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Old    SamIngram            12-31-2010, 12:47 PM Reply   
Ahh! Barry got it! Hook, Line, and Sinker!
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-31-2010, 2:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
The situation was that he didn't think that he needed a gun, and therefore didn't have one when he did in fact need one. Now he is dead. This is what happens to 99% of people when they find themselves in a situation that requires a gun or where they could benefit by having one, they don't have one.

My family and I on the other hand have the gun 100% of the time when legally able, and when and if the situation rises we have a much higher percentage of carrying another day.

If either guy in the video was carrying a gun legally, the incident would have never happened. The one carrying the gun legally, would have simply gone their way as training and liability compel them to.

Actually, the "situation" was the his STEP FATHER shot in POINT BLANK in the chest at close range on Christmas in front of his mother..

He could have been carrying 10 guns but it wouldn't have mattered..


Sam - you are a paranoid douche or a really good troll.. Either way - you suck.
Old     (jabilitator)      Join Date: Dec 2010       12-31-2010, 2:57 PM Reply   
I love how skier dad brings up the skiers code, when him and his group weren't following it. People in front have the right of way, period. It doesn't matter wether the snowboard crew was butterin and playing on side hits or if they were carving across the entire catwalk, they were in front they had the right of way. Skier dad handled the whole thing wrong and his hatred for snowboarding and the freestyle scene is the real problem. I'm not saying the snowboard crew was justified in reacting the way they did, but from what I can tell, from their site and seeing this video other places, they're a local crew to Whistler were this happened. Skier dad and his group were most likely on vacation, ski a couple days a year, and feel entitled to whatever they want because they bought lift tickets. Simple situation handled poorly by an entitled tourist. If you watch though, his kids were skiing fine and had no issues with what was going on in front them.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-31-2010, 2:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
How do you know he didn't own a gun. And how do you know that owning one would have prevented his death?
The victim was a gun owner. He was shot int he chest, point blank by his father in law. No gun would have helped.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       12-31-2010, 3:26 PM Reply   
I only paid $450 for my P229. Use those superior reasoning skills to shop around! LOL
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-31-2010, 5:21 PM Reply   
As 2010 draws to a close I nominate SamIngram - in an out of nowhere performance - as troll of the year.
Rob must be on a ski trip but even he is not as over the top as Sam.
Congratulations Sam....
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Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       12-31-2010, 6:44 PM Reply   
Sam is not crazy because he carries a gun, He carries a gun because he is crazy.
Old    paul. (imx)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-31-2010, 8:38 PM Reply   
What an absolute mess. To live in a country where at any point on any given day you pass people carrying loaded firearms for no reason other than self protection in who knows what state of mind. Give me a society where (other than sporting use) only police and criminals have them and I would bet my chances of encountering a deadly situation are next to zero. Unfortunately the plug has been pulled a looong time ago there and the water is spinning faster and faster down the drain.By the way, i was a long time shooter
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       12-31-2010, 8:58 PM Reply   
So its New Years Eve, and I have had a few,

But I'm gonna go out on the limb here and just say jeramywake77, you annoy me. I lurk a lot, because most of the time I see no reason to state my opinion. It seems like all you do is start arguments on here with your radical leftist bull. I feel like you're just kinda a douche. Sam, i support your argument 100%. We carry a gun at times on the boat because one of my lakes is pretty sketchy. I always expect my car to be broken into when i come back to trailer. So Jeramy, If we carry a gun, that doesn't, mean we are going to use it but it sure doesn't hurt to have. I know you don't get that, but you don't have to go questioning someones dick size.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-01-2011, 7:43 AM Reply   
Well, I'm sorry that I annoy you and maybe the alcohol has put you in a place where your comprehension skills rival those of a third grader.

A. What part of my posts are "radical leftist bull"? I don't have a problem with the 2nd Amendment, and if packing heat is something you choose to do, that is YOUR right. But because I choose not to carry a gun (as a matter of fact, I haven't owned a firearm in close to 10 years), it doesn't mean that I'm liberal, it simply means that is MY right, and it doesn't make you any more American than me.

B. I'm sorry that you think that I am a "douche" simply because I think it is a bad idea to take a gun to a ski slope, but everyone but you and Sam seem to share my opinion, so I guess that makes everyone on here that doesn't support Sam's choice a douche as well, why are you singling me out?

