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Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-09-2010, 5:43 PM Reply   
trying to get the wake dialed in, and as BIG as possible. boat is a 08 VLX with Monsoon and OJ Fusion ( 475 ) prop, we were out this weekend with the new set up and I wasn't able to get on plane with 4 people in the boat and a rider.

Set up is 3 Factory Tanks, 750s and 70-80ish lbs of lead in each rear locker, 1200lb bow sac, 70-80ish lbs of lead under each front seat. boat would not plane out at all and topped out around 15-17 MPH, had to almost completley drain the rear tanks and only about half in the center tank... am I don't something wrong, I don't see this as being too much weight, and if we put anymore in the front we're at the point where we're dipping the bow when we slow down... anybody else riding this boat with this much weight?
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       08-09-2010, 5:58 PM Reply   
I can tell you its not the weight I have an 07 and run atleast that much weight. I spread it down the side for surfing and run a acme 1235 prop. that 475 isnt the best but should still get you on plane. Did you trip any codes on the motor?
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-09-2010, 6:11 PM Reply   
I have an 08 also with the same motor and same prop. Can't say I run that much weight, but I do have about 1000 lbs of lead and 4 factory tanks totaling 1200 lbs. I have roughly 250 in each rear compartment on top of the factory tanks and 500lbs in the nose on top of the factory bow ballast. I get a pretty good hole shot up to the point where I get about 6+ people in the boat, extra weight beyond there and it starts to slow down quick. So if you figure 6 people = 1000 lbs that would be about 3000 lbs without wedge. For me the wake is money with this amount of weight in the 75-80ft range. You sound like you're at about 4500 lbs. I can't tell you what the most weight you could run is b/c I haven't topped mine out, hopefully someone else can chime in. I've always been able to move some weight forward if I couldn't get on plane and it would work out. General rule of thumb, I'd keep the weight about 40% front 60% back. I keep my lead 50-50 simply b/c my passengers practically always sit behind the windshield. Hope this helps a little...
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-09-2010, 6:47 PM Reply   
Yeah i started throwing a code, something about a Cat Temp sensor low voltage, think this could be causing a loss of power?

spotts, how many RPMs can you run WOT, i'm only running about 4800-4900 WOT which seems low wonsidering i used to run 5200
Old    Cobra Rob (CobraRob)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-09-2010, 7:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanbush11 View Post
Yeah i started throwing a code, something about a Cat Temp sensor low voltage, think this could be causing a loss of power?

spotts, how many RPMs can you run WOT, i'm only running about 4800-4900 WOT which seems low wonsidering i used to run 5200
If it's anything like a car engine, 2 things here. One the exhaust temp will go up quickly if the motor is being overloaded. I wonder if the prop pitch is the issue.

However, if you have a partially clogged Cat it will rob power like nobodies business. Got 1 tank of bad gas in an old car of mine and the car would max out at like 25MPH and the cat turned cherry red.
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       08-09-2010, 8:14 PM Reply   
well the code you tossed is the first problem call your dealer tell them whats up then ask for the latest cpu program. they should swap your o2 sensors and update the program. (this is a known issue) then go get a new prop try the 1235. between the two you will be good to go. you will loose top end with the 1235 but the boat will be like a tractor. wake board speeds should be just under 3k in rpm`s.
Old    wake_addict (radikal)      Join Date: Feb 2004       08-09-2010, 8:52 PM Reply   
i had the same problem when i get mine but it was only when i was trying to put the power wedge when wakeboarding, as soon as i deploy it it wouldn plane even if the ballast was empty but when the wedge is up i can load it with a lot of ballast and i dont have any issues.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-09-2010, 9:20 PM Reply   
I already let the dealer know about the code, waiting for a call back from them... is the Acme 1235 really that much better than the Fusion? i was told they were pretty close in performance? what does you boat top out at with the 1235?
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-09-2010, 10:37 PM Reply   
What is the pitch and diameter on the Fusion prop?

