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Old    ScottRobinson            08-16-2010, 7:41 AM Reply   
I will be out today on the lake and will also take some pictures of the surf wake. Although I don't run like it should on the surf stuff. It works for me and I like it. If I were to set it up the way it was supposed to be ran I am sure it would be even better. (See Epic thread for details on that) I also ride with the ballast pretty empty. Well 1/4 in front and a bit in port side to clean wake. My pics won't be a great as Sam's.

I may try to fill it with more weight and take a few pics....also I may make the surf wake correct tonight and take a pic. =) I have 4 extra people tonight so I have some weight. With our boats you actually need a bit more weight in the front which seems odd but makes the surf wake GREAT!
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-17-2010, 5:42 AM Reply   
Epic 23v Surf Wake Video - I am not a surfer but this looks good to me... I am sure some could pick it apart. I too am interested in the Epic and have been following this thread and others. I will be in the market for a new boat next season... So far I like the way the epic wake looks at 25/26 mph... I have yet to get a chance to ride behind one... maybe one of these days...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8c1CYgRoZk

Last edited by MikeyG; 08-17-2010 at 5:46 AM.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-17-2010, 7:15 AM Reply   
Fred - Can you tell a difference in the build quality between the two? I like the concept that Epic has with the dual rudders, MUCH larger motor, HUGE Pure Vert System. I just wish they would add a little more to the interior, hatches, etc... I know it is small things, but to me they count. This year the Enzo has put in the same floor as the Epic (imagine that) and almost the same pure vert system. But that nose on the Epic still to this day keeps me shaking my head.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-17-2010, 8:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by colombiansurfer View Post
Fred - Can you tell a difference in the build quality between the two? I like the concept that Epic has with the dual rudders, MUCH larger motor, HUGE Pure Vert System. I just wish they would add a little more to the interior, hatches, etc... I know it is small things, but to me they count. This year the Enzo has put in the same floor as the Epic (imagine that) and almost the same pure vert system. But that nose on the Epic still to this day keeps me shaking my head.
EPIC has, since my year model, gone to a stronger molded deck design as opposed to my two piece. Making it more solid in feel and flex. I actually commend EPIC for making good use of the space they have. The cooler in the floor, the batteries stowed under a hatch-leaving that space free in the rear lockers, the sub behind the drivers seat, cup holders EVERYWHERE, the anchor locker in the bow.
The dual rudder system handles, makes this monster handle like my prior 97 Moomba Outback DD, I can spin the boat on its axis if I was being dumb, lol, powerturning to the extreme! As a matter of fact the rep and I were working on trying the "around the world" trick behind the EPIC on a wakeboard and it was crazy watching him jet ski turn the EPIC and hole shot out (ripping my arms off too!)

If I really sit and think about it, there are things I would like to see different, but I would have to pull more ideas from every manufacturer out there to make my "perfect" boat. But considering I have a head turner everywhere I go, will work for me. The interior isn't bad and the fit/finish is fine by me.

If I can get a turn key ride, not have to buy sacks or stereo or heater (use it every winter) or this or that, then its worth it to me.

EPIC is taking a small chunk of market share every year and there is a reason for that. Good product, good value, happy owners. Sure we have our little complaints here and there but what boat owner doesn't. It is still a B.O.A.T.
Old    ScottRobinson            08-17-2010, 12:01 PM Reply   
Amen Fred!!

All those people that don't like the look of the nose.... I love it! It also serves a great function. That anchor (although maybe not cool) is in there. I think that was a very cool thought to have the anchor as part of the boat. So I love it, especially when in use. I like the way it looks on the water too, different...!

I get so many looks at the dock and SOOO many people come ask about it. I love that feature. (people talking about my boat) In the end everyone has an opinion and maybe this isn't for everyone or it isn't perfect but for alot of us that own one, it is as close as we could find to the perfect boat.
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-17-2010, 12:51 PM Reply   
I have an Enzo, so I am biased towards it. We surf 90% of the time, and it is second to none when it come to dialing in a surf wake EASILY. Yeah some guys are able to get a great wake with 4000 LBS of fat sacs all over th boat, but we usually have a bunch of little kids and can't deal with the sacs.

Here is a video of Sean O'Brien wakeboarding behind his Centurion Enzo. You make up your mind if this wake is what you are looking for or not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8dLiJE_fE8
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-17-2010, 5:24 PM Reply   
Sean's last boat was a Typhoon, and the one before that. Not sure the next will be Centurion, doubt it.
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-18-2010, 6:53 AM Reply   
He actually had An Enzo after his red Typhoon. It was baby blue in color, rode behind it several times.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-18-2010, 7:23 AM Reply   
The surf wake on the MB Tomcat is amazing, the wakeboard wake is perfect and the price is great. Let me know if you want me to set up a test drive - No pressure.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-18-2010, 1:34 PM Reply   
@Fred - Thanks for the info! I know that Centurion has come out with a new boat and is using the same technology that Epic has for the hull. I kinda felt it was a matter of time before these two boats started to come together as one and bouncing ideas off each other.