C. My dad carried a gun on the boat when we were younger, he may still do it. But he didn't carry a shotgun as Sam chooses to do, and I am guessing that you don't carry a shotgun either on your boat.

D. The whole penis thing is a cliche. I'm sure you have heard an example at some point in your life. i.e. "you know what they say about a man with big feet..." or "he bought that expensive car to make up for something else". And when you and Sam speak about it in a literal manner, it sends two messages: 1. You have absolutely no sense of humor 2. Maybe you have some repressed sexual frustrations and you may need to speak to a professional.

Happy New Year.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-01-2011, 8:05 AM Reply   
And P.S., I am done with this topic, it has gotten way off base and has nothing to do with "Skier Dad".
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-01-2011, 8:43 AM Reply   
i agree this thread has gotten way off base. the father could have gotten knocked out by the mma snowboarder.then some kids could have found the gun he was packing and accidently shot sam [because they didn't know how to use a gun properly] when he didn't see it coming.locically i could see it happen. maybe we should make a movie about it . it could happen logically.maybe.sorry no newspaper support on this opinion. but it could happen.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-01-2011, 4:32 PM Reply   
Sam, I think you are smart to carry everywhere.

IMO it's just a tool, similar to an avalanche beacon. Is that stupid to carry? Sure, you probably won't need it, and you hope you never do. Better to have and not need any tool, than to need and not have it.

Those who can't see it as such are just gun paranoid and part of the problem.
Old    E Double U (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-01-2011, 9:53 PM Reply   
But what are you really going to do if someone threatens you and wants to fight? Are you really going to pull out a gun and shoot them?

Lets say someone is breaking into your car in a random parking lot and you walk up and see it happening to your car, are you going to pull out your gun and shoot him???
You just can't go around pulling out your gun to thrwart off a threat or worse shoot someone!!! Im pretty sure you will be going to jail much faster than the guy stealing a stereo out of your car!!!

Am I wrong here?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-01-2011, 10:04 PM Reply   
Just gunna start this out with the idea that you are all f***ing nuts.

Double U,

The idea is not to shoot them, but to ward them off if necessary. You don't even have to pull it out of the holster a lot of times, if you make it obvious that it's there, they won't mess with you or your stuff. Concealed carry has more to do with the fact that people would freak out if you didn't conceal the gun. If you're carrying it in a place where it's obvious though, no one's going to mess with you, unless say, they are crazy and plan on shooting everyone, then they may go for you first, assuming they're that logical. I live in an area where everyone has shotguns and rifles in their trucks all the time, but they aren't the ones who kill people. It's the crazy people who do stuff out of passion with knives, or the meth heads that run around this area. I guarantee there are people who have handguns in their possession when they come into the movie theater that i work at. Does it scare me? No. If it did I should be terrified of everyone, because anyone could have a weapon hidden on themselves legally or illegally. The people who get concealed permits are the ones who generally won't break the law. If someone wants to kill people, chances are pretty good that he doesn't give two sh*ts if his gun is concealed legally or not. That's all I'm going to say on the discussion

Jeremy

I know what people say about guys who have big feet... They wear big shoes!