I have the 1235. It's legit. You'll probably top out in the upper 30s to low 40s.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-09-2010, 10:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by radikal View Post
i had the same problem when i get mine but it was only when i was trying to put the power wedge when wakeboarding, as soon as i deploy it it wouldn plane even if the ballast was empty but when the wedge is up i can load it with a lot of ballast and i dont have any issues.
That is not right at all man. NO WAY should that happen.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-09-2010, 10:50 PM Reply   
1235 will out do it, cant explain it, it just does. its not a cruising prop will get you 32-35 but its a waist of fuel at that point. 1235 is designed to push weight all the time.

your weight is just in the wrong spots for a vlx. ill break it down for you how my boat sits, i run 4 tanks, i have the bow tank, and i run power wedge all the way down.
the rest is all lead but hear me out for a second.
200 in the bow in the cut outs
200 in the walk way stacked against the bow tank on the floor.
500 spread even under the helm and passenger compartment
500 spread even under the 2 rear corner seats but forward of the lockers
200 on the floor to move around
now this is a true 1600# of lead.

fully weighted we ride 80' @ 23-23.6mph
or some of the boyz ride 85" 2 24ish mph

the wake is hard as a rock and f-ing BIG.

try this your next time out and hit me back let me know how it goes.
fill your stockers and drop your wedge all the way.
leave that 100# of lead on your floor to move around to even things up.
run 1 750 in the walk way not all the way up there but just in the walkway
take that other 750 and lay it across on the floor back against the back seat.


prepare for launch and report back with some pics. remember if your running that weight then plan on running the above rope length and speeds
Attached Images
  
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-10-2010, 4:52 AM Reply   
so I guess the general idea i'm getting from everyone is i need to load the boat Heavy in the middle and Bow, and no so heavy in the back? i'm definatly trying to get the wake as steep as possible
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-10-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
Ryan, I can't tell you RPM's off the top of my head. Next time out I'll take a look though. Definitely tell the dealer you need the latest firmware and go get it (don't just have them reset the faults - if you bought from that dealer they'll probably do the firmware for free b/c the boat should be under factory warranty yet.. There is a chance the sensors might still trip even with the firmware, it was a problem Indmar had with that model year. I got the new firmware last summer that was supposed to take care of it and they tripped twice this year, but no performance issues at all when I had the faults. There is actually firmware out there to bypass them all together, I know a guy who put it on his own boat. I've been told by a good tech who is the most trusted Indmar guy on a big lake in VA that they're just over sensitive and more of a pain in the @ss than they're worth. Indmar made some changes with the sensors themselves in the 09 model year from what I've been told.

As for prop, my dealer likes the 475 over the 1235 so that's what I went with. Can't say I've run the 1235, but I don't think buying a new prop is your problem as I think the only real differences between the two are a bit of cup size and the OJ weighs a bit more. I'm pretty sure performance wise thos two props aren't too far apart. The 475 should be an XMP Edge though and not a "Fusion" prop, so you may want to double check and make sure that's what you have. It sounds to me like you just need to move a little weight forward and possibly try a little less weight. You should be able to get 3500lbs and then some on plane though with that engine and prop. I'm pretty sure I've had days where I've been close to 4,000 lbs with people. If I'm on any boat that won't plane out I try to move more weight forward or let a little out in the back, I've seen this happen on many other models, not just a VLX. And as far as steepening up the wake, a little weight shift in this boat can go a long way and with a good amount of weight at 80 feet you should have a nice lip even without wedge. I can notice an extra lip just from two extra people over what I normally have being in my boat and sitting behind the windshield. Good luck and enjoy...
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-10-2010, 8:03 AM Reply   
FYI the fusion is the same from as the 475 just cast and not CNC'd

I'll try today running more weight in the middle and not so much in the rear and see how that goes
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-10-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
The OJ 468 imho is better suited for a stacked VLX over the Acme 1235. Even w/ the error code I'm certain you need to move weight forward at least to have a chance at planing out. As I mentioned elsewhere you can exchange props the OJ fusion to the 468 its lower than the Acme 1235 and will have a better hole shot and hold speed much better.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-11-2010, 11:48 AM Reply   
We tried to ride with at 750 in the walk way, 1200lb sack in the bow and 750 in front of the rear seat and there was no way that was working, first time we let off we dunked the nose like crazy, had to dump the sacs before i could get off plane.

