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Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-04-2011, 3:05 PM Reply   
Ok, I am looking to purchase a newer bigger(21' to 23') boat in the coming years. The boat needs to be good in rough water up to 8' rollers. It needs to be good for wakeboarding and waterskiing. It needs to hold 12 people(V-Drive). My approximate budget is $25,000. I have ridden in a couple newer SAN's and they ride rough in 1' waves, I have ridden in a 2009 X-2 and X-Star they rode well(out of budget). What do they Mobius 23' and 24'7" ride like?
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       07-04-2011, 3:42 PM Reply   
Is there any wake boat that can handle 8Ft. rollers?There is not 1 made that I would trust in rollers that large.One wrong move in water that rough and you're swamped or worse.
Old    Schuey (schuey)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-04-2011, 4:05 PM Reply   
Why would you want to be riding in 8ft rollers?
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-04-2011, 4:10 PM Reply   
Malibu 247...

8' rollers??? if that's not a typo then I would suggest a Kingfisher.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-04-2011, 4:15 PM Reply   
8' rollers equals sunk boat even if is a 25'boat.Nothing rides smooth in 8' rollers.
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-04-2011, 5:53 PM Reply   
This boat will be used in the Great lakes, Lake Erie, and Georgian Bay. It will also be occasionally used for fishing, going to the party on Lake Erie called Pottahawk. What about an older mastercraft 225' VRS? Our current boat can go out in 8' waves it's scary as hell, but it can do it with proper driver skill. I have been on big lakes and rough waters for 30 years.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-04-2011, 8:33 PM Reply   
The boat you describe is impossible at any price much less 25k. You need a small flat bottom for skiing and a large V bottom to handle rough water. I would recommend a Zodiac.
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-04-2011, 9:04 PM Reply   
If you don't have experience don't post please. I don't appreciate comments like this. V-drive's can ski unweighted and board well weighted. Now which boats will handle rough waters?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-04-2011, 9:12 PM Reply   
MC CSX is theeee only boat that fits what you've describe, but you can't afford it.


Quote:
but it can do it with proper driver skill. I have been on big lakes and rough waters for 30 years.
Proper driver skill is not taking their boat out in that sort of weather if the boat cannot handle it.
Old     (tro)      Join Date: May 2009       07-04-2011, 9:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
If you don't have experience don't post please. I don't appreciate comments like this.
you might want to reconsider your attitude toward other posters before coming on here demanding information, craig. fyi - you're not going to find a boat that can handle 8 foot rollers for 25K unless you buy a busted up flat metal towing barge.

Last edited by tro; 07-04-2011 at 9:20 PM.
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       07-04-2011, 9:39 PM Reply   
I ride only in Lake Erie with my boat,a 21' v-drive and if there's white caps I don't bother even taking it off the trailer.There just not meant or built for heavy seas.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-05-2011, 3:54 AM Reply   
I own a 89 Supra Sunsport and a 08 Nautique 210 . For the last 25 years we were mostly on the southern tip of Lake Michigan [Portage] The rule there is south -south west wind and waves no larger than 1-2 ft . Both boats can handle 3 footers but it no fun. The 210 handles rough water better than the Supra . Both would sink in 8 footers. You must be very young to make a comment like that. Good luck with whatever you buy.
Old    Dave Gast (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-05-2011, 4:40 AM Reply   
This boat will be used in the Great lakes, Lake Erie, and Georgian Bay. It will also be occasionally used for fishing, going to the party on Lake Erie called Pottahawk. What about an older mastercraft 225' VRS? Our current boat can go out in 8' waves it's scary as hell, but it can do it with proper driver skill. I have been on big lakes and rough waters for 30 years.