Number 1 Skier dad went over the top and set a terrible example for his kids, while claiming he was doing what he was to protect them. Plain and simple. If anyone can argue that he was in the right here, I'd love love love LOVE to hear the explanation.
Old     (jabilitator)      Join Date: Dec 2010       01-01-2011, 11:28 PM Reply   
SWVA Nick, haha, we all carry. That doesn't mean I go out to a SKI SLOPE with a gun. Even saying that sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure where you guys are, maybe Nick can vouche for meth head VA, but I've never felt the need to have a firearm handy. I've been uncomfortable in a ton of places, but the views of a couple people in this thread are absurd. Not everyone is out to rape and pillage every person they look at. I know it's only a handful in this thread preaching their paranoid views, but seriously. It started with a guy being an ******* on the slopes and now it's turned into a gun debate...REALLY? If you honestly feel the need to pack a pistol on the hill, then good luck and stay the f away from me. I ride to free myself from stress. Whether its water, snow, surf or skate your ridiculous and in the wrong sport if you feel a firearm is necessary for any of those.
Old     (jabilitator)      Join Date: Dec 2010       01-01-2011, 11:41 PM Reply   
Can't edit.....
Skier dad obviously french fried when he should have pizza'd......which means you're gonna have a bad time.
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-02-2011, 6:41 PM Reply   
Since some have posed the question: you cannot pull your weapon and shoot someone over property. Technically if someone punched you, you can not pull the weapon. At least in Tn, the law is you must be in fear for your life. And that measure can be different for a 95 lb woman or a 225 MMA trained fighter. I have taken the course and appreciate the risks involved to carry a weapon. Pulling your weapon to scare someone from a property theft is foolish and can lead to negative results. Pointing your weapon, even if you do not have your finger on the trigger, can result in assault charges for you if your life is not in danger. In Tn, you can apply for separate permits to use handcuffs and detain individuals (not sure if anybody can or just those in security). At that point you can try to detain a property suspect, but can not use deadly force again. I carry at times and get the rationale. It's like having a spare tire or jumper cables, you probably will never need it but it sure is nice if you have them when you do need them. We had a family friend shot outside a theater when I was young and that has always reminded that bad things can happen just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time( this was outside a nice mall and movie theater btw). I am not paranoid, but do believe that stuff happens. I go about my life and enjoy whether I am carrying or not.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-02-2011, 7:25 PM Reply   
perfect example. back in school a guy told my brother he knew karate and was a blackbelt. my brother punched him in the mouth and knocked him on his arse in front of the whole gym class.it would be the same if you had a gun and someone MORE serious than you had a gun. they would just shoot you and ask questions later. you would be dead but happy knowing you felt protected up until you died.stuff happens whether you carry a gun or not.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-03-2011, 8:40 AM Reply   
The only time a gun should come out is if you intend to shoot it.Otherwise you're just a hack.
Old    Hammer (97sunsetter)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-04-2011, 7:18 AM Reply   
This thread has gotten completely absurd... all in opposition to Sam, please make a list of appropriate places to carry a handgun. Any logical person would see that there is really no difference between carrying a weapon on the ski slopes or on the boat (where there is no way in hell you could get help in time if it was necessary) and carrying in the mall or while walking down the street (where help could arrive in seconds). To me, there is absolutely no difference at all besides geographic location.

P.S. I'm pretty sure if somebody decided they were going to rob you and you politely informed them that you had a weapon, they might change their mind rather quickly.
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       01-04-2011, 8:46 AM Reply   
I dont know about you all but where I ride/boat I dont have to worry about getting robbed or raped. But they thats just me!
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-04-2011, 9:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
And look around, not one person on this board has thought that carrying a gun on the slopes is a good idea.
Im gonna step out on a limb here.....I can't find one topic that I can disagree with Sam on in this thread. So no sir, Sam does have at least one in agreement with his point of view.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-04-2011, 11:44 AM Reply   
I really want to hear the story of why Sam feels the need to carry everywhere he goes. perhaps if he stars another thread, and shares this story, I may feel differently.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-04-2011, 12:53 PM Reply   
I am also in support of Sam carrying wherever he fells the need. I tend to agree with most of what Sam posts. I think his delivery is questionable and his choice of venue could be better.
Old    SamIngram            01-04-2011, 1:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttrigo View Post
I really want to hear the story of why Sam feels the need to carry everywhere he goes. perhaps if he stars another thread, and shares this story, I may feel differently.
"UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES" BY JOHN ROSS Read the chapters August 14, 1971 and August 15, 1971

My family member was doing the exact same thing.... jogging. He received 68 stitches to his lower body and is now under psychiatric supervision at a hospice. - VERY BAD NEWS!

No one will call you up in the morning and tell you what day you are going to need a gun, but one day, chances are that you will need one or could greatly benefit from one. You will never know which day; therefore, I carry every day.

The nonsense and ignorance that I have seen in this thread is amazing!

This is my favorite post so far,
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
"given a situation where someone was threatening another's life we would be willing to risk our freedoms to protect that life"
Sam,so if a gunman held up the cash register at the ski resort, you would "intervene" to save a life? in reality your just going to make things worse.
If I had nothing more than a toothpick, and someone's life was actually in danger, I would intervene and I hope and pray that someone would do the same for me.

