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Old    George Palovcak (gpalovcak)      Join Date: May 2003       06-21-2011, 7:28 PM Reply   
We were out boarding on the river with a channel in it. We had a rider in tow and riding on the edge of the channel and a boat is coming at us head on. We notice it about a 1/4 mile way. Since we are towing we just hold our course and expect the other boat to yield to us. Well the other boat as it gets closer is a NJ State Police boat and he just holds his course and does not move. As I realize he is not moving over I move. As he passes us he pulls us over and says how we are in the wrong for not yielding to him.

I thought if we are under tow with a rider already in tow we would have the right of way? Thoughts on this?
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-21-2011, 8:35 PM Reply   
Power tripping?
On my lake, the locals usually give right of way to a person towing, and if both are towing, the one that was there first. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who dont go there regularly, and therefore get branded as idiots when the do circles around you with their tube.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-21-2011, 8:48 PM Reply   
Yes, technically, you do probably have right of way...

...except...

dude, it was a cop get the hell out of his way!


And besides, it's never a real good idea to EXPECT that someone is going to yield to your 'right of way' because who knows if they know the rules.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-22-2011, 5:38 AM Reply   
What sound signal did you sound? It should have been a one-whistle pass. In a head-on, both move right. You must do everything to avoid a collision. That said, the cop violated the Island Nav Rules if it went down as you said.

The cop was not under the duty to determine if you were towing. It is a head-on scenario. Under the inland rules, you are still burdened to move right. In a collision, I would have cited both of you - even though you were towing and he was a cop. The rules are the same for both.

Take the time to pass the USCGA or Power Squadron course. It is well worth the time.

FWIW - I was a USCG Investigating Officer
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-22-2011, 5:56 AM Reply   
From what I remember the slower boat ALWAYS has the right of way... but I took the course like 12 years ago
Old    Davis (Texan)      Join Date: May 2011       06-22-2011, 5:58 AM Reply   
Little piece of info not included in your post... which side of the river you were on. Rivers are like roadways gotta stay on the right side. If you were on the left side, you were at fault.
Old    George Palovcak (gpalovcak)      Join Date: May 2003       06-22-2011, 6:42 AM Reply   
We did not sound a signal, I did move to the left to get further away from the channel in the river. If I would have gone right like the rules said then it puts me in the channel where I did not want to be. My point is we are on the river that is about ” of a mile wide and it is just us and the other boat. Knowing that we have a skier in tow your not allowed to operate within 100’ of a skier in tow rule would come into play first. With rule that he would had been nowhere near us.

I have taken the course years ago and I guess I was more pissed on why would he have to come that close when it was just the 2 of us out there.

We were boarding on the left side of the river outside of the green channel markers. With that being said I do not think we are going the wrong direction in the river since were outside of the traffic lanes. We are looking for the best water to ride in and it was in the section we were at.
Old    Derek (blatantblunts)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-22-2011, 8:26 AM Reply   
god damn pigs... cop tried to right me a $90 ticket yesterday because the brake light on my trailer was out.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-22-2011, 10:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
god damn pigs... cop tried to right me a $90 ticket yesterday because the brake light on my trailer was out.
You mean a police officer tried to do his job by citing you for something you were doing wrong?!

Why do people hate cops so much?!!? They are just doing their job. 99% of the time if you are ticketed, pulled over, or talked to by the police it is because YOU WERE IN THE WRONG!... No one hates a plummer for fixing you pipes, a nurse for giving you a shot, or the USPS guy for delivering your mail.



In the original situation, were you ticketed or just talked to? If all he did was talk to you and then I would say no harm no foul... may have been a PITA but now you know the rules/law/etc and it shouldn't happen again.... if he ticketed for creating that situation then I would say there is room for some anger
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-22-2011, 10:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
god damn pigs... cop tried to right me a $90 ticket yesterday because the brake light on my trailer was out.
How about "Wow! That cop was a decent guy. He could have given me a ticket but didn't."
Old    mojo            06-22-2011, 10:45 AM Reply   
Someone pulling a rider or what have u has more right of way, but if two boats are heading towards each other each should bear right. If it wasn't marine police chances are he had no idea about boat laws
Old    mojo            06-22-2011, 10:47 AM Reply   
We hate cops bc the majority are power tripping losers. Homicide and rape detectives and the like are fine, but beat cops have nothing to do but meet quotas and stats. As a 19 ur old at a house party we got word cops were down the street. Everyone but the home owners kid and a few of us stayed. Cleaned all the beer, and locked the doors. Cops broke in the back glass and put laser sights on us. Determined I was drunk by using a pen for my eyes to follow. Funny thing is u can't get arrested in my county on private property for minor in possession. I still had to sit in metro for about 4 hours. Null processed. F the police

