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Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-19-2011, 9:25 PM Reply   
I could go on for many paragraphs about my boat search, but I'll make it real short; I have a serious lack of space.

My question is what is the smallest v drive out there that is a decent towboat? (Within the last 10 years or so) I have looked a bit at the Mastercraft 205v (Xstar, X2, X1), but other than that there doesnt seem to be a lot, plus its still over 20'. Is there anything under 20'?

I know some of you also have some ties to manufacturers, are there any plans to build a smaller boat? I can't possibly be the only person that because of garage space and towing capacity wants a smaller v drive tow boat.

I would just deal with direct drive and buy an old Nautique 2001 and save a bunch of money, but the wooden stringers and floors is not something I want to deal with. I have seen a v drive conversion on a 2001, and I even contacted Standard boats about doing one. I don't think they are around anymore though, I never heard back.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-19-2011, 9:54 PM Reply   
What about the new nautique 200?
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-19-2011, 10:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by newwhit View Post
What about the new nautique 200?
Nautiques are probably my favorite boats, but I cannot pull the trigger on a compromise boat when I am quoted 93k. (Before taxes, after adding in trailer and a supposed 15% discount on the boat) Plus I still am not completely sold on the lines of the transom. (Assuming I could get one for a reasonable price)

Good recommendation though. Still curious to see if anything has or will exist under 20'.
Old    Brett Russell (smsbrett)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-19-2011, 10:03 PM Reply   
Agreed on the 200. It is a sweet boat and exactly 20 feet. Same goes for the new(er) X2. If you are looking used, probably won't find too many 200's since they are so new, but you could definitely find some few-year-old X2s.

I love my X2... can't say enough good about it.
Old    Pat O (pwo)      Join Date: Oct 2009       06-20-2011, 6:08 AM Reply   
The 2009 and newer Moomba Outback Vs are just under 20' (or basically 20', but under enough to go on water with a 20' size restriction).
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       06-20-2011, 6:59 AM Reply   
The Tige RZR and R20 are exactly 20'. If looking used look for a Tige 20V
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       06-20-2011, 7:16 AM Reply   
The forked bow X2s are crazy roomy for their 20' length. I've spent some time in an '07 and it's just about as roomy as my '00 230 VRS (23'). I've got 3 more feet and only USCG rated for one more person (11 vs 12). The engine compartment is much more compact on the X2 even though it's the same size engine as mine and the forked bow gives it more usable space in front of the windshield.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-20-2011, 7:23 AM Reply   
Check out an Axis A20. Those boats make killer wakes. I have 2 friends who own them.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-20-2011, 8:06 AM Reply   
Have you looked at the Supra 20SSV? They don't feel like a 20' boat and still have tons of storage and are very easily garaged. They started making them in 06' so not sure your budget, but I have seen some out there for a good deal. If not, the Malibu VTX is very garage friendly along with the X2. What is your budget?
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       06-20-2011, 8:17 AM Reply   
This is obvious, but get a swing tongue on the trailer. My trailer is shorter than the boat with the tongue swung shut.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-20-2011, 8:32 AM Reply   
The two boats at 20ft that I think are killer are the A20 by Axis. If you want something with bling and a great wake the Tige RZR is freaking sweet! Probably one of those two boats will be my next. I have a 205v. I do LOVE my boat but its small inside. I would demo both those boats. On the plus if you buy the RZR you get all the general maintenance free for 3 years as well as the warranty. Both boats have plug n play ballast systems. I would buy a 205v over the current X2.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-20-2011, 9:01 AM Reply   
All great suggesions guys, thanks!

I guess no true 18' or 19' boat though, right?

Garage space is one part, and the swing tongue definately helps there. But it doesnt help with the width. Another area is weight, unfortunately I am stuck right now with 10 year old Jeep GC, and I would like to keep the strain on it low.

If a sub 20' boat doesnt exist, I can just keep bumming rides until I upgrade the tow vehicle and save some cash to get an 08+ SAN 210. I was just trying to find a small v drive to play around with until then.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-20-2011, 9:26 AM Reply   
How much length do you really have in your garage? The problem I see with a lot of the suggestions is those boats have wedges or trim tabs on the back that make them longer then 20'. How about a Sanger V210. Yes they are over 20'. 20'8" to be exact but the boat doesn't have a trim tab. With the platform off and the tongue folded in or removed it can't be more then 21' overall. it is also a skinny vdrive for todays standards and is light. Other nice things is the boat will throw a really, really good wake with 1500-2000 pounds and be far more efficient then anything else out there. You can also find late 90's up to mid/late 2000's for 15-25k.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-20-2011, 10:56 AM Reply   
You can drop the wedge and reduce the rear space requrement by removing the platform and swinging the tongue in on the trailer. The A20 fits fine in a standard garage.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-20-2011, 4:56 PM Reply   
You could make me a offer on my vdrive in the classifieds.
19 foot and rides all day on minimal gas.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-20-2011, 5:08 PM Reply   
Maristar 200VRS, later 90's models have the built in platform, so they're shorter. Considering an inboard will broaden your options, and adding a swing down platform would help, and there's plenty of options of older inboards without wood in them.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-20-2011, 9:12 PM Reply   
how about the 90's ski challenger's?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-20-2011, 9:34 PM Reply   
They are 21 feet I think. I owned a 1996 ski challenger and it was a great boat. Any marinas in your area? I don't have a big enough garage so I put my in the marina during the summer and put it at a buddies large shop during the winter. What's your budget?
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-20-2011, 10:35 PM Reply   
205V or 03-06 SAN would certainly be your best bet if wake is king, second tier would be VTX or A20 if you can deal with the width. X2 is a great boat but a strange wake that isn't for everyone.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-21-2011, 7:32 AM Reply   
I LOVE the wake behind a 205V (I owned an '02 XStar and one of my best friends has a 1999 205v that we ride behind weekly), but the wake behind the A20 is every bit as good as the 205v wake.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-21-2011, 8:17 AM Reply   
Guys, thanks a bunch for the responses. I continue to be impressed with the willingness to help on this site. I will try to address some of your comments...