I have learned through experience, intellectual study, and legal research that

THE POLICE HAVE NO DUTY TO PROTECT YOU AT ANY TIME!!

Read that again, no one has the duty to the protect you, no one! Most people just hope that someone intervenes. I have cited the main case law that supports this statement previously in this thread.

I don't even think about wearing my gun, it's natural now. I don't worry about it, or worry about society, or fear for my life, or anything else. I am actually a much nicer person as a result of wearing the gun and I have more confidence too. I have never pulled it out of the holster, but here in AZ we have both concealed carry and open carry and I have made it very obvious that was carrying on several occasions. Numerous times while in the desert hiking either alone or with someone else, especially in the Pipe Organ National Park. That article is from 2004, I was there a month ago and camped for two days.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-04-2011, 3:31 PM Reply   
Sam, you are the ignorant one, if I am running the cash register and am held up at gun point, I do not want you to intervene with your "I gotta carry a gun where ever I go" attitude. I will handle the gunman myself, I do not need your vigilante attitude and you would probably get me killed.
You must live in an area infested with crime, and I do not blame you for carrying a gun for protection. Attacking a jogger is just insane, whats the motive? I don't know any joggers that carry money on them.
Old    SamIngram            01-04-2011, 3:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
Sam, you are the ignorant one, if I am running the cash register and am held up at gun point, I do not want you to intervene with your "I gotta carry a gun where ever I go" attitude. I will handle the gunman myself, I do not need your vigilante attitude and you would probably get me killed.
You must live in an area infested with crime, and I do not blame you for carrying a gun for protection. Attacking a jogger is just insane, whats the motive? I don't know any joggers that carry money on them.
No sir, you are the ignorant one! You clearly said that the person's life is in danger... if you are simply being robbed I will let the guy rob you and never intervene. If the robber kills two people while walking in the door before robbing you, I am going to do whatever I can to stop him from killing you too. You said, "to save a life", I know the difference...

He was not mugged for money... it was for sex and probably a gang initiation.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-04-2011, 4:07 PM Reply   
I have never heard of the gang that makes you rape a dude to get membership. Was he attacked by an aspiring member of the Village People?
Old    SamIngram            01-04-2011, 4:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I have never heard of the gang that makes you rape a dude to get membership. Was he attacked by an aspiring member of the Village People?
Happens all the time... the officers said it wasn't about sex, but power.

Teen charged in gang-initiation rape

Careful...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-04-2011, 4:54 PM Reply   
Jeremy,
Sam has gone through the proper channels and cleared all background checks- there are many. Sam is a law abiding citizen who is exercising his right to defend himself and it would be cool if you respected that. I'm certain Sam respects your right to not carry a firearm.

Sam, you have my apology, I didn't mean to stir a hornets nest. I was being by turd taking a stab at you. I'm with you.. but, I think you should tone it down a bit as it really does make you look like a crazy to others.
Old    SamIngram            01-04-2011, 5:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
Jeremy,
Sam has gone through the proper channels and cleared all background checks- there are many. Sam is a law abiding citizen who is exercising his right to defend himself and it would be cool if you respected that. I'm certain Sam respects your right to not carry a firearm.

Sam, you have my apology, I didn't mean to stir a hornets nest. I was being by turd taking a stab at you. I'm with you.. but, I think you should tone it down a bit as it really does make you look like a crazy to others.
Thanks Barry!

You don't understand though, I don't care what others think of me, but that they just start to think in general.

Last edited by SamIngram; 01-04-2011 at 5:06 PM. Reason: I spelled something wrong...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-04-2011, 6:19 PM Reply   
Sam,

I can appreciate you not caring what others think of you, I am the same way. I think it would be better if you were more careful to not re-enforce the stigma attached to being armed with those who are against it. It's not doing the rest of us any favors.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-04-2011, 6:53 PM Reply   
fyi, its hard to get into a CCW pissing match on here because the rules are different everywhere. I'm fortunate to live in TX where we have a particular disdain for criminals. Here you CAN protect your property.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-04-2011, 7:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I have never heard of the gang that makes you rape a dude to get membership. Was he attacked by an aspiring member of the Village People?
The odd thing about the choice of the jogger story is that it's clear from the narrative that the jogger never saw what was coming. The attackers would have found and taken the gun before the jogger had a clue. If the jogger had a gun I'd say he would have likely suffered a worse outcome.

