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Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-09-2011, 4:21 PM Reply   
I am looking to switch from our MC to a SAN. I think both are great boats, but I am tired of the 4 hour drive to the closest MC dealer and we have a CC dealer on our lake.

We have a X-star now and I ride behind a 205V and X-25 regularly. So these are the wakes I am used to. I have not ridden behind any SAN except a 216 (it might have been a 226?). I did not like the wake of that boat, but I know it is not one of the premier wake boats.

While I will of course test drive and ride behind one, I wanted to get opinions of folks on WW who have ridden MCs and SANs.

1. How is the wake steepness on newer 210s? I know the old ones were steep like the MC 205V. I prefer the wake of the X-25 which is somewhere between the really rampy wake of my X-star and the curb thrown by the 205V (original X-star).

2. How picky is the wake in the 210/230? I have read that the 230 can be difficult to keep clean weighted. How about the 210? I do not need that big of a boat so I was leaning toward the 210.

3. How much ballast is required to get a decent wake? I know this is subjective. My X-star has a great wake, but really likes 2500+ ballast. The X-25 throughs a mean wake at 1500lbs ballast. What about the 210/230?

4. What engine would you recommend for running moderately weighted in a 210/230? Looking for the balance between the ability to handle the ballast and fuel efficiency.

Sorry for all the questions but I wanted to get the thoughts of experienced SAN owners/riders before demoing.

Thanks
Old    CONSIGLIEREG8R (consigliereg8r)      Join Date: Aug 2009       07-09-2011, 4:46 PM Reply   
i have a 220 San and have some friends who are pro riders and they have an xtar. They really have the x weighted and wake is really clean. My wake is more rampy according to them. My view is it is steeper but not as clean.
Old     (BorderBoarder)      Join Date: Jul 2011       07-09-2011, 5:43 PM Reply   
Vision,
I might be wrong, but the new 210 wake has been described as a bigger/fuller version of the original x-star/205. Most say the 210 is easy to dial in and can get a very rideable wake with around 1500#, of course this doesn't satisfy must around here..

I did the same research as you 6 months ago, but between a 210 and vlx. Ended up with a Bu, but who knows what will be next. You might ask some questions over at planetnautique.com, or look up my post comparing the new vs. old 210's. I think you have to join to see them but there are some good wake pics members posted for me in that thread.

Hope this helps.
Old    Tdc_worm C (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-09-2011, 7:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobenglish View Post
I am looking to switch from our MC to a SAN. I think both are great boats, but I am tired of the 4 hour drive to the closest MC dealer and we have a CC dealer on our lake.

We have a X-star now and I ride behind a 205V and X-25 regularly. So these are the wakes I am used to. I have not ridden behind any SAN except a 216 (it might have been a 226?). I did not like the wake of that boat, but I know it is not one of the premier wake boats.

While I will of course test drive and ride behind one, I wanted to get opinions of folks on WW who have ridden MCs and SANs.

1. How is the wake steepness on newer 210s? I know the old ones were steep like the MC 205V. I prefer the wake of the X-25 which is somewhere between the really rampy wake of my X-star and the curb thrown by the 205V (original X-star).

2. How picky is the wake in the 210/230? I have read that the 230 can be difficult to keep clean weighted. How about the 210? I do not need that big of a boat so I was leaning toward the 210.

3. How much ballast is required to get a decent wake? I know this is subjective. My X-star has a great wake, but really likes 2500+ ballast. The X-25 throughs a mean wake at 1500lbs ballast. What about the 210/230?

4. What engine would you recommend for running moderately weighted in a 210/230? Looking for the balance between the ability to handle the ballast and fuel efficiency.

Sorry for all the questions but I wanted to get the thoughts of experienced SAN owners/riders before demoing.

Thanks
1. of the newer "super airs" the steepest (in my experience) is the 220, followed by the 230/236, and lastly the 210. my favorite wake shape of all time is the 205v (and its Xstar, X2, X1 derivations). the CC 230/236 has the same shape but is wider...a good thing in my opinion.