Length of the garage is 22 feet. With a swing tongue, pretty much anything under 22' will fit. With a shorter boat though, I do not have to take down the shelving in the back of the garage, remove the swim platform, etc.

I was looking at first gen SANs for a while, but after looking at them in person and reading that some owners were seeing 5500+ lbs at the scales (even though dry weight is only listed at 3400 lbs, add the appropriate weight for trailer gas & gear and it still should fall well short of 5500+), I am thinking I might want something a bit smaller for a year or two to get back into the fun of trailer boating.

As far as a budget, I was looking to keep it under 40k. Before deciding on that number, I worked with Tige directly on a loaded R20; but after looking at the payments it was a bit more than I wanted to spend each month. The Axis is an option, but there again I can't imagine the payments are going to be any less. Plus, the local dealer for Axis is not my favorite. When someone quotes you two total prices, one with the low finance rate and one with the higher finance rate; that doesn't help me think I am getting a fair deal. (Plus some other past run-ins have not been too pleasant) It's a shame, because the more I look at the A20 the more I like it.

I guess the answer to the original question is a sub 20' v drive doesn't exist. Am I crazy or might there be a market there? I will continue to browse using everyone's suggestions, thanks again for the help!
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       06-21-2011, 8:31 AM Reply   
If you don't have a boat with trim tabs/wake plate/surf tabs (i.e. any significant protrusion from the transom below the platform) you can get folding swim platform brackets. These allow the swim platform to swing down and hang vertically when a pin is removed from each side. OJ (The prop people) makes some aftermarket ones and some boats come with them from the factory. This would save a bit of effort when garaging it. I'd like to have some since I remove my platform each time I put mine in the carport but they are like $300 or so and I'm willing to do quite a bit of platform removing for that amount of money.

As someone else mentioned the older MariStar line (Pre '98ish?) had a "euro" swim platform. Meaning it was part of the hull itself and included in the nominal length of the boat. So, that generation of Maristar 200 would effectively be the 18' V-drive that you're talking about because the overall length with the platform would be about 2 ft shorter than a "normal" 20' boat with a platform that extends off of the back.

http://www.mastercraft.com/market/sh...p?product=3042
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-21-2011, 8:31 AM Reply   
http://vimeo.com/16598092 (password axisa20)

If you want to see how easy it is to get an A20 in the garage...
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-21-2011, 8:32 AM Reply   
Oh, and shoot me some info on where you are and who your local dealer is and I'll see if there is anything I can do to help. Also, have you checked rates at your local credit unions? My friend got like 3.99% on a 10 year loan on his A20 a few months back.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-21-2011, 9:40 AM Reply   
Jesus Chat - are you ****ing sponsored by Axis this year? You're as bad as you were the past 3 years with the Natique stuff..
Old    Austin (austin)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-21-2011, 9:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
You can drop the wedge and reduce the rear space requrement by removing the platform and swinging the tongue in on the trailer. The A20 fits fine in a standard garage.
By standard garage, do you mean exactly 20'?

My garage is EXACTLY 20'0" from wall to door. Most nominally 20' boats actually wind up being a few inches over even without the swim platform, but even a boat that was exactly 20' wouldn't really fit in my garage. I would have to remove anything that's on the back, push the transom flat up against the wall, and the garage door would still probably scrape the nose. Additionally my workbench, cabinets, and tools are on the opposite side of the garage from the door into the house, so I kind of need to be able to walk around the boat.

Being able to store a boat in the garage would be awesome in terms of convenience, cost savings, protection, and peace of mind, but I don't think I could reasonably get by with storing any boat over 18.5' in my garage.

I've toyed around with the the thought of trying diagonal, but my garage is bare minimum width as well as length. Due to the width of the stern of a boat, you can't really get it all the way back in the corner, so the added length ends up not being more than a foot or two. Plus you have to push it into the garage by hand and can't park a car in the garage in addition to the inconveniences of having to remove/install swim platform etc. every time and possibly not being able to walk around to the other side of the garage easily or at all. The cons start to pile up to where even if you could theoretically do it, it might just not be worth it.