A very recent story was in the local news about a robber and a store clerk getting in a gun fight. The result was one customer dead.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-04-2011, 8:01 PM Reply   
Sam,so if a gunman held up the cash register at the ski resort, you would "intervene" to save a life? in reality your just going to make things worse.
Nowhere did I say the cashier was in danger, "clearly", No, you assume the guy with the gun is going to kill and you were wrong! The gunman is not going to kill anyone, in your mind you think you are saving a life, which in fact you make it worse. The gunman did not kill anyone yet and by intervening you kill the gunman and the cashier get killed by the gunman, way to go! Don't change the scenario, The gunman did not shoot 2 people coming into the ski resort, gunmen don't work like that. The gunman is holding a gun on the cashier just to get the money out of the cash register. Again the gunman didn't kill anyone, in your mind you jump to the conclusion and think someone's life is in danger and you pull your gun and make the situation worse!
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-04-2011, 9:07 PM Reply   
^^ lol. I don't think there's many other conclusions to come to when fella wielding a firearm demands money. It's not a just a prop. Regardless, I'm not leaving my fate in the hands of a criminal hoping he'll allow me to live. If that's your gig, I respect that.
Old    Hammer (97sunsetter)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-04-2011, 9:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
Sam,so if a gunman held up the cash register at the ski resort, you would "intervene" to save a life? in reality your just going to make things worse.
Nowhere did I say the cashier was in danger, "clearly", No, you assume the guy with the gun is going to kill and you were wrong! The gunman is not going to kill anyone, in your mind you think you are saving a life, which in fact you make it worse. The gunman did not kill anyone yet and by intervening you kill the gunman and the cashier get killed by the gunman, way to go! Don't change the scenario, The gunman did not shoot 2 people coming into the ski resort, gunmen don't work like that. The gunman is holding a gun on the cashier just to get the money out of the cash register. Again the gunman didn't kill anyone, in your mind you jump to the conclusion and think someone's life is in danger and you pull your gun and make the situation worse!
HAHA you should write fiction books because that's the most outlandish scenario I've ever read. You can't just make things up in an attempt to make other people look bad.... This post reminds me of those "adventure" books I used to read as a kid... "If you would pull your gun and save the man turn to page 63, If you run away turn to page 15"

Last edited by 97sunsetter; 01-04-2011 at 9:35 PM.
Old    SamIngram            01-05-2011, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
"given a situation where someone was threatening another's life we would be willing to risk our freedoms to protect that life"
Sam,so if a gunman held up the cash register at the ski resort, you would "intervene" to save a life? in reality your just going to make things worse.
You asked if I would "intervene" to save a life", you didn't ask if I would intervene to save the money in the register... You tried to bait me and failed. I later tried to provide an answer by making it clear that I would intervene to save a life, not the money and not to stop the crime. This is basic CCW 101.

You are intellectually dishonest in your argument.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-05-2011, 10:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
You asked if I would "intervene" to save a life", you didn't ask if I would intervene to save the money in the register... You tried to bait me and failed. I later tried to provide an answer by making it clear that I would intervene to save a life, not the money and not to stop the crime. This is basic CCW 101.

You are intellectually dishonest in your argument.
You need to reread what he originally wrote. The "intervene to save a life" was joeshmoe questioning the deduction that intervening in the robbery was "intervening to save a life". He wasn't baiting you and you failed to correctly intrepret his post.
Old    Keith (rkg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-05-2011, 11:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
"given a situation where someone was threatening another's life we would be willing to risk our freedoms to protect that life"
Sam,so if a gunman held up the cash register at the ski resort, you would "intervene" to save a life? in reality your just going to make things worse.
If you read this entire quote, it would appear Joe's scenario was based off the scenario of a life being threatened.....
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-05-2011, 11:19 AM Reply   
You guys are all in too deep.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-05-2011, 11:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
If you read this entire quote, it would appear Joe's scenario was based off the scenario of a life being threatened.....
That entire quote wasn't his. Joe quoted Sam. It's obvious that Joe was questioning that intervening in the robbery was helping save a life, by countering it was making the situation worse. Basic reading comprehension if you ask me. If I wrong then I'm sure Joe can correct me.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-05-2011, 1:41 PM Reply   
"A very recent story was in the local news about a robber and a store clerk getting in a gun fight. The result was one customer dead." now this is what happens when you start (or finish)a gunfight, innocent people die.
This is all I'm trying to say about the gunman holding up the cashier at the ski resort.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-05-2011, 2:46 PM Reply   
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...ties-crossfire
Old    SamIngram            01-05-2011, 2:59 PM Reply   
Accidents happen...

