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Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 4:43 PM Reply   
I'm getting my boat later next week. Its a 96 bayliner capri 1952 cuddy. I'll attach some pics of the boat below. So far I've ordered a monster tower mxe and will be installing it when the boat gets here. Does anybody have any suggestions for installing the monster tower? also I dont know anything about trimming or adding weight to improve the wake. Also will I want to buy a new prop? if so, what kind/size?
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Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-04-2011, 5:04 PM Reply   
Remove hydro foil (lifts stern)you want to sink it.Add ballast bags.Contact Wakemakers.com they can advise you on how to best set up boat.You can even automate them.Add perfect pass speed control.Trim up 1/3 when underway.How much does the boat weigh?
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-04-2011, 5:06 PM Reply   
Stainless 4 or 5 blade 17 pitch prop.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 5:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowwwflowww View Post
Remove hydro foil (lifts stern)you want to sink it.Add ballast bags.Contact Wakemakers.com they can advise you on how to best set up boat.You can even automate them.Add perfect pass speed control.Trim up 1/3 when underway.How much does the boat weigh?
what is the point of those hydrofoils? you mean the horizontal fins above the prop right? Why are they even on there anyways?
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 5:21 PM Reply   
also do you think i will still need the ballast bags if i plan on riding with 6 people that are all about 140-175lbs?
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 5:22 PM Reply   
will that size prop fit my outboard? or are they all universal?
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-04-2011, 5:25 PM Reply   
To help stability, cavitation ,porpoising holeshot none of which matter as much as sinking the stern.New prop will help with holeshot.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-04-2011, 5:25 PM Reply   
You're probably going to need a bar stool to see over the bow when starting off
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 5:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
You're probably going to need a bar stool to see over the bow when starting off
lol yea or just won't look
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-04-2011, 5:28 PM Reply   
More weight the merrier .How much does boat wegh and what is engine .
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-04-2011, 5:44 PM Reply   
Obviously every boat has a limit to how much weight it can handle hence my questions about boat engine and weight.And remember you probably won't have all 6 0r more people with you every time out.Best be prepared with bags.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 6:02 PM Reply   
3.0 liter mercruiser I/O. nadaguides.com says net weight is 2125 lbs.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 6:03 PM Reply   
Should I add weight to the bow? or do I put the sacs in the back?
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-04-2011, 6:47 PM Reply   
I've never weighted an I/O but do have a lot of experience wakeboarding behind I/Os and outboards back in the day.
You're gonna probably need at a minimum of 50% of the weight you add to be in the bow. Probably more like 40/60 (Stern/bow) especially since nobody can really sit in the bow unless they want to go below deck. With a crew of 4 or more we used to always have everyone in the bow of my dad's 21' center console in high school. Couldn't even have one person in the back or it wouldn't plane.

That 3.0L in a boat that's likely pretty heavy probably isn't going to handle the weight very well. Aerial has some inexpensive bags you could try in there. I'd be surprised if you could add more than around 1,500-1,800 lbs total though (People weight included). Maybe just start with a pair of 350s. Put one in the bow and one in front of the engine. If it handles that ok then experiment with body weight to see if you could handle more weight. If you want to go bigger move the pair of 350s next to the engine and get a 550 for the bow. If it won't get on plane then drain water from the rear bags until it can and that will likely be about as good as it can get.

On the Monster Tower you will likely need reinforcement as I hear Bayliner fiberglass is notoriously thin. That vintage could have been built better than today's offerings though. I like to use plastic cutting boards for the backing and if space permits fiberglass them in place.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-04-2011, 7:06 PM Reply   
Here are the bags I was referring to:
http://www.h2osportswarehouse.com/v/...ccessories.asp

BTW I wouldn't bother automating your ballast system on this boat for several reasons. First of all the boat can't handle that much weight so filling them with detachable pumps won't take that long therefore your time savings relative to dollars spent would be low. When you're filling 2,000+ lbs on an inboard boat automated can be a big time saver especially if you go out for short outings after work and what not. Filling 650-1000 lbs even with a single pump won't take but 15-20 mins worst case. Get a second pump and you can speed things up. Also, it costs a lot to build an automated system correctly. Just the proper fittings to do a thru hull safely will run you about $100. Also you generally have to get more expensive bags in order to nicely integrate them with the plumbing. You'd likely end up with a ballast system that cost a large percentage of your boat's value and get next to nothing for it on resale due to the fact that it's not necessarily expected/desired on this type of boat.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 7:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I've never weighted an I/O but do have a lot of experience wakeboarding behind I/Os and outboards back in the day.
You're gonna probably need at a minimum of 50% of the weight you add to be in the bow. Probably more like 40/60 (Stern/bow) especially since nobody can really sit in the bow unless they want to go below deck. With a crew of 4 or more we used to always have everyone in the bow of my dad's 21' center console in high school. Couldn't even have one person in the back or it wouldn't plane.

That 3.0L in a boat that's likely pretty heavy probably isn't going to handle the weight very well. Aerial has some inexpensive bags you could try in there. I'd be surprised if you could add more than around 1,500-1,800 lbs total though (People weight included). Maybe just start with a pair of 350s. Put one in the bow and one in front of the engine. If it handles that ok then experiment with body weight to see if you could handle more weight. If you want to go bigger move the pair of 350s next to the engine and get a 550 for the bow. If it won't get on plane then drain water from the rear bags until it can and that will likely be about as good as it can get.

On the Monster Tower you will likely need reinforcement as I hear Bayliner fiberglass is notoriously thin. That vintage could have been built better than today's offerings though. I like to use plastic cutting boards for the backing and if space permits fiberglass them in place.


