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Old    Eric Chile (ericchile)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-09-2010, 6:49 PM Reply   
So i have been thinking about getting an end of year boat deal.

I am really attracted to EPIC with some of the new feature that they are doing. Couple of questions for those that might have one...

Why did they switch form the Volvo to the Mercrusier engine?
What octane fuel needs to be run with both engines?
I know the wakeboarding behind the EPIC is great, but how about wakesurfing?
How does it compare to the Enzo 230?

I would say we will be spending 70% surfing, 25% wakeboarding and 5% tubing, is the EPIC the boat for me?

How is it on reliability (nearest dealer is 4 hours away).

Thanks for the input!!!
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-09-2010, 6:57 PM Reply   
I would say go with the ENZO both boats are great but the enzo is a surf machine both boats are built at the same factory relay cant go wrong either way
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-09-2010, 7:02 PM Reply   
I don't think that I have ever seen a surf wave from an Epic......hopefully someone will post one up.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-09-2010, 7:02 PM Reply   
Really depends on what your doing with the boat.
Epic's are not really known for there surf wakes and enzo's are kind of one sided generaly forming a good surf wake opposite the prop rotation.
If you guys need to surf both sides a tige would be better.
If you guys are big wake boarders the epic would be my choice.
If you surf one side only the enzo is the boat for you.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-09-2010, 7:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by formfunction View Post
........enzo's are kind of one sided generaly forming a good surf wake opposite the prop rotation.....
Watch these videos of a regular prop Enzo.
(goofy) http://wake9.com/community/content.php?252
(regular) http://wake9.com/community/content.php?269
Enzo's make great waves on both sides. Just pick the prop rotation that you will use most of the time for one of the best waves in the industry.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-09-2010, 7:35 PM Reply   
^^^X2 on the Enzo.

From what I have heard, the Epic surf wake is very short and steep. Off of the top of my head, I would look at Centurion (Avy/Typhoon/Enzo), Tige 22/24, Sanger 237, Supreme 226

Last edited by lakesurfer; 08-09-2010 at 7:37 PM.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-09-2010, 7:38 PM Reply   
I have an 09' Epic. I've been over every inch of this boat. I absolutely love it. Check out the Epic mod thread for a lot of info.

Epic switched engines pretty early on. I would say it was the best move they could've made. The Volvo was plagued with problems. The Merc is nothing short of amazing. It's got so much torque it's almost unbelievable. I had 5000# of ballast one time and it jumped out of the hole like nothing. And another cool thing is the twin rudders. I've can't imagine anything else handling like this boat. Even when fully loaded, it still turns on a dime.

It takes 87 octane.

As you know, the wakeboarding wake is second to none. As of last week, I was starting to get frustrated with the surf wake. That's all changed now. This boat needs to be weighted unlike any other boat. It seems weird, but it actually needs a ton of weight up front. Now that we figured it out, I couldn't be happier with it. Because of the way it takes weight, it runs a lot flatter. We had an awesome wake, and we ran at 3200rpm. Did I mention that I'm super excited about this surf wave?

I don't know anything about the Enzo

If you tube at all, this boat is amazing. I really believe you could kill someone with this boat(if you wanted to I mean). I always set the cruise at 18-20mph. With the way it handles, and all the torque it has, it never loses speed. It really is fun to tube behind.

Reliability is top notch. You don't have to go all the way to a dealer. Any Merc dealer can help you.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

If you do decide on an Epic. Check out Billy Smith in NC. He can beat any price period! He's also a super cool guy that would stop at nothing to make sure your happy. Tell him I said what's up!
Old    Eric Chile (ericchile)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-09-2010, 7:41 PM Reply   
Yea no doubt the surf wake on the Enzo is sweet.

So the real question is ... which is worse the wakeboard wake on the ENZO, or the surf wake on the EPIC. If I get the Enzo will I be disappointed with wakeboarding, or if I get the EPIC will I be disappointed with the surf?

With 4000 pounds of ballasts you would think the Epic would put out a nice surf wake too right?

UPdate:
Joe you beat me to the post. That is very good info!

Last edited by ericchile; 08-09-2010 at 7:43 PM.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-09-2010, 7:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesell View Post
........We had an awesome wake, and we ran at 3200rpm. Did I mention that I'm super excited about this surf wave?....
Pics please.
Old    ScottRobinson            08-09-2010, 8:05 PM Reply   
Yeah 2011 (First 2011 off the line no less) I have it. Anyway Joe and I are over on the EPIC MOD thread alot. This boat is amazing. I tell my wife I love her everyday and right after that I tell my wife I love my boat too!!! lol

Where are you located? That is the first thing....if you don't have a dealership in your area hit me up first.