The argument is dumb...

For every article you find for a homicide I'll show you a statistic where someone defended their life and or property and stopped themselves from being a victim.

These stories are generally not written about, but happen every day.

Who is the one living in fear...
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-05-2011, 3:09 PM Reply   
Sam, help me out here. With respect to your link, are we to assume that you are saying that an armed homeowner could have prevented this? Maybe I missed it, but your link doesn't even mention if the homeowner was present during the invasion.

I guess a bystander's life lost during a gun battle is less meaningful when a gun owner is able to successfully able to defend their "life and or property".
Old    SamIngram            01-05-2011, 3:16 PM Reply   
This is fun...

'Fed up' 82-year-old held alleged thieves at gunpoint

2 suspects caught in northwest Harris Co. after car failed them

Homeowner shoots man breaking in dog door

Homeowner Shoots Suspected Kidnapper

Judge Floerke thwarts suspect after home break-in

Blount County woman shoots husband in self-defense

Police: Baldwin Man In Wheelchair Shoots, Kills Teen Intruder

Let me know if you want more...
Old    SamIngram            01-05-2011, 3:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Sam, help me out here. With respect to your link, are we to assume that you are saying that an armed homeowner could have prevented this? Maybe I missed it, but your link doesn't even mention if the homeowner was present during the invasion.

I guess a bystander's life lost during a gun battle is less meaningful when a gun owner is able to successfully able to defend their "life and or property".
NO, NO, NO!

What I am saying is that for every article that you find where an innocent person is killed due gun fire I can find another article where an innocent person is killed by some other means. Accidents happen, not just with guns.

It's terrible that an innocent person died from shooting them thinking they were shooting a robber. One of the first things that you are taught is to identify who you are shooting at. There are thousands of cases where a family shoots another family member in the dark. These accidents shouldn't negate all the other cases where the firearm actually saved the person using it...

In the article posted the person doing the shooting is probably guilty of a crime and I WOULD NOT defend their actions. Identify the target...
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-05-2011, 3:34 PM Reply   
Sam, this is where I disagree with you. Handgun safety courses will not prepare you for the emotions and adrenaline that you will feel during an actual shootout.

A well known statistic:

"a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than it is to kill in self-defense."
Old    SamIngram            01-05-2011, 3:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Sam, this is where I disagree with you. Handgun safety courses will not prepare you for the emotions and adrenaline that you will feel during an actual shootout.

A well known statistic:

"a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than it is to kill in self-defense."
Depends on the school and who is teaching the class.

I would challenge you to support that statistic... what is the old saying about statistics?

90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time or something like that.

I think what I learned in the military prepared me for the emotions and adrenaline... I also think the courses I took at Gunsite Academy and at Front Sight (don't buy a timeshare though...) would both prepare a person pretty well. If you take a course from Bob down at the YMCA, that's your problem...

A responsible gun owner takes courses regularly, practices, and even competes. I know I have gotten a hell of lot better since shooting steel every Tuesday night.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-05-2011, 4:40 PM Reply   
"I would challenge you to support that statistic... what is the old saying about statistics?

90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time or something like that."

I would almost go along with that, but this is what you said about 45 minutes earlier:

"For every article you find for a homicide I'll show you a statistic where someone defended their life and or property and stopped themselves from being a victim."