Last edited by mojo; 06-22-2011 at 10:50 AM.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-22-2011, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
As a 19 ur old at a house party we got word cops were down the street. Everyone but the home owners kid and a few of us stayed. Cleaned all the beer, and locked the doors.
So wait, you were doing something illegal? Then they caught you.... and you're mad?

Quote:
Cops broke in the back glass and put laser sights on us.
My guess there is more to the story...
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-22-2011, 1:57 PM Reply   
Even head on I still think its pretty easy to tell you are pulling a rider.
Old    Dave W (njskier)      Join Date: Jul 2005       06-22-2011, 6:10 PM Reply   
^real easy to tell in NJ......we use skier flags! The cop should have seen that and steered clear of the skier in tow.

boarditup, do the rules state that on a river you have to keep to the right even if you're outside the channel? I'm not sure that's the law. And there is no counter-clockwise rule on this river similar to the rule on some lakes.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-23-2011, 1:57 PM Reply   
In CALI the law says: Towing a skier does not give the operator of the vessel
any special privileges. The rules of the road must be observed

So towing does not have anything to do with right of way here and I doubt it gives anyone any right of way anywhere.

It's usually best not to "insist" on your right of way even if the law is on your side. Insisting on right of way results in collisions.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-23-2011, 2:05 PM Reply   
I think the "towing right-of-way" refers to towing another vessel or something large that will substantially limit your ability to change course. I don't think pulling a skier gives you that right.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-23-2011, 2:29 PM Reply   
Under the Inland Rules, you must move right to avoid a collision unless another signal is given - say a port-to-port pass - two whistles. In the channel, you must be on the right side. outside the channel, you are still burdened under the rules to move right. Towing the rider does not matter in this scenario. That is not the towing contemplated in the NavRules. State laws speak of waterskiing - the NavRules do not.

You were burdened to 1. Signal for a pass (one or two whistle) 2. Make a course change apparent to the other vessel. 3) Perform whatever action necessary to avoid a collision. That goes for both pilots.

The police are not given special rights under the NavRules. If a collision would have occurred, and I was the Investigating Officer, both pilots (person in charge of vessel navigation) would have been cited.

I guess I take this subject a bit seriously. Most people here should take the USCGA or Power Squadron course - especially if they are on a public waterway with navigation aids and commercial traffic. The expectations of conduct are a lot higher than on a small, inland lake. However, all state laws are based on the Inland NavRules. Pay attention, if everyone followed the rules, collisions would not occur. Even if only one pilot follows the rules, very few collisions would occur.
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-23-2011, 3:31 PM Reply   
Karl - You have inspired me to enroll in one of these courses, and have officially made this one of the more useful threads I have read on WW. Thanks!
Old    David (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       06-23-2011, 6:00 PM Reply   
You were towing on the left side of the river and you think you had the right of way? Doesn't matter if your towing or not you should have moved right to the side you're supposed to be on. Sure ride on the left when no other boats are around but if someone is coming at you, you should move over.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-23-2011, 7:07 PM Reply   
To the OP, I also ride the Delaware River. To my understanding, that cop was absolutely in the wrong. You were riding outside the marked channel, and since we're talking NJ/PA presumably had a skiier flag up. He should have stayed clear. Personally if there was room (depth) to safely move farther left outside of the channel I would have moved noticeably to the left closer the the PA shoreline (sounds like you were going upriver) so your intentions were clear... Unless of course he was far enough away that there would be no confusion about your intentions, which doesn't sound like it was the case since you noticed him and thought about how close he was for a moment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
So wait, you were doing something illegal? Then they caught you.... and you're mad?
Firstly, it was a victimless crime and should not be illegal in the first place, but aside from that it sounds like it wasn't even illegal in his state since he was on his own property. Primarily though, his Fourth Amendment rights were clearly violated. Anything else is irrelevant, the cop was in the wrong and should be fired for not having a warrant as well as charged and serve jail time for breaking and entering. Oh wait, I suppose you think the Patriot Act trumps the Fourth Amendment?



Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
You mean a police officer tried to do his job by citing you for something you were doing wrong?!

Why do people hate cops so much?!!? They are just doing their job. 99% of the time if you are ticketed, pulled over, or talked to by the police it is because YOU WERE IN THE WRONG!... No one hates a plummer for fixing you pipes, a nurse for giving you a shot, or the USPS guy for delivering your mail.
Citation for a burnt out taillight is not going to solve the problem. There was no intent to drive without a taillight and it very well could have just burnt out during that trip. Personally I check my trailer lights every time I hook up as I suspect most here do. I don't carry spares with me, as I suspect most here do not. If I find out I have a light out, I go get a bulb and fix it before towing. If I'm already towing and it goes out en-route, there's not much that can be done immediately, but I can make my way to a parts store and get a bulb.

A fine is not solution oriented and will not change the behavior or someone driving with a light out. Heck, for those that live paycheck to paycheck a fine might mean the person has to cut back on other things that month in order to pay the fine, perhaps that means less food for those really unfortunate, or perhaps that means afteer the $90 fine there isn't money for a $2 light bulb. It's in everyone's best interest to have functional lighting on their vehicle, there should be no fines for non-functional lighting. Every vehicle has two headlights and two taillights for this reason, so there is still visibility at night and for braking, signaling a turn is secondary and can be done manually if necessary.

I'm reminded of a time I had a headlight switch go bad on my truck. Of course I was driving home at night. All the light on my truck went out, headlights, taillights, interior lights, etc. I pulled over checked for a problem, and my lights came back on after a few minutes, then went out again. I knew it was a faulty headlight switch overheating from the current draw. I unplugged one headlight to reduce the current draw, and my lights stayed on with no issues. I had two choices, either stay on the side of the road parked illegally, drive illegally (one headlight out) a short distance to loiter in a parking lot while sleeping in my truck until the sun came up (illegal), or drive the 20 minutes home with a headlight out (illegal) and replace the headlight switch the following day when parts stores were open.

Since all my options were illegal and would result in a fine if caught, and possibly towing on my truck if I parked illegally or loitered in a parking lot I chose to drive the 20 minutes home with one headlight unplugged. I was stopped and written a citation by a cop a short distance later. I explained to the officer that my headlight switch was bad, not the headlight, and that if I plugged the headlight back in all the lights on the truck would go out. I popped the hood and asked him to watch if he didn't believe me, he refused and after plugging the headlight back in he wouldn't even step 4' to get to the front of the truck and see both headlights lit. So while he was writing me a ticket I turned the truck around with both headlights shining at his car, got out so it would be obvious I couldn't turn the lights off, and waited. He got out of his car to give me the ticket and complain about moving my truck, while he was doing this all the lights on the truck went dead. I reiterated that my headlight switch was bad, all the parts stores were closed, and there was no legal course of action for me. He gave me the ticket and left.

Personally I don't think that's right, as it's unreasonable to expect people to carry a spare of every possible part that may fail on their vehicle, and give them no legal course of action if something trivial should fail. Reasons like this are why so many people "hate cops for doing their job" or "citing you for something you were doing wrong". It wasn't my choice to have my headlight fail at that time, nor was it the other guys choice to have his taillight fail at that time. There was no intent to do anything illegal, and in my case the intent was to get home safely. If I had a legal option I would do that.

Aside form that, a police officer's job is very different from the postal service or a private company's job. Police deal in the potential of infringing on people's rights and taking money at gunpoint, while you pay them to do so. They dance on a fine line that is usually clearly defined. When they cross that line, people get pissed and resent them. A police officer enforcing an immoral law, or one that violates your rights makes him just as bad as the politicians that wrote that law.