Last time i rode in this boat we had 5 people in it and i believe it was planing. probably a stupid question but what do you consider planing? Also from what i was reading, I though that you didn't want the boat to be planing when your wakeboarding. I could totally be wrong but I thought ideally that you want to be going just under planing speed like 18-23mph. also, If i don't get the automated system to drain the bags, how would I drain them?

about the weight, I plan at minimum having 4-5 people in the boat every time i'm on it. That's about 750 lbs. in the back. So according to the 40/60 you suggested, I would have to add 1125 to the bow. Since the bow isn't open and has a cabin, do you think it's already heavy enough so that I dont have to add soo much to it?
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-04-2011, 8:41 PM Reply   
Some people use the term "On Step" vs. planing. If you're just plowing through the water with the bow sky high the wake will generally be really foamy and steep. Not really jumpable and it's also really difficult for the driver to maintain speed in this state. You will have to get to the point where the bow settles down and to some extent the transom rises out of the water. The wake won't be quite as large at this speed but it will be firmer, cleaner and more "jumpable"

Sounds like I might first need to clarify Automatic vs. Manual as it pertains to ballast systems. I suppose everyone on here that uses ballast uses some form of automation unless they're using a hand pump and pure people power to move the water. A "manual" ballast system would be one where you have a set of stand alone bags and an electric pump that you connect to each bag for filling and draining. An "automatic" ballast system would be one where you have a hole in the bottom of the boat that is plumbed to bags via permanently installed pumps. On this type of system you generally can be hands off and only have to flip a switch to fill and drain.

On the manual ballast pumps they only can pump in one direction but generally have a 3/4" threaded fitting on each end. You connect the hose end to the bag, throw the pump in the water, plug the power lead in to the 12v outlet and it fills that bag. Once it's full you unplug the pump, remove it, cap that bag off and move to the next one. When you're ready to empty you hook the pump to the bag then throw the hose end overboard to pump it out the same way. You can see where this would be labor intensive for a 2,000+ lb system with several bags in several compartments but on a 2-3 bag small system it's not a big deal. Make sense? If not just buy a pump and you will figure it out.

It does make sense that your boat would be a it bow heavy. Also, I'm just taking a stab at what your setup might be and give you a starting point for experimentation. There are probably not too many people on here who have weighted an I/O cuddy cabin so you're probably just going to try some stuff. I think a good starting point for a minimal investment would be the pair of 350s and a pump. Try both in the bow and see what happens. You could try both in the rear but I doubt it will be workable. You could try one in front of the engine and one in the bow. Or one dead center and one in the bow. Once you try these configurations as well as having people move around some you can see if/where you need more weight. If you can handle more weight then grab a 550 or another pair of 350s and see what you can do. If the Aerial 350s turn out to not meet your needs then you can put them up on craigslist and likely be able to recover 75% of your investment.

Last edited by Jeff; 04-04-2011 at 8:43 PM.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2011, 8:55 PM Reply   
thanks for clearing that up, Im totally understanding you now. I think ill try the 350's first since thats 700lbs in the bow and probably about 1000lbs in body weight in the back. I just hope the boat can handle more weight than that but i guess ill have to wait and see!
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-05-2011, 7:11 AM Reply   
Not to be "that guy" but you don't have a boat now and are buying a boat presumably primarily to ride behind? So why are you looking at I/O's, much less bulky underpowered Bayliners?

Your profile says You like in CA but boat in pic has Ohio registration... Either way why not look at one of these? I can't imagine the price is that far off, especially after you add a tower, ballast, etc.

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/boa/2298894091.html

Can't find the other I was thinking of but there was an '84 Supra Rider in NY at north end of finger lakes for Under $4000 and he might be flexy since it's been for sale for a while. Point being, since you're talking of spending money of a tower and prop and whatever else to make a 4-banger Bayliner into a mediocre watersports boat why not just get an inboard? Or heck, a decent I/O with at least a 305/350/351?
Old    Michelle Cardelli (wakenymph)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-05-2011, 8:37 AM Reply   
You can get a tower from Star One Wake. they build their towers custom to each boat so you can get the best fit!
www.menacewatersports.com
(916)858-1178
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-05-2011, 8:59 AM Reply   
+1 on the Star One tower. It's gonna be WAY stronger, a lot less maintenance, and less noisy, than any universal tower.

That little 4 cylinder is gonna have a tough time pushing that boat with 6 guys plus ballast in it. Don't throw the hydrofoil away, you might need it.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-05-2011, 9:08 AM Reply   
I had a 3.8 in my old 2002 bluewater, and with ballast and people, it would not pull up a heavy wakeboarder at all. (180lbs. +). You need a V-8 in order to keep from stressing the engine. It worked for awhile, but the engine would not shut off (dieseling). Mechanic at the shop told me that a V-6 is just not enough power for a 18ft plus boat, especially loaded with ballast. Also said no amount of timing adjustment would help. The engine just getting to hot and the carbon in the cylinders was still glowing causing it to deisel and not shut off. All we had was 600lb. sac plus 4 people. Good luck!
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-05-2011, 9:12 AM Reply   
Just found out your running a 4cylinder?? That boat is wayyyy under powered. If your thinking of buying it, don't it is not a good wake boat at all. Look more towards a older direct drive, Nautique 2001, or Mastercraft pro star
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-05-2011, 12:41 PM Reply   
Here's a thought....ride behind the boat as is and save the money you are planning to spend until you can buy an inboard. You will be much happier in the long run and have plenty of fun behind that boat without a tower and sacs until you can afford to buy what you really want.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-05-2011, 4:30 PM Reply   
Don''t listen to these guys. Put about 2,000 lbs in that baby and prepared to get launched.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-05-2011, 7:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadunkle View Post
Not to be "that guy" but you don't have a boat now and are buying a boat presumably primarily to ride behind? So why are you looking at I/O's, much less bulky underpowered Bayliners?