here is my wake with 1200lb sack in front + 175lb lead, factory 3 tanks, 750s in rear locker filled about 70-75% + 175lb lead

Guy on the bottom is 5'11"

Old    Jason Barber (A7X_LSV_23)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-11-2010, 12:05 PM Reply   
That's a big damn wake.... How do you people keep the nose of the boat out of the water turning around NOT doing power turns?
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-11-2010, 12:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanbush11 View Post
We tried to ride with at 750 in the walk way, 1200lb sack in the bow and 750 in front of the rear seat and there was no way that was working, first time we let off we dunked the nose like crazy, had to dump the sacs before i could get off plane.

here is my wake with 1200lb sack in front + 175lb lead, factory 3 tanks, 750s in rear locker filled about 70-75% + 175lb lead

Guy on the bottom is 5'11"

Why do you have a 1200# sack in the bow? That's ridiculous and no wonder why you bury the nose. 5-750 will do. Turn the nose to the left or right before you stop.

~600+~600+1200+175+175+200+200+550. That's 3700# before wedge, people and on a Monsoon motor.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-11-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
with the 1200 + lead in the bow its not a problem at all, just let off, once you start getting any more than that you have to start being careful, the trick is to let off and idle for a few second and let the rollers go past, no way to cross the rollers with out dunking it

1400# isin't too much in the nose when you've got 2000# in the back

Last edited by ryanbush11; 08-11-2010 at 12:25 PM.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-11-2010, 12:39 PM Reply   
I would split that weight between the bow and mid-ship/walkthrough.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-11-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
What would be the advantages of that? i've thought about it but that would require manually filling 2 bags instead of one and it seems it would make it harder to get on plae
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-11-2010, 1:38 PM Reply   
1200 is way too much in the bow in that boat. As mentioned, 750 should be plenty. Put some more mid-ship and maybe re-prop. The Acme 1235 is money.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-11-2010, 2:09 PM Reply   
I posted this on another thread but Brent Starr's boat that I rode in was an 08 VLX with the hammerhead. He ran the 4 stock tanks, 1000# bow sack at 500-700, 350# sacks in the rear lockers, 500 in the cockpit diagonal and about 1500# of lead in evenly distributed through the boat. He used no wedge. I think the idea is if you don't use the wedge you want the weight to be almost perfectly 50/50. If you use the wedge you probably need to go with 60/40 front/back.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-11-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
A couple other things I noticed about your original weight setup sound really wrong. First though are you using the wedge at all? Second, fly high's website says their bow sack is only 1000#. Do you have something different? Assuming the front sack is only 1000# here is how your weight breaks down.

front-1150
middle-350
rear-2150
Total-3650
front to back ratio-35/65

If you were using a wedge there is no way in hell your boat should plane out. That is so overly weighted in the rear. I would run the bow sack full, leave the 150# under the front seats, fill the center ballast, move the lead from rear rear the walkway, fill rear ballast and fill the rear 750's about half. This would give you ~1200 rear, 1300 front and 350 center. This should be a pretty good setup for running with or without the wedge or at least a good starting point.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-11-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
I don't run the wedge at all... I guess i was wrong, I thought the bow sack was 1200...

I can't run any more than 1200 in the bow or that boat will dip when it goes back to idle, and i normall run the 750s at 65-75% I just don't see how you guys are putting more weight in the bow without sinking the boat, and this isin't my first wakeboat, I've had multiple x stars as far back as 02 and never had a problem like i do on this boat
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-11-2010, 3:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanbush11 View Post
I don't run the wedge at all... I guess i was wrong, I thought the bow sack was 1200...