Your profile says you are 19. Wish I had 30 years of boating experience at 19. All that aside I would look for the deepest 23 footer you can. CSX would be a good bet since you want to fish. However, like many others have said you are going to have to at least double your budget to get the newer larger boats.
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-05-2011, 5:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
I own a 89 Supra Sunsport and a 08 Nautique 210 . For the last 25 years we were mostly on the southern tip of Lake Michigan [Portage] The rule there is south -south west wind and waves no larger than 1-2 ft . Both boats can handle 3 footers but it no fun. The 210 handles rough water better than the Supra . Both would sink in 8 footers. You must be very young to make a comment like that. Good luck with whatever you buy.
What is the roughest you have been in lake Erie? Have you ever gone to Pottahawk?
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       07-05-2011, 6:30 AM Reply   
How about an old Fish Nautique + some sort of custom T-top with a tow point on it like the CSX:

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=102603
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-05-2011, 7:17 AM Reply   
This is a joke right? Anything over 3' is going to result in a small craft advisory, and anyone going out in those conditions is not being smart. My parents have a 33' Sea Ray and they dont even risk it.

Mhunter - I miss seeing your Orange Nautique at the Portage gas stations this year, hope the move went well.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-05-2011, 7:42 AM Reply   
Hey Matt

I dont miss much about Indiana . We now live 1/10 from the ramp and across the street from Lake Lanier. We have never had it so good . The season started in Feb with dry suites by march the water was 65 plus now its bath water high 80s . The money we save on towing goes into the boat tank. Its so nice to be able to go out for 1 hour and have 50 min of ski time. If you are ever out this way look us up we will take you out for a pull or two. You are right about this post its either a joke or just plain stupid.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-05-2011, 8:43 AM Reply   
An 8 foot wave with a short interval or any break is going to sink your wakeboarding boat unless you put it on your tail and know how to drive. I would re-budget that $25 grand to include good insurance, an EPIRB and emergency rescue service and a bunch of cold water survival gear for everyone on the boat. Those lakes are cold.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-05-2011, 8:53 AM Reply   
This one should fit the bill. ill need to grind on the price a bit...

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o29969-en.html
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-05-2011, 10:42 AM Reply   
This has turned into a rather humurous thread, which is fine by me. So what can a typical 23' wakeboard boat handle as far as rough waters? Specifically the older Mastercraft Maristar 225 VRS. I have only been out in 8' rollers once, but lots of times in 3' to 4'.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-05-2011, 12:02 PM Reply   
I've been out in 3'-4' rollers many times in my Sanger 215. It handles them fine and I feel safe with my kids in the boat. You do need to have experience and knowledge to avoid problems. It would be worse if there were 12 people in the boat in that. I've had it out in 5' waves which was really fun, but I would not think most people would have enjoyed it. A V237 would be better as it is longer and has a higher freeboard but you won't find that near your price range.
You will find no boat that can handle 8' rollers and is a good waterski boat. You also won't find many 23' boats that are really good for waterskiing either as they are all heavy.
I'm with Michael Hunter on the Zodiac choice. Get a used rigid bottom inflatable of high quality and you can handle 12 people in 8' waves and still be able to ski or wakeboard when it is calm. (I'd suggest a large locker for holding throw-up bags) Of course, you'll still have to buy the outboard.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-05-2011, 2:59 PM Reply   
do people actually plan a day on the lake with 8 ft waves. even 3 ft. why not get 2 boats. a boat to fish on, take out when the weather is terrible and dangerous, and you have very little invested in it so in the event that you sink it, you have little loss, then get a smaller v drive that ski's well and take it out when the weather is nice. You could probably get 2 boats in the 25k price range
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-05-2011, 6:36 PM Reply   
I would like clarification on how you have so much expierence boating at 19? And I think that 25k for you want is like wanting a 1/2 ton gasser that gets 32mpg but still can tow a 28 foot toy hauler for around 15k. Asking alot on a small budget. Do you surf? if not, maybe get a deep v 24' crownline or something and PIMP that thing out for party cove? I bet skiing would suck. But you would lessen your chances of taking a ride up a Coast Guard hoist.
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-06-2011, 6:55 AM Reply   
The boat is for my father and I. HE has 30 years of experience. So a 21 to 23' boat should be able to do up to 5' or 6' rollers. We never plan on going out in really rough waters. A couple party's are only on one day of the year. So if it's rough I would like to be able to still go. Also sometimes we trailer over an hour if its rough we still want to boat. Enough with the Zodiac talk, does anyone have experience skiing/boarding behind a Mastercraft Maristar 225' VRS?

