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Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-16-2011, 11:12 AM Reply   
First, I really don't want to start a fight here, I only want to talk about something I saw this w-e.

I was helping my cousin boat seller at the Qc boat show to answer some questions about is new brand, Epic. It's a small boat show with a lot of fishing boats, I/O, pontons and couples of wake boats! It is fairly reprensentative of what kind of peoples were there. Not so much riders around!
We got a nice black 21V and a baddass wrapped 23V. These are the firsts 2 of 3 Epic in Quebec, maybe in the east of Canada.
It caught the attention of everybody who ride, own or sell wakeboard boat. Everybody except Nautique owners or sellers. Every other brands sellers came to see the boats except them! They event didn't watching at us at all!
I got one owner who came to look at the 23V. I talked with him a bit but he was like not impressed and not interressed to be impressed...
At the end he said that he ordered a new 210 with a "you can't imagine" smile!
WTF with all these guys? I really love Air Nautique boats but I can appreciate other brand like Epic! Epic has been made for peoples like me. I understand that Nautique are crazy nice but it's just esthetic. If you can pay for it, good for you.... but it's not necessary to wakeboard! IMO, I prefere to work in the wood with a F250 than a Escalade!
Epic 23V : 67 995$ with trailer
230 TE : 106 000$ without trailer
... at the end, they are both use for the same thing! And one of them will be full of fat sac to create a equivalent wake! Plus, I read that a 230 is washy and hard to tune!
I hope it's just a local observation! Maybe it's more about money than boats... I don't know...
N.B. I really love Nautique boat!!!
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-16-2011, 12:00 PM Reply   
I own a old hull 210 and frequent Planet Nautique, yet somewhat agree with you. I would also say it's not fair to paint this picture of all Nautique owners & dealers. I'm personally disappointed in the direction Nautique has gone. They have not supported our dealers here in California and their prices are now out of reach for the majority of wakeboarders. They continue to market themselves to the wakeboard market without making any innovative improvement to the wake. I find that Nautique's real market (at least in my area ) are non-wakeboarders that couldn't decide between the new Eliminator or a SANTE 230 and decided chicks dig a wakeboarder.

I'm not saying I don't love their product, but I feel Epic Axis, Tige and Supra are a much better value for wakeboarders who just wants to wakeboard.
Old    Ryan (rkinsell)      Join Date: May 2005       03-16-2011, 12:09 PM Reply   
You're forgetting about the value of a company who has been making quality boats since 1925. There are several flawless Nautiques for sale from the 80's. Who knows what is going to happen with Epics that have been around for a couple years.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-16-2011, 12:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinsell View Post
You're forgetting about the value of a company who has been making quality boats since 1925. There are several flawless Nautiques for sale from the 80's. Who knows what is going to happen with Epics that have been around for a couple years.
And that's why I purchased a used Nautique for about a third of the price as new one. Malibu (aka Axis), Tige and Supra are not new to this game.
Old    Kat Laird (wakekat15)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-16-2011, 2:07 PM Reply   
I am on my 4th Nautique and understand the pride associated with the brand, but not arrogance. I have moved quite a bit, so I have worked with 5 different dealers in different states. None of them came off to me as arrogant or looking down their nose at other boat companies. They make a quality product and most importantly (to me)...they stand behind it with an awesome warranty. Personally, I am a BIG fan of any boat with a great wake & look forward to the opportunity to ride behind an Epic!

As far as not being willing to consider switching to another brand, for me that has everything to do with the quality and personal relationships that I have with the dealers vs. another brand not being "acceptable". However, I am always interested in checking out ALL the wakeboard boats at the boat show. Otherwise, why attend??