Now if the Enzo would bump up the Pure Vert to 4K lbs, then it would be a hella wake!!! No bags, no pumps, just pure H2O!
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-18-2010, 1:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
The surf wake on the MB Tomcat is amazing, the wakeboard wake is perfect and the price is great. Let me know if you want me to set up a test drive - No pressure.
What setup do you run to get the perfect surf wake? I rode behind a 2010 F23 Tomcat last weekend and the wakeboarding wake was hands down my favorite wake ever but we couldn't dial in the surf wave in the short time we were riding.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-18-2010, 2:02 PM Reply   
I would go with the Enzo. It's such solid boat and IMO it's way better than the epic. The one thin that I think epic has going for it is the awesome pure-vert ballast system. I will give them props on that. Their hull material I don't like at all it feels like a fishing boat as buont as it is. Enzo throws a killer wave and it'll take you more time to set up but it's well worth it.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-18-2010, 2:07 PM Reply   
I would go with the 2011 Enzo 230+ that for 2011 has the pure Vert system The best surf wake and the pure vert system what could be better
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-18-2010, 8:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22vdrive View Post
Their hull material I don't like at all it feels like a fishing boat as buont as it is. .
As buoyant as an aluminum jon boat or perhaps a steel battleship. Hull material = buoyancy?

Even a concrete ship is buoyant, not for long since it was pourous but it was floated. It's about displacement. The EPIC has a higher freeboard than most boats. Perhaps this was the feeling you were getting?

Just sayin.....

OH and since Centurion is going with the same hull resin infusion technology will you still back your statement? http://www.ballofspray.com/component...w-3-event-boat
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-18-2010, 8:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by colombiansurfer View Post
@Fred - Thanks for the info! I know that Centurion has come out with a new boat and is using the same technology that Epic has for the hull. I kinda felt it was a matter of time before these two boats started to come together as one and bouncing ideas off each other.

Now if the Enzo would bump up the Pure Vert to 4K lbs, then it would be a hella wake!!! No bags, no pumps, just pure H2O!
I just read up on them going with Resin Infusion with their Carbon Pro. I love the Pure Vert except for one thing - I may be wrong here - don't you have to be on plane to drain, or at least moving faster than idle? I am a "what if" kinda guy, I think pumps should be installed for that "what if" moment. I could pull the boat out of the water full, but I don't wanna, lol.

I personally like the integrated tanks I have. The tanks are a part of the hull giving additional strength and rigidity.

I have seen pics of the Enzo wakes and they are nice, tooled around in their boats and if you are serious between your choices, you got a hard decision in front of you....I wish you luck.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-18-2010, 9:05 PM Reply   
The water would come right out of the pure vert system on the boat ramp no pumps needed
Centurion is not going to Resin infused on the Wake boats just where it is needed on the 3 event boats to reduce the weight and thus the wake
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-18-2010, 9:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by krbaugh View Post
The water would come right out of the pure vert system on the boat ramp no pumps needed
No no, I get that. here's where I was going with that. Boat stalls, battery dies, towed to dock, insert trailer, you own a half ton or some other combination out of the mismatch thread. We are talking almost 9000lbs to pull up a hypothetical steep ass ramp.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-18-2010, 9:23 PM Reply   
I dont see it as a problem dunk the trailer float the boat on the trailer open the pure vert gates slowly pull the boat out of the water.
The more the angel the faster the water comes out The water drains in one minute
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-19-2010, 5:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by desotodave View Post
He actually had An Enzo after his red Typhoon. It was baby blue in color, rode behind it several times.
well I did some work on his old blue Typhoon last winter for the new owner, his red typhoon with 1800 hrs or something like that is for sale now, too much to keep up with.
Old    Joe Mc D (jmcdanie)      Join Date: Oct 2009       08-19-2010, 6:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
No no, I get that. here's where I was going with that. Boat stalls, battery dies, towed to dock, insert trailer, you own a half ton or some other combination out of the mismatch thread. We are talking almost 9000lbs to pull up a hypothetical steep ass ramp.
Boat Stalls and battery Dies...how are you going to empty your sacs without a working pump? Same scenario isn't it?
Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-19-2010, 7:01 AM Reply   
Ballast Drains on the ramp...... Great... Another ass clown move just adding more people to sitting on the boat ramp. Once they have pulled the boat out, get in it to drain the ballast, I GUARANTEE you they will sit on the ramp and do the wipe down, clean up, and cover. Once they are out of the truck on the ramp there is no ettiqutte, lazyness will always trump.

