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Old    Dan Noonan (depswa)      Join Date: Nov 2000       04-18-2011, 12:42 PM Reply   


I know Fulltilt won't let you pull out your money, but it looks like Stars did...but we'll see...If you have any balances on these sites...you may wanna try to pull it out!

It is a gloomy time for US Online Poker Players...glad I have more than enough live games to play!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...wn-by-fbi.html

Oh..and for those of you that like to play online, but can't now...I suggest you check out Meetup.com

I am a member of Burbank Poker Club, L.A. Rounders, Los Angeles Poker Group, Sherman Oaks Poker Group, Greater Sacramento Area Poker (for when I visit Family) and one or two more...There are never shortages of games. Check out the groups in your city...I love live games so much more than online! You actually get to read your opponents other than just trying to read betting patterns.
Old    matt moss (mossy44)      Join Date: Oct 2001       04-18-2011, 1:17 PM Reply   
a buddy of mine plays on 2 of those sites and he did it for a living. He is not sure what he is going to do at this point considering that the majority of the money he has is tied up in those 2 accounts. He takes money out to live on, but his excuse of not taking more and more often was that he needed a big bankroll to play as much as he was playing. One bad week is a lot of money.
Old    Dan Noonan (depswa)      Join Date: Nov 2000       04-18-2011, 1:24 PM Reply   
Yea...I have a friend that has $20K he can't get out...Not fun!
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-19-2011, 3:13 AM Reply   
"Banks tricked out of money" ???? Would those be the same banks that were run like casinos, and rewarded with millions of peoples hard earned tax money when their gambles failed???

Only reason the government is so nose out of joint here is that they are not getting their cut. Or are they trying to "protect" us from ourselves? Always target the easy things while the massive problems that beset the Western world careen wildly, unchecked and uncontrolled.

BTW the FT site is still up and running in the UK. It's strange how that works because the UK's gmbling/casino laws are much stricter than the US yet these online sites run with impunity. Probably because government ministers have got their snouts so deeply buried in the trough they don't come up long enough to realise they're not getting their share.

Interesting to see if the sites remain open in Europe.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-19-2011, 3:22 AM Reply   
"These defendants concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, alternately tricking some U.S. banks and effectively bribing others to assure the continued flow of billions in illegal gambling profits,” Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney in Manhattan, said in a statement

I think this should read - "These banks concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, playing fast and loose with peoples money, alternately tricking some Western Governments and effectively bribing others to ensure the continued flow of billions in tax payers dollars in order for their reckless,irresponsible gambling to continue".
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-20-2011, 5:27 PM Reply   
Maybe I haven't read the right articles, but I've read several about this and can't find any reference whatsoever to anything these online poker companies did wrong. All I can find is that they didn't pay a tax for a gambling license. There's nothing wrong with this. Poker is a game of skill that individuals choose to play fully knowing the risks, fully accepting those risks, and fully accepting the house's fees to play at their site. This is a voluntary act people choose to participate in (just like gay sex, in the other thread). The banks that invested in these companies did so knowing what the companies did, and from what I've read it was quite profitable. I'm assuming these companies had no problem paying their loans as nothing I've read states otherwise. There's no theft, deception or anything at all wrong here so far as I can tell.

I don't see the problem with anything these people and companies have done, at least as from everything I've read. Seems to me the politicians are angry because the country is broke and gambling is an easy way for them to collect more tax moneys from honest people.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-20-2011, 5:35 PM Reply   
Are there other countries that are cracking down on online poker?

So much for living in a 'free' country.

I'd like to hear some more details on what these companies really did wrong. So far it does just sound like our government just wants a nice fat full cut of this money.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-21-2011, 3:08 AM Reply   
Brett & Cory - These sites were outlawed in the US way back when Bush was still president. They had some ridiculous reason but the bottom line was Big Brother couldn't monitor it properly and if they can't monitor it how do they get their share?? So if they can't get their cut nobody is getting any. But now of course they are hot in pursuit of $3b. How is that $3b now government property??

It was my understanding that these guys had moved their operations to Canada. But when the goverment sniffs money the pursuit is relentless. All these sites run completely without restriction in Europe. To my knowledge there has been no attempt to outlaw them.Probably too scared to. People appear to be a hairs breadth away from rioting at any given moment.
Old    Dan Noonan (depswa)      Join Date: Nov 2000       04-21-2011, 11:02 AM Reply   
Basically they are being accused of Money Laundering...In order to process deposits from U.S. Players, they had to set up fake merchant accounts. One time I deposited money into my poker account, the payment reflected a company called World Time Clock on my bank statement? When I saw that, I knew they were headed fro trouble.