Personally I don't understand why some people worship the ground cops walk on, consider them above the law and completley without fault. I've been on the receiving end of harsh fines and violations of my rights on too many occasions where there is no choice to follow the law unless I wanted to ruin my life. For this I am suspect of all police. Funny thing is outside of NJ I've never experienced or seen the same level of police abuse of power, harshness and flagrant violation of rights that goes on here.
Old    Alex Kinon (nj_alex)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-24-2011, 4:13 AM Reply   
George: I had pretty-much the same thing happen last Saturday. It was probably the same guy. I was pulling a rider north, well outside the channel on the PA side, just north of the 25 over-pass. Coming in from the channel to my right, the state policeman clearly chaged his path to cross my bow and pretty-much begin a collision course with me. I had no idea why the Hell he was doing this, I held my line for a few seconds waiting for him to change his course, and when he didn't, I made a conspicuous course change to my port side, into the channel. I had never had a police boat do this before and I figured he was going to switch on the lights and stop me. But once we passed him he accelerated and went on his way. Bizarre.
.
In other news, great seeing you and Denise at Wakefest ! The pictures from the midday raft-up at the sand bar are great!
Old    Jeffrey Byron (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-24-2011, 8:48 AM Reply   
No idea if this is the law, but always made sense to me.

Give the right of way in this priority:

1. Swimmer
2. paddler (canoe, paddle boat, etc.)
3. sailor
4. airplane
5. boat in tow
6. boat
Wave runners never get the right of way

Again, not saying it's the law, but seems logical. More importantly, realize that most people don't follow this, but this is how I envision it "should" be. As you know, boat accidents are like motorcylce accidents - They rarely end well.

Oh, and most cops I've run into are complete knobs, but it's always awesome when you run into a cool one. The "just doing your job" line is an awful argument.

Last edited by 99xstar; 06-24-2011 at 8:50 AM.
Old    Professor (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-24-2011, 9:04 AM Reply   
Kybool, no need for a course. The first rule of the right-of-way is that the reddest boat ALWAYS has the right of way. The second rule is to head to the right when aimed at oncoming boats or pass to the right if overtaking slower boats. End of lesson.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-24-2011, 11:38 AM Reply   
If you have someone piloting erratically, take good notes, including the boat's ID numbers and let the USCG know. They will follow up. If there is a police boat pilot violating the NavRules, the USCG will take care of business. They set an example and hate for it to be diluted by another law enforcement agency. It gives all of them a bad reputation. They will act if they get enough detailed, verified reports.

Here is what you need: Date, time, location, hull ID, exactly what happened, PICTURES or video really helps. Law enforcement officers must set a proper example! This includes me (of course, former law enforcement, now).
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       06-24-2011, 11:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadunkle View Post
Firstly, it was a victimless crime and should not be illegal in the first place, but aside from that it sounds like it wasn't even illegal in his state since he was on his own property. Primarily though, his Fourth Amendment rights were clearly violated. Anything else is irrelevant, the cop was in the wrong and should be fired for not having a warrant as well as charged and serve jail time for breaking and entering. Oh wait, I suppose you think the Patriot Act trumps the Fourth Amendment?


Citation for a burnt out taillight is not going to solve the problem. There was no intent to drive without a taillight and it very well could have just burnt out during that trip. Personally I check my trailer lights every time I hook up as I suspect most here do. I don't carry spares with me, as I suspect most here do not. If I find out I have a light out, I go get a bulb and fix it before towing. If I'm already towing and it goes out en-route, there's not much that can be done immediately, but I can make my way to a parts store and get a bulb.
If a cop broke the window and drew his wepon, there's a bigger piece of the story left out. And you. Do not need a warrant with probably cause which in this case sounds like there was was something going on.
To answer the second part, the reasons there are fines is because there not everyone would get the problem fixed. In a perfect world, they'd tell you your light is out and everyone would replace it. In this world, if there was no accountability, what's the point of any law. There are some cops that live by the book, but most are a little more passive. How many times has a cop passed you on the freeway and not issued a ticket when you were speeding?
There are those who just hate authority. People get angry at their boss too because they "make the work and do their job" heaven forbid!
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-24-2011, 1:41 PM Reply   
Fortunately in Florida the last time I had a light out the law was much more reasonable. You are issued a citation that had a very small fine (like $5) if you showed a receipt for the parts or repair. Can't tell you the consequences of not repairing as I didn't take that route.

Although in these economic times it wouldn't surprise me if the fine was much harsher. Seems like the first thing the state does in an economic downturn when people are hurting is to raise fees and fines.

