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Old    Ben B (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       12-14-2010, 9:19 PM Reply   
Wow.... video in the link.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/14/...ex.html?hpt=T1

(CNN) -- Clay Duke sat quietly through the first portion of the Bay District Schools, Florida, school board meeting Tuesday afternoon as local children were honored for their achievements.
When it came time for citizens to bring up issues, the 56-year-old resident calmly approached the front.
He spray painted a red "V" with a circle around it on the wall, brandished a small-caliber handgun and ordered the room cleared at a Panama City schools building.
"Six men stay. Everyone else leave," the burly gunman said.
Moments later, Ginger Littleton, a board member, returned to the room and swung a purse at him. She ended up on the ground after the two struggled. The gunman cursed her, but did not open fire and he let her leave the room.
Someone was going to die, he said.
At that point, Duke, as seen on the dramatic live internet feed provided by CNN affiliates WJHG and WMBB, began a rambling discourse that included the apparent firing of his wife and sales taxes.
The confrontation ended in the gunman identified as Duke calmly firing at the school officials, being wounded and, according to police, taking his own life.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-14-2010, 11:39 PM Reply   
It's pretty nuts. The other videos on other sites have a wider angle and you can see he must have meant to miss - he's pretty much up in their faces.
Old    Ben B (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       12-15-2010, 8:41 AM Reply   
Yeah, that or pretty intoxicated or on something, just the way he raises the gun you can tell he's on something.. Plus his second shot is on accident it looks like, he fires it into the ground and kinda jumps out of surprise.either way, intentionally missed or not, there were some lucky people in that room. The board members were so calm about it, too. now we wait and see how long til the gun control debate starts in here

Wide angle vid Wes was talking about : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21SRgqRCqbQ
Old    SamIngram            12-15-2010, 8:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by benbuchholz View Post
Yeah, that or pretty intoxicated or on something, just the way he raises the gun you can tell he's on something.. Plus his second shot is on accident it looks like, he fires it into the ground and kinda jumps out of surprise.either way, intentionally missed or not, there were some lucky people in that room. The board members were so calm about it, too. now we wait and see how long til the gun control debate starts in here

Wide angle vid Wes was talking about : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21SRgqRCqbQ
I doubt he meant to miss, he was high on adrenalin. This is why, if you carry a gun, you should practice and practice until it becomes second nature or instinct.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-15-2010, 11:16 AM Reply   
I agree Ben. He should have been able to walk in there with an Uzi or a rocket launcher, then he could have got the job done.
Old    SamIngram            12-15-2010, 1:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I agree Ben. He should have been able to walk in there with an Uzi or a rocket launcher, then he could have got the job done.
If guns didn't have the stigma that they do, when confronted with a gun, the natural response would be to pull out your own gun and defend yourself. That is what I will do.

Since the Declaration of Independence says our rights come from GOD and says that they are inalienable and the Constitution was formed in order secure those rights given to us by GOD, any form of gun control is unconstitutional.

Do you know where gun control comes from in the US? It has its history rooted in racism. After the Civil War many states, cities, etc.. made laws that restricted guns to all people, but were only enforced on black people. These were a part of the Jim Crow laws.

From Unintended Consequences, by John Ross, page 128
Quote:
Now Walter broke in. 'That's why bigoted people passed the laws about voting and about guns, Henry.
These bigots don't want negroes being able to protect themselves. They didn't want them voting for
legislators that had their interests in mind, and they didn't want them having guns in their pockets when the
lynch mob was coming." He thought a moment. "The law Al just described also gives the police an excuse
to stop negroes on the street and check them for guns. Actually, it gives them the excuse to do that to
anyone, but they don't do it to whites, as a rule." Yet Walter Bowman added silently to himself.
"Since Henry brought up the subject of long guns, I assume you know that the St. Louis police have
requested that gun dealers not sell firearms of any kind to colored people," Al interjected. "And that's pretty
much the standard police policy throughout the state."
Do you know why we can't have a machine gun, sawed off shotgun or a silencer? Because the revenuers couldn't catch old man Miller for making illegal alcohol and instead prosecuted him with the National Firearms Act of 1934. Read United States v. Miller Old man Miller didn't show for the first court date, he was Hill Billy after all. He then died and no one again showed for his appeal.

But go ahead, keep thinking how safe you are and how the government is and will protect you...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2010, 1:19 PM Reply   
Did you have to, Sam?
Old    SamIngram            12-15-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
Did you have to, Sam?
Yes... actually you should blame the guys above...
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-15-2010, 1:48 PM Reply   
Do you think the GOD that granted us our rights would be happy with you blowing away people?
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       12-15-2010, 2:00 PM Reply   
As sad as the "Jim crow laws" are and debate of how or who to shoot, I'm gonna have to side with Sam on this.
Old    SamIngram            12-15-2010, 2:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Do you think the GOD that granted us our rights would be happy with you blowing away people?
It doesn't matter what I think about GOD... you seem to get hung up on the idea that it is my opinion that GOD created our rights. My opinion doesn't matter, I am referring to what is WRITTEN in the founding documents of this country, if you agree with it or not, they are the founding documents and is what our country was formed on.

