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Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-05-2010, 9:45 AM Reply   
So I've posted on here a few times about my truck. It is an 09 F 250 and it has been in the shop over 6 times in the past 4 months for the same issue. I was having issues with it blowing white smoke and it continued to go into the regen cycle. The last time it was in there they replaced an injector and the DPF sensor. Well I have had it back for close to a month and now I'm having the same issues plus it is idling very rough and feels under powered The truck has right under 30,000 miles and at this point I'm getting a little frustrated with the truck being in the shop almost every other month. Any suggestions on what to do or what to say to the dealer this time?

Chris

Last edited by worththewake; 12-05-2010 at 9:47 AM. Reason: correction on wording
Old    Razzman (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       12-05-2010, 9:53 AM Reply   
Tell them you're declaring and filing it as a lemon if it's not corrected this time.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-05-2010, 10:34 AM Reply   
Sell it and buy a Chevy?
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-05-2010, 12:20 PM Reply   
I'm not sure if it will qualify for the lemon law because of mileage and how long I've had it. I'm contemplating a chevy but I know I will be taking a huge hit financially with this truck.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-05-2010, 12:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyb View Post
Sell it and buy a Chevy?
thats would be alright, but they are so ugly
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-05-2010, 2:16 PM Reply   
Yep. Nothing uglier on the road than a new chevy.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-05-2010, 4:36 PM Reply   
It is a FORD...what did you expect?

Fix it, sell it and get a cummins if you want to stay with a diesel.
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       12-05-2010, 5:26 PM Reply   
I love GM but I did have a lemon with them in 05. My 2005 GMC sierra was a POS. If I remember correctly if it had the same problem more then three times under warrantty it qualified. In my case it had tranny issuses and they tried unsuccessfully 4 times to fix it and in the 6 months i owned it, it spent 4 months at the dealership. They gave me all the money I paid back including the rebate money,I actually walked away $3,500 ahead! They also paid for the add ons, i had exhaust and window tint. They refused at first to lemon law it so i contacted the BBB Autoline which is actually the first step and arbitration was set up between me and GM. The day before we where suppose to meet at the arbitration GM called with the settlement. A week latter they got there truck back and I got a check. Not a week after that they mailed me a gift certificate for $1500 off the purchase of any new GM car or truck! I ended up buying a new Chevy Silverado and getting an LT and 4wd for less money than my LS 2wd. Worked out great in my case. As a side note I got a call from GM, turns out the truck had a bent crankshaft that was tearing up the trannies!
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       12-05-2010, 5:27 PM Reply   
Find a new dealer. Threatening to file a lemon law will not help, as most service advisers and managers are familiar with the law, and it doesn't cover a vehicle that's not being diagnosed accurately.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-05-2010, 6:19 PM Reply   
Robert, the advantage you had was the fact that you only had the truck for 6 months, I'm close to 16 months into mine. Mike guess I could go to a different dealer but then I could be screwed because at least my current dealer rents me a car. I guess if they can't get it fixed this time then I have no choice but to go to a different dealer. Thanks for all the input!
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-05-2010, 7:32 PM Reply   
Check the Lemon Law requirements in your state. In Cali. you would certainly be a prime candidate to win but the laws vary from state to state I believe. Tell them they have one more chance to get it right or you'll file. Don't make it a threat, make it a promise.
Old    Mark Manzo (tazz3069)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-05-2010, 9:36 PM Reply   
I have a Dodge 2007 6.7L Mega Cab POS. I am having the same problems. First repair, on their dime, $13,000 @ 26500 miles.. 2000 mile later, new turbo, 700 miles later, new tranny, 2300 miles later new turbo, new wheel bearings. When I get it out, I am taking both Dodges either to the Chevy or Ford Dealer for a trade in. My warranty ends this January. I will be damn is I am going to pay for repairs is Dodge has now Idea what is wrong with the truck. Haven't tried the Lemon Law thing yet. I did send a letter to Corp. no response. I send emails, no response. I gues they do not care. Good luck with your decision on your new truck
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       12-06-2010, 10:25 AM Reply   
TigeMike "it doesn't cover a vehicle that's not being diagnosed accurately."

Tige Mike thats precisely what its for! Its for vehicles they can't fix or figure out what is wrong with! If they knew what was wrong it would have been fixed and they'd be done with it!


Chris, here is California's Lemon Law info:

"It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle"

"same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents"

or

"The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer"

In Ohio the rules are a little different:

They fall under the National "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"

"It requires automakers to repair defects that affect the use, value, or safety of a new motor vehicle within the first 12 months or 18,000 miles (whichever comes first)."

" You are covered by this law even if the problem was discovered late in the protection period and the repair attempts extend beyond one year or 18,000 miles"

If you can answer yes to one of these questions your vehicle qualifies as a lemon!