Second...Joe is RIGHT ON with everything. Surf wake is great, wake boarding is super nutz and tubing (which we do a ton cuz of have 4 kids under 8yrs old) is great with this boat. The MERC motor is by far better than what was in the originally. If you are near me I would love to give you a pull. Please hit me up I have pics of my 2011 I can share as well as give you much more info on the 2011s.

Lastly I would say, the EPIC price point for what you get with a brand new one totally makes buying anything else just retarded. (Not knocking on anyone's boat here guys, just my opinion) Hit me up Eric.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-10-2010, 7:43 AM Reply   
How good of a wakeboarder are you? Serious question. If you are only a beginner to intermediate rider, the wakeboard wake on the Epic can be very intimidating and it's tough to make a small wakeboarding wake. The Epics are nice wakeboarding boats, I ride behind one a couple of times a month and the wake still scares me. The surf wave is no match for the Enzo IMO and you will have to buy additional ballast for the Epic if you want a good surf wave and then spend a lot of time dialing it in. The answer to your question is to go out and drive both boats and ride behind them like you would if you owned it and I think the question will pretty much answer itself. They are both nice boats!

Personally, I'm a Tige guy right now for the surfing aspect
See this wave:
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782406
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2010, 7:49 AM Reply   
Can you fully weight the Enzo with just the stock ballast?

I have a buddy with one at Crescent Bar & his can't even get out of it's own way when the ballast is full. The dealer told him it's made to run 1/2 full, one side or the other.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-10-2010, 9:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_airjunky View Post
Can you fully weight the Enzo with just the stock ballast?

I have a buddy with one at Crescent Bar & his can't even get out of it's own way when the ballast is full. The dealer told him it's made to run 1/2 full, one side or the other.
Something sounds wrong, like engine or prop issues.

I can run with +3000#s in the boat with my ACME 1579 prop....
Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-10-2010, 9:46 AM Reply   
http://www.facebook.com/video/video....6015596&ref=mf

I am not sure if you can see it or not, but there is a video of someone surfing behind my epic. The wave hits him in the nuts as he falls back and he is about 6'2" tall. There is way more than enough to work with....
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-10-2010, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by samhanna View Post
There seems to be privacy issues with your link.
Old    Nic (_vitty_)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-10-2010, 11:05 AM Reply   
Granted I have not ridden behind an Enzo, all you seem to hear about them for is their surfing. Not once have I read something saying the enzo is great for wakeboarding. Take that with a grain of salt, but it is my experience from doing research prior to buying. I bought my Epic sight unseen based on 2 things and 2 things alone. 4000# of hidden ballast and the transom audio setup. My fiance hates hates and did i say hates ballast bags laying all over the boat. This boat solved that problem. I can load the thing down and not have a bag in sight. I also wanted to start enjoying the various wake sports(boarding, surfing) and figured with that much ballast I could tune and tweak the weight in the boat to cater to any of them. The transom audio must get 10-15 people a day at the party cove remarking on how cool it is. Besides the coolness factor, it is probably the most practical speaker setup as far as getting the rider loud and clear music without blasting people out of the boat.

When I bought the boat I had been wakeboarding a total of 1 time and surfing a total of 0 times. Without any weight in the boat at all the wakeboard wake is still large but I wouldn't call it intimidating for a newbie. When weighted the wakeboard wake is something to behold. No lie, it really is. I just started surfing this year behind the Epic on a liquid force custom which is a short skatey board. I could not stay in the pocket to save my life and no matter how hard we tried, we could not seem to get the surf wave dialed in. It was as someone previously mentioned, very tall and very short. After many attempts and now a lot of good info in the Epic Mod thread, we learned to put an extra 400lbs in the nose and run anywhere from 1/2 to full tank on the surf side in the rear. I am now to the point where I can ride ropeless for a little while on that small board no less. I probably have a total of 15 pulls on a surfer so I would consider that pretty decent. My friends can ride ropeless much longer than i can so I would assume that would equate to a nice surfable wake.

I have not tubed behind the boat, but I can only imagine how crazy that could get with such a big wake and such a fast turning boat. Yikes.

In closing, you won't be disappointed with an Epic at all and from my hours of research it was the best buy for me considering I wanted to do a smattering of all types of wake sports. I don't mean to rag on the Enzo by any means as I'm sure its a great boat too. Just not for me.