You know it is illogical to offer to produce a statistic supporting your argument, and then when someone offers a statistic (the statistic I posted is from Kellerman) you debunk the argument because of your lack of trust for statistics. Either that or, you only recognize statistics that substantiate your beliefs.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-05-2011, 4:57 PM Reply   
Jeremy,
You'd better go back and research the Kellerman Study if you're going to use it in an argument. The study has been debunked by numerous inquisitors as well as Kellerman himself.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-05-2011, 6:13 PM Reply   
Very interesting you brought that up Barry:

"In 1996, lobbyists for the National Rifle Association began pressuring Congress to eliminate the CDC’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC) which had funded much of Kellermann’s research."
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-05-2011, 6:18 PM Reply   
^From Wikipedia. It never mentions Kellerman "debunking" his 1986 study unless you call this debunked:

(from his 1993 follow-up to criticisms of his work in 1986)
"These results confirmed the 1986 finding that, in the net, a firearm in the home represents a greater risk overall than the protection it may offer against intruders, either indirectly or by discouraging potential assaults. Kellermann noted that the study demonstrates the pervasiveness of domestic assault, as compared to better publicized crimes such as home invasion, but continued to stress the role of handguns in increasing the lethality of such assaults."
Old    SamIngram            01-06-2011, 8:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"I would challenge you to support that statistic... what is the old saying about statistics?

90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time or something like that."

I would almost go along with that, but this is what you said about 45 minutes earlier:

"For every article you find for a homicide I'll show you a statistic where someone defended their life and or property and stopped themselves from being a victim."

You know it is illogical to offer to produce a statistic supporting your argument, and then when someone offers a statistic (the statistic I posted is from Kellerman) you debunk the argument because of your lack of trust for statistics. Either that or, you only recognize statistics that substantiate your beliefs.
A statistic, as in an occurrence (i.e. he's just another statistic). Don't try to parse words with me, I'm stuck taking two classes learning to the do just that.

You have to use arguments such as this because there are NO valid arguments against carrying a gun.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       01-06-2011, 9:08 AM Reply   
I think this thread is a valid argument against carrying a conversation that goes absolutely nowhere despite it lasting for over a week.

Bravo!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-06-2011, 9:18 AM Reply   
Whatever Sam. To say "there are NO valid arguments against carrying a gun" is very pompous of you and really makes you come across as a condescending a-hole.

With your line of thinking, you should ask for a full refund for you "Logic" class. Because there is very little correct logic in how you view yourself and the world.
Old    Nickbot (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       01-06-2011, 10:14 AM Reply   
good lunchtime read today...i agree with sam and carry 100% of the time where legal...if anyone can tell me the times i'll be 100% safe and absolutely won't need it i'll change my mind...
Old    SamIngram            01-06-2011, 10:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Whatever Sam. To say "there are NO valid arguments against carrying a gun" is very pompous of you and really makes you come across as a condescending a-hole.

With your line of thinking, you should ask for a full refund for you "Logic" class. Because there is very little correct logic in how you view yourself and the world.
Again, your position is so weak that you descend to attacking me personally, calling me names again... Your side resorts to this so often it's funny...
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-06-2011, 12:40 PM Reply   
Nickbot, you are NEVER 100% safe, even carrying. The police carry ever day. Sometimes, they get shot.

But I digress. I still say that all of you are in too deep. Provocative reading but, consistent with Small Light's comment, I could come back in a week and the discussion would be in the same place. Time for the dead horse jpg?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-06-2011, 12:42 PM Reply   
The only place I carry is in church. A guy got shot in a church once.
Old    Nickbot (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       01-06-2011, 12:57 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=ottog1979;1652965]Nickbot, you are NEVER 100% safe, even carrying. The police carry ever day. Sometimes, they get shot. QUOTE]


true...but, they continue carry...as do I...just in case I need it...
Old    SamIngram            01-06-2011, 2:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
The only place I carry is in church. A guy got shot in a church once.
Good idea, at least it's a start. You should consider carrying elsewhere though...

Church Gunman Brought 76 Shells and Expected to Use Them

6 Shot At New Life Church; Gunman, 2 Churchgoers Dead

Gunman Crashes Church Service, Wounds 2 Teens

Teen girls raped at church, police report says

Man attacks woman in church parking lot
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-06-2011, 3:02 PM Reply   
This is not a thread about carrying guns for protection, I would not even get in that argument. This thread is about ski resorts. To even have a reason to carry a gun at a downhill ski resort, you would need a reason to do so and it appears that the only reason some people carry is because there are other people that have a gun there so they must have a gun too! This appears to be very illogical, so the only reason that the paranoid individual who carries the gun while skiing would be because they think that someone is after them for some transgressions caused to another individual.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-06-2011, 4:29 PM Reply   
^Either that or they are just scared that someone might beat their ass.

