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Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       01-24-2011, 12:39 AM Reply   
I went to the Seattle Boat Show yesterday and had tons of fun. I didn't spend a lot of time in the Mastercraft or Centurion sections but I did spend quite a bit with Axis, Moomba/Supra, Sanger, Tige, and Malibu. The cheapest new wake boat I could find was a Supreme with silver flakes for $43k. Next was Axis A20 at something like $47k and Moombas a bit more than that. I really liked the Axis boats (I am not shopping for a boat but I am not rich and when I was looking most of the other brands were so far out of my price range that I didn't bother to look).

The 2011 Sanger they had looked almost identical to my boat, same color, same trailer, most of the same options. They had a newer tower, newer sticker graphics and this weird integrated fiberglass platform on the back (above the swim step) that was intended as a place to sit while putting on a board I think. I don't know if it was removable but it was really weird looking. It sort of looked like the boat had a tumor on the back. Sorry I couldn't get a picture, if I can make it back this week after work some day I'll try to get one. Other than that it was sweet, but they were trying to sell it for $73k!! (v215) What's worse was the line the salesman was giving to a potential buyer. Buyer was concerned about bow rise and the salesman told him there wasn't any. ... yeah right. Also told him that it handles just like a direct drive and is perfect for water skiing. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sanger, but it does not handle like a direct drive (at least not like the Mastercraft I used to own and the Malibu Echelon my pal has). And yes there is significant bow rise even with the front ballast full (and what's the big deal anyway?).

Anyway, I was most impressed with the Supra Worlds they had on display. I love that tower and I love the upholstery. It was really thick and nice and had a great texture, almost like spray on wall texture but with deeper grain. It had an interesting feature I hadn't seen before, you open up one of rear (next to engine) storage compartments and there's a secondary lid inside with non-skid, I I think intended so you could get to the swim step without stepping on the upholstery but still leaving you with a full sun pad on the back. I want to see how feasible it is to add something like that to my boat.

I didn't like a lot of the upholstery some of the other manufacturers were using. It's the stuff that sort of looks like a carbon fiber pattern. It looks cheesy to me but of course that's just my opinion.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-24-2011, 8:25 AM Reply   
That walkway skid pad has been around since like 07' - it's a great feature..

lol @ $73k 21' Sanger
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-24-2011, 9:56 AM Reply   
I was down in Seattle for the boat show on the weekend as well. I'm amazed that anyone can afford a new boat. $ 87k for a 23LSV & something like $74k for a VLX, and $ 106k for a Mastercraft x25....Crazy. Was kind of cool to see Parks' boat at the mastercraft booth. Really like the color combo with the orange piping but man does he beat on that boat. Gouges and scratches in the gel coat and right through the wrap, black marks all over the tower and speakers. New mastercraft tower is just as ugly in real life. The new Moomba's look really nice, they have stepped up their game and with the new tower on them they look really nice. I did like the new Supra World's but I just don't like that interior at all. The rear facing seat behind the drivers seat takes up way to much room in the lounge area making it feel really small. On the lower end/costing boats I still really like the new Supreme 226. I'm still a fan of the MB's as well but I just find the seats and floor to be quite shallow due to the tanks in the floor. Lastly, check out Avalon pontoon boats, these things were just decked right out. That's crusin baby!
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       01-24-2011, 2:27 PM Reply   
Pics?
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-24-2011, 3:50 PM Reply   
I didn't take any.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-24-2011, 5:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Other than that it was sweet, but they were trying to sell it for $73k!! (v215) What's worse was the line the salesman was giving to a potential buyer. Buyer was concerned about bow rise and the salesman told him there wasn't any. ... yeah right. Also told him that it handles just like a direct drive and is perfect for water skiing
My guess is that they were fluffing the price so that the actual selling price seems like a great deat relative to the $73k.
I have very little bow rise at all in my V215 and its pretty common knowledge that Sangers don't, especially weighed against many other V drives.
I had an MB Sport 190 before this boat and my Sanger handles better, not saying thats true with all DD's but its damn close.
Old    Matt (malibumatt)      Join Date: May 2006       01-24-2011, 6:23 PM Reply   
Who sells Sangers in Seattle?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-24-2011, 7:06 PM Reply   
No one, the closest is The Pro Shop in Longview but they usually don't go to the Seattle show but rather the Portland.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       01-24-2011, 7:47 PM Reply   
The Sanger was at a booth from some place called Granite Boatworks (http://www.graniteboatworks.com/). They only had the one.