Last edited by _vitty_; 08-10-2010 at 11:09 AM.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2010, 11:11 AM Reply   
All these props to Epic on the Tubing wake is hillarious, are they going to come out with a tubing edition? Just what we need is some douche with 4K in ballast pulling tubes on the lake.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-10-2010, 11:45 AM Reply   
"Granted I have not ridden behind an Enzo, all you seem to hear about them for is their surfing. Not once have I read something saying the enzo is great for wakeboarding."

now that is funny. The reason you dont hear much about its wakeboard wake is because most people buy it for its amazing surf wake. This guy did say he was going to surf 75% of the time. The wakeboard wake on an Enzo is very good, just wide.

BTW, Here is a vid of Kyle Rattray wakeboarding behind his Enzo 230

http://wakeboardingmag.com/videos/20...on-enzo-sv230/

Last edited by lakesurfer; 08-10-2010 at 11:48 AM.
Old    ScottRobinson            08-10-2010, 11:48 AM Reply   
Hey NUBU, no one is giving "PROPS" to the "tubing" wake. We have kids bro.... of course we tube. If you didn't as a kid I feel sorry for you. So yeah, we are gonna talk about it. READ his post. This guy tubes as well. So relax man. We love our EPICS that is all we are saying. Tubing is part of having kids, agreed it isn't all that much fun for us as adults, but my kids adore it. If they like it I like it, becuase it leads to other things like wakeboarding and surfing. So just chill dude.

Nic is right. I bought mine sight unseen as well. I bought mine for almost the exact reasons.
1. Ballast is all hidden...amazing
2. I love the floor!!! That is a very cool feature having the floor made of foam. People talk about it all the time
3. The TRANSOM is amazing. Nic is right, I get sooooooooooooooo many people ask about the speaker and point and give me the big eyes. The coolness factor is pretty nice. It is loud as (@*# too...wow. Pullin into a cove and seeing people point and having them come up to you and ask is very nice. Great way to meet new people.


Hit me up if you want any more info. 2011 is the way to go, I can help.
Old    Nic (_vitty_)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-10-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
Not sure what you are trying to get at jkw....you said exactly the same thing as I did. Great surfing wake. I just didn't find much info out there on the wakeboard wake when I looked. The grain of salt you should take is that it may in fact have an awesome wakeboard wake. I just didn't find much on it.

Last edited by _vitty_; 08-10-2010 at 1:20 PM.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2010, 1:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRobinson View Post
Hey NUBU, no one is giving "PROPS" to the "tubing" wake. We have kids bro.... of course we tube. If you didn't as a kid I feel sorry for you. So yeah, we are gonna talk about it. READ his post. This guy tubes as well. So relax man. We love our EPICS that is all we are saying. Tubing is part of having kids, agreed it isn't all that much fun for us as adults, but my kids adore it. If they like it I like it, becuase it leads to other things like wakeboarding and surfing. So just chill dude.

Nic is right. I bought mine sight unseen as well. I bought mine for almost the exact reasons.
1. Ballast is all hidden...amazing
2. I love the floor!!! That is a very cool feature having the floor made of foam. People talk about it all the time
3. The TRANSOM is amazing. Nic is right, I get sooooooooooooooo many people ask about the speaker and point and give me the big eyes. The coolness factor is pretty nice. It is loud as (@*# too...wow. Pullin into a cove and seeing people point and having them come up to you and ask is very nice. Great way to meet new people.


Hit me up if you want any more info. 2011 is the way to go, I can help.
I think all boats tube and tear up the water equally well, just sayin .

I was the NW tubing champ 3 years running back in the day .
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-10-2010, 1:35 PM Reply   
Just wait buddy October 2nd is coming soon and kids to follow Costco tube is like $165
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-10-2010, 1:40 PM Reply   
@Nic: From the way I read your original post, you basically implied that if you were not able to find anything on the Enzo wakeboard wake it must suck. I searched for about 2 min to find the vid I posted. You must not have looked very hard when you were doing your research.

I must have just read your post wrong.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-10-2010, 1:43 PM Reply   
Eric - If you are surfing more than boarding then the Enzo is the way to go. If you do not want to spend that much coin, then look at the Avalanche. Epic boats are good for boarding and fixing up or adding things to the boat that most boats come with as standard. Look at the Epic mod thread and you will see what I mean. As for me, I cannot get over the nose on that thing, but I love the ballast system. Enzo's now have the same ballast and that is good. But you will not find any pro or regular surfer riding STOCK wake. Some weight will need to be added.

As for wakeboarding, they are right. The Enzo will not be that good of a wake for boarding. Will it do the job? YES. Will it be as good as the Epic, NO. But at the same time will the Epic be as good of a wake for surfing? NO.