2. finnicky wakes. having owned a 220 and a 230 and spent some time on a new 210, here are my thoughts. the 220 and 230/236 can throw a foam ripply down the lip (think 2" ripple) that can mind fukc the rider. it has ZERO affect on wake shape or release. likewise, the opposite or landing wake can wash with an aggressive rider...again having ZERO affect on landing. the 220 is the most sensitive by far, but is overcome easily w/ the seating configuratoins (as are the 230 and 210). i did not experience any sensitivity in the 210. as for sensitivity when weighted, my 220 liked about 1600 over and no more. my 230 keeps gobbling up weight and gets better. havent fully slammed a 210.

3. how much weight? the 220 and the 230 produce a great wake out of the box...keep adding til they get how big you want them. the 210, in my opinion is reminiscent of the old VLX without the wedge before you start adding weight....tooo rampy and not a great lip.

4. the torque curves of the Excal and the ZRwhatever are essentially the same. get the small engine and reprop it for weight. anecdotal experience tells me that they both suck about the same amount of fuel and you wont get your $4k back on resell when you depart w the ZRwhatever.

here's how it would sort the three:

best value: 220. it had a short run and wasnt well received due to the interior, and hence can be found used for cheap. ironically, it (in my opinion) has the best laid out, most functional interior of any tow boat ever if you can get over the fact that it doesnt look like what you are used to...easy access trash can, storage, and warming tray are genius.. the wake shape is closest to the legacy 210 as you will come without trough. surfwake is the easiest to build out there. does not like to run under about 21.5, so if rookies or wakeskaters are common on your boat, there are better options.

best overall: 236/230. strangely, less roomy interior than 220 (has a bigger bow, but shorter main cabin). wake is killer stock and only gets better with more weight. will run a little slower than the 220 but is wider, so w2w skaters have a tough time clearing. surfwake is awesome...not as steep or easy to build as the 220 but has a longer pocket.
Old    Bevan (stxr_racer)      Join Date: Jun 2006       07-09-2011, 7:31 PM Reply   
Both great boat brands for sure! Here's a couple wake pics behind our 210, factory ballast + 5 peeps. The wake both sides is very clean, consistent and really easy to shape. Not as steep or sensitive to side to side weighting as the old 210 and is rampier and more predictable, but still has great pop! Also, the more weight you add the wake just gets bigger while still maintaining it's same basic shape. Have the 343hp engine and loaded up it does struggle a little to get on plane, i'm sure this could be improved by simply changing out the prop? Have limited experience with the 230, ...awesome boat and when loaded right the wake is fantastic! My observation was it did have some side to side sensitivity and needed the extra weight because of its larger size?
Attached Images
  

Last edited by stxr_racer; 07-09-2011 at 7:36 PM.
Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-09-2011, 9:18 PM Reply   
Thanks everyone. This is excellent information.

Anyone know what is new for 2012?
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-10-2011, 9:21 AM Reply   
TDC_worm has got some good info.

I've owned a 2000 XStar (205v) for the last 5 years, and I loved the wake! This year we've got a 2011 230. The wakes are very similar in shape, width, and size. The 230 can get a little bigger though. It can be touchy side to side, but that is easy to fix (just like the 205v). I also have experience with the new 210 and the newer XStars. The new 210 wake is more closely shaped to the picklefork XStar...wider and more rampy than the 230/205v. The 210 is not as sensitive as the 230.