Your profile says You like in CA but boat in pic has Ohio registration... Either way why not look at one of these? I can't imagine the price is that far off, especially after you add a tower, ballast, etc.

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/boa/2298894091.html

Can't find the other I was thinking of but there was an '84 Supra Rider in NY at north end of finger lakes for Under $4000 and he might be flexy since it's been for sale for a while. Point being, since you're talking of spending money of a tower and prop and whatever else to make a 4-banger Bayliner into a mediocre watersports boat why not just get an inboard? Or heck, a decent I/O with at least a 305/350/351?

Bought the boat from my parents. Hardly ever been used and I got it for 2000.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-05-2011, 7:24 PM Reply   
lol I know the boat will not be optimal at all for wakeboarding. Since I got it for so cheap tho, and I have no experience wakeboarding, it's not gonna be THAT bad. Hell Ive rode in it b4 without a ballast and with 5 adults, didn't seem impossible to ride behind. yea wake wont be like riding behind an actual wake/ski boat, but i cant imagine it being that bad for a beginner. And I already have the monster mte, If i decide to get a better boat I could always take it off the bayliner its universal. But just for ****s, im curious if Star One makes a tower for my boat. Or do they do custom work?
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-05-2011, 7:48 PM Reply   
I personally wouldn't bother with the tower on this boat. Even with the cheapest towers on the market you will be making an investment of 40-50% of the boat's purchase price (value?) in an accessory that will offer you little to no increase in resale value. It may even decrease the value since you're making a permanent modification to the boat that I'd guess most potential buyers would not be interested in. Not to mention that it's going to look ugly/stupid no matter how sick of a tower you mount on it.

IMHO towers don't help you get much, if any more "air" (Vertical height). They generally just give you better hang time and let you jump further due to the fact that the boat isn't actively pulling you down (via the rope) in addition to gravity.

I would do the small amount of ballast because that's easy to keep/resell/use in friends' boats. It's also inexpensive to begin with compared to a tower. Ballast will help you get more vertical height.

Use this boat for a season or two, or three. IMHO start a boat savings account with your $700-1,100 that you have in your tower budget right now and make the jump to an inboard or more suitable I/O when finances permit if you're still interested in the sport.

BTW, please find someone with a properly setup inboard that can give you a few pulls. I know if you were in my area (Baton Rouge, LA) I'd be happy to have you and I'm sure someone local to you would feel the same way. Compare this to your boat and then I doubt you will continue to consider trying to "upgrade" this one. Don't get me wrong, I think you should be excited about this boat and you can still have fun and learn a lot wakeboarding behind it but you can't make a "wakeboat" out of it so don't throw money at it trying.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-05-2011, 8:08 PM Reply   
Also, I practiced what I preached above too. Started wakeboarding in about 1993 behind flatboats with the long skurfer style boards. My friend's dad got an 18' StarCraft I/O in 1996 and we thought we had reached the pinnacle of wakeboarding. Extended pylons were just starting to come on the scene but we never had one. Off and on over the next 5 years I got the occasional pull behind MasterCrafts and Nautiques with extended pylons (no ballast) with just enough time to get a taste for it but not really build the skills to take advantage of it. Finally got some chances to be pulled by a couple of Super Air Nautiques with extra ballast and what not over the course of the last 5 years. I was able to get my own inboard last year and it has really taken my riding to a new level. Got a tower over the winter and only have used it a couple of times. The only ballast I have is a pair of 280 lb sacks though but I hope to change that soon. Even with this small ballast setup I'm getting much more consistent air while also becoming lots more comfortable in the air.

Anyway, my point is don't get overly excited and make poor decisions with your money/existing boat. Make due with what you have and can afford while letting your skills build and spend your money on things that will be portable to the new boat (Nice rope, board, ballast bags) that you will likely be trying to buy in a couple of years.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-05-2011, 8:10 PM Reply   
All the joints in a universal tower make them easy to fold up for shipping. And they will always be a source of rattling & possible failure. Cost of that type of tower is basically the same as Star Ones, which will be more expensive to ship (freight), but ultimately be way stronger. You may not be an experienced rider of any kind, but I've seen complete rookies who weigh a lot & have a lot of hand/arm strength flat refuse to let go of the handle. Something has to give.

Years ago I had an 18' 1990 SeaRay with the same 3 liter I/O in it. We learned how to wakeboard & ride AirChair behind it. I installed a Waylon extended tripod pylon in it. We had a blast in it. But anytime we had more than about 5 or 6 people in it, we had to move people forward to get the boat up on a plane. It just doesn't have the power to move a lot of weight in the water. Your NEVER going to go 20 mph without being on plane. That hydrofoil is on there for that EXACT reason. Adding ballast to the boat is just going to make the problem worse.

