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Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 11:10 AM Reply   
Here is a rundown of what is going on, and my choices -

Last winter decided to maybe upgrade for our 95' Supersport for the following reasons:
**Boat is getting too small for us - usually out with 6+ people and the narrow beam gets tight
**Buddy I am in 50/50 with has sort of retired from wakeboarding and prefers surfing/cruising/lounging (along with 5 of the others who are often in the boat) I'm really the last "wakeboarder" using this boat
** I have a legit job now and have more money that I can invest to this
** Would like perfect pass and a more simple ballast system than we currently have

So we're looking at the following boat -
2001 Wakesetter VLX - boat is SPOTLESS! Interior was just redone, ballast has all been redone (750s rear - not sure on ### in ski locker, and 700 bow) - also has power wedge added - star gazer - 4 amps, 2 subs, 6 tower speakers, board racks, lights (All of it done very very well) - The boat has been babied.

Dealer is currently asking 30k for it, which I don't think it is worth despite the condition.... so assuming we can get that price down a bit.... can anyone answer the following:


01' VLX vs. Super Air surfability ? How do they compare
01' VLX vs. Super Air size -- both are 21' but will the extra beam add that much room - or should I hold out for a 23 ft boat?
01' VLX vs. Super Air wakeboard wake - I know Super Air well, steep and firm.... what are that year VLXs like, only have ridden the newer style hull

Any other opinions would be great, thanks!

Here are some photos of the VLX




Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 11:20 AM Reply   
Despite the title the supersport is a 1995 --- oops!
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-12-2011, 11:33 AM Reply   
1. Not much of a surfer. But I know it throws a decent wave.
2. Size wise it is definitely bigger but not astronomically so. Personally I prefer a 21' for ease of sinking.
3. Definitely different wake. I love the SAN wake but think the VLX is more chargeable. With the Wedge and a full load the wake is very good and plenty poppy. Nothing but an Epic will match that Super Air punt. Still has a defined lip. That VLX is one of my favorites.

In regards to the pricing, that is excessive. My buddy recently sold a loaded 05 V-Ride that had 300 hours and was completely spotless for about $31k. I think there are much better deals to be had. What caused the interior to be replaced? Why was the ballast replaced? If I were buying a used boat, i'd prefer one that hadn't been run with max ballast for it's entire life. Thats just me.
Old    Matthew Melvin (melvinator)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-12-2011, 11:45 AM Reply   
i have a 96 vlx which is the same hull as the 01 vlx. Been a while since I surfed behind a 210, but i think the surf wakes will be good on both, i can surf both side of my bu with no problem. Seems like the nautique surf wake was shorter. I can surf further back on my bu. we didn't spend a ton of time setting up the surf wake on the nauitque so I am no expert and not knocking the 210 surf wake at all! I think the wedge helps clean up the prop wash to make both sides more surfable. My friend has a bu also and we never weight one side or drive in circles.

A bit more room in the malibu I think. Mine does not have the wrap around seating and I LOVE THAT IT DOESN'T! More floor space to walk around and can still seat 7-8 very comfortably. Part of the reason I keep my boat, since all the new boats have wrap around seating. Great for partying and families though. I wakeboard daily with only 3-4 people in the boat and don't need the room.

I hate the old 210 wake because I am almost 36 years old with bad knees and casing a nautique wake kills my joints. I love the long landing transitions of my bu. I prefer a 3-stage board on the bu wake and a continous on the nautique.

I looked at a 1995 supersport back in 2001 and the quality is outstanding.

I have lots of experience on both wakes so bring on the questions.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 11:55 AM Reply   
I guess try and put yourself in my/my buddies shoes here and let me know what you would do:

95 Supersport -650 hrs - interior is getting rough - exterior is great - tower, speakers, board racks - semi auto ballast (NOT fully auto) of about 2000 lbs - no cruise control - not a great surf wake - Great wakeboard wake - and best of all ** IT IS PAID FOR **

or (assuming we can sell ours - which I posted a while ago to get a feel for the market - shouldn't be a problem)

01' VLX - 600 hrs - spotless in and out - auto wedge + fully auto ballast - star gazer PP - tower - speakers - racks - lights - lightly larger (NOT FULL WRAP SEATING) but will costs us each about 3k more ----

So there is about a 6k bump in price to get a boat with the following:
6 years newer
same hours
better ballast / wedge
star gazer
better shape in/out
better stereo


So I guess just wondering is it worth it for us to pay the 6k for this boat - or apply 6k to ours (or save it for another boat later).


My two biggest concerns are:
Will I like the wake coming from a 210?
will the extra beam add the room we are looking for?
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-12-2011, 1:04 PM Reply   
I gotta say..... The Super Sport is a great boat, but for me the VLX is where it's at. I rode on that gen hull a bunch of times and loved the wake. Very first gen X-star ish. Not as steep as a Nautique and has longer transitions. Maybe I'm just getting old, but Super's make my knees hurt.