Sam, all of the stories you post, WTF? You are speculating that having a gun would always make the story have a different ending, but the truth is, carrying a gun MAY or MAY NOT have changed the outcome.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-07-2011, 4:59 AM Reply   
Joe, why is a ski resort any different than any other random place? Its simple protection against the unknown. The unknown can happen anywhere. Why does anyone care where a licensed person carries?
Old    Joe (jcfox00)      Join Date: Mar 2009       01-07-2011, 10:06 AM Reply   
^May or May not have changed the outcome?

In a life threating situation I'll take my chances on may having changed the outcome thanks...
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-07-2011, 2:47 PM Reply   
Jeremy, wouldnt you prefer to have the option of trying to change the outcome?
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-07-2011, 5:08 PM Reply   
"why is a ski resort any different than any other random place?"
because Sam has not given one example where a customer was shot at a downhill ski resort.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-07-2011, 5:23 PM Reply   
Does one have to have an example in every location in order to justify it, or is the fact that the need for one could be anywhere, and downhill ski slopes do fit that criteria enough?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-07-2011, 5:36 PM Reply   
I never in my life thought that a topic I started would get over 2500 views, but by golly it's happened! Thanks Sam and Jeremy for completely derailing the topic and making my post wildly successful. Such a happy moment in my life.


Bahahahahahahahaha.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-07-2011, 11:41 PM Reply   
I have been following this and this is rediculous.

The only guns i need are attached to my shoulders.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-08-2011, 9:37 AM Reply   
one thing no one has mentioned is fate. you can't control fate. example you are sitting on a toilet in a public restrooms when a drug addict with a gun comes in . he then kicks in the door shoots you and robs you. #1 he didn't know or care whether you were carring a gun or just had big guns. he wanted to rob you and have no living witness.THIS IS FATE . it's like what you were doing on the toilet. IT HAPPENS. it's not logical or planned it's random and gun or no gun your still DEAD. but the good news is you will be in a newspaper article or maybe even a post on the internet.I PERSONALLY DON'T CARE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CARRY.I JUST WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND YOU CAN'T PLAN FATE.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-08-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
Look guys,

Sam has the right to carry a handgun on his person here in the United States. He can carry it where he pleases, including on the slopes. If it makes him feel safer or more secure it's his prerogative. He has this right and everyone preaching to him that he is insane and wrong is way off base here. Paranoia/a glass half empty attitude can be generated by a lot of things, including negative life experiences, which is something that has seemed to happen to Sam (he's hinted in some posts). Nonetheless, he has gone through all of the legal means of getting a concealed carry permit so that he can carry a sidearm and feel secure.

Everyone against him has the right to not carry a handgun on their person's here in the United States. You don't have to have one anywhere. You feel perfectly safe as it is, and it's your prerogative. Sam is defending his right, a right that you clearly don't believe that he should have. Well tough sh*t. He has the right courtesy of the Bill of Rights and because he obeyed the law. Stop telling him he's wrong and let the man carry. Just stop now. You aren't going to change his mind and all that you're doing is inflaming opinions on this board.

Now. Shut up. Shut up shut up shut up.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-08-2011, 2:48 PM Reply   
"example you are sitting on a toilet in a public restrooms when a drug addict with a gun comes in . he then kicks in the door shoots you and robs you. "
did this killing happen at the ski resort?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-08-2011, 8:09 PM Reply   
JOE. If he wants to carry a sidearm at a ski resort, it's his freaking choice. Stop. You're not going to convince him. Just STOP.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-08-2011, 11:10 PM Reply   
nick. if he wants to keep posting in this thread, it's his freaking choice. stop. you're not going to convince him. just stop.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-09-2011, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
I have been following this and this is rediculous.

The only guns i need are attached to my shoulders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeboardern1 View Post
Bahahahahahahahaha.
.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-09-2011, 6:41 AM Reply   
i have guns that are over 50 years old [attached to my shoulders] . do they qualify as antiques?LOL

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