For example, when the economy crashed they raised the fee for an new car tag from $100 to $225. That's not the price of the tag, but the price of adding a car. IOW if you took a car off the road previously you got credit for already having paid the fee.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-24-2011, 2:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 View Post
If a cop broke the window and drew his wepon, there's a bigger piece of the story left out. And you. Do not need a warrant with probably cause which in this case sounds like there was was something going on.
According to the OP consumption/posession of alcohol by minors is not illegal on their own property in his state. Some states have laws like that, but of course do not allow minors to be served at restaurants/bars or be intoxicated (any alcohol in blood) in public. Probably cause does not apply to trespassing on someone's own property. Probable cause is to be used in obtaining a search warrant to search the property. The the police must present a warrant to enter a person's home or residence without permission. From what we were told it sounds like this search was illegal and done on a whim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 View Post
To answer the second part, the reasons there are fines is because there not everyone would get the problem fixed. In a perfect world, they'd tell you your light is out and everyone would replace it. In this world, if there was no accountability, what's the point of any law. There are some cops that live by the book, but most are a little more passive. How many times has a cop passed you on the freeway and not issued a ticket when you were speeding?
There are those who just hate authority. People get angry at their boss too because they "make the work and do their job" heaven forbid!
Perhaps true, perhaps not. The fact remains it is in everyone's best interest to have functional lighting on a vehicle and trailer. Without that, accidents may happen. No one wants their vehicle totalled. Anyone can afford a buck or tow for a light bulb or a few bucks for a headlight. After a $90+ fine with jail time and seizure of your assets if yo don't pay it, I'd wager there are plenty of people who just can't afford the few dollars to replace some lights after the fine. I'm always amazed at how many of my friends overextend themselves on stupid things and live paycheck to paycheck, or racked up debt or whatever... They barely have enough gas in their car to get to work and literally no money by halfway through the week. For these people a $90 fine means they don't eat next week as they have to pay their bills to keep their home and the car needs gas to get to work. The first thing to cut for many people is food, it becomes a week or two of a very poor diet which affects all aspects of their life, from being tired, hungry, distracted at work, etc.

I don't believe fines for trivial violations with no intent to violate the law, like a burnt out light bulb, serve to increase safety or the fix rate for those violations. I believe they only serve to increase the size of the State coffers and keep poor people down and paying the hidden taxes... Which is ironic because eventually they end up on welfare or unemployment. If there was no intent to violate the law and no one was harmed, there's no reason for a fine.

I paid about $3000 in fines over the course of a few weeks years back when NJ went to requiring a birth certificate to renew your driver's license. I went to renew before mine expired, with more than the required items. I brought my official state birth certificate, a photocopy of it frmo when I was born, the fancy hospital one with foot prints, along with my draft card, old drivers license, several bills and bank statements, credit cards, AAA card, blood donor card, work ID, etc. Far more than they required. I borught so much because I heard the new requirements were a pain and figured I'd cover my bases. Well they wouldn't renew my license because my birth certificate has part of the seal worn flat from sitting in a filing cabinet for all those years.

I was shocked that was their reason. I told them who in their right mind would forge half a seal and age a document to look period correct? They said not their problem. I spoke to the supervisor who said no big deal, just drive to the city half an hour away and get a copy for $10 and come back. That wouldn't work since I was not born in NJ, but rather was born in MI. They didn't care. I tried two other DMV's with the same result, even the ghetto one in the highest crime capitol of the country (at the time, it's now #2) since they usually employ people form that city and typically overlook minor stuff. No luck there either.

So I looked up how to get a official birth certificate from MI, $70 and 6-8 weeks to get it. Of course that timeframe was a problem since my license expired in a week. I called the records people in MI and explained my situation, that I needed a copy by the weekend or I would be driving illegally. They said there was no way to expedite it, to just order online and wait was the only way. So that's what I did.

My registration and inspection also were due for renewal that month. The DMV would not let me renew my registration without a valid drivers license. I tried going to the inspection station to have that done and they would not inspect my car if it did not have a valid registration. So not only did I not have a valid drivers license, I also had an unregistered and uninspected car.