Good luck with the boat. But keep your expectations reasonable. Theres a lot of boating experience here that I'd listen to if I were in your shoes.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-05-2011, 8:15 PM Reply   
Sorry, guess I didn't see that you actually had the MTE tower in your possession. Could you return it? Could you try to sell it for a little less than a "new" one? You can't really move it to another boat because you will have drilled holes in the existing boat that won't exactly be a turn on for resale and gelcoat repair costs would run you close to the cost of that tower anyway. Also, once the tower is in position you drill holes in the joints of the tower essentially "locking" it into the width of the boat. So, if you put it on the boat I would do it with the intent to leave it on there forever.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       04-06-2011, 7:45 AM Reply   
I say throw the tower on there, throw some friends in the boat and go have fun.
Old    Michelle Cardelli (wakenymph)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-06-2011, 8:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
lol I know the boat will not be optimal at all for wakeboarding. Since I got it for so cheap tho, and I have no experience wakeboarding, it's not gonna be THAT bad. Hell Ive rode in it b4 without a ballast and with 5 adults, didn't seem impossible to ride behind. yea wake wont be like riding behind an actual wake/ski boat, but i cant imagine it being that bad for a beginner. And I already have the monster mte, If i decide to get a better boat I could always take it off the bayliner its universal. But just for ****s, im curious if Star One makes a tower for my boat. Or do they do custom work?
Star One makes towers custom to the specs of your boat. this insures a perfect fit with optimum strength.

=)
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-07-2011, 2:38 PM Reply   
Jeremys advice is not good, but go ahead and try weighing it down and put some friends in it, then let us know how it does. You don't need a tower or big wake to do flips and spins.These can be done on almost any size wake. And also believe a monster tower on a cuddy cabin is going to look ridiculous. If flips and spins can be done at the cable park without any wake at all, I'm sure pulling from the transom and not over stressing your engine with excessive weight will be much better on your ride. If that engine breaks, your boat is going to be worth about 1500.00
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-07-2011, 2:47 PM Reply   
anthony's advice IS good.With your engine and being a cuddy your best bet is take people with you and have fun as is!!Once up it's all fun
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-07-2011, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv420 View Post
If flips and spins can be done at the cable park without any wake at all.....0
Except for this part...... riding on a cable is nothing like riding tied off low with no wake. Are flips & spins possible? Sure, Shapiro used to do them all the time. Are they likely??? Hmmmmm, guess we shall see.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-07-2011, 4:39 PM Reply   
Personally I think $2000 is a lot more than that boat is worth. $2000 can almost get you into an inboard (think 70s Nautique), SN2001 start around $3000 for something that runs and drives). I sold my last I/O for $2500, it was a 21' open bow with a 350 Chev. Did fine for what I needed at the time and threw a nice shaped wake, just small. I'm much happier with my Supra and if I were to do it again knowing I was going to be riding most of the time I'd never have bothered with an I/O. It was a waste of time and money.

Either way, for $2000 or less you can get a much nicer I/O with a small block. You'd be lucky to sell that Bayliner for $1000. It's not very desirable even as a generic family boat and is underpowered. If you're definitely going to get this boat, leave it as is and don't spend a dime on it other than maintenance. You'l be wanting something better very soon, especially when you're not having fun riding behind it because you can't find anyone who can keep a steady speed where you want it. Even with a 350 in my old I/O I only had a one driver who could keep a rock steady speed, everyone else wandered a bit up and down.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-07-2011, 5:34 PM Reply   
Hell, this may need some work but could be usable as-is. "Needs interior work" could mean stringers but even if you got a few seasons out of it or just did a patch job in the motor mount area you'd still be able to sell if for more than that Bayliner when the time came to upgrade. Under $2000 for a running direct drive... Yeah it's in TX, but an example of what's out there.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/boa/2302234533.html
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-08-2011, 9:21 AM Reply   
Our first boat we had was a 20' Calais which looked exactly the same as your boat with a 115 Hp out board. Although after a few years of holeshots and weighting it down I ended up blowing the motor but I still say to this day that it threw a bigger wake then my current boat. If it's under powered then that may be an issue but as far as a wake is concerned....it will be there, don't worry. You will want to start with the leg all the way down for the hole shot and trim up as needed to clean the wake up and make the perfect ramp. The hardest part we had was the boat at 21-23mph was between plainning and not so it was hard to keep the speed sometimes. I had a "Ten Foot Pole" on ours. The bars got in the way of the back seats a bit so you had to crawl overtop of everything but it sure made a difference with the rope up high.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-08-2011, 6:55 PM Reply   
i'm well i've got the tower and and the boat so i'm gonna put it on. lol it IS gonna look redicules which is totally my style. I'm not gonna put any weight in it tho and will probably only be wakeboarding when theres only 2-3 people. We will see how it runs, hell maybe ill make a video with my new camera. Appreciate all the input tho, I just have to work with what I've got.

cory: So y isn't that boat worth 2,000 again? Ive been watching similar boats that aren't as nice as this one go for 4500+ on CL. However much money ive already spend on it, I'll for sure get back selling this boat for $4,000. It is a 96' but the boat really hasn't been used hardly at all, looks brand new still! My parent bought it from an old couple that barely ever used it and they were the original owners. This was last year, and my parents used it maybe 4 times. It's trailer is in just as good condition as well for being 15 years old. It still has the original tires on it, with pretty good tread on them still! In my opinion the boat was practically a steal even if its only a small 4 banger.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-08-2011, 7:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
It still has the original tires on it, with pretty good tread on them still!
Be careful with that. My boat was the same way but only 11 years old. The original tires looked great but I put 200 or so highway miles on the trailer and noticed one's tread was separating. I was cheap and only replaced that tire (tandem axle trailer so 1 of 4). Next time I got on the highway another one separated catastrophically, messed up my fender and destroyed my new LED tail light (Not to mention the risk and bloody knuckles I got changing it on the side of the interstate). I've learned my lesson there and will likely replace them every 6-8 years regardless of how good they look in the future.