Last edited by wakekat15; 03-16-2011 at 2:08 PM. Reason: sp
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-16-2011, 2:32 PM Reply   
In my opinion, the Nautique dealer in Dallas is one of the top 2 boat dealers in Dallas. I own a Centurion Avy, but every time I go into there store I get treated 1st class. I think every brand has its die hards and their attitude towards their brand will not change. Reality is that there are 8-10 brands that all make very nice boats. So it really comes down to preference

IMO, all in-board boat prices have gotten crazy. A new entry level wakeboard boat is nearly $60K.
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-16-2011, 3:52 PM Reply   
Maybe it is just a local thing here, in Qc!
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-16-2011, 4:06 PM Reply   
Nothing like taking a small anecdote (the boat show) and extrapolating it into all Nautique owners. Because... it's always helpful to make gross generalizations about broad classes of people. Geeze.
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-16-2011, 5:17 PM Reply   
Bahhhhhhhh! No generalization at all, just an observation!
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       03-16-2011, 5:30 PM Reply   
Fred, it's the language laws.
You see Nautique is the only one that looks like it complies with them.
Epic just seems too English.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-16-2011, 5:34 PM Reply   
IMO the WORST of the WORST starts at boats shows and Dealers. IMO boat sales men use some sort of school yard high school Cooler than me Sales aditude when trying to sell you a boat and then guess where it ends up. "HERE" Some guy just got pumped full of hate for this brand or that brand and now thinks he is some expert and then Boom it starts all over again. Is bashing one of the most important sales tequniques? IMO for some sales people YES it is.
Most boat sales people are Taught how to sell against each other Nautique Vs Malibu Or Master Craft Vs what ever. They go to a Sales semanar and they will have the compitions boat right there. They will go threw it for the reason of knowing its strong points and week points and then selling to thoes strengths. Some sales people will Sell towards the compitions week point's. Example you should buy this boat because Brand X has a weeker hull or thinner gell coat.
Its all a bunch of B.S
IMO if your a Boat guy you love all boat's and enjoy checking them out and love your time on the water. But that's bad news for sales guys! and factorys They need to create devision and classes. Seperate your self from brand "x" by getting brand "y"
Boat Show's Ya Got to love them!
IMO its the Sales guys Sweet revenge for having to do the whole boat show thing. They send you home with your head fill'd with amo to come here and start the bashing. Kinda like stripers and their glitter. You dont know where you got it and the $hit seems to never go away and allways shows it self at the wrong time.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-16-2011, 6:11 PM Reply   
Grant nailed it. I actually feel for most dealers because it's a tuff business. All is fair in love & war
Old    Dave P (OldDad)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-16-2011, 6:29 PM Reply   
While shopping for a new boat this year, I have found Nautique and Malibu dealers to be delightful to deal with. Mastercraft.... not so much
Old    Robert Theisen (rt360)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-16-2011, 6:34 PM Reply   
I owned a 1992 nautique excel for 15 years .I had no trouble with it and got 40 percent of purchase price back after 15 years of ownership.The only attitude i noticed was from Mastercraft owners.I then bought a Tige 22ve and noticed attitude from some but not all Mastercraft,Malibu,Nautique,Supra and even some moomba owners. I think it's a pride thing and we all in general think everyone is a certain way.If we are truely honest we will see some aren't biased owners and others drink the kool aid and think you should too.People are different thats just life.Everyone have a good day and enjoy your boat and don't worry what others think.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-16-2011, 6:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt360 View Post
The only attitude i noticed was from Mastercraft owners.
I was thinking this exact same thing as I read the original post. I think generalizing a group of owners based on one show is a bit ridiculous. I try to remain nuetral with bias, something a dealer for a specific brand (like Epic) might struggle with.
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-16-2011, 8:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredlap View Post
It caught the attention of everybody who ride, own or sell wakeboard boat. Everybody except Nautique owners or sellers. Every other brands sellers came to see the boats except them!
How did you know they were Nautique owners? Were they wearing signs? I cant believe this is actually a thread. So someone didnt look at your boat. So another dealer didnt want to hear the sales pitch about your boat. Maybe they'd already heard about it and it wasnt for them? Maybe the look wasnt their style so they wanted to look at other boats? Maybe they had a limited amount of time? A limited budget? Their lack of interest could have been due to any one of a million reasons. But you're right, they're probably just a little bit arrogant.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-16-2011, 8:58 PM Reply   
if i could afford a nautique i def would buy one. they are top notch! If your a snob, your a snob, no matter what boat you ride! most all boat owners can appreciate any boat of any style..........i've had plenty of fisherman give me compliments on my boat. Ben, your right, is this really a thread??
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-16-2011, 9:11 PM Reply   
This is cool to read! It was easy to see it coming.... each time you want to talk about something on WW, somebody is there put a war in the discussion! I mean, I talk about Quebec city... people are a bit differnet here maybe! I only wanted to know if it was a common thing! I'm am not a dealer at all, I love every boat brand.
Ben, Nautique's space was next to us so it was easy to see things going and for the one who talked to me, I asked... tha's a cool way to know something, you should try!
Don't forget, if you're are not like this, just don't feel sad about it! That kind of reactions are showing the opposite!
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-16-2011, 9:51 PM Reply   
Im telling you I bet most Boat salesman could write a tell all book on the crazy things they have had done to them or done to each other. I know some of the best in the business (you know who your are) and some of the worst. I agree it's a tough tough business and most of the times Nice guys finish last. The dirt bag's will come and go but the only the honest good people will make it threw the tough times.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-17-2011, 6:22 AM Reply   
Don't confuse pride of ownership with rudeness. The Nauti owners I have met are some of the nicest and helpful people I know even if you dont own a Nauti. The simple truth is Nautique just doesn't give you a reason to switch .
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-17-2011, 6:51 AM Reply   
I doubt if it's all Correct Craft people or dealers. I think it comes down to snobs. They're usually not overly knowledgeable about what they have, or what else is on the market. They have more dollars than sense and want to believe their "thing" is best and anything else is junk. People like this usually drive around in their ghetto bling bling fancy foreign cars. Us normal people chuckle when we see them or when they ramble about how their "thing" is best, but they think they're better than everyone else. Been happening since the beginning of time.