If you are a mix of both, then the Avalanche is the way to go for both boarding and surfing.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2010, 3:43 PM Reply   
i had a vlx before my enzo 23 and we use to only wakeboard,, we surf alot now, well when the water is wasted its great to load up and surf for a few. i think sensitivity is the key. the enzo is soo forgiving in weight setup to board. it does not matter where anyone is sitting just fill it and go. it makes great board wake. lots of ramp and a nice lip, it is the easiest wake i have ridden. its smooth, flows and never washes out. my bu was really sensitive to weight and my buddies epic is as well. he rides our enzo more than his. i like his boat don't get me wrong, but i think most people overlook the entire package. the enzo is a great boat and has sooo much to offer. what is the water like where you boat? do you have alot of peep with you all the time? do you like to be able to cut through chop without loosing your teeth? there is no doubt that the enzo handles like a truck but who cares, it makes up for the ride and if you ride behind one, you will hands down agree that the wake is solid not soft. good luck
Old    ScottRobinson            08-10-2010, 3:55 PM Reply   
David-

Not sure I know what you mean when you say "Epic boats are good for boarding and fixing up or adding things to the boat that most boats come with as standard. Look at the Epic mod thread and you will see what I mean." I think that is TOTALLY wrong. We over on that thread LOVE our boats and just are tinkering with our boats. The only thing I believe it needs is the FAE. That is NOT STANDARD on any boat. Our boats come complete with WAY MORE than any other boat out there. Unless you want TV's that play and other crap.

I think you need to READ our thread first before you post something like that. Our boats need nothing and are far better STOCK then most other boats with ballast full.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-10-2010, 4:23 PM Reply   
Just go drive and ride behind them...internet debates can get ugly and the only way you will know which one is best for you for sure is to drive and ride/surf behind both boats. Good luck with your choice!
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2010, 4:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
All these props to Epic on the Tubing wake is hillarious, are they going to come out with a tubing edition? Just what we need is some douche with 4K in ballast pulling tubes on the lake.
Thats a prank I hope to pull on any one of my riding buddies some day...... swap out the decals on the transom of their boat that says "World Champion Tubing Boat".

I bet it stays there for weeks, maybe months before they notice it.
Old    BELEZA (beleza)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-10-2010, 4:49 PM Reply   
X2^^^^^
Old    BWillks            08-10-2010, 5:02 PM Reply   
If your liking to surf enzo is awsome! thats what i ride behind. An 08 Enzo 240
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-10-2010, 6:33 PM Reply   
Scott - Not to put the Epics down or anything, what I was trying to get across is that the boats are a great wakeboarding boat. When I said fixing up or adding things, I am talking about how the hatches have straps instead of turn buckles or latches. the glove box needing a spring to keep it open. Just the small stuff that you would figure come on a boat or that most all other boats come with. Granted the boats come with a huge motor and a couple of rudders that other boats do not come with. I know when I looked at them at the boat show, granted a couple years ago, I was not that impressed. Still today, I cannot get over the nose on that boat. To me and maybe only me, it is just plain ugly. but hen again there are a lot of other boats out there that are ugly too.

I am sure Scott, that your boat is maxed out with all the goods and that is great. but from what I have seen with my own eyes of the epic boats, it is lacking in a few areas. Again great boat for boarding, just not surfing compared to the Enzo. And since they are both made in the same plant and now they both have the pure vert system, I have to give Epic props for the ballast.

So back to his thread, Enzo vs. Epic (70% surfing and 30% boarding) Enzo all the way!
Old    ScottRobinson            08-10-2010, 6:58 PM Reply   
You might look at them again. 2008 was a long time ago.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-10-2010, 8:23 PM Reply   
Same old story,everyone sticking up for there pride and joy not accepting the fact that there boat is less than perfect or just passing on what they hear on the internet as fact.
I however don't currently own any of the boats in question and have logged hours on all.
Fact one,the famous enzo with its monster,killer wake is a one sided boat.It is true you can shape up the dark side but it takes a unrealistic amount of weight and still falls short of the good side.These are facts that every enzo owner knows first hand but have yet to hear anyone mention it.
Fact two,the epic with its great big pointy ramp of a wake serves our sport well and is adorned by there owners but when it comes to the surf wake you would be better off with a jon boat.The hull just doesn't have the shape to form a decent transition.
Don't get me wrong I would love to have both boats and am not trying to offend anyone but sometimes we have to take off our owners goggles and realize no machine is perfect before we can offer sound advice.
Old    Eric Chile (ericchile)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-10-2010, 8:58 PM Reply   
Decisions Decisions....