I'd guess your boat has a single axle trailer (based on length and my guess at the weight) so just bite the bullet and spend the $225-300 (Mounted and balanced + tax) to replace both tires sooner rather than later. You're at much greater risk of a wreck or something if you lose half of your tires (vs. the quarter of your tires that you'd be risking with a tandem axle). That 15 year old rubber, no matter how well cared for, is done and I'd only trust it if you're going <2-3 miles to the launch at 35 MPH.

Last edited by Jeff; 04-08-2011 at 7:25 PM.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-08-2011, 7:27 PM Reply   
NM, I know your trailer is single axle now that I took a close look at your 1st pic. IMHO replace them before towing on the highway or you will be kicking yourself if something gets damaged.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-08-2011, 7:45 PM Reply   
yeah I'm having a friend tow it from ohio to california. Transport dude is a friend of the family and he is going out here anyways so he's not charging me much. My dad is hooking it up with some new tires because he said the same thing about the old rubber. He's even getting a spare!
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-08-2011, 8:27 PM Reply   
BTW between that Bayliner and the aforementioned $2,000 Supra I think I'd take the Bayliner. Yes, the Supra has more potential but it looks like a total money pit. It doesn't even look like it's on a proper inboard trailer. The Bayliner looks like it's more mechanically and cosmetically sound. It will get the job done, especially for a beginner, likely with minimal maintenance/repair costs. And I think $4k for it in a couple of years would not be an unreasonable resale amount.

Compare that to the Supra which would likely be difficult to resell for $2k unless it's completely reconditioned and mechanically sound which would cost big $$$.

Use (But don't abuse) the Bayliner for 2-3 seasons while saving up for a better boat and then you can sell it and at least make a little bit of cash (Less your $2k "investment") towards the "new" boat.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-09-2011, 8:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
cory: So y isn't that boat worth 2,000 again? Ive been watching similar boats that aren't as nice as this one go for 4500+ on CL. However much money ive already spend on it, I'll for sure get back selling this boat for $4,000. It is a 96' but the boat really hasn't been used hardly at all, looks brand new still! My parent bought it from an old couple that barely ever used it and they were the original owners. This was last year, and my parents used it maybe 4 times. It's trailer is in just as good condition as well for being 15 years old. It still has the original tires on it, with pretty good tread on them still! In my opinion the boat was practically a steal even if its only a small 4 banger.
There are so many I/O out there for sale, and many are plain jane underpowered boats. Lots of people who want boats but have no money for them. You'd be lucky to get much more than $1000. Last year trying to sell my I/O I had more tire kickers than you could shake a stick at, but issues amounted to either couldn't come up with the money ($2500 obo) or wife issues (with getting a boat in general)... Or my favorite, which I got a LOT... "It's a lot bigger than I thought it was!" WTF did you think I mean when I said 21 feet? 21 metric feet?

When I had it on the lake up north I had one of the 21 metric feet people looking at it and liked it aside from how the size. He was looking at my grandfather's boat (similar open bow I/O) which was on the other side of the dock and said that's more the size he wanted. So told him he could buy that for the same price if he wanted and I'd give my grandfather my boat. Took the guy for a spin and he wanted nothing too do with it since it was so underpowered with a 4 cylinder. My Marlin took about 3 seconds to get on plane and the 4 banger took about 12 seconds. Trying to pull a rider with it was terrible, especially trying to teach someone to get up.

If you can get $4000 then more power to you, I say sell it now and get something decent for riding with the money, and throw your tower on it. Even if it's not an inboard, in the $2000-$4000 range you can get a nice I/O with a small block. Or stick with the Bayliner. If you can get $4000 for it then great, when you upgrade you won't lose money.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-09-2011, 7:47 PM Reply   
yea as i said b4 tho. theres been similar bayliners around my area that i was looking at and they all sold fast. Offered one guy 3500 for his 95' 1950 open bow and he said it already sold for 4500. Where do you live? is there a lot of water in your area? Because location would make all the difference in how fast any boats sell.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-10-2011, 3:06 PM Reply   
I'm in NJ, the river is 15 minutes from here and an hour east and you can be on the bay or ICW near the ocean. Also tried selling it when I was in Maine this summer, where there are lots of lakes. That may be a factor as there are probably a lot more boats along the east coast.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-12-2011, 10:57 PM Reply   
anybody know what prop i should get? I'm looking to spend about 100$ on a 4 blade. I just don't know what pitch or brand to use with this 3.0 liter.
Old    Brandon (Fubar86)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-13-2011, 7:39 AM Reply   
Spend the extra money and get a Mercruiser high-5 prop. I believe 19 pitch it probably what you'll want to stick with regardless of which prop you get, hopefully someone will chime in on that.
Old    Absolutely (NOBODY)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-13-2011, 8:13 AM Reply   
Sell it and buy a Tige, Bu or MC or something similar.
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       04-13-2011, 9:17 AM Reply   
Do you know why Sea Ray's have glass bottoms? So they can see all the Bayliner's
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-13-2011, 11:19 AM Reply   
Thanks brandon but i believe high-5 props are like 400-500$, correct me if im wrong.

Will somebody help me out thats not soo stuck up and doesn't want to just talk sh*it about bayliners cause its pretty annoying. I have the boat, and I've never wakeboarded b4. I didn't start this thread to get other peoples opinions about what kind of boat I should get or that I should sell the one i already have. I started it to get opinions on what I can do to get my bayliner's performance a little better for learning to wakeboard.