Interior size is what you'd expect. It's a bit wider and it shows. Nothing that drastic.

Can't really go wrong either way. $31k is a lot of coin for that boat. I'd expect in the mid to high $20k's.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 1:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
$31k is a lot of coin for that boat.
Thats what I'm thinking.... they seem pretty firm at 29k.... it has a lot of add-ons and is really clean, but any of the additions I can do myself, for cheaper.... just the fact it is already done is nice.

Quote:
It's a bit wider and it shows. Nothing that drastic.
Thats what worries me, that is our biggest push to get something new is the size.... I would hate to be disappointed with it all
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-12-2011, 1:24 PM Reply   
Nick, where are you getting 6k difference? Is your boat worth 20k and you think you could get the VLX for 26 or so? I would think the total difference in those 2 boats would be about 10k. Just my guess though. If it was me and I could upgrade from an older Super sport to the vlx you are describing for 6k it would be a no brainer for me. The boat will be bigger(not a ton), plusher(especially with new interior), has a GPS Cruise, better ballast, a power wedge(that is really nice for an older boat like that), better stereo ,etc... It really sounds like the previous owner did some really nice things on that boat. It sounds 100% setup ready to go. Like others I think that 31 is high but not crazy high with all the add ons and new stuff on the boat. I wouldn't feel bad at all paying around 27 or so for it.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-12-2011, 1:26 PM Reply   
Despite the absolutely hideous tower on this thing, I'd go this route. Whats a few thousand bucks?

http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=27131

It has all you want, newer, bigger, good wake and it only has 190 hours.



This one also fits the bill, few more hours, few more accessories, few more dollars.

http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=28588
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-12-2011, 1:27 PM Reply   
I'd keep looking man.. It's 10 years old, doesn't offer anymore "seating" only more width and the wakes are stellar on both boats..

The increase in width won't be worth the extra coin - find somethign that is a lot wider or potentialy 22-23' so youre both happy.

I think there was an MB or a Supreme listed on CL in MPLS just recently for like $35k that was a few years old. I'd rather spend an extra $5k on that than on the 01' Setter
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 1:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
ick, where are you getting 6k difference? Is your boat worth 20k and you think you could get the VLX for 26 or so?
I posted my initial costs without knowing what the dealer wanted, just estimated off other similar VLXs... and since the post they have gotten back to me with their price .... 29k which seems to be a bottom line for them... and honestly I think its fair and it won't sit that long at that price.

I figured 20k for ours and now knowing this VLX is ~29k it would be closer to 10k after taxes etc etc.... but found out my brother may throw in 3k to the cause (he uses the boat more than anyone anways- about time he pitches in) which would take me back to my original idea of my buddy and I splitting ~6k.

The biggest hurdle for me is convincing the fiance' that this 3-5k I'm dumping in shouldn't go to the wedding....
The co-owner with me just size size size and surf potential
** The size worries me though because our boat lift a shorestation with a 4k limit and 23 ft. canopy - so the boat would fit but would really be pushing it for coverage and weight (once you add gear etc etc)

@Stephan - the Iowa one seems okay and isn't tooo far away, but we sort of set the limit @ 30k and really don't want to budge from that, because if we bump to 35k for this or that, then wants another 2k for this boat, again and again..... I usually make my checklist of what I want, set my price and find it or don't, rarely try and force anything outside of my parameters.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-12-2011, 1:47 PM Reply   
It won't produce a monster Stanley Wheelhouse tsunami, but you can get a fun surfable wave with weight and the wedge. I'd love to see how they have the power wedge set up on that boat.

To make a big leap in size, though, I think you'd need to go to an 05+ VLX.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 1:50 PM Reply   
Best I can do on the wedge
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-12-2011, 2:20 PM Reply   
Wont be the mackin' wakeboard wake you're looking for - but if your'e the ONLY rider in the group - seems logical that you could give up on that a little bit in hopes that the whole group is happy with the size, price, surf wake, etc..