Update: found it on their site: http://www.graniteboatworks.com/boat...bryant-v215xtz

You can see the weird platform thing on the back here: http://www.graniteboatworks.com/site...MG_0618-lg.jpg
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-24-2011, 7:51 PM Reply   
Maybe that's the "Fast and Furious" edition LOL .

They better go back to the drawing board on that one .
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-25-2011, 9:53 AM Reply   
It seemed as if a lot of the boat companies have made slightly smaller Triangle shapped platform now due to everybody wanting to surf behind there boat. Some of them like the Nautique seemed quite small.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-25-2011, 10:42 AM Reply   
Huh, looks like a new dealer in town but they sure as hell won't be selling Sangers long if they expect that number for them.

Nu, just think about how much down force that wing creates. No need for ballast
Old    Matt (malibumatt)      Join Date: May 2006       01-25-2011, 1:22 PM Reply   
I haven't seen Sangers at the Portland Boat show in years. Plus I don't think the pro shop has sangers anymore. They might be a dealer but I would be suprised if they had any inventory. I really wanted to buy his leftover 2008 V215 last year but he seemed pretty firm on price. I am pretty sure I saw that same boat at a CA dealer in the fall along with the rest of his inventory. Super nice guy though, I wish I would have ended up buying from him.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       01-25-2011, 3:45 PM Reply   
I found that they were firm on price as well. I almost bought a v215 (lime v green) from them last year but financing fell through. They gave me back 60% of my $1000 deposit which I thought was crap because I never signed anything saying it was non-refundable. Decided not to fight it because I had a lot of crap going on and didn't have time to deal with it. Anyway, the other thing I noticed was that at some time those boats were stored outside because they were supposedly brand new but they had a ton of rusty pieces in the engine compartment and on hinges and stuff. Sanger tries to talk about how high quality their boats are but I didn't understand how they ended up with non-stainless steel hinges holding on things like the v-drive cover. Other rusty parts included the v-drive mounts and transmission mounts, and a few other steel parts in the engine compartment. That dealer there promised the entire boat (including engine compartment) would be detailed to showroom condition but since the deal fell through I never got to see that in action. I got him down to $38,600 (IIRC) for a new 08 V215 with perfect pass stargazer, heater, triple ballast, depth finder. I thought it was a pretty good deal (and I LOVED the color) but as I said my financing fell through.

I think it's harder to find cheap deals now because all the old overstock inventory has been sold and manufacturers have held back on creating extra. The lower volume dealers probably just do special orders now instead of keeping inventory. Probably better for the industry but means you pay more now than you did a year or two ago.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-25-2011, 3:53 PM Reply   
I just emailed Don looks like they aren't gonna invnetory any new boats right now. GE's flooring is crap so its too tough to do. They'll still do orders for customers and service work as well as keep the pro shop open. It's a bummer they are an excellent dealer and offered great prices on their boats as is evidenced by saberworks number above. Incidentally, all my hinges are stainless and I have now rust anywhere on my boat.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-25-2011, 3:59 PM Reply   
It is too bad there isn't a Sanger dealer in Seattle worth a crap. There have been a couple different places try but always seem to be fishing boat or I/O dealers who don't know the first thing about wakeboarding boats. At least the Pro Shop isn't too far but with them not really stocking boats or being represented at the Seattle boat show it is hard to create a market for them in Seattle. I would think it would be a great line for one of the other dealers to carry as a less expensive option. Maybe the Tige or MB dealer could stock them but then again maybe those boats are too close in price in really make sense.