If you don't want to help, and just wanna dog on bayliners then get off my thread.
Old    Brandon (Fubar86)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-13-2011, 11:27 AM Reply   
If you are in no particular hurry to pick up a prop, the high 5's can be had from $150-250 used either on craigslist or ebay. Otherwise look for a 4-blade that is 19 pitch.
Old    Dan Noonan (depswa)      Join Date: Nov 2000       04-13-2011, 11:43 AM Reply   
I had a 19' Bayliner. Anyone remember the MonsterCraft?

I got a decent wake with one of those hydrofoils (leave yours on) a Hi-Five 19 Pitch prop, 350 lb sack in the bow, and trimed it up 1/4 to push the back down. I had a Skylon Pole in mine, which was a pain in the ass, so (if you plan on keeping the boat for a while) I recommend putting out the $$$ and getting a real tower, but the skylon served it's purpose and was sturdy.

My boat had the 305 Chevy V8 engine, so may have been a little heavier in the back, but if the 3.0 can handle it, you may be able to add a 250-300lb sack to the back in addition to the one in the bow.

However, I think your main problem with a 3.0 is going to be hole shot. Even with the V8, my boat was tough (especially for beginners) to get up behind when I weighted it down.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes...For an I/O, I was pretty stoked on my boat and had plenty of riders kill it behind it. But, as I rode more, I met people with wake boats and mine eventually just sat in the driveway, so I sold it.

Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-13-2011, 11:50 AM Reply   
What is your RPM now at 20 MPH, 25 MPH and what RPM/speed at wide open? What pitch prop, and is it 3 or 4 blade? I have a feeling you'll be wanting a 17, or even 15 pitch since you're talking 4 blade. This will help to make it easier to drive at riding speed. Every 1" pitch drop adds about 200 RPM for the same MPH as a general rule of thumb.

Also note since your putting all this money into the boat with tower and whatnot you would be better off with a stainless 4 blade or high 5. Aluminum deflects more under load and generally has thicker blades which both reduce performance. The same spec stainless prop can generally get you 1-2 more MPH and better hole shot than aluminum.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-13-2011, 12:03 PM Reply   
"Will somebody help me out thats not soo stuck up and doesn't want to just talk sh*it about bayliners cause its pretty annoying. I have the boat, and I've never wakeboarded b4. I didn't start this thread to get other peoples opinions about what kind of boat I should get or that I should sell the one i already have. I started it to get opinions on what I can do to get my bayliner's performance a little better for learning to wakeboard."

Anthony, I think what they are trying to tell you is that you are going to struggle learning to wakeboard behind your boat. For the most part, the hardest part for a beginner is learning to get up. Your boat is going to have a hard time getting the initial momentum to pull up a rider. This is going to add to the struggles for a beginner.
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       04-13-2011, 12:12 PM Reply   
I was just kidding buddy I have a 35ft bayliner I am on all the time rain or shine and it is way more reliable then my Centurion... Get that tower up and go shred.... any specific questions you have about mounting your tower give me a shout, I work for a tower manufacturer and would be more then happy to answer some questions....
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-13-2011, 4:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riteride View Post
I was just kidding buddy I have a 35ft bayliner I am on all the time rain or shine and it is way more reliable then my Centurion... Get that tower up and go shred.... any specific questions you have about mounting your tower give me a shout, I work for a tower manufacturer and would be more then happy to answer some questions....
thnx I actually was wondering on where to mount the tower. It is a cuddy so its gonna be hard to put weight up there without sacs.Should I be mounting more towards the back or the bow? The instructions just say to take into consideration where the tower is gonna be when folded and nothing else.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-13-2011, 5:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"Will somebody help me out thats not soo stuck up and doesn't want to just talk sh*it about bayliners cause its pretty annoying. I have the boat, and I've never wakeboarded b4. I didn't start this thread to get other peoples opinions about what kind of boat I should get or that I should sell the one i already have. I started it to get opinions on what I can do to get my bayliner's performance a little better for learning to wakeboard."

Anthony, I think what they are trying to tell you is that you are going to struggle learning to wakeboard behind your boat. For the most part, the hardest part for a beginner is learning to get up. Your boat is going to have a hard time getting the initial momentum to pull up a rider. This is going to add to the struggles for a beginner.
yea they're telling me that because they have experience wakeboarding behind nice boats and their expectations are a lot higher than mine are. I could care less about how much money I drop on this boat, money's no thing. But im not gonna go out and sell my boat or buy a new one for a while just to have a perfect wakeboarding boat. Hell ive still never even gotten on a wakeboard yet.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-13-2011, 10:25 PM Reply   
For all you haters!!!! 1994 same boat going for 4200. $2000 my butthole!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/2317586286.html
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-14-2011, 6:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
For all you haters!!!! 1994 same boat going for 4200. $2000 my butthole!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/2317586286.html
I'm not one of the ones arguing that your boat is worthless but just because someone is asking $4,200 doesn't mean it will sell for that. I have a semi-rare motorcycle that I'm trying to sell right now for $4,200 while everyone else with similar bikes but in worse shape with higher mileage are asking $4,650+ but still I've had minimal serious interest over the course of a couple of months. Equivalent ones are actually selling on eBay for $4,200+ but it just hasn't happened for me.

When I bought my boat the seller was asking $16,300 but I ended up buying it for $13,300. My used truck was advertised at $12,000 which was already well below NADA but I offered the guy $10k and he took it.

The point is that the asking price is almost meaningless. It's pretty common for people to up their bottom line by up to 30% to set their asking price too so that seller could very likely take $2,900 if offered.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-14-2011, 7:34 AM Reply   
Asking price doesn't mean much of anything. I could ask $30k for my Supra, which is 2x-3x what it's worth. Will it sell for that price? Doubtful, but if it did I'd be laughing my way to the bank.