Last edited by doc1; 07-06-2011 at 6:56 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-06-2011, 7:08 AM Reply   
How about an older Tige 24V with TAPS??? I know they have a nice big fee board and handle rough water well. Probably get in your price range. Tige owners can chime in.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-06-2011, 8:52 AM Reply   
21' or 23' boat in 5' or 6' rollers? Anyone with half a brain is going to avoid that combo. I don't think you grasp how rough that is, especially with tow boats that typically have a small amount of deadrise.
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-06-2011, 8:59 AM Reply   
agreed if im standing in the trough of a roller, and the peak is over my head. yeah no boat needs or can be in that. your looking for a ship lol.
i know how rough it is going over someones 3' surf wake roller. doubleing that would be an epic fail.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-06-2011, 9:06 AM Reply   
Tim, is the Maristar the mid 90's one with the built in platform? If it is the older one I haven't really ever heard anything good about them. The late 90's to early 2000's Maristar 225 vrs is the same hull as the X30 If I am not mistaken. Those X30's were pretty good boats and with lots of weight could throw a good wakeboard wake. they aren't really deep by todays standards but should be ok and if you ever get stuck in 8 foot swells it is 99% the driver not the boat. Keep the bow up at 12-15 mph and plow like hell. I am guessing the ski wake wouldn't be great but for an occassional ski might be fine.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       07-06-2011, 9:41 AM Reply   
I've been in 8 ft swells on a Sea Doo out in the gulf and it was a blast and I also own a 2000 Maristar 230 VRS. I definitely wouldn't have been interested in attempting the same thing in my 230. It does handle other boat wakes pretty well though even at slow speed w/ 2,700 lbs of ballast. I've never dipped the bow in my boat but when I was driving my neighbor's SAN 210 with less ballast I had to be super careful over wakes and dipped the bow a couple of times. I've never even been out in open water in it though.

If I was in your scenario and just wanted to be prepared for the worst if I got stuck out in rough water in my 230 I'd install a 2nd bilge pump. Whatever the biggest capacity (GPH) I could find that would fit in the bilge and possibly even upgrade the factory pump to a higher flow rate too. I'd also get a snap on bow cover and keep it on the boat at all times. This way if you get stuck out on the water you could throw that bow cover on and reduce the amount of water that ends up in the hull going over waves. I'd probably custom make this cover possibly even with support bows under it to shed as much water as possible without it failing under the weight of the water.

I still wouldn't intentionally venture out in more than about 2 ft. swells though.
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       07-06-2011, 10:04 AM Reply   
I don't know why we are all even posting on this ridiculous thread.I've been boating on Erie for 20 seasons and I know for a fact that no wake boat,with the exception of maybe the MC X-80, can handle 5-6 footers.5-6 footers on Erie are rarely rollers,they are funky waves that will pummel most boats under 30'.Where's dakid with the popcorn?
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-07-2011, 7:55 AM Reply   
If you ever get into seas where you cannot keep the nose out of the next wave, regardless of how good you drive, you would think twice about venturing into 8 foot seas. You guys will love the time spent on a good wake boat but you need to reconsider the conditions you will attempt.

I remember being 19 and wanting a dedicated ski boat and my dad wanting a Lake Michigan capable fishing boat. True ski boats were not that common in Illinois in the early 80's but when I showed up with a inboard Mastercraft I will never forget my Dads face. We put in into Lake Michigan once and it sucked. We used the boat at a small lake/cottage in Northern Wisconsin and my Dad became a driver instead of fisherman. The boat turned out the be a great family experience and we spent countless hours loving that boat. Our next three boats were inboards as well...end of story.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       07-07-2011, 8:32 AM Reply   
having spent 17 years living in Seattle and fishing offshore- as far as 70 miles out for Albacore tuna and King Salmon, I have been in huge seas- 12' rollers on 5 second intervals with 2-3 foot wind chop on top. There IS NO WAY any wake boat would take this or anything close to it. an 8 foot roller isn't bad if they are 15 seconds apart- but on the great lakes if you see rollers this high, they are stacked and you'd sink any small hull really fast.
What you're going for isn't going to happen. I would recommend a large hull fishing rig like the one pictured in this post, and outfit a ball on the top to pull tubes, boarders, etc.