Thanks for everyone chiming in. It seems like I am on the right track to find a great boat that will hit the spot..
@Scott
I am in Utah... I would love to find an Epic to ride behind before buying. If your near I would gladly pay the gas.

@ Timmy
I am ok, I can go wake to wake and some grabs. But I am getting old.

@All
Thanks for the Pros Cons. But you guys didn't make it any easier. I like the idea of the Avalanche but don't like limit of 10. I have been behind a C4 Air Warrior and I wasn't in love with the wake or the surf wake with the stock ballast (but the beam on that is much smaller). I usually ride with either 4 or 12-14 depending on the hour. I guess it might come down to if I can find an Enzo or Epic at the better price, but leaning towards to Epic. If anyone comes across a lightly used boat that fits my needs feel free to PM me.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-10-2010, 9:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by formfunction View Post
....I however don't currently own any of the boats in question and have logged hours on all.
Fact one,the famous enzo with its monster,killer wake is a one sided boat.It is true you can shape up the dark side but it takes a unrealistic amount of weight and still falls short of the good side.These are facts that every enzo owner knows first hand but have yet to hear anyone mention it.......
I doubt that the Enzo that you have spent time on was properly weighted if you think it falls short on the "good side".

Which Enzo were you on? What was the ballast setup?
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-10-2010, 9:37 PM Reply   
I guess I don't read so good Brock.

Just because it may not be as good as the regular side due to prop rotation (happens to every boat) doesn't mean that the goofy side is lacking. It just means that the good side is really good.

Another angle of the "bad" side on a regular Enzo SV 240 with the champ riding it. It sure looks terrible....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPLG6...layer_embedded

Last edited by islander033; 08-10-2010 at 9:46 PM. Reason: poor reading..lol.
Old    Erik E (frodady20)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-10-2010, 9:53 PM Reply   
DO NOT BUY AN ENZO!!!!!! I own a 2009 Enzo SV230 with 57 hours on it, and its the biggest pile of sh@# EVER!! I know what all of you are thinking, but just hear me out. Im on my 5th Centurion, and all of them wher great boats. I live near Merced wher they are built and still cant get my issues worked out. I currently have a broken Metcraft tower, a cracked trailer tongue, upholstry that is coming apart, and bolts with brackets falling out! All this and cant get Shell Buchner from fineline to even retun my emails or my calls. Ask me and I think Fineline is a joke! Actualy you could ask me and about five people i have met on the river about ther Enzo's
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2010, 5:53 AM Reply   
Erick maybe you should look at your warranty bag centurion does not manufacture the trailer,tower,or the vinyl when I bought my Centurion I had to fill out multiple warranty cards as I am sure you did as well sounds like you are barking up the wrong tree.I have had zero problems with my boat.Sorry to hear about your tower as metcraft went out of business and sold the molds to XTP towers and left many customers with no where to turn same applies for the tower problems on the Malibu.Vm trailers is responsible for the trailer they are in your area try giving them a call,give the guys at XTP a call and ask nicely if their is any way they can help as they have helped a couple guys on the centurioncrew and the vinyl is covered by syntec for three years.We all have our favorite brand boats but many of us forget that the only thing made buy our brands is the hull everything else is made or assembled using another company's parts which comes with their own warranty I wish boat warranty worked the same way a new car warranty did meaning just take it to the dealer and it was all handled under one roof but fact is it is not that way yet some dealerships will work hard for you before and after the sale while others will only work hard at selling to you the marine industry has a way to go still but I think they are starting to take steps in the right direction JMTC
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-11-2010, 7:02 AM Reply   
@Eric - The Avalanche can hold 12 people and it is stated on the data plate. I usually have crew of about 8 that come out with me on any given day. Plenty of room on the boat to move around and have a good time. Good thing about having that many people on the boat, you do not need that much ballast for a great surf wake. But if needed, I can load it up with the ballast that I have in it now and sink the sides so low, that I have to put tape on the rear vents to keep the water out.

If I am not mistaken, Surfdad, and DJJames have/had an Avalanche and in most of his video's the water is coming over the back hatch it is so low in the water. Safe?? I think not, but since DJJames is a WORLD CHAMPION and won that behind an CENTURION AVALANCHE C4, I think that speaks volumes in itself.

@Brock - I think you have your facts wrong. You can get an awesome wake behind the Enzo on either side depending on the prop rotation. Centurion is the only company that I know of, and correct me if I am wrong, that you can choose the rotation to fit your needs.