And you will hate learning to do any watersports behind a 4 cyl, especially if you have a bunch of friends who want to come out with you as the weight won't help. You'll likely need to move people into the bow to get it to plane, and even then it'll be a fight to pull a first time rider out of the water before they tire. I've been there and done that with a 4 banger I/O. If you really like this boat that much, you should be swapping a 305 or 350 into it. Then it'll do alright as a starter boat to ride behind. The reason so many people are "talking sh*t" is because it's completely unsuitable for watersports. Put a real engine in it and it'll be passable. At the end of the day you could have a much better boat for the same money, be it an I/O or an inboard. Putting a tower on this thing is throwing good money after bad.

Like I said, get us some info on current prop and performance and we can give you a recommendation on a prop that might make it possible to get up behind this thing. Your engine will be spinning to the moon though. Hope it's in good condition to take the abuse.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-14-2011, 10:44 AM Reply   
Dude, ive watched the same exact boat go for this much like 2 months ago. Ive been watching CL. As soon as theres a bayliner 1950 or 1952 posted it sells within 2 weeks. Trust me your wrong! idk if its just because of the area im in but im positive that I could get 4-5000 for mine being 2 years older than that one and a lot nicer. And I dont know how many times ive had to type this but I KNOW MY BOAT ISN"T SUITABLE FOR WAKEBOARDING!!!OK?
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-14-2011, 10:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I'm not one of the ones arguing that your boat is worthless but just because someone is asking $4,200 doesn't mean it will sell for that. I have a semi-rare motorcycle that I'm trying to sell right now for $4,200 while everyone else with similar bikes but in worse shape with higher mileage are asking $4,650+ but still I've had minimal serious interest over the course of a couple of months. Equivalent ones are actually selling on eBay for $4,200+ but it just hasn't happened for me.

When I bought my boat the seller was asking $16,300 but I ended up buying it for $13,300. My used truck was advertised at $12,000 which was already well below NADA but I offered the guy $10k and he took it.

The point is that the asking price is almost meaningless. It's pretty common for people to up their bottom line by up to 30% to set their asking price too so that seller could very likely take $2,900 if offered.

I doubt they would take 2900 when theyre asking 4200. You might throw that number out there, which they are expecting, and every1 will settle for around 3400. and still even if they took 2900. My boats 2 years newer and looks brand spankin new. I would think a minimum selling price for mine would be 3800. And you buying that truck for 10000 was only 17% under asking price. According to your 30% rule you ripped yourself off.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       04-14-2011, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
According to your 30% rule you ripped yourself off.
That wasn't a rule it's just something I've seen quoted before and suggesting that it was well inside the realm of possibilities that they would take as much as 30% less for the sake of argument. And FWIW I did start the negotiations on the truck at 30% under his asking price but I was willing to go up to $10k. If you revisit one of my posts above I agreed that you'd likely be able to sell it for more than you bought it for.

BTW, that BayLiner isn't going to be ideal for wakeboarding. Ha! Maybe name it BastardCraft?
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-14-2011, 11:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
... I KNOW MY BOAT ISN"T SUITABLE FOR WAKEBOARDING!!!OK?
Then why not enjoy it as-is instead of dropping a grand on a tower? It's your money, but I just can't grasp the logic here.

Regardless, give us some numbers on speed and RPM, as well as time to plane with your current setup and we can give you some advise on a prop.

Last edited by cadunkle; 04-14-2011 at 11:45 AM.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-14-2011, 12:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
That wasn't a rule it's just something I've seen quoted before and suggesting that it was well inside the realm of possibilities that they would take as much as 30% less for the sake of argument. And FWIW I did start the negotiations on the truck at 30% under his asking price but I was willing to go up to $10k. If you revisit one of my posts above I agreed that you'd likely be able to sell it for more than you bought it for.

BTW, that BayLiner isn't going to be ideal for wakeboarding. Ha! Maybe name it BastardCraft?
dont get me wrong, The price was probably rite for your truck but 30% a little steep. Maybe 30% if your buying from a dealer. My girlfriend bought a corolla for 8000 when it was priced at 14000 from a dealer so yea asking price isn't at all reasonable but from a private party its usually marked up like 15% of what their gonna take for it. Ill let u all know on sunday the WOT and planing time. I saw sum1 mention rpm at 20 and 25 mph above. Is that important? I though WOT only mattered but im probably wrong.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-14-2011, 12:46 PM Reply   
cory do you think it being a 3.0L that I shouldn't drop the pitch too much? I mean IF its a 23" pitch rite now, would I be safer with a 20" rather than a 19"? I know it adds about 200 rpm with every inch taken off......Well I guess you can only determine that after I clock the WOT and speed so nm i guess.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-14-2011, 12:49 PM Reply   
also i'm not gonna explain how but I didn't pay for the tower, I acquired it. So Y wouldn't I throw it up there? Its got awesome wet sound speakers on it and looks cool. You and many many others might think it will look stupid but me, I personally think it will look pretty cool with the boat having that chrome rail going around the bow.
Old    Travis (gotwake133)      Join Date: May 2010       04-14-2011, 1:42 PM Reply   
Please post a few pictures after you get that tower mounted! I rode behind a 17 foot lund until my family got our Nautique! I had some great times behind my little fishing boat. My advice is just have fun with it and try to make the best without dumping a ton of money into it!
Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       04-14-2011, 2:18 PM Reply   
Anthony
there isnít much you can do to make a great wake, but you still can have a good enough wake to have a good time with it, this message board might not be the one i would have chosen to post the question, but there are a lot of I/O boat owners on this forum, so you will get some good answers to your post, but also remember you will get a lot of other answers here that you might not like... who cares what it cost, at least youíre on the water and not looking from shore at other people that own boats.