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…
You also seem to get hung up on the religion.... the majority of the founding fathers were Deists.

From wikipedia:

Quote:
Deism (pronounced /ˈdiːɪzəm/, US dict: dē′·ĭzm)[1][2] in the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that a supreme being created the universe.
They didn't believe that a god was watching over us that we should do certain stuff to please the god or that god controlled everything that happened. They believed in natural law.

Natural Law would support the idea of self defense, and if blowing someone away was necessary for self preservation, then so be it.
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       12-15-2010, 2:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
I doubt he meant to miss, he was high on adrenalin. This is why, if you carry a gun, you should practice and practice until it becomes second nature or instinct.
I couldn't agree more with this statement. Men & women in the line of duty have reported on experiences with armed encounters and armed defensives. The relativity they have is when that adrenaline hits, your on high alert; your bodies action/reaction time is heighten and you're succumbed to severe tunnel vision. Practice practice practice and be prepared if you carry, cause when something like this happens to you. Be ready to defend your family and yourself. Because by the time your cavalry arrives. It will be too late.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-15-2010, 2:33 PM Reply   
Hey man I don't have a problem with responsible people owning guns. I grew up around guns and qualified, Expert, twice, at Ft. Knox. I have a problem with psychotics that decide to blow away innocent co-workers or school board members and then people like Sam sticking up for the universal right to own guns.
Old    SamIngram            12-15-2010, 2:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Hey man I don't have a problem with responsible people owning guns. I grew up around guns and qualified, Expert, twice, at Ft. Knox. I have a problem with psychotics that decide to blow away innocent co-workers or school board members and then people like Sam sticking up for the universal right to own guns.
So you think that someone should decide who has certain rights and who doesn't?

One of my favorite quotes:

Pastor Martin Niemöller

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-15-2010, 4:53 PM Reply   
^When it puts other peoples lives in danger, you're damn right I do.
Old    Jagermaster (jaegermaster)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-15-2010, 5:50 PM Reply   
Reason number 4,579,331 that I carry.

It is unfortunate that guns do not know right from wrong. It is also unfortunate that some people with guns do not know right from wrong. Until guns can make decisions for us, or people quit being bad, I'll carry.
Old    Ben B (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       12-15-2010, 9:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I agree Ben. He should have been able to walk in there with an Uzi or a rocket launcher, then he could have got the job done.
I'm confused? How is his agreeing with me, when did I say something implying that? I'm thinking you might have read something I said the wrong way.

I'm all for the right to carry guns. Too many psychos out there. I'm assuming this board meeting was in a "gun free zone". But look at that, a gun got in. Had I been in this board meeting, I'd way rather have someone who's possibly carrying than no one in the room carrying because of gun control. When it comes down to it, psychotic people are going to get guns and use them if they try hard enough. I'd rather have people carrying to protect than not. The chances of it ever even being an issue, slim. But still
Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       12-16-2010, 6:40 AM Reply   
I'm waiting to see some video of a crazy pulling a gun on innocent people and someone carrying pulling out a bigger gun and lighting them up with nobody else harmed.

I do support my state where you can carry concealed.
Old    SamIngram            12-16-2010, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^When it puts other peoples lives in danger, you're damn right I do.
You are too damn funny.... Just who would decide who could carry and who could not, Hitler??

Or are you the only one in the room professional enough to use guns...

Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-17-2010, 7:22 AM Reply   
Pretty sad that if the gun man had been sucessfull in killing the board members the anti gun people would be all over this.
IMO this shows how diffrent the out come can be if some one other than the cops have guns And Shoot Back.
Awesome job to the securty gaurd. I hope he can forgive himself for having to blast a Roach. I saw him on tv today and he looked pretty sad for having to blast the gun man
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-17-2010, 9:33 AM Reply   
"Just who would decide who could carry and who could not, Hitler?? Or are you the only one in the room professional enough to use guns..."

Man, I don't know. Did I ever say I have all of the answers? I haven't owned a gun in about 12 years, so no, I am not "the only one in the room professional enough to use guns..." I just think that many are under the illusion that peace can be achieved through superior firepower. Tragically, most of the time, these stories don't end with the "hero" winning the shootout, they end with innocent bystanders losing their life.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       12-17-2010, 10:22 AM Reply   
Houston Store Owner Kills 3 Would-Be Robbers

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/17...est=latestnews

HOUSTON -- Police say a Houston jewelry store owner has shot and killed three men who tried to rob his business.

Houston police spokesman Kese Smith says two men were in the store Thursday afternoon pretending to be customers when a third man burst into the store and stated, "This is a robbery."

All three men then pulled out pistols, tied up the store owner's wife and took her to a back room.

They were trying to tie up the owner, when he took a handgun from his waistband and fatally shot one of the suspects. Smith said he then grabbed a shotgun and shot and killed the other two suspects.

The store owner was shot in the stomach and taken to a Houston hospital. Smith says his wife was not hurt.

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