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...377073117.html

and it's local (well, local enough)
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-12-2011, 2:21 PM Reply   
This would be the same as your 01' you're looking at - maybe you like the look of this one better

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/da...376734736.html
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 2:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
maybe you like the look of this one better
I'm pretty not picky on looks as long as it delivers what we're looking for.... where the one I posted has pretty much everything but extra size
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-12-2011, 4:57 PM Reply   
29k for that seems pretty high, and I would not expect it to fly off the lot. I'd keep looking. I personally care more about hours than age on these things, particularly when you're talking about tired and true hulls. That being said, if your interior is starting to go on the SS, you could be looking at some significant expense on that in the near future.
Old    Nick in the TC (nick_in_ssp)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-12-2011, 5:03 PM Reply   
I love the VLK's. They put out the best wake of any boat made.
Old    CJ Meert (Meert)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-12-2011, 5:07 PM Reply   
Nick, what's up man it's CJ from Tampa, now Reno. My Supra is still in Tampa and I would love to sell it. It's an 02 SSV 22. Let me know if you are interested and I can send you some pics.
Old    Scott (chexi)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-12-2011, 7:32 PM Reply   
I am not trying to burst any bubbles here, but you may want to re-assess your assumptions on your 95 SS. A 95 SS with a rough interior is going to have a hard time moving in most markets at $20k right now. I check nautique listings every day (looking for a friend), and I'm seeing 2000-2001 SANs going for 20 - 21k (just bought my 2000 SAN for 21k... and now I'm seeing others in that range). I guy posted his 95 SS with under 300 hours on planet nautique and craigslist a few weeks ago at 16k and got zero bites. A few pieces of his vinyl needed some work, but for the most part it was in decent shape. Granted, he had no tower, but it was a GT-40 and had a dual axle trailer and good colors. He had to lower his price to $14,900 before it sold, and I don't know if he discounted further.

I'm only saying this so you don't go and buy another boat before you sell yours only to find out you can't get close to what you thought, so I would recommend selling first if you decide on a new boat. I do still see a fair amount of older nautiques (even DD sports and airs) with asking prices in the high 20's, but those are dream prices and those boats are sitting. I'm also not sure what market you are in, and in the NE and Midwest you will get a few k more, but on the coasts and in the South, I think 20k is aggressive.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 7:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
I would recommend selling first if you decide on a new boat.
We would absolutely wait until ours sold. I have had two offers over 20k for the boat already - we just didn't sell because we had no replacement. From my initial posting on only inboards with it priced at 18.5k I have a list of 35 people to email back if it goes up for sale for real.... I'm not to worried about moving ours.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 7:39 PM Reply   
....also, after talking to the other owner today, .... we're just hanging onto the 210 for this summer. To much hassle and headache to buy/sell in such a small time window. So if anyone wants an older 210 come October let me know!

I think we'll just hang out and wait for a 23ft. LSV/XLV/Epic in a year or two.... and then if we wait a year or two can maybe add a few thousand to the budget.
Old    Scott (chexi)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-12-2011, 10:43 PM Reply   
Cool. Geography can be a huge factor, and it sounds like you might have it on your side with that many interested parties. I feel bad for my friends back in Wisconsin who have to pay thousands more for the same boats and have a lot fewer to pick from unless they want to drive thousands of miles.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-12-2011, 11:10 PM Reply   
Its crazy how slim the picins are here.

We searched for a long time to find a used v-drive older than 2000 a few years ago.... and even still they are rare around here. Good for us since wakeboarding is only getting bigger.

Older supersports/205v/v210/ etc etc have hit a nice niche little market where they really don't drop much after a certain point 15-20k depending options.... its crazy like that. If someone wants a v-drive at rock bottom price it isn't far off getting something far newer for not a huge % more....

Like you said though, location has a lot to do with it.

I posted to onlyinboards to feel out the market and within 2 weeks had over 50 emails, probably like 20+ calls for the boat.... of those 50% or more were willing to pay full asking and maybe 10% offered more
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-13-2011, 5:13 AM Reply   
of course you had 50 emails and 20 calls, OIB kicks a**!
Old    Clay (cla10beck)      Join Date: Dec 2007       05-13-2011, 6:23 AM Reply   
I know your decision has already been made, but I thought the 2001 VLX was on the diamond hull, not the wake hull like every other year until 2004. Or the Wakesetter VLX was on the wake hull, and the Sunsetter VLX was on the diamond hull. If anybody is in the market for that year, make sure to double check the hull.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-13-2011, 12:26 PM Reply   
Clay, like you finished your thought with the wakesetter VLX is on the Wake hull no matter what year I believe until you get to the newer boats. The 2001 Sunsetter VLX is on the Diamond hull. Previous Sunsetter VLXs were on the wake hull.
Old    Stan Tanner (sbt3)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-17-2011, 4:52 PM Reply   
Nick if you want a guy to redo your interior let me know. I know a guy in Hartford WI that redid mine pretty cheap. Under 300 for the sun deck and upper portion of the back seat. He also redid all my seat bottoms about 4 years ago but I can't remember the price and they are holding up really nicely. I know he just did my buddies whole closed bow ski boat for less than 600. You have to take it all out and take it to him though.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-18-2011, 3:33 PM Reply   
"The co-owner with me just size size size and surf potential"
I think you'd need to go to an 05+ VLX, ---> X10
also, get the boat at the end of the season when boats are the cheapest

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