Have three or more attempts been made to repair one problem and then the problem occurs again?


Has the vehicle been in the shop for 30 days or more during its first year or 18.000 miles?


Have eight or more attempts been made to fix different problems that impair the use, value or safety of the vehicle?


Has one unsuccessful attempt been made to fix a problem that could cause death or serious injury?

Just a little of what I found on a quick internet search!
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       12-06-2010, 10:42 AM Reply   
Bummer..... All the car companies let a bad one slip out here and there. It's a bummer if you're the guy that has to deal with it. Good luck.

At the very least you could complain diretly to ford. The dealer represents the company. You may get them to send a rep out to look at it. I know it's that way with BMW if their dealer techs can't find a fix.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       12-06-2010, 12:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Its for vehicles they can't fix or figure out what is wrong with! If they knew what was wrong it would have been fixed and they'd be done with it!
Robert,

The lemon law is to require the manufacturer to buy back a vehicle for reasons other then the incompetence of the dealers technicians.

Now, that's not to sat that the manufacturer wont buy is back for the sake of good customer service, but the state will not deem it a lemon because the shop has unqualified, untrained technicians.

We are all plying armchair mechanics here, as we have limited info on what has been done on the previous visits, but I stand behind my OP, threatening or promising to file a lemon law case will not magically get it fixed. I would just go to another dealer and bring all the past service work orders with you. It may also be worth it to get in touch with the manufacturer's service rep for that area.

Good luck to the OP
Old    Seth Rozic (RedRum)      Join Date: Nov 2010       12-06-2010, 12:11 PM Reply   
Ford: At least they circled the problem in a blue oval on the front of the truck....
Old    Greg McNeill (greg2)      Join Date: May 2002       12-06-2010, 5:12 PM Reply   
07 GMC sierra with 5.3.. don't get me started on the warranty/issues...I don't have enough time!
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-06-2010, 5:28 PM Reply   
I think it is safe to say that all trucks have their problems. I have a 2001 Tahoe with a 5.3L and I just rolled 195k miles and the only thing I have had to do is change the water pump and other scheduled maintenance. I am sure that there is someone with my exact same truck that had problems within the first 36k miles.

Just remember when dealing with customer service / warranty folks ---- You attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-06-2010, 5:32 PM Reply   
.....but the squeeky wheel always gets the grease!
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-06-2010, 6:16 PM Reply   
Ok so here is the latest update....dropped it off earlier today and got the rental lincoln town car! After asking the service manager if they could go ahead and replace all the injectors he kindly told me no because ford would not warranty them if nothing was wrong. Ok so I go talk to the finance manager whom I know and he states "Just give us a chance and we will get it right" So I just let it be and I go back this afternoon to get a heads up and talk to the sales man whom I bought the car from. We start talking and all of the sudden I see my truck drive back into the lot. The service manager took it out for a 60 mile ride on the highway and he couldn't "reproduce the issue" Needless to say during the winter my miles are all city and not highway. I simply tell him this and he states that he will attempt it tomorrow. So now back to my sales person, I discuss the situation further and I briefly entertain the thought of them buying my truck back and getting an '11 model until the number he shoots at me would put me $14,000 in the hole....needless to say my thought process stopped right then and there. So now it has become a waiting game.

I do appreciate everybody's input and assistance with this situation. TigeMike, they have attempted to fix a DPF issue and injector at least 5 times now, the problem gets fixed for a few thousand miles then it happens again.....idle's horrible, attempts to go into the Regen cycle, feels underpowered then blows white smoke. Has happened the past three times that they have fixed it! The last time, they replaced the DPF sensor and an injector...
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-06-2010, 6:26 PM Reply   
Chris, my cousin just traded in his 08 F-250 for an 011, and paid the same price, $14,000. It's ridiculous. New diesels are $60K now.

I'll stick with my 06 LBZ.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-06-2010, 6:32 PM Reply   
I know, I thought $14,000 was a little ridiculous! I'm also waiting on the GM whom had shoulder surgery today to get back in the next two weeks because "he is the one that can really work out a deal for me" How does your cousin like the new truck?
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       12-06-2010, 7:07 PM Reply   
Well if you do decide to get another truck be sure to run the price as close a possible. It will take a little time a effort but it will be really worth it. Do your homework on edmunds.com and go to the forums for the vehicle you are looking at. Then search for 'Prices paid'. Also Edmunds and costcoauto.com will have the invoice prices. You should be able to beat costco prices but if the dealer is above costco prices then they are wasting your time. Also Consumer reports will sell you the invoice and option costs but I have found it not to differ much from the two places I have mentioned. Where they get you is the accessories either at the factory or add ons. Be sure to discount the dealer installed add ons ie: wheels, mudflaps ect.. at least 15% which is what you can argue to the dealer that is given to people via parts dept flyers that are mailed from most places. Just a thought. Don't let them tell you they don't discount the "hot" models because they do. No dealer prep and Document fees should be less than $150 in most states. $400 to $500 over true dealer invoice is a good place to start. Just my opinion.