@Erik - Like Harold said, you have to fill out the warranty cards for the boat. Each manufacture warranty's each part on the boat. You do not need to bash a company because it is not and all in one warranty. I do not think any boat company warranty's all of the parts on a boat since they use several manufacturer's.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-11-2010, 7:25 AM Reply   
"If I am not mistaken, Surfdad, and DJJames have/had an Avalanche and in most of his video's the water is coming over the back hatch it is so low in the water. Safe?? I think not, but since DJJames is a WORLD CHAMPION and won that behind an CENTURION AVALANCHE C4, I think that speaks volumes in itself."

Surfdad is dad of James Walker, owner of Flyboy and World Surf Champ. James Walker is not DJJames. DJJames owns a Centurion Cyclone I believe.

The final of Worlds was pulled by an Avalanche because the Enzo hit something under water and broke.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-11-2010, 7:32 AM Reply   
I'm trying really hard to stay out of this *** for tat thing. I just wanted to say that you can change the rotation on an Epic also. It's super easy, however, you'll need a new prop, just like any other boat.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-11-2010, 7:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesell View Post
I'm trying really hard to stay out of this *** for tat thing. I just wanted to say that you can change the rotation on an Epic also. It's super easy, however, you'll need a new prop, just like any other boat.
Got any pics or video of your surf wave(s) yet?
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-11-2010, 7:39 AM Reply   
Oh, and one more thing. I'd like to state again, I WAS concerend about the surf wave behind my Epic. Being 235#, it's hard get enough push with any boat. But now that we figured out the right way to weight it, I'm happy as could be. It's a pretty new boat, with a different hull design, of course it took some tinkering to figure out. But I surfed last week with now rope, and had a blast. All while running at 3200 rpm. That's not bad!
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-11-2010, 7:41 AM Reply   
Dennis, I don't have a video camera(besides my phone). I'll try to get some pic's tomorrow when we ride.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-11-2010, 7:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesell View Post
Dennis, I don't have a video camera(besides my phone). I'll try to get some pic's tomorrow when we ride.
That'd be cool
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2010, 8:36 AM Reply   
Also if you don't like the build quality of Centurion you will not like the epic either as it is built by centurion for epic
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-11-2010, 9:03 AM Reply   
Surfdad has a Tige 23V I believe.
Old    ScottRobinson            08-11-2010, 9:07 AM Reply   
Harold....You are wrong there....wow...funny how people think they know something. FINELINE made Epics for years, now however Epic has their own Manufacturing company and although I am not sure they are building yet (they just bought it) I know they are going too. I just bought a 2011 EPIC and I know for 100% fact that FINELINE built my boat. Centurion did NOT build any component of my boat my friend.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2010, 9:17 AM Reply   
fineline is centurion so sorry to tell you Scot you are wrong funny how people think they know something who do you think built the hull and did the assembly???answer Fineline industries AKA centurion
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-11-2010, 9:31 AM Reply   
"All these props to Epic on the Tubing wake is hillarious, are they going to come out with a tubing edition? Just what we need is some douche with 4K in ballast pulling tubes on the lake."

Best post I have read in weeks.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-11-2010, 10:07 AM Reply   
Epic used to have it's own building and people building there boats at one time. However, the economy took a nose dive and to keep Epic alive, they requested Fineline to build there boats for them. Fineline also builds Gekko in the Woodland plant. And before that I know they used to build for another company, and I want to say it was Tige or Supra. I could be wrong, but it was for another wakeboard company.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-11-2010, 10:11 AM Reply   
the other company's would be tige before they got their own plant and supreme who is now built by calabria
Old    J.B. O'Neill (gnarslayer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-11-2010, 10:14 AM Reply   
ENZO ENZO ENZO! yall say the wake boarding wake is bad? i deffinately think the wake is better than the epics both surf and wakeboarding... the wakeboarding wake is huge on the enzo with a great transition.... the wake is also big on the epic, but the epic wake is much too steep.... and surf is by farrrrr better on the enzo.

i dont ride either wake on a usual day so im not being biased towards the enzo, it is just better in every aspect in my opinion...

ENZO
Old    Colby Frost (dhv142)      Join Date: Oct 2008       08-11-2010, 10:15 AM Reply   
Enzo for sure! that boat is the surf king! plus you have tons of room and its so smooth! you wont be let down
Old    Colby Frost (dhv142)      Join Date: Oct 2008       08-11-2010, 10:28 AM Reply   
heres the wakeboarding wake. This is country singer jake owen behind the Enzo from CBK Watersports.
Name:  jake owen.jpg
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Perfect picture of an Enzo surf wake
Name:  SURF WAKE.jpg
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Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-11-2010, 10:44 AM Reply   
"I just bought a 2011 EPIC and I know for 100% fact that FINELINE built my boat. Centurion did NOT build any component of my boat my friend."