By the way, 73k for any Sanger(even the most loaded 237) is absolutely crazy. I could see around 60k maybe for the most loaded 237 out there but the 215 shouldn't be priced anymore then 50-55k. That dealer aint going to sell a single Sanger at those prices.

The other thing about special order boats is you should be able to negotiate a good price. The dealer doesn't have the risk or cost of flooring the boat and basically passes it straight over to the customer once delivered from the factory. They probably have the boat in their possession less then a week. Even if they only make 5k on the boat it isn't a bad deal for the dealer.

Last edited by polarbill; 01-25-2011 at 4:03 PM.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       01-26-2011, 2:55 PM Reply   
So I went back to the show to look at that Sanger up close. Different salesperson and the owner was there as well. I had a nice conversation with them. No BS at all. They said they were taking Sanger seriously and they actually have that boat plus another v215 in stock. The other one is red and doesn't have the package with the weird seat thing on the back. They have a new perfect-pass type replacement that is also GPS controlled but does starts as well (not just maintaining speed after the start). There are preprogrammed settings and you can customize the start, speed, etc. for each rider.

I really liked the upholstery and thickness of the seat cushions. The tower is great as always. Flip up bolster seat was nice, all the stainless and aluminum touches on the newer sangers is really nice too.

I talked to him about the price and he told me that the 73k is MSRP and that they were listing it for $63k. I have the feeling you could get them down to the high-50s but that's just a guess. I was happy to see that he was willing to discuss price, not just gloss over it. They also provide "free scheduled maintenance for life" on all new boats they sell. He said all scheduled maintenance for as long as you own the boat is free. It sounds great to me. He said it's nice when people come trade in their boats that the shop has the full maintenance records and they're easier to resell. He also said people tend to not do maintenance once the boat gets a few years old and so this encourages them to keep it in good shape.

Finally, he said they were ordering one more boat, a v237. It sounds like they're not afraid to stock boats (which is nice). So, anyone in Seattle looking for a new Sanger? Give these guys a shot, you'd be able to demo the boat before you buy which is more than you can say for the other NW Sanger dealers.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-26-2011, 3:10 PM Reply   
63k still seems really high. Don't think for a second that the scheduled maintanence is free. It is just built into the price so you can pay the money out of your pocket upfront and they can reinvest that cash. I would rather keep the money and do the maintenence myself or pay an independent mechanic to do the work when needed. To me it sounds like they are trying to make too much GP on a Sanger which in my opinion prices the Sanger out of where it belongs. They should probably be priced slightly higher then a moomba but below a Supra, Tige or MB.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-29-2011, 8:40 PM Reply   
Just got back from the show. I am not that impressed with the new boats when you factor in price. Besides the screen in the dash of a lot of the boats I don't see any innovation at all that should make the boats that much more expensive then they use to be. I did like the black and blue axis A20 that AWS how there and being a Husky fan the Husky A22 was cool. I liked the Moomba lsv and XLV. They are just nice and clean looking, simple boats. I am not sure if a lot of the boats were just showing MSRP but if the prices posted on a lot of the boats were boat show selling prices this industry has gotten out of control. The only thing they have now that they didn't before is an LCD screen that personally I wouldn't want anyways. I just don't get it. I don't get why anybody on earth would buy a new boat right now. For example you can go buy an 06 or 07 Xstar for 50k or you can buy the same exact boat for 100k+ now. Again, the only new thing on these boats is the big LCD screen. Is having a brand new boat and a warranty(not sure why a 3 year warranty is even important to people) worth 100% more?

From the dealers I talked with I got the impression that not a lot of boats are getting sold which I guess isn't that surprising.
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       01-29-2011, 10:16 PM Reply   
I Had a great time up at the show yesterday. Spent a lot of time talking with vendors. Seemed like most people where pretty excited about the turnout. I have to say though... once I spent some time in that 70ft Sunseeker (actually not sure how big it was)---but the show went down hill after that. The swim platform was so wide it looked like you could put a VLX up on the back swim platform as a dingy. Then again the 800 gallons of fuel to top it off would destroy my credit card pretty fast.

Great show guys. Great to put names and faces together.

-Brian
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