Personally I'm a less is more kind of guy. I like Epic in some regard for their "less is more" approach, but they are still loaded with luxury and amenities. I don't know about you guys but 99% on the time my boat is in the water it's pulling someone. Always been this way even when I just had a cheap old I/O. When I think bare bones I think SN2001 or any similar 80s no frills inboard. To compare it to a new boat, think Standard Boats (basically a new SN2001 for $30k).

I could never afford to drop $68k on a boat, but maybe in 10-15 years I would consider a used Epic if the prices are reasonable and all the fancy electronics and fuel injection has proven reliable in the long run. I agree with others who have said prices are just insane on any wake boat. Standard is the only one that comes anywhere close to reasonable, but I still think that's a lot to pay for a SN2001.

You could buy a SN2001, restore it with new stringers, floor, interior (with some small amounts of hidden ballast) engine, PP, and tower for under half the price of a Standard, and have basically a brand new SN2001... Which is what a Standard amounts to. Put the same money into a Sunsport or SNOB and have an open bow. Heck, put it into an Excel and have a vdrive. It just seems to me that most of the boat companies are out of touch of your average wakeboarder.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-17-2011, 6:58 AM Reply   
For any brand, there is a douche bag that owns it and acts that all other boats are second tier (in some cases of ultra doucheness, that clown will claim the same exact model is still not up to par with their boat).

I would rather go ride behind a bass boat with some good people than ride behind sacked-out 230 (not bashing Nautique, just an example, insert X-Star, LSV, etc. if you are offended) with a boat full of tools.