To funny, but to be fair, boat companies generally dont like to tell you another boat company is building your boat. However, H20King is correct, you buy a new Epic or Centurion, the same guy is building both of them.

@Scott: you can go here if you dont believe us that Fineline = Centurion. Take a look at the Centurion's contact info.

http://new.centurionboats.com/bin/Fline.html#view=20

Last edited by lakesurfer; 08-11-2010 at 10:52 AM.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-11-2010, 10:47 AM Reply   
Great! Now I have to find a 4' tall asian chick for my surf pic.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-11-2010, 11:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesell View Post
Great! Now I have to find a 4' tall asian chick for my surf pic.
LOL...couldn't hurt.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-11-2010, 3:53 PM Reply   
You guys better quit, Scott is gonna get pissed .
Old    Erik E (frodady20)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-11-2010, 6:20 PM Reply   
Just to answer those of you who are talkin about warranty cards! I have every warranty under the sun. Tje problem is, one ther is no dealership left here in the Sacramento area, and two fineline wont even return my emails or calls, as I stated in my post! Just to say I would never own a Fineline product no matter what name is on the hull!!!
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-11-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
That sux Erik.

I'll refer you back to what Harold said above.
Old    Eric Silva (getssum)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-11-2010, 9:21 PM Reply   
Erik -

Isn't Mello Marine in Rancho Cordova the new Centurion dealer?

11355 Folsom Blvd. Suite N, Rancho Cordova, CA 95742 (916)635-BOAT
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-12-2010, 6:42 AM Reply   
here is my take, I am a surfer, the Epic wave is not as good as the Enzo, The Enzo wave is not as good as the Supreme V226, especially on both sides, The Epic wakeboard wake is very good and better than the Enzo, The Supreme 226 wake is as good if not better than the Epic. The Supreme is only 22'3", both the Epic and Enzo are 23 or 24, Supreme did some real cool things with the interior and has more room than both in a smaller package. Pricing....Epic and Enzo are 65 base for 2010, 2011 Supreme V226, 60. So for 75% surfing, the Supreme will make you happy!
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-12-2010, 8:10 AM Reply   
This coming from a guy that is getting a brand new V226 soon........

Thanks for your unbiased opinion surffresh.....lol.
Old    John Davidson (Jdizzle78)      Join Date: May 2010       08-12-2010, 8:34 AM Reply   
Just a thought, couple weeks ago my lake rose quickly and washed in a bunch of debris, unfortunatley i sucked some of it up into my ballast pump and didnt realize it, long and short of it is that it burnt the pump and I didnt want to mess with it till the weekend was over, point is that we were able to surf (I am 6'3" 235 and ride a pretty aggressive board) as well as wakeboard with no ballast all weekend. Granted the wake was not what I have become accustomed to behind the Epic 23V but it was good enough to pull off the same ride. I had 3 guests with me 150lbs, 135lbs, and 205 lbs. the driver would sit midship on the port side and the two others would sit on the transom port side. no pics, you are going to have to trust me on this, I did have to change the normal trim setting to make the make a little steeper which shortened the pocket vs normal setup with ballast.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 3:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
This coming from a guy that is getting a brand new V226 soon........
LOL..what I was thinking.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-12-2010, 5:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
LOL..what I was thinking.
Don't get me wrong, I am biased as well. The difference is that I don't bash other makes of boats and I am typically looking for facts or defending my make of boat with facts.

Not like surffresh, that jumps into a thread that has nothing to do with his favorite boat (that he happens to deal) and says Epic and Enzo both pretty much suck. Then he procedes to shove his V226 down our throats.

Which I think is too bad, because I used to like that boat until he started to spam it all over WW.

He is nearly the Dan Dulong of surf boats IMO...LOL.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-12-2010, 6:35 PM Reply   
Never said any of them suck Dennis, they are all great, go back and read it, for the money....., how much do you wakeboard, how much do you surf, my opinion and thats it. I mean come on man, some of the threads did not even know that Fineline was making Epic. I live in Oralndo and deal with lots of pro riders from around the world.....year round, I know what riders like on wakes, boats, and waves and i am a prior Avalanche owner and Centurion dealer partner, I like Centurion but.....then again you know more and I am a bad guy for sharing, pardon me. I could have gone on and brought in Tige or Sanger, but then again I would feel real bad if I had to say that I thought that either had any better qualities than any of the above mentioned boats, because DENNIS is the authority here and our humble opinions are all bias, but he does have an ENZO in his profile. We could go on and on, some people like layout or a goofy wave, some like Nautique hardware and wakeboard wake. And yes here in Orlando Nautique is all I hear, this is or was a nice place to share.LOL at you IMO !
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-12-2010, 6:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
....because DENNIS is the authority here and our humble opinions are all bias, but he does have an ENZO in his profile. ...
I never said I was the authority and I did say I was biased. I never hid that I own an Enzo.

