 bridged
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-11-2011, 11:38 AM Reply   
I used a cousin of this amp (zx700.5, which is a 350.4 plus a 400.1 grafted together in a single chassis. I ran the amp bridged to a single pair of Bullet Hollowpoints. It worked, but I've since gone to an ARC KS300.2 for not a lot more money, and the difference in headroom and sound quality is amazing.
Old    eric schaefer (ess3489)      Join Date: May 2009       07-11-2011, 4:42 PM Reply   
wil this amp likely over heat after an hour or so of use? im in texas where it has been constantly 100 outside and running at 2 ohms will be making the amp run hot. any chance it wil over heat and cut on and off? is it better to find an amp i can run 175 watts in 4 ohms so its cooler?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-11-2011, 4:57 PM Reply   
yes and yes. If you run that amp wfo for an hour in 100 degree heat it'll burn your hand it will be so hot. At least that was my experience.
Old    eric schaefer (ess3489)      Join Date: May 2009       07-11-2011, 5:07 PM Reply   
so find an amp that i can run around 175-200rms at 4 ohms? suggestions im looking for a used one locally on craigslist so any suggestions that i can look for will help
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-12-2011, 9:10 AM Reply   
Quick soapbox post. Some long time posters have heard it before.

I want to try to make a point to discourage the purchase of 4 channel amplifiers solely for the puropse of bridging the 4-channel amplifer to run a stereo load.

For many situations, there is a proper stereo amplifer that will deliver the same amount of power while operating at a comfortable 4-ohm load per channel, with the cool, (or cooler) operating temperatures and lower current draw that result from the use of a stereo amplifer.

For the OP's question regarding the ZX350.4, I would turn around and recommend a ZX450.2 or ZXM450.2.

The reasons are two-fold. First off, MOST 4-ohm speakers are nominally 4-ohms, but in fact, their impedance can be quite a bit lower for certain frequencies. 3.4 - 3.6 ohms is often the norm. This will cause a bridged amp to see less than 4-ohms per side for some frequencies. This in turn shows each amp channel less than 2-ohms; the minimum safe load it was designed to operate into.

Secondly Bridging an amp, or running a stereo amp at a nominal 2-ohm load take the amp to its max-current max heat operating condition. If I can draw an analogy, it is kind of like running a car or boat motor right at redline all the time. It is hot, it stresses things, and leads to things breaking soon. Sure you can bridge an amp, but why? Why take it right to the edge of its capabilities?

These two things, (lower than 4-ohm speaker impedance and trying to not run an amp right to its ragged edge) are the reasoning for my recommendation MOST OF THE TIME to use a proper higher-powered amplifier that will deliver the spekaers desired rated power at 4-ohms.


There are exceptions, so to play both sides, let me quickly explain. The Kicker KM6500.2 and KM6500 tower speakers were designed from the beginning to address the first point aove. Specifically, the KM6500.2 is a true 4-ohm system that does NOT dip below 4-ohms. As such, it can be used on a bridged amp, knowing FOR SURE that the amp always sees 4-ohms and only 4-ohms, regardless of frequency. Each amp channel only sees 2-ohms and never less. ... As a result I will recommend the bridging of a 4-channel amp where higher power is needed. Such and example would allow the ZX350.4 to bve used without fear, as the OP asked, or one could go with teh IX500.4, which I currently recommend as the hot ticket for that speaker setup.

Back to the topic. For most "nominally" 4-ohm speakers, if you KNOW you are going to be running a pair of stereo speakers, and you need to buy an amp, try to buy a STEREO amp to run them. Use an amp that will deliver rated power to the speakers, while showing the amp a 4-ohm load. The sound will usually be better, the heat will be lower, the current will be less. and the amp will run longer before thermalling.



Finally, to clarify or add to what Shawndoggy is saying. Many Class A/B amps run hot. It is their nature. The amp in question as well asa other Kicker amps run hot too, but they have a thermal protection system in them to prevent overheating. If it is hot, but it is running , it is fine. When it starts shutting off is when you know you are too hot, not by being hot itself... You can maximize your cooling for the amp by doing a few things:
Always mount it on standoffs so that it is not against carpet. This gets air all arond it and helps shed the heat.
Use the recommended wire gage. HIgh current running, (most ot our tower speakers) will create voltage sag, which inturn will increase current flow in the amp. Low voltage actually makes the amp run hotter.
Get some air moving. Convection works wonders if you can have some way to allow the air in your amp compartment to change out. Fans will help, but many times, takign the opther steps first will eliminate the need for fans. they are cool to see in an install though, so cinsider it anyway.

Hope my soapbox discussio is helpful...

Thanks
Phil
Kicker
Old    Justin (jrw160)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-12-2011, 9:14 AM Reply   
I have it running a set of pro80s and haven't had any trouble out of it.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-12-2011, 9:30 AM Reply   
Justin-

I think Tim puts a little more thought into his crossovers than some, so you may have a setup that works out well for your application with the Pro80's. The crossover, (or the lack of a full crossover for many speakers) is usually the major contributor to a 4-ohm speaker being lessd than 4-ohms. If you have had no problems, you should be golden

Phil
Kicker
Old    eric schaefer (ess3489)      Join Date: May 2009       07-12-2011, 9:16 PM Reply   
the km450.2 is only 150rms will that power the 200 rms speakers? or do i need something at 200rms?
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-13-2011, 8:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ess3489 View Post
the km450.2 is only 150rms will that power the 200 rms speakers? or do i need something at 200rms?
You don't NEED a 200 WRMS amp to run your speakers but it is nice to power them with at least rated power, if not a little more. The ZXM450.2 will actually deliver basically the same power as a bridged 350.4. We are talking 25 watts theoretical, and you will not hear that difference. Real world measurement wil likely show the 450.2 as equal, while being able to operate more comfortably due to its 4-ohm operation.