In the meantime I was driving 160 miles/day to/from work. I couldn't not go to work for up to 2 months, as I had bills to pay and needed things like food. So limited my driving to only to work and back, and did any other errands I needed on the way home from work. I was stopped several times for driving without a license and given a set of tickets for no license, no registration and no inspection. Each time I was given the same tickets, despite explaining the whole situation to the officer each time and each subsequent time showing the previous sets of tickets. These amounted to over $3000 in fines, which of course after that I really had no choice except to keep driving to work or I wouldn't be able to pay them and would eventually be carted off to jail.

Eventually after a few sets of tickets, still no birth certificate in the mail, and weekly calls to MI to check on status and beg for a rush on it, I got a notification in the mail of a warrant for my arrest for too many driving unlicensed tickets. I received this on a Saturday. I immediately went to the township building to explain the situation and ask what I should do. of course they're closed on weekends... But that won't stop them from arresting you on weekends.

So I drove around town until I found a cop sitting at a speed trap. Pulled over and explained the situation and asked what to do. He said I could either lay low and stay at home, or continue going to work and get arrested. Fortunately the next week my birth certificate came, I got everything renewed, had to take a day off work to go to court for the arrest warrant, which was dismissed but with $30 in court costs I had to pay for that, and then $30 per ticket I contested in court costs (that was all of them, a few hundred dollars in addition to the $3000+ in fines).

That whole situation was the height or absurdity of "law" and "authority". It's experiences like that which make people resent the police and our corrupt legal system. You wind up essentially pinned between a rock and a hard place. Either break the law (not hurting anyone, victimless crime) or lose your job and end up homeless. It's insanity.

As for your boss giving people work they may not like analogy... That's no at all the same thing. Working for a company is a voluntary thing. You can quit at any time. Your boss does not violate your rights by giving you work to do, nor does he put undue financial hardship on you when there was no harm done.

Sorry that was so long, but it seems some people make blanket statements and worship law makers and law enforcement as if they are so holy and without fault, while so many people's lives are ruined or put on hold when they did no harm to anyone. I don't think those who say "you broke the law and got what you deserved" understand these things, and how much pain and suffering this system inflicts on some people.
Old    George Palovcak (gpalovcak)      Join Date: May 2003       06-24-2011, 5:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nj_alex View Post
George: I had pretty-much the same thing happen last Saturday. It was probably the same guy. I was pulling a rider north, well outside the channel on the PA side, just north of the 25 over-pass. Coming in from the channel to my right, the state policeman clearly chaged his path to cross my bow and pretty-much begin a collision course with me. I had no idea why the Hell he was doing this, I held my line for a few seconds waiting for him to change his course, and when he didn't, I made a conspicuous course change to my port side, into the channel. I had never had a police boat do this before and I figured he was going to switch on the lights and stop me. But once we passed him he accelerated and went on his way. Bizarre.
.
In other news, great seeing you and Denise at Wakefest ! The pictures from the midday raft-up at the sand bar are great!
Alex yea it sounds like the same guy. Next time I will try and get picture on our camera phone.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       06-25-2011, 9:10 AM Reply   
ok Cory, you are one of the exceptions to the rule, your situation is a tad bit extreme to the norm. You have the right to be pissed. But an underage kid mad about getting caught drinking, no right to be angry. The dude who has three beers then gets a DUI, guitly. The person caught speeding, guilty. These are probably things most of us on this board do, and we all realize there are consequences, we CHOOSE to take that risk when it comes to breaking any law. Reasonable expectation would have been on your side in your situation, a lot was beyond your control and the people at the office should have helped you out. And I do agree with you about the choosing where to work scenario, but 90% of the people out there would rather complain about their boss and blame someone else for their unhappiness VS quitting and looking for something that would make them happy.

We have an area out here for riding and it is limited to 21' vessels, no tubes, or towables, reserved for skiing and wakeboarding. my buddy took his 23 LSV in there, then was ticketed. victimless, yes. Is there a big sign both in the parking lot entrance and water entrance stating the rules and size of vessels allowed, yes. Is it a stupid rule, absolutely! He CHOOSE to ignore the rules that were clearly posted, and which we already knew because we have gone there for years, but then is upset about a ticket. Besides, before you go on any waterway, you should know the rules and regulations. I always look it up prior to me going somewhere new. Ignorance is not a acceptable answer to not knowing local laws
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-25-2011, 11:14 AM Reply   
I see your point Dave, and there is validity to it... Certainly for the cases like your friend with the 23' LSV, speeding, etc. There is a choice and while the laws may not be right, may be stupid, may have no logic or reason... There is a choice and those who are fined probably should have tackled the law by being vocal about it, raising the issues and awareness to change the law.