Horrible idea in my opinion. Plus where I ride you cant get to the boat ramp with a loaded boat, it is to shallow... so then what???
Old    WAlove (masonwakerider)      Join Date: May 2003       08-19-2010, 7:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by olmoomba View Post
As buoyant as an aluminum jon boat or perhaps a steel battleship. Hull material = buoyancy?

Even a concrete ship is buoyant, not for long since it was pourous but it was floated. It's about displacement. The EPIC has a higher freeboard than most boats. Perhaps this was the feeling you were getting?
resin infusion allows the epic to weight 1000# or so less then other boats, the ride would be affected. But with that much factory ballast, just sink her down until the ride is right. Resin infusion and epoxies are the future with environmental and worker safety causing reduction of the polyesters they are using in boats now.
Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-19-2010, 7:50 AM Reply   
Here is a picture of the Epic surf wake. I am uploading a wakeboard video from last week to vimeo and will post soon.

Stock Ballast, 3 people in boat.

Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-19-2010, 9:28 AM Reply   
Video is posted to Vimeo.

http://vimeo.com/14268057

1/4 stock ballast, a driver, and a filmer. Only 6 months out of ACL and MCL surgery, so excuse the bad riding as Im not back into it full swing yet.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-19-2010, 10:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcdanie View Post
Boat Stalls and battery Dies...how are you going to empty your sacs without a working pump? Same scenario isn't it?
As I slap myself on the forehead. Valid point!

As I started thinking about it, I am figuring out how to retro this system into my boat. Almost got it, now to do it along with the other 100 projects I have on the table.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-19-2010, 11:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcdanie View Post
Boat Stalls and battery Dies...how are you going to empty your sacs without a working pump? Same scenario isn't it?
Paddle to shore, pull the nose on the trailer and then pull the plugs on the sacs and the drain plug on the boat....
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-19-2010, 11:09 AM Reply   
If that was only with 1000 lbs of ballast I would love to see it with 4000!! Thats a nice looking wake! What speed are you at and what length of rope?
Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-19-2010, 11:55 AM Reply   
I am at about 70 feet due to my injury. Riding at 22 mpg.

When I get a driver besides my wife I will fill it all the way up and take a video. 4000#'s in a boat can do unimaginable amouts of damage to itself and others, and I do not feel safe with her in the drivers seat, as good of a driver as she is.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-19-2010, 12:13 PM Reply   
I like how the pic was taken at one of the most deceiving angles in existance. Any wave looks big looking up at it from the swim platform.

Last edited by 05mobiuslsv; 08-19-2010 at 12:21 PM.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-19-2010, 12:20 PM Reply   
Try an angle like this.

Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-19-2010, 12:20 PM Reply   
Hey Sam - If you can, Take one at 25mph too please!!

I just need to ride behind one of these darn boats!
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-19-2010, 12:22 PM Reply   
Umm holy crap! that surf wake looks HUGE!!! Nice!

What kind of boat is that??
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-19-2010, 12:26 PM Reply   
09' malibu 23lsv.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-19-2010, 2:07 PM Reply   
"Ballast Drains on the ramp...... Great... Another ass clown move just adding more people to sitting on the boat ramp."
This is a situation I was talking about if the boat breaks down and you need to drain the ballast!!!
Not to mention the ballast in the Centurion pure vert drains in 60 seconds!!!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-21-2010, 8:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by colombiansurfer View Post
If I am not mistaken, Surfdad, and DJJames have/had an Avalanche and in most of his video's the water is coming over the back hatch it is so low in the water. Safe?? I think not, but since DJJames is a WORLD CHAMPION and won that behind an CENTURION AVALANCHE C4, I think that speaks volumes in itself.
Yeah, you're mistaken. We've never owned a Centurion. The Avy wake is very similar to our Tige. DJJamesZ isn't a world champion, although he is a great surfer. My son James Walker just won the 2010 World Wakesurf Championship - men's open surf division. DJ does load his boat up, we never load more than 1,200 in water ballast and probably 500 in people ballast. We're lucky to get the rub rail wet.
Attached Images
 
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-22-2010, 6:28 PM Reply   
i just watched he epic wakesurf video at the top of the page. the wake is big and long, but wow that double lip makes it worthless. Size is not everything with a wakesurf wake. if you are trying to do stuff and progress your riding, a wake like that will hold you back.
Old    Brian Tison (fuzzball147)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-22-2010, 9:10 PM Reply   
I have a 2008 Epic I purchased this year. I bought it from Jessica Oswald who was a pro wakesurfer for Epic. She's starting her residency for med school so she had to give it up. I'm not jumping into this argument except to say that if a pro used it, it should be ok for us. Whichever boat you choose, you'll love. Just do what makes you happy.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-23-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakemitch View Post
i just watched he epic wakesurf video at the top of the page. the wake is big and long, but wow that double lip makes it worthless. Size is not everything with a wakesurf wake. if you are trying to do stuff and progress your riding, a wake like that will hold you back.
Mitch, how are the centurions selling in your shop right now? That wouldn't happen to be a motivating factor for your killshot post would it?