My buddy in Seattle has a 22 foot Hewes craft ( spelling) with a 150 Yamaha 4 stroke outboard. it's an enclosed cabin and like I mentioned, we have gone 70 miles off shore for tuna many times with it. He installed a trailer ball on the back of the cabin last year and we pull wakeboarders on lake entiat for three days- worked great! The wake isn't great, but it was fun and accomplished what we needed it to do.

Ask yourself what you are going to be doing with the boat MOST of the time and buy that. My 21V Tige is a great rough water boat, but I would never put in in water with 3-4 foot stacked rollers and wind chop- that's a recipe for disaster.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-07-2011, 8:40 AM Reply   
5-8's rollers? You are not looking for a wakeboat. I had mine in 3-4 rollers and ended up having to hide in the cove tied off to a tree pushing the boat to keep it from hitting shore. You can have all the driving skill in the world, doesn't make it possible to drive one of these boats in those waters.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       07-07-2011, 9:02 AM Reply   
^ this. No wakeboat could handle 8 foot rollers, let alone 4 foot rollers. Get yourself a jetski man! You can wakeskate and waterski behind it, it will handle the 8 foot rollers that you are looking to deal with, and if you attach a couple tubes you can probably tow around the 12 people you need. It will be in your budget as well. You'll probably have a bunch of money left over too and you can build a nice kicker and wakeboard off that.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-07-2011, 9:42 AM Reply   
The botttom line is that no boat will do it all well.

Prioritize what you need/want and then go from there.

It's all going to be a compromise as all boats are.

You can wakeboard behind just about any boat. It may not be ideal, but you can do it.

Conversely, every boat can't handle big water. 8 ft, 6 ft, 4 ft, whatever you might experience will be rough with most, if not all the ski/wake inboards on the market.

Prioritize the order of importance (Hint: if pops is paying, his come first) and then put boats on the list and rank them in order of how they are likely to handle those situations.

I would say you need to be looking for an I/O so you can trim it out and work with your conditions better (not saying it will handle 8 foot rollers), but it will handle rough water better. Put a tower on it, add some sacks, put in a stereo and it will be the most versatile.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       07-07-2011, 9:50 AM Reply   
I was serious about my Fish Nautique post above. It won't throw a competition quality wake but it will be about the best you can do and still have some ability to handle larger waves. The inboard engine will have more torque, be more reliable and easier to work on than a comparable outboard. Spend $5-8k or so on a nice reliable one, install Perfect Pass and some ballast bags, reinforce/rebuild the T top to act as a tower, and it will make a decent budget Great Lakes wakeboard boat.
Old    Jared (norwalkbeast)      Join Date: May 2011       07-07-2011, 10:12 AM Reply   
Maybe you need a Mc 300 if there is 8ft rollers.
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-07-2011, 11:31 AM Reply   
I've never heard of a fish nautique before reading this thread (and I still can't tell if this is all bs troll or what, 8' rollers really?) but I think these things are baller, I want one now!!

I have to agree with Jeff that a Fish Nautique is the closest to all your needs, it's still not going do well in 8' rollers.

Tim don't get so worked up over people telling you a wakeboat isn't going to do well in big rollers, you'd tell someone the same thing if they where looking for an exotic car to go off roading with, it's just not what they are made to do. They are made for flat water and flat pavement.

12 underage people at a party cove riding back in a wakeboat in 8' rollers sounds like a lawsuit to me. Please don't put them all in the bow.
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Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-07-2011, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowslider76 View Post
I've never heard of a fish nautique before reading this thread (and I still can't tell if this is all bs troll or what, 8' rollers really?) but I think these things are baller, I want one now!!

I have to agree with Jeff that a Fish Nautique is the closest to all your needs, it's still not going do well in 8' rollers.

Tim don't get so worked up over people telling you a wakeboat isn't going to do well in big rollers, you'd tell someone the same thing if they where looking for an exotic car to go off roading with, it's just not what they are made to do. They are made for flat water and flat pavement.