I can't run any more than 1200 in the bow or that boat will dip when it goes back to idle, and i normall run the 750s at 65-75% I just don't see how you guys are putting more weight in the bow without sinking the boat, and this isin't my first wakeboat, I've had multiple x stars as far back as 02 and never had a problem like i do on this boat
When I was out on Brent's boat it was so slammed that you actually had to watch for water over the bow and stern. It sounds like you are just going to have to be careful and learn to drive the boat with the weight. It is just a sacrifice if you want a huge and hard wake.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-11-2010, 8:16 PM Reply   
yeah definatly, thanks for all the advice, this is not my first slammed boat, but my first malibu,.. we rode tonight with the bow sac and lead up front, factory 3 tanks, and 750s 90% full + lead and just 2 people in the boat, the wake was absolutley awesome but that was about all the boat could handle, i'm just wondering how adding a 400lb sac in the walkway would affect things? good news is i went bigger than i ever have before!!
Old    Eric Johnson (ej_ojprop)      Join Date: Feb 2009       08-12-2010, 3:33 AM Reply   
The14.25 X 14.5 LC 1 1/8" 4-Blade FUSION is our Hand Crafted version of the 14.25 X 14.5 XMP. Both propellers are cast in the same process. The XMP is machined while the FUSION is finished by hand. All machined propellers, from us and the other guys, start as cast parts. They are not from billet. The FUSION is cast to a near net part, meaning there is very little clean up to do. The machined parts are cast thicker to have material to machine.
Old    Mike (mfenton)      Join Date: May 2009       08-17-2010, 10:36 AM Reply   
Just do like I did, got rid of that mastercrap and malibu I owned and bought a super air 220. Fill stock ballast with 6 to 7 people and the wake is bigger than that picture of the malibu. Just my opinion
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-17-2010, 11:56 AM Reply   
yeah, i'm sure that a super air has a larger stock wake than a VLX with 3600lbs... good one
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-17-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
LMAO!!!! thats funny....
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-17-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfenton View Post
Just do like I did, got rid of that mastercrap and malibu I owned and bought a super air 220. Fill stock ballast with 6 to 7 people and the wake is bigger than that picture of the malibu. Just my opinion
Uh what? That's funny.
Old    Mike (mfenton)      Join Date: May 2009       08-17-2010, 3:44 PM Reply   
Im just speaking from what I see. 3600 pounds is a lot of weight just to get that size wake. You must be turning 4 - 4500 rpms at riding speed. Im not trying to hate on your wake... Mine looks just as big with the stock ballast full with a couple people spread out though boat.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-17-2010, 4:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfenton View Post
Im just speaking from what I see. 3600 pounds is a lot of weight just to get that size wake. You must be turning 4 - 4500 rpms at riding speed. Im not trying to hate on your wake... Mine looks just as big with the stock ballast full with a couple people spread out though boat.
I guess looks can be decieving... not trying to slam your natique wake, we all know therre one of the best in the business. its just i don't care what kind of boat it is no way the stock ballast is going to be larger than another boat with close t0 4000lbs in it

and i think we normally run around 36-3800RPMs i could be wrong though, that's just part of hacving a slammed boat...
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-17-2010, 4:21 PM Reply   
I love our Malibu (05 VLX Monsoon 340) but I one complaint is definitely how low the bow gets. Yesterday we had stock 1250 filled, wedge, 725 in the walk through and 10 people (8 in the main area, 2 in the front) and the boat planed out but coming off of a plane (just letting off the throttle and pulling it back to neutral) the bow submarined. Im not talking about coming around to the rider and hitting any kind of roller...it was just slowing down to neutral; we took on a couple gallons of water right over the front. I was pretty shocked, considering thats only 2k, wedge, and people (at 150 lbs each thats 3500+wedge). I guess I weight a little front heavy but nothing crazy, the 725 is just slighty toward the front of the 50/50 line but I had 8 people in the rear with only 2 in the front. We ended up draining the front tank and half of the center tank and it was OK but I feel like the bow should be able to handle that. The bows of all malibus ride way lower than any other boats Ive seen. Epics handle 4k without getting near dipping the bow, Xstars get close with that weight but still are usually fine (more common to take the rooster tail over the back).
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-17-2010, 4:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfenton View Post
Im just speaking from what I see. 3600 pounds is a lot of weight just to get that size wake. You must be turning 4 - 4500 rpms at riding speed. Im not trying to hate on your wake... Mine looks just as big with the stock ballast full with a couple people spread out though boat.
pics can help solve this.
Old    Mike (mfenton)      Join Date: May 2009       08-17-2010, 5:24 PM Reply   
Yeah I will post up some pics when I go ride this weekend. Like Ryan said also, looks can be deceiving.. I didn't mean to come off rude about your boat, I apologize if i did.
Now I do know this... My buddy has a super air 210 with the upgraded fly high ballast on top of stock, and with all that full and 13 people in the boat.. It will not get on plane. We didn't dip the nose when we stopped from trying to get on plane, we sunk the nose and had about 5 inches of water throughout the whole boat. We had to empty to half ballast to get up.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-17-2010, 5:41 PM Reply   
Mike, I'll try to get some pics next time i'm out also!!
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       08-18-2010, 4:24 PM Reply   
I just want to know if you got out and kicked the guy driving that boat behind you in the head. I would have.