Check out the info here... http://www.pokerstarsindicted.com/ex...ars-indictment
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-21-2011, 6:47 PM Reply   
So they have done nothing wrong and infringed on no one's rights. We still have adults consenting to gamble with other adults and pay the house to play at their site. Still a sham so far as I see it. The only party that has done anything wrong or violated anyone's rights in the U.S. government.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-21-2011, 6:50 PM Reply   
^Money laundering is a crime in the US. So I don't know how you say "they have done nothing wrong".
Old    Taylor Jensen (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       04-21-2011, 10:02 PM Reply   
I actually kind of greatfull its gone, now my addiction is over haha. Time to explore the card rooms around town, I liked live games so much better.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-22-2011, 5:49 AM Reply   
It's only laundering to get around a law that restricts our natural rights, to enter into private deals with other consenting adults so long as no one else's rights are violated. So they may well have broken the law, but no one was harmed and they did nothing wrong. Illegal does not equal wrong, immoral or whatever you want to call it.

The only party I see doing anything wrong here, is our government, who is infringing on the rights of these companies to do business, and the rights on these individuals to both collect their money they have tied up with these businesses, and their right do enter into private agreements with other consenting adults.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-22-2011, 8:17 AM Reply   
Cory, so if no one is "harmed", the crime is okay? So if I rob a bank, but no one is injured, that is okay???

Our "natural rights"? Give me an effing break.
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-22-2011, 11:36 AM Reply   
How exactly are they laundering money?? People pay to play and the house gets a cut. If you win and want to withdraw your money you can.As Cory said, agreement between consenting adults. If the government negotiated with these sites they could figure out a way to get their share. Because THAT is what this is about. They want their share!!

You obviously don't play Jeremy so you think this kind of relentless government meddling into peoples lives is OK. Wonder how complacent you would be if the decided to severly curtail wakeboarding or outlaw it altogether??
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       04-22-2011, 1:28 PM Reply   
If you are moving your money (that has already been taxed) off shore, I guess I don't see how that is laundering money. I also don't see How the US has any claim to taxes on money/earnings of foreign assets/earnings. Whatever country they are in should be entitled to it. Money that comes back across should be taxed.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-22-2011, 1:47 PM Reply   
"Basically they are being accused of Money Laundering...In order to process deposits from U.S. Players, they had to set up fake merchant accounts. One time I deposited money into my poker account, the payment reflected a company called World Time Clock on my bank statement? When I saw that, I knew they were headed fro trouble."

Sounds legal to me.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-22-2011, 5:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Cory, so if no one is "harmed", the crime is okay? So if I rob a bank, but no one is injured, that is okay???
If you rob a bank, you have in fact harmed other people and infringed on their rights to their property (they money, which is the fruit of their labor). It has nothing to do with the law or robbing a bank being a crime. You have in fact harmed someone (many people, actually) by robbing a bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Our "natural rights"? Give me an effing break.
Care to elaborate? Do you not feel people are entitled to such things as the fruit of their labor, or to not have their property stolen? Let's hear your thoughts on the matter, I'm listening.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-22-2011, 9:33 PM Reply   
"If you rob a bank, you have in fact harmed other people and infringed on their rights to their property (they money, which is the fruit of their labor)."

If I'm not mistaken, that money backed by the FDIC. They will get that money back.

Look man, you live in the US, you pay taxes, natural rights have zippo to do with it.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-23-2011, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"If you rob a bank, you have in fact harmed other people and infringed on their rights to their property (they money, which is the fruit of their labor)."

If I'm not mistaken, that money backed by the FDIC. They will get that money back.
Who funds the FDIC? Every single one of us. More bank robberies will cost everyone more money. This is like saying why worry about having your boat stolen because it's insured? You think your insurance will stay cheap if your boats keep disappearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Look man, you live in the US, you pay taxes, natural rights have zippo to do with it.
Natural right have a lot to do with it, since many of our natural rights are outlined in our Constitution.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-23-2011, 7:11 PM Reply   
^And the Constitution tells us the government can tax us.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-23-2011, 7:23 PM Reply   
That justifies you robbing a bank how? Because your theft is subsidized by tens of millions of people?
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-24-2011, 6:16 AM Reply   
Nothing justifies me robbing a bank. You made the statement

"It's only laundering to get around a law that restricts our natural rights, to enter into private deals with other consenting adults so long as no one else's rights are violated. So they may well have broken the law, but no one was harmed and they did nothing wrong. Illegal does not equal wrong, immoral or whatever you want to call it."

I made an analogy questioning your reasoning.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-27-2011, 10:05 AM Reply   
I had a couple hundred on PS and 88 on FT. I played for fun mostly but did manage to make a little over the year I've been playing. I much prefer my local live game but not being able to play for an hour whenever I want online kinda sucks.

Government shut them down from operating here because they can't tax it, simple as that. No telling how much in rake every day was being made off US players alone. The banks processing payments were breaking US laws, like it or not.
Old    Dan Noonan (depswa)      Join Date: Nov 2000       04-27-2011, 11:49 AM Reply   
This online poker depression is sure boosting the live games around here! Last night my usual Tuesday Cash Game had 2 full tables...normally there is only 1 with 9-10 Players.

Oh...and BTW... I got a message that we can cash out of Poker Stars now...I submitted mine...It says to wait 48-72hrs to process...then 3-10 days to hit your account after that. We'll see! Last time I did that and got confirmations, they sent me a "Sorry" e-mail saying that the transaction was reversed and my money was back in my Pstars acct. Ugh!

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