I know some people on this forum store boats in garages diagonally. Is it easy to push it in manually? Can you do it by yourself?

Last edited by austin; 06-21-2011 at 9:50 AM.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       06-21-2011, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin View Post
Is it easy to push it in manually? Can you do it by yourself?
Since we're talking about 20' boats most probably won't have a tandem axle but some do. If it's a tandem axle trailer forget about moving it yourself unless it's in a straight line on level ground without additional equipment like jacks with casters on them.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-21-2011, 11:00 AM Reply   
Austin, an A20 may not quite work for you then. With the platform removed, wedge down, and the trailer tongue swung in, an A20 needs exactly 20 feet 10 inches. I don't have the width measurements with me.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-21-2011, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin View Post
I know some people on this forum store boats in garages diagonally. Is it easy to push it in manually? Can you do it by yourself?
I store mine in a 3 car garage diagonally. Is it easy, no, but it's doable. Mine has a tandem axel trailer and we basically chalk one tire and push it to the side we want. Also keep in mind you will need more space for a pickle fork bow than you will a traditional.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-21-2011, 11:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Guys, thanks a bunch for the responses. I continue to be impressed with the willingness to help on this site. I will try to address some of your comments...

Length of the garage is 22 feet. With a swing tongue, pretty much anything under 22' will fit. With a shorter boat though, I do not have to take down the shelving in the back of the garage, remove the swim platform, etc.

I was looking at first gen SANs for a while, but after looking at them in person and reading that some owners were seeing 5500+ lbs at the scales (even though dry weight is only listed at 3400 lbs, add the appropriate weight for trailer gas & gear and it still should fall well short of 5500+), I am thinking I might want something a bit smaller for a year or two to get back into the fun of trailer boating.

As far as a budget, I was looking to keep it under 40k. Before deciding on that number, I worked with Tige directly on a loaded R20; but after looking at the payments it was a bit more than I wanted to spend each month. The Axis is an option, but there again I can't imagine the payments are going to be any less. Plus, the local dealer for Axis is not my favorite. When someone quotes you two total prices, one with the low finance rate and one with the higher finance rate; that doesn't help me think I am getting a fair deal. (Plus some other past run-ins have not been too pleasant) It's a shame, because the more I look at the A20 the more I like it.

I guess the answer to the original question is a sub 20' v drive doesn't exist. Am I crazy or might there be a market there? I will continue to browse using everyone's suggestions, thanks again for the help!
In answer, yes there needs to be a boat that fits your needs, because there are plenty of people in similar situations. However I would say that the market is not large enough to make it worth any manufacturer's time and investment. Most people in your situation will not be as picky, and just get a boat that fits. Or find separate storage.

My suggestion, get a 98 MC Prostar 190, tower, ballast, you'd be surprised. And you can get a great deal on it because slalom skiers hate that year on that boat, the wakes are too big.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-21-2011, 8:00 PM Reply   
The outback V i think is a solid 20ft'r. However if you are looking sub 20 a prostar 197 with a tower puts out great wake and will keep you tow weight down for sure as will a sport nauty, but the sports are a tad longer yet narrow.
Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-22-2011, 11:37 AM Reply   
Newer 08-10' Centurion Falcon V. 20', 102" beam. The trailer swing is behind the tip so no extra trailer arm. The wakeplate is going to add 10" off the back is the only issue. But thought you said exactly 22' to work with?

Hard to find but should be in the $30's unless you find a new leftover for a few extra k.

I assume you have an 8' door cause I have a 7' and I'm about 3" shy of clearing it so that was my drawback.
Old    Jason B (boomboom)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-22-2011, 12:36 PM Reply   
Why not just bump out a section of the back wall a few feet for clearance. I know several people who have done this. Cost is minimal and it solves the problem.
Old    Austin (austin)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-23-2011, 1:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomboom View Post
Why not just bump out a section of the back wall a few feet for clearance. I know several people who have done this. Cost is minimal and it solves the problem.
In my case, my living room is on the other side of the back wall. I have thought about trying to extend the entire garage on the front side, but with the direction of the gable it would be pretty difficult/expensive.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-23-2011, 1:33 PM Reply   
just pay to store it somewhere else.

we rented a slip for $800 a summer and paid $300 for the winter to store it in a heated unit.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-23-2011, 5:50 PM Reply   
Everyone says theres a market for a small boat but most of the people saying it have massive boats.Americans are all about the biggest baddest thing they can get there hands on and even the small boats are entended to be as big as possible.Ill admit I have several old cadillacs so I am not going to be a hipocrite but the small inboard market is a very small nitch.I predict they will not make a boat under twenty till gas holds at over five dollars.Then the big boats will meet there demise much like the auto industry of the seventies.
Everything being marketed as small now is intended to serve a lower price bracket not serve someone who actually wants a smaller boat.

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