i had a 89 Bayliner for one season years ago, for starters, i did as much to it as i could and we still had fun wakeboarding behind it. just add as many people as you can and have fun.
would i ever go back to a I/O, no, once behind a DD or V-Drive, hard to go back to a I/O...
Attached Images
 
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-14-2011, 6:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by amroczka View Post
cory do you think it being a 3.0L that I shouldn't drop the pitch too much? I mean IF its a 23" pitch rite now, would I be safer with a 20" rather than a 19"? I know it adds about 200 rpm with every inch taken off......Well I guess you can only determine that after I clock the WOT and speed so nm i guess.
Find out what your RPM at 20-22 MPH is now as that's around where you'll be riding. Even with the 4 banger gear reduction outdrive it'll still be a lot of prop to push. That little engine will be screaming no matter waht you do, but I'd try to keep the RPM below 3200 at riding speed. This boat isn't gonna go fast, which is fine, it just needs to have the torque to pull a rider up in a reasonable amount of time and be capable of holding a steady speed with the average skill of whoever you have driving for you. If you want to go out on the water and cruise around, just change props to the one that came with it so you get better fuel consumption and MPH. Figure out what your current speed and RPM numbers are and what your time to plane is like, we can figure from there how much less pitch you need to do alright for riding.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-14-2011, 7:07 PM Reply   
Anthony I never was trying to Bash Bayliners or your boat. I think it is def worth the price. I was just trying to let you know that it might strain the engine loading extra ballast in there. Put the tower on on and go rip! your gonna have plenty o fun regardless of what you ride behind. Its all about having fun on the water and thats it!!!
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-14-2011, 8:35 PM Reply   
I'd go with a 17 pitch prop and throw about 1000lbs in it, up front and in the ski locker (if it has one) that's how a friend of mine would weight his boat and it has a fairly good wake. Been out with him several times, with no weight and 6 on board it did fine, 600 lbs and 4 on board it was OK, and it was quite surprising when he got his new prop how quick it would get out of the hole and plane even with 1000lbs and 3-4 on board. His was pretty much the same boat just a little newer, had a tower on it as well. If you got it for free might as well throw it up there otherwise sell it and go for a high pole.

Also the learning behind a 4 cylinder comment is total BS, I've wakeboarded behind 4 cylinders many times before, even 2 banger jet skis and a 10 horse power outboard on a 12 ft tinnie. You can ride behind almost anything. Sure the ten horse took a while to get going, but it still got there.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-14-2011, 8:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnz View Post
I'd go with a 17 pitch prop and throw about 1000lbs in it, up front and in the ski locker (if it has one) that's how a friend of mine would weight his boat and it has a fairly good wake. Been out with him several times, with no weight and 6 on board it did fine, 600 lbs and 4 on board it was OK, and it was quite surprising when he got his new prop how quick it would get out of the hole and plane even with 1000lbs and 3-4 on board. His was pretty much the same boat just a little newer, had a tower on it as well. If you got it for free might as well throw it up there otherwise sell it and go for a high pole.

Also the learning behind a 4 cylinder comment is total BS, I've wakeboarded behind 4 cylinders many times before, even 2 banger jet skis and a 10 horse power outboard on a 12 ft tinnie. You can ride behind almost anything. Sure the ten horse took a while to get going, but it still got there.
1000 lbs??? isnt that a bit much? the plate say capacity 7 people or 1100 lbs load. if anything ill prob put a 350 in the bow and only fill it when theres just me and maybe 1-2 other people.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-19-2011, 10:30 PM Reply   
Ok so I went for a test run with 2 other people and a full tank of gas. Speedometer doesn't work. At the speed I would like to wakeboard, boat is running like 2900 rpm. WOT was around 4200 then I trimmed up a little and got the rpms up to 4400-4500. Prop is a 3 blade 21" pitch. I want to go with either a 18 or 19 but dont know which one to get. Can sum1 give me some advice? BTW the wake looked great at what seemed like perfect boarding speed. however it was a little wide.
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-19-2011, 10:32 PM Reply   
Also noticed that the boat wanted to turn to the left (alignment). Hydrofoil has a chip on the right part of the fin. Do you think thats what causing it to want to pull to the left?
Old    Anthony Mroczka (amroczka)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-20-2011, 7:46 PM Reply   
any1 with prop suggestions?
Old    Seth M (Sethjoe)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-20-2011, 8:33 PM Reply   
high 5 prop for sure and i've been told 17 pitch works great.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-20-2011, 8:40 PM Reply   
Fix the speedometer. Likely junk in the pitot, pull the tube form the back of the gauge and blow air through it. Should clear it up.

18" pitch will put you around 3500 RPM at the speed you want, if you stay with a 3 blade. 3500 is crazy high RPM to be running all the time, but that's the nature of a 4-banger. So run the 18" pitch. You'd probably be better off with a 17" pitch stainless 4 blade though which would probably put you at a similar RPM but give a little more top end MPH and better hole shot.

I/O's will torque a bit. Does yours have power steering? If not, that's life, deal with it. If it does, make sure the pump and rams are good and everything is working. With power steering you shouldn't feel any pull.

As for the wide wake, that's waht an I/O does. shorten your line to get narrow enough to clear the wake, and lengthen as you get better.

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