12 underage people at a party cove riding back in a wakeboat in 8' rollers sounds like a lawsuit to me. Please don't put them all in the bow.
Sounds like a canidate for the darwin awards to me.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-07-2011, 11:58 AM Reply   
Fish Nautank - It's a heavy, slow moving, wood stringer hull. Perfect for crappy water.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       07-07-2011, 12:11 PM Reply   
ok let me get this straight, you want to buy a boat that can do everything, take on anything.... and you're on a budget?

good luck with that, hoss.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-07-2011, 1:26 PM Reply   
would some one please delete this thread
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-07-2011, 2:13 PM Reply   
Dougr if you don't have anything to add to the thread don't bother posting. In Canada 19 is the legal age by the way. I think an older 23' boat will do but a comprimise will have to be made in regards to rough water. We've only been out in 8' rollers once and we went 1/3 mile from the launch to the beach. But 3' to 5' is pretty standard in lake Erie.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-07-2011, 4:23 PM Reply   
Good luck with that 23 footer skiing . If you do take it out in 3-5 footers make sure your insurance is payed and your will is in order.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-07-2011, 7:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
Dougr if you don't have anything to add to the thread don't bother posting. In Canada 19 is the legal age by the way. I think an older 23' boat will do but a comprimise will have to be made in regards to rough water. We've only been out in 8' rollers once and we went 1/3 mile from the launch to the beach. But 3' to 5' is pretty standard in lake Erie.
You can lead a horse to water...

Honestly though, why shouldn't this thread be deleted. Almost everyone has cautioned you against taking a wakeboat out in those conditions. You show zero signs of listening. Why continue?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-07-2011, 7:45 PM Reply   
A Mastercraft CSX265 would be perfect. Or a Zodiac. Or I could just be posting to annoy the OP.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       07-07-2011, 8:02 PM Reply   
From what I can tell, Tim here not only isn't listening, he downright lacks courtesy and manners. His cute little "if you don't have anything to add" comments are getting old.

Well Tim, if you're so damn knowledgeable, why the hell are you posting on here?
Old    Tim Jeckyll (doc1)      Join Date: May 2011       07-07-2011, 8:08 PM Reply   
It just seems hard to believe that none of these boats can handle 3' rollers at a 23' boat. Having ridden in smaller boats all my life that could. Maybe we need to keep our current boat and add a wakeboat. I would still like to be able to go out in measly 3' waves safely.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-08-2011, 6:30 AM Reply   
I would feel much safer and definitely more comfortable in my fathers 16 foot whaler in larger waves than 99% of the true ski boats on the market. Honestly, no sarcasm at all.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-08-2011, 6:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
It just seems hard to believe that none of these boats can handle 3' rollers at a 23' boat. Having ridden in smaller boats all my life that could. Maybe we need to keep our current boat and add a wakeboat. I would still like to be able to go out in measly 3' waves safely.
You're 19 and it shows. No one wants to take a small boat out in 3 foot swells. These are performance boats, they are built to create large wakes in flat water. Some handle chop better than others, but none of them are built with idea that someone would want to run them through extremely rough water. Does it happen sometimes, yes, do the boats do well no. Everyone has told you they aren't built for it, take it as truth or go drop tens of thousands on one and stubbornly test it out yourself. Seeing that you're 19 odds are you won't be able to do so, and for your sake that's a good thing. I'm sure the search and rescue in your area are thankful for that fact.
Old    jdgreen1            07-08-2011, 7:10 AM Reply   
Like others have said, the answer is the MC CSX265. Tim will need to add about $100k to his budget though.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       07-08-2011, 7:19 AM Reply   
i just want you to strap a GoPro on and flim your attempt to battle 8 foot seas in a 23' boat!
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-08-2011, 7:53 AM Reply   
Wouldnt even want to take my buddies 52' out on 8' seas.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-08-2011, 12:42 PM Reply   
^^Ain't that the truth there's better ways to beat yourself up. Eight foot seas are just not fun even if your catching fish. I guarantee even that 52 footer is a wet ride in those seas.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-08-2011, 1:19 PM Reply   
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-...foot-seas.html

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