Last edited by wake77; 03-17-2011 at 7:00 AM.
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-17-2011, 7:58 AM Reply   
I Agree with you Jeremy and cory !!!
Maybe it's more a money problem than a brand problem... for sure, it's a attitude problem!
Wannabes are the worst IMO (wannabe rich or wannabe wakeboarder)! They always talk about what they have and what they do to show you something! Great riders tend to be modest and cool.... it's something I love about real athletes.... they don't forget the work!
So... snob are snob, whatever the boat they drive... sorry for those I have hurt! It was not a generalization.... just a local observation....
Old    Scott (chexi)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-17-2011, 1:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
In my opinion, the Nautique dealer in Dallas is one of the top 2 boat dealers in Dallas. I own a Centurion Avy, but every time I go into there store I get treated 1st class. I think every brand has its die hards and their attitude towards their brand will not change. Reality is that there are 8-10 brands that all make very nice boats. So it really comes down to preference

IMO, all in-board boat prices have gotten crazy. A new entry level wakeboard boat is nearly $60K.
I keep hearing/reading this. Everyone loves the Nautique dealer in Dallas (well Lewisville actually), but I have nothing but negatives with that bunch. They have ignored every email I have sent them (why have email as an option if you do not check it), and when I went in to the shop in person to ask them about a used boat they had listed for sale, they were not interested in selling it to me. I asked them for details, which they were going to get back to me on, and then they sold the boat to someone else about a week later. They never got back to me, despite my trying to get a hold of them by phone and yes email several times in the interim. This happened a year ago. Perhaps if you are willing to buy a new boat from them, they might treat you well, but they really do not care about their used inventory (or maybe I'm just repeatedly lucky). I love the boats (just bought my second one (a 2000 SAN)... not from them), but I take my Nautiques to Tyler whenever I need service thank you very much. You know who in Lewisville clearly does not want my business, and I am more than happy to oblige them.

BTW, if it were just a snob thing, wouldn't they be buying MasterCrafts? Don't MasterCrafts cost more. For some of us, a PCM engine has a lot of value (especially on a used boat). I do not know what engines Epics use.

All that said, I can afford to pay cash for a new Nautique, MasterCraft, Supra, etc. But I would have to be making in the millions per year to be able to justify buying one. All of the boat manufacturers have gone way over the top in price and bling. I am sorry, but a tow boat should not cost more than a mid-level Mercedes. If a great wake is what you want, get yourself a late 90's to early 2000's v-drive in good condition. The wakeboarding wakes have not improved on the newer boats, and in most cases have gotten worse. The only thing that might have improved (other than the bling) is the surf wake, but there is really only so much you can do with a surf wake anyway.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       03-17-2011, 1:43 PM Reply   
Not to jump on you Fred, but there is a difference in way more than just aesthetics from an Epic to a Nautique. The build quality, process, parts and motors are all different with a higher cost and build. I work for a MC dealer and I would say that MC and Nautique build the best boats on the water as far as the top products and productions going into the boat. I appreciate what other boats have to offer but the actual build quality and parts used is what I am talking about. The name along doesn't cost anything more.
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-17-2011, 2:33 PM Reply   
ehhhh! not so sure but anyway, it's not about boat quality.... it's about attitude!
... and I wish they got much more than esthetic for 50 000$!!! Epic got some otptions SAN230 doesn't have.
-dual rudder
-3600 of ballast
-transom system
-trim plade
-gravity ballast
... these are the things I was looking for, we were sick to fill fat sac and put them all over the place! 3 switch, 90 sec and boom.... you're ready! It's all about what you are looking for!
Old    Fred (fredlap)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-17-2011, 2:36 PM Reply   
... anyway I didn't want to compare boat at the begening!!! Sorry!
Old    Toad Froggy (ointment)      Join Date: Jun 2008       03-17-2011, 2:52 PM Reply   
sorry about your issues with buxton scott, but from my experience with them they have been nothing but fantastic... imo i thought i paid to much in 06 no way would i buy new now from any brand... prices are retarded... as mention many times, there are snob's everywhere.

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