Last edited by packrat; 12-06-2010 at 7:12 PM. Reason: Wording
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-06-2010, 8:44 PM Reply   
When he first told me about the truck it was 10X better then the 08, but that's within 2 days of buying. A month later I haven't talked to him to see what he thinks now, but I'm sure he's happy with it. The 08 gave some problems this summer, something about needing a new radiator? can't remember what it was but it was big money.
Old    Adam Fullmer (adam4x4)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-07-2010, 6:50 AM Reply   
The lemon law will still apply to your tuck. it has to be under the first warranty which i think is 36,000 miles, also has to do with how many time it was out of service and days. ford bought back 2 trucks from me 05,and a 06. now i have a 03 with the 7.3 I have heard a lot of good things about the 11's, my friend has one with 12,000 miles on it and never had a problem yet.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-07-2010, 4:33 PM Reply   
Adam, Thanks for the insight! I've sent you a PM because I have a ton of questions. Packrat, thanks for the help! John, on a side note, tyler never got back to me

Chris
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-07-2010, 5:43 PM Reply   
Did you ever talk to him to start with? Try the shop again and if that doesn't work I'll try to call them myself. Tyler and I are on a local forum, I'll PM him tonight.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-08-2010, 6:18 PM Reply   
Update..........nothing! The dealership can't get the truck to "reproduce the problem" but they have been driving it around or so they say
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       12-09-2010, 6:34 AM Reply   
Carry a video camera with you in your truck and document the problem next time it happens. Get all of your service records from the dealership. Then, call a local lawyer and lemon law it. The lawyer fees will probably be much much less than having to fix or replace the truck. I almost bought a used ford diesel last year and I'm sooooooo glad I didn't after hearing the tons of problems these trucks have. I ended up with a used Dodge 2500 CTD and I've had zero problems and get 18 mpg with 35'' all terrains.

I'm an attorney in Chattanooga, and I even had a lady call me a few months back wanting to lemon law her 2008 F250. However, she wasn't willing to pay anything to get it done.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-10-2010, 2:43 AM Reply   
Chris, I ran this by a guy I know in Poseyville hoping he could help out, and he said he knew you.... Small world.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       12-10-2010, 10:48 AM Reply   
A local friend of mine is going through the lemon law process with his motorcycle. It has been back 3 or 4 times for the same issue and the dealer can't fix it. Ohio is actually pretty good at protecting the customer and he will get a new bike out of the deal.

As far as lemon law not covering an "incompetent tech", in Ohio that is not the case. You are taking your truck to a Ford dealer, not some backyard mechanic. They are supposed to be factory trained/certified and have been unable to repair your truck despite several attempts to fix the same problem. Call a lawyer and get your truck bought back for the dollar amount you paid under the lemon law, you can even have your legal expenses reimbursed. Otherwise you will be stuck with this truck that is going to nickel and dime you to death and that nobody will want to buy from you.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-10-2010, 11:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg2 View Post
07 GMC sierra with 5.3.. don't get me started on the warranty/issues...I don't have enough time!
Yea, but it's got a damn nice front bumper on it!
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-10-2010, 7:23 PM Reply   
John, let me guess...Big Hawg Customs.....we shall discuss that issue later...I picked the truck up today from the dealer with an "on the go flight recorder" which hooks into my computer and when I start having the issues I'm suppose to hit a button and it records everything going on. Needless to say, they had it a week and nothing happened for them. I find it ironic they only drove it 167 miles and couldn't get it to duplicate the issue. I've contacted the BBB and started the Lemon Law process. I will soon be an expert!!!!! Thanks again for everybody's help