I'm just trying to point out the cases where the State and the law back you into a corner where you're basically damned if you do, damned if you don't and indebted to the state either way. There are so many people that get caught up in ridiculous situations like that drivers license thing I got stuck with. It's probably not intentional, but once the laws are made no one in power cares and they're hard (if not impossible) to repeal, they just see dollar signs and don't consider the other laws that are in conflict, how they may be ruining people's lives, or even costing the State more money in the long run. Having lived through a few of these types of situations and seen the absurdity has made me quite vocal against State intervention in our private lives.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-25-2011, 12:36 PM Reply   
Same thing happened to my wife at the DMV. We had old DL, SS card, Marriage license, Birth Certificate, and mail w/ address. They didn't like the marriage certificate. Even though the SS card and the old DL had her married name. Fortunately in Florida they gave her a 60 day extension.

Still it's kind of ridiculous that the govt thinks after all these years that suddenly we're much safer if they make us jump through hoops like trained monkeys. A nice debt ceiling and a lot of paper pushers on the unemployment line sounds pretty good right now.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-26-2011, 6:11 AM Reply   
Cops have quotas to maintain especially water cops . Its all about the money. Its just easier to nail the good people with money than to go after the bad people that will cost the state to prosecute and jail. The cops aren't there to protect you they just want your money.
Old    Derek (blatantblunts)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-26-2011, 9:57 AM Reply   
i don't think anyone could have explained it better than Cory D... It's just frustrating when a cop has his power trip and can't wait to write you up for a broken taillight just so he can get his fix. We are the ones paying his salary through taxes, the least he could do is pay us a little respect and maybe just listen to us for 10 seconds while we explain our situation.

and I will agree, while most cops suck there definitely are some cool ones! I was pulled over a few years ago coming back from the lake because my taillight was out, and when I asked him why I had been pulled over, he said that my light was out, but he really felt compelled to pull me over because he saw me towing my Malibu and wanted to check it out because he was a wakeboarder himself. If only all cops were wakeboarders. heck he's probably reading this thread right now.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-26-2011, 12:18 PM Reply   
Another example of insane laws harming innocent people over victimless "crimes". I tow with an '86 F-250. It originally has a 351w/C6 driveline. It sucked for pulling my boat. So I found a 460 from another '86 Ford truck, complete with all emissions equipment, and a ZF5 (manual overdrive) trans from a newer F-350. Before rebuilding the engine into a torque monster I figured since I have all the emissions stuff let me make it legal so it'll pass smog.

I called the DMV and talked to the people at the inspection station, telling them I was swapping a bigger engine engine into my truck for towing and could build it with all the smog equipment to pass emissions. I asked if I kept all the emissions stuff, built it mild so it would pass the sniffer if they would test it like it came from Ford with a big block since it was a factory option and I had all the correct emissions stuff for that year. They said no, when they looked under the hood and saw a different engine than the VIN said, automatic fail. I asked if I had the smog stuff if they would stick it and just sniff it to small block emissions, since i know I could make it pass though it would run like crap. They wouldn't do that either.

So I built my engine exactly how I wanted. It makes more power and gets more MPG than it would with smog equipment. I'm sure it pollutes more, but if I gamble on a fine every time I drive it I may as well build it how I want so it tows nice.

I've been stopped a few times in the past couple years for no inspection. I explain the story to the cop each time and I've been fined a few times and let go a few times which has averaged out to one fine per year. I make sure I never spend any money at the businesses in the towns that fine me. They can get my money one way or another, but not both. I never complain or make a big deal about the $180 fine, since I'm knowingly violating the law, but I do write a letter to the chief of police and the mayor in whatever town it happens to let them know I will not spend money in their town. Don't know if they care, but at least I've done my part to speak out against crazy laws.

I think emissions laws are ridiculous for a number of reasons that I won't get into here unless anyone wants to, but if the laws make sense and are enforced reasonably I'll play along and comply. If not, I'll gamble and pay the hidden tax without fuss.

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