My point was and still is that you are a dealer and you are doing your best to get free advertising on this site....by bashing other boats and offering your product as better.

Stop spamming your product where it wasn't asked for or pay for your advertising like all the other legitimate businesses on here.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-13-2010, 5:49 PM Reply   
@Eric - bring sacs (2x750s and 1x400 should get you surfing/boarding any V-Drive) and test drive the boats you are interested in, then buy the one that suits your needs the best.
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-13-2010, 6:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by islander033 View Post
I guess I don't read so good Brock.

Just because it may not be as good as the regular side due to prop rotation (happens to every boat) doesn't mean that the goofy side is lacking. It just means that the good side is really good.
Why not say how much weight is required to make comparable waves on either side? It is widely known that the Enzo needs far more weight on one side than the other to make "good" waves. I've never liked that because if you're going to spend a bunch of money on a boat for surfing... wouldn't you want both sides to be as good as possible? I only bring this up because there is such a great difference in the wave from one side to the other with the Enzos.

It is true that many boats have troubles with this... but this is not true of all boats. Take the Avalanche and Sangers for example. I've consistently seen pictures of Avalanches killing both sides. In my own hands-on experience, I cannot tell the difference between the wave on either side of my Sanger 237.

If you're looking for a great surf boat, it would be more effective to spend your money on something other than an Enzo. Obviously, however, if you have to choose between an Epic and an Enzo, I would go with the Enzo for surfing... but that is just because the Epic does not surf exceptionally well altogether.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-13-2010, 8:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by taft View Post
Why not say how much weight is required to make comparable waves on either side? ............
My setup for goofy is: Enzo sac(~1400# on the short side)+750# on seat+ 300#bow+~400# in peeps no switchblade(I don't like the spray it throws on the goofy side).

My setup regular is: Enzo sac 1450# + 300#bow+~400# in peeps + full switchblade

PS. I have mentioned my goofy setup it in other threads...
I am not and I never have told anyone to go out and buy an Enzo. I will try to provide facts so as people can make an informed decision though.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-13-2010, 8:40 PM Reply   
@Andrew: any pics of your wave on your Sanger 237. I would really be interested in set up and pics. I hear good things, but have not seen or ridden one.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-13-2010, 9:13 PM Reply   
money was mentioned earlier.

DISCLAIMER - I have NOT done my homework on other brands base pricing vs options. I AM an EPIC owner and have been for 3+ yrs. I don't own a Fineline EPIC. I do not own a dealership. I do not have a vested interest in EPIC. YES I DO LOVE MY EPIC, lol.

Something that is always missed and has a good and bad effect.

For the 65k "base" mentioned for the EPIC 23V. Base for EPIC is loaded. There are no options unless you upgrade the sound from Kicker to Wetsounds or whatever, add more heater ports like Nic did, add more LEDs, I dunno what else you could add really. So the misconception is that you can get a "base" EPIC 23V for $65k.

I surf behind the boat and in the ocean, I love my surf wake. I've had lots of wakeboard and surf riders behind my boat of all skill levels and they love it. Most of them own their own boats and they still say my wake(s) stomp theirs.

There are plenty of pics in the EPIC Mod Thread of the both style wakes and what everyone is doing to upgrade theirs or dial it in.
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-14-2010, 12:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
@Andrew: any pics of your wave on your Sanger 237. I would really be interested in set up and pics. I hear good things, but have not seen or ridden one.
The one thing missing from my crew is a regular cameraman. I'll be in my boat one more time this summer, and I'll be looking to document the wave that I have been able to get out of it. Wish I had something to post up now though...
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-14-2010, 7:25 PM Reply   
Fred - So you got one that was built in Canada before it moved to the Fineline Industries Plant in Cali?
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-14-2010, 10:55 PM Reply   
David - correct. Haven't had any major issues with it. Had issues with Perfect Pass but everything else has been solid!
Old    ScottRobinson            08-15-2010, 6:40 AM Reply   
My 2011 Epic
Attached Images
    
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-15-2010, 7:04 AM Reply   
Nice boat Scott.

Any pics of the surf wave?
Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-16-2010, 6:38 AM Reply   
I got some pics of the surf wake and videos of the wakeboard wake this weekend. I will try and get them posted this evening or tomorrow for everyone

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