While Kicker does not currently have a stereo amp that big, you can find several of the older Kicker amps on the used market. a ZX550.2 will deliver 205 a side at 4-ohms. A ZX850.2 will deliver 295 a side at 4-ohms.

There will be other amps from other brands out there as well with higher power delivery into 4-ohms. My point in my long post above is to try to break that nasty habit of thinking you always have to bridge a 4-channel amp to get the power you need. There is usually a better solution with a two-channel amp.

Phil
Kicker
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-13-2011, 10:17 AM Reply   
I am running the IX500.4 bridged per Phil's recommendation on a pair of Pro 60's and couldn't be happier! The amp runs a lot cooler than my zx700.5 that is running the rest of the system and the output is phenomenal on the Pro 60's. You can pick up last years IX500.4 for a pretty good price from this authorized kicker dealer: http://www.audiosavings.com/products...10IX500.4.aspx
Old    eric schaefer (ess3489)      Join Date: May 2009       07-13-2011, 8:09 PM Reply   
buddy of mine has an infinity amp, read some specs on the amp and sounds decent. obviously not the best but its free so i was wondering if it would work? it says 200 watts rms at 4 ohms so it would meet the 200rms each speaker needs. here are the specs:

4 Ohm Stereo: 200W x 2 RMS
4 Ohm Stereo: 400W x 2 MAX
2 Ohm Stereo: 300W x 2 RMS
2 Ohm Stereo: 600W x 2 MAX
4 Ohm BL: 600W x 1 RMS
4 Ohm BL: 1200W x 1 MAX
T.H.D. @ 4 Ohms Rated Power: 0.05%
Frequency Response(+0 -3db): 20Hz - 20kHz
signal-to-Noise Ratio: >95db
Channel Seperation: >50db
Damping Factor: >200
Simut. Stero/mono: Yes
Aux Output: Yes
Variable Electric Crossover: Yes
Aux Output Variable Electronic Crossover Yes
Dynamic Bass Optimizer Circuit: Yes
Dimensions (H x W x D): 2-3/16 x 19-1/2 x 8-1/2" 56 x 483 x 203mm
Line-Level Sensitivity: 250mv-9v
Operating Range:10-16 VDC


will this amp work fairly good at pushing those fusion tower speakers? maybe next summer i can buy a better amp but will this work and sound decent for the remaining summer
__________________
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-14-2011, 7:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ess3489 View Post
buddy of mine has an infinity amp, read some specs on the amp and sounds decent. obviously not the best but its free so i was wondering if it would work? it says 200 watts rms at 4 ohms so it would meet the 200rms each speaker needs. here are the specs:

4 Ohm Stereo: 200W x 2 RMS
4 Ohm Stereo: 400W x 2 MAX
2 Ohm Stereo: 300W x 2 RMS
2 Ohm Stereo: 600W x 2 MAX
4 Ohm BL: 600W x 1 RMS
4 Ohm BL: 1200W x 1 MAX
T.H.D. @ 4 Ohms Rated Power: 0.05%
Frequency Response(+0 -3db): 20Hz - 20kHz
signal-to-Noise Ratio: >95db
Channel Seperation: >50db
Damping Factor: >200
Simut. Stero/mono: Yes
Aux Output: Yes
Variable Electric Crossover: Yes
Aux Output Variable Electronic Crossover Yes
Dynamic Bass Optimizer Circuit: Yes
Dimensions (H x W x D): 2-3/16 x 19-1/2 x 8-1/2" 56 x 483 x 203mm
Line-Level Sensitivity: 250mv-9v
Operating Range:10-16 VDC


will this amp work fairly good at pushing those fusion tower speakers? maybe next summer i can buy a better amp but will this work and sound decent for the remaining summer
__________________
From a pure specs standpoint, yes, that amp will be a better choice. I would look to others opinions as far as sound quality and reliability go, as I am not familiar with that amp, but power-wise, it should hopefully be a good choice. The price is right for sure....

It might sound funny coming from the Kicker guy telling you not to us the 4-channel Kicker amp, but I would rather steer you right with regards to driving your speakers properly by connecting them to a proper amp for the application. That is the kind of integrity Mr. Irby, Kicker's owner exhibits every day, and I want to try to be the same guy integrity-wise. Maybe I can talk you into a Kicker amp next year!

Good luck getting your system hooked up and holler if you have any questions.

Phil
Kicker
Old    Preston Price (Preston)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-14-2011, 12:32 PM Reply   
Phil, I just picked up a pair of used Pro 80's for a great deal and been loking for a good amp that won't break the bank. Would the Kicker IX500.4 that timmyb mentioned be a good fit? I also like the idea of having a class D/H/G amp for the efficiency. I would also like to put the recomended 200 watts to each speaker as well.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-15-2011, 10:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston View Post
Phil, I just picked up a pair of used Pro 80's for a great deal and been loking for a good amp that won't break the bank. Would the Kicker IX500.4 that timmyb mentioned be a good fit? I also like the idea of having a class D/H/G amp for the efficiency. I would also like to put the recomended 200 watts to each speaker as well.
I know of another using this setup and he is not having issues. I know TIm does put more thought into his crossovers than some manufacturers, (the crossover is often the part that can cause the low impedance problem) and I have to guess from the success elsewhere that the impedance presented by bridging does not take the amp into protection.

I think you should be golden; I say go for it

Phil
Kicker

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