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Old    SamIngram            05-05-2011, 1:35 PM Reply   
I was reading one of the Mises Daily Articles and one of today's articles is Why Everything Is Dirtier. I have never heard of trisodium phosphate (TSP) let alone know about why the Federal Government banned it from cleaners. Apparently you can get this stuff at the local hardware store. I'm headed to Ace tonight and am going to pick some up. I'm going to try cleaning my boat with some of it added to the soap. I'll try it in my laundry too. Does anyone know about this stuff?

Is this another case of the government banning something with the unintended consequence of actually making the problem they are trying to solve worse?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-05-2011, 1:38 PM Reply   
I use TSP to wash the walls before painting. I guess they are trying to eliminate phosphates because it pollutes the water. It's like a fertilizer for plants and algae.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-05-2011, 1:43 PM Reply   
I've never tried putting it in the laundry. I noticed in that article they said the same thing about fertilizing.
Old    SamIngram            05-05-2011, 1:47 PM Reply   
Does it pollute water or just make algae grow? I know that I probably use more soap today than I did ten years ago. Does my increased usage of soap pollute the water with other chemicals? Since I need more soap to do the same job isn't that less efficient? Don't I burn more net energy through my increased usage of crappy soap? Doesn't this increased usage pollute the environment just as much? I don't know, I'm asking...
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-05-2011, 2:32 PM Reply   
It fertilizes the plants. This can lead to a dead lake. The plants die and instead of a sandy bottom it builds up a layer of muck which eventually kills the lake. They have several ways to combat this. One is to use carp to eat the plants. Another is to drain the lake and dry the lake bottom, then fill it (or let it fill itself) back up. It is a serious problem in Florida lakes, but I couldn't tell you if phosphates from detergent are significant. They release treated water into the environment but I don't think they remove phosphates, so it's conceivable that it is a real problem.

Maybe I just don't care if my clothes are dingy but I use the el cheapo stuff bought by the bucket from Sams Club and I'm happy. I could try throwing a little TSP in the next time but I doubt I'd know the difference. Maybe I'll try it with the whites.
Old    SamIngram            05-05-2011, 3:07 PM Reply   
BTW, the author of that article has interesting book out too; Bourbon for Breakfast. I found it to be thought provoking and interesting... the ebook or pdf is free.
Old    Scott (magicr)      Join Date: May 2004       05-05-2011, 3:41 PM Reply   
TSP is also great for cleaning windows, (I used to have my own window cleaning business, and that's all I used). Also as John said, great for cleaning walls, I used to do fire restoration work and it was great for removing oily smoke residue.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       05-05-2011, 5:23 PM Reply   
i second windows and prepping walls for paint.
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-05-2011, 10:59 PM Reply   
Nitrogen and phospates cause pate to becoe hypoxic(low disolved oxygen). Alge grows, feeder fish die and the ecosystem crashes. I will take life a little bit dirtier. Thats just me. I bet it cleans well though. Asbestos is a great insulator, but.....
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-06-2011, 7:40 AM Reply   
Is that why my bad-ass dishwasher can't get my dishes clean? impotent soap? I was just bitchin' about this to my wife this morning. Grabbed a bowl for cereal and didn't need the cereal, because there was still food in it after the dishwasher "cleaned" it.
Old    SamIngram            05-06-2011, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1 View Post
Nitrogen and phospates cause pate to becoe hypoxic(low disolved oxygen). Alge grows, feeder fish die and the ecosystem crashes. I will take life a little bit dirtier. Thats just me. I bet it cleans well though. Asbestos is a great insulator, but.....
Can you show me some data? What effect does all the extra soap that I am using have on the environment? It comes in plastic bottles and I supposedly use twice as much.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       05-06-2011, 9:27 AM Reply   
****ing hippies are now causing my laundry to be sub-par.

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