The 230 drives like a corvette, even with 5500 pounds of weight in it...meaning you can use it in smaller lakes, and not have to worry about taking wide turns or anything like that.
Old    Justin (justsan)      Join Date: May 2009       07-11-2011, 10:32 AM Reply   
I haven't ridden behind a 230/236, I just don't know anyone who owns one...but I have a 210, and love it. Very thick, meaty, consistent, non-finicky wake.
Before I bought my boat, I rode behind a 2001 Xstar (new X1), and loved it. The 210 wake is comparable, but a lot thicker and has the potential to get bigger bc the boats stock wake is about the same as the X1 with about 1,200lbs in it.
In regards to the steepness difference from the old san to the new san, if you like a steep wake, just add more stern weight and it will steepen up (not as steep as the old hull, but steeper than most). I love my 210 bc the wake gets huge and stays super clean (I run stock + about 1300# -I have the boat re-propped with the 343hsp Excalibur motor and I have no problems getting out of the whole, does take a little bit longer with 12 people in the boat + weight)...plus, Nautique's known durability and build quality far exceeds other boats on the market, imo.

Good luck -with the choices you have listed, you can't really go wrong...
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-11-2011, 11:37 AM Reply   
I owned 3 230's and a 2002 XStar (205v). My best friend Shawn has a '08 210. Here are my thoughts. The 205v wake is one of the best wakes of all time. The only drawback I see with the 205v wake is that it can only get so big at 75+ ft before you have to speed up to keep it clean (I'm talking like 3k+ extra ballast). Regardless, the shape of the 205v wake is one of my favorites, and it absolutely can get as big as I would ever need. The 210 wake is very similar in shape to the 205v wake. It has a nice transition, lip, ramp, etc. It's not like a brick wall, but it's also not a pure ramp with no lip. The 210 wake seems more scalable, int hat it has the potential to grow larger and retain its shape while staying clean without having to speed up.

The 230 has a great out of the box wake. When adding up to 1k-1.5k in weight, the 230 wake is still nice and lots of fun. It is, in many ways, similar to the 205v wake and the 210 wake, just a bit steeper. The problem I had with my 230's is that when I added anywhere 1.5-2k in weight , the wake would wash out periodically. I'm not talking about a little ripple of foam, I'm talking about rolling over completely. Many of my friends got absolutely trashed hitting my 230 wake when it was weighted heavy due to the wake rolling on them. I tried and tried and tried to get a slammed wake dialed in (for 3 seasons) with the 230's I owned, and never could get it right. What I heard from some pros I talked to last year at the PWT knoxville event, and some other posters on this forum, for those that want a clean wake out of a slammed 230, you basically have to put 4-6k in the boat, and ride at 85+ ft at like 27+ mph. I'm simply not comfortable at that speed or length.

Seems like others have had more success than I had with the 230 wake. Hopefully, I just had some bad luck. The fit and finish and quality of the SAN's I owned were top notch. I loved my 230's, but I went in a different direction this year because I wanted a boat that would produce a huge, consistent, wake at 23-24 mph at anywhere from 70-80 ft, but would also fit my family and friends. If I hadn't needed more room, I would have looked hard at a 210. Those boats are money.

Last edited by chattwake; 07-11-2011 at 11:40 AM.
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-11-2011, 12:36 PM Reply   
Chattwake does have a point - if you want a huge, clean wake out of the 230 you need to ride a little faster than most other boats. We run ours with about 5200 pounds of water ballast, at 90 feet and 26.5 mph.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       07-11-2011, 1:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironj32 View Post
We run ours with about 5200 pounds of water ballast, at 90 feet and 26.5 mph.
Whoa!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-11-2011, 3:39 PM Reply   
I can testify to Jays wake. I rode it last week. It was clean, lippy, and fricken huge!! And I was riding at 80 feet btw.
Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-11-2011, 3:56 PM Reply   
Thanks again for the excellent info. WW is such a great source of knowledge.

I am a novice and old. My riding speed gets slower each year! I am down to 22 - 23 mph. My X-star wake is pretty wide so this forces me to ride short as well. I would enjoy riding a little longer and stay at 22-23mph so the SAN 210 maybe the better fit.

How is the newer electronic menu (Linc I believe is the trade name)? Is it logical?
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-11-2011, 5:48 PM Reply   
the electronic menu is pretty nice. it can be a bit confusing at first, but it only takes a few minutes to get used to. i believe it's supposed to get a bit cleaner for 2012...don't have to change screens as much (not 100% sure though).

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