I wasn't impressed with that video either and i wish some of these would hurry up and post more photos/videos already....lol

Btw- just in case- the sales in my profile are oil and gas related.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-23-2010, 1:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG View Post
Epic 23v Surf Wake Video - I am not a surfer but this looks good to me... I am sure some could pick it apart. I too am interested in the Epic and have been following this thread and others. I will be in the market for a new boat next season... So far I like the way the epic wake looks at 25/26 mph... I have yet to get a chance to ride behind one... maybe one of these days...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8c1CYgRoZk
That wave is an absolute mess .
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-24-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
I like how the pic was taken at one of the most deceiving angles in existance. Any wave looks big looking up at it from the swim platform.
+1
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-24-2010, 5:32 PM Reply   
nu bu how much weight my buddy has an lsv 23 08 we would love to get that wake. i have had bu's but now have a enzo23. they are all great boats any help on your setup thanks
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-24-2010, 8:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
nu bu how much weight my buddy has an lsv 23 08 we would love to get that wake. i have had bu's but now have a enzo23. they are all great boats any help on your setup thanks
I had fly high make me a custom sac, the pics of it were floating around here on WW for a while. The sac fills the rear storage locker and goes up under the seats all the way to the passenger storage compartment. I added 3 fill pumps and 2 drain pumps and everything is wired into the Mux switches, all automatic. Full I estimate 1800+ lbs. I run full MLS ballast ontop of this bag except non surf side. So about 2900# total weight plus whatever the wedge adds. Wedge is 2 clicks up from fully deployed. No other bags in the boat anywhere.

Here is a pic of the sac, it's next to a VTX in the showroom. We filled it with air when I picked it up at the shop. I had to re-inforce the wall in the rear storage compartment because the bag kept blowing it out. I used 1x1" stainless square tubing, no problems since.


Last edited by 05mobiuslsv; 08-24-2010 at 8:41 PM.
Old    John Davidson (Jdizzle78)      Join Date: May 2010       09-14-2010, 6:38 PM Reply   
Any EPIC owners please chime in, the wake that my 23V makes is quite sufficient to ride, however, with too much weight the wake get super vertical and tough to ride, also the pocket shortens with a lot of weight which is strange. anybody have a suggestion on how they are weighting their boat to extend the pocket and eliminate the trough that is created by the back corner of the boat??? I should note that the wake is good enough to shred, but, I know that i could make it better!
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-14-2010, 7:31 PM Reply   
John - go to the Epic Mod thread. Start at like page 7 and start skimming, its in there - we got it dialed in. Also what year boat do you have?
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       09-15-2010, 1:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by islander033 View Post
This coming from a guy that is getting a brand new V226 soon........

Thanks for your unbiased opinion surffresh.....lol.
And sells them!
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-15-2010, 4:44 PM Reply   
a little off-subject, but can you get the Epic without the built-in transom speaker set-up? I like what they're trying to do as a company, but I definitely would not want that stuff built into my gel-coat personally...plus, I'd cringe any time water came over the back of the boat, water-proof or not.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-16-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
Tommy, The folks at Epic pretty much bend over backwards to make sure the customer is happy. I'm sure you could order a new boat w/o out the transom audio. You really should check it out in persom before you opt out though. It's pretty sweet. Epic went to a full Wetsounds system for 2011.
Old    ScottRobinson            09-16-2010, 8:32 AM Reply   
Tommy, yes I have an Epic as well...I have the first 2011 model and don't have wetsounds (stinks I know) but I love my speakers. Never worry about water....seriously it is KICK ASS !!! Don't order without them!!
Old    John Davidson (Jdizzle78)      Join Date: May 2010       09-21-2010, 10:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by olmoomba View Post
John - go to the Epic Mod thread. Start at like page 7 and start skimming, its in there - we got it dialed in. Also what year boat do you have?
2009 black on white powder coat tower, love it
Old    BWillks            09-28-2010, 4:08 PM Reply   
Hey guys! if any of you are interested..im selling by enzo 240! check it out!


http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...-ENZO-97459388

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