Last edited by talltigeguy; 08-18-2010 at 4:24 PM. Reason: ..
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-18-2010, 6:08 PM Reply   
i know right? they were surfing perfect butter up and down vics and then they tailgated us for ever.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-18-2010, 8:49 PM Reply   
ill take the tailgating over the surfer on pure butter on vics anytime
he did both!!!!
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-18-2010, 9:53 PM Reply   
hahahahahaha, thats my friends vlx. he's on WW i was hoping he was going to see this first but oh well. he is not as close as it looks and there is no surfing in that boat either. lmao!!!!!
Old    Kyle Marriott (kyle_m)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-18-2010, 11:07 PM Reply   
i have never ridden bryans wake but i do know he has passed me on the delta plenty of times and sent some water over the sides of my sanger, his wake is no joke, good setup to listen to for sure
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       08-18-2010, 11:35 PM Reply   
Do you really think a vlx needs that much weight to make a good wake? How about you try to ride it with the stock ballast and wedge at 80 feet and 23-24 mph and see what you can do. As far as I remember they put out a pretty good wake.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-18-2010, 11:41 PM Reply   
^^^ they sure do, one of the best out of the box wakes you can buy imo, but i like mine just the way it is, slumped!!!!
kyle i dont have your number pm it to me and ill hit you up for third, get you a set behind the bu. can you ride mid week?
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-19-2010, 6:42 AM Reply   
Nautique guys (not all and just for the record I really like Nautiques so don't get me wrong) crack me up:

"Just do like I did, got rid of that mastercrap and malibu I owned and bought a super air 220. Fill stock ballast with 6 to 7 people and the wake is bigger than that picture of the malibu. Just my opinion"

It's like, I pump helium in the ballast tanks of my Super Air and it is bigger than a Malibu or MC with 3500 lbs. Come on dude, I have ridden behind and seen plenty of SAN's, and stock is not better than a MC or Malibu or Axis or Supra, etc., etc., etc. that is slammed.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       08-19-2010, 7:05 AM Reply   
definatly don't need the wake, but it makes everything so effortless!
Old    Kyle Marriott (kyle_m)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-19-2010, 11:15 PM Reply   
bryan i usually can depending on school im carrying a big load this semester since im trying to make it my last year but ill pm you
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-26-2010, 8:12 AM Reply   
still waiting for mfenton's pics.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-26-2010, 2:35 PM Reply   
^He's got to find the GIANT lens for his camera, to capture the entire wake.
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-26-2010, 8:38 PM Reply   
it isn't going to happen. I think it was all talk.
Old    mojo            08-26-2010, 9:17 PM Reply   
i can tell that wake is huge from the pic. that said, most pics of wakes do absolutely nothing in letting you know anything about it. only way to tell is to get out there and check it out yourself. i am a nauti owner and will tell you there is NO WAY 7 people, even over weight ones, and stock ballast will be any where near that. unless your stock ballast is 750's on each side in the rear, 1000 i the bow, and 7 people then im sure they are close

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