Chris
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-11-2010, 5:38 AM Reply   
Now I'm curious to hear about Big Hawg Customs.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-11-2010, 10:01 AM Reply   
Jeremy, nothing bad, just getting ahold of him, and he is a friend of mine, is like pulling teeth! You know them?
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-11-2010, 1:45 PM Reply   
I've been emailing Mark about a few things. I think he mentioned he's had a lot of problems at his farm lately. That's been keeping him off of the replies.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-12-2010, 3:41 PM Reply   
I had good results with a call to Ford's Customer Service line, and my dealer went above and beyond to get my truck fixed when it was past the warranty period. Have you contacted Ford Customer Service?
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-12-2010, 4:55 PM Reply   
Meathead, No I haven't; thought that I would give the dealership the first shot at it. If it will help I can call them tomorrow.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-28-2010, 6:12 PM Reply   
UPDATE: Well, it spent a week in the shop no such luck getting it to act up therefore I've got a computer on it right now that will monitor the computer for any issues. It hasn't acted up for me thus far but then again it hasn't gone through a REGEN cycle yet. Talked to the GM of the dealer, his plan is to ask Ford for an extended warranty for the truck and if Ford isn't willing to help me out with this then he wants to appraise my truck and "work our a deal" on an '11. Also, I would like to share this text I got from the owner of Big Hawg which is a local "shop" that I bought the cold air intake from that I have been trying to return since I started having these issues.....this is his reply when I told him that I was going to run the intake by his shop and he could pay me whenever he wanted to...""Hey man. Hope you had a great Christmas! How's the truck doing? Any luck getting it figured out? Wanted to wait till today to see what my schedule would look like, looks like I will be at the farm most all day. Holidays make it tough around the farm cuz all the routine stuff has to be done in fewer days. As for the intake, just curious why you were still wanting to get rid of it? Its evident now since you still are having issues that its not caused by the intake. Therefore just curious why you'd still like to return it. You are more than welcome to drop it off but I would need to inspect it to ensure everything is there. Then I will post it for sale. Once it sold I would send you your refund for everything above my cost on the unit. I can't lose money on the intake as its obvious the intake was not the source of the problems with your truck. I will get you everything I can for it though. I can only give you full credit for the intake towards something else if desired. I will do everything I can to help you out. If you are interested in a lift, wheels, tires, or anything I will hook you up with an extra special deal. Just let me know bud"

I politely suggested that this was no way to run a business and good luck in the future. Def wouldn't trust him to install a headlight in my truck let alone do a lift, wheels, or anything else. He does have me curious what an "extra special deal" is.

Last edited by worththewake; 12-28-2010 at 6:14 PM. Reason: wording
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       12-28-2010, 6:57 PM Reply   
HaHa, that rocks. Maybe a "Extra Special Deal" is a HJ with some lithium grease from your U-Joints that he stole from your truck when you bought the intake. Wow. BTW I can post it for you on craigslist for a small fee too.
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-28-2010, 7:36 PM Reply   
WoW! Don't we all wish that was the way things worked? I would stay as far away from that shop as possible. That guys has no freakin clue!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       12-29-2010, 5:47 AM Reply   
Hard to f up a wheel and tire package through. I'd return that intake and have him get you a set of tires or wheels at cost - your store credit.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-29-2010, 8:45 AM Reply   
I can see why you're frustrated, but why should he take the return on your used part? It doesn't sound like the part was the problem, and the part wasn;t defective, and you made the decision to modify your truck. If he let people return used parts when they changed their mind, he would be out of business for sure. Not trying to take sides, but that doesn't make business sense.

Did I miss something?
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-29-2010, 10:26 AM Reply   
Guess I was clear as mud. I initially put the intake in, ran for close to 50 miles, check engine light came on, took it to the dealer was told to take the intake off; had it off since. Mark, the gentleman, told me to bring it back for a refund....every time I attempt to contact him or take it to his place he always gives me an excuse such as in the text mentioned prior...always has to do with how busy he is and his farm. I'm not asking him to take it back with over 10,000 plus miles on it or anything
Old    Mark Manzo (tazz3069)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-16-2011, 6:57 AM Reply   
I posted a while ago about problems that I was having with my 2007 Dodge 6.7L Diesel. The dealer could not fix it and the Lemon Law would not take care of me. In Vegas, you have one year from purchase to file a clam. Well the last time that I took the truck in, 6 times in 4.5 months, to get the Turbo fixed and a grinding noise the did not fix, again, the problem was still there. As I drove off, I heard the grinding noise. I turned around to see my service rider. Got a hold of the tech that worked and the truck and went for a ride. He did hear the noise and stated,"Its a 4wheel Drive. They all make that noise." I told him that it has never made that noise in the 3.5 years that I had it. He said that there was nothing he can do. Warranty will not cover the troubleshooting of the problem. I said thank you and took him back to the stealership. Left there and went straight to the Chevy dealer. They gave me $30K for the trade in and I drove home with a new 2011 2500 Duramax HD. I am very happy with it. Later that week, I got a call to do a survey on the work performed on the Dodge. I told them exactly how I feel about the service and the product. In the post above I stated that they never responded to my letters. Now I am getting phone calls, letters, and emails asking for my business back since I state that this was my 5th Dodge product. Funny how that works. My wifes Aspen is working strong. It has a Hemi in it and has never been in the shop. Now I am a new Chevy owner and am very happy.
Good luck with your choice in trucks. I am sure that ou will make the right decision. I know I did. I just got very tired of getting the run around. By the way, the first repair bill was $13K covered by warranty. If warranty did not cover, then it would have cost $18K. Thats $4K more than I owed on the truck.

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