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Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-25-2010, 4:50 PM Reply   
I found this on an marine industry website. May have already been posted on here. I haven't seen anything.

Ilmor Marine, a wholly owned subsidiary of Ilmor Engineering Inc., started production this week at its new headquarters in Mooresville, N.C.

The 50,000-square-foot engine assembly and test facility is capable of producing up to 15,000 engines per year. The first engines off the production line today are already on their way to OEM customer MasterCraft Boat Company, the company said.

"This is a great day for our marine division. The program has been in the works for over three years," Ilmor Engineering president Paul Ray said in a statement. "We found a solid opportunity when we entered the marine business as a racing organization in 2002. Our core business had been auto racing, but we believed our engineering skills could be put to good use in the high-performance boating industry."

Ilmor worked closely with the state of North Carolina and Iredell County to hire skilled specialists from the area.

"Through careful planning and product development, we now have a very well-known brand synonymous with performance, high quality and strong customer support," said Ray. "Each of those attributes are very important to us and our goal is to provide all of our customers with the same experience as we expand into exciting new areas of the marine business."

Click here for the full release.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...a-headquarters
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-25-2010, 5:06 PM Reply   
for high horse big block is my understanding. they're sticking with indmar for the smaller sizes. the illmor will be an option in a few boats.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-25-2010, 6:16 PM Reply   
Ilmor builds the Viper V-10 motors for the bigger powerboats. Seems like they've got a 650hp option and a 750hp option. I'll be interested to see how that works out. Now the MC's will priced up around $150K /sarcasm.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-25-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
haha 650hp in a wakeboat? wow. seems like itll just be more of a guzzler? cause we dont really need high hp in our boats, mostly torque. I guess its still cool. I didnt read it, but anyone know the specs on the motor?
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-25-2010, 7:34 PM Reply   
I was just stating what they build now for the powerboat people. I'm sure what they'll put in mc's will be more like what's already in it.

On a side note, South Bay Pontoon boats are available with a Merc Racing 600SCi. Supposedly does 88mph. There's a video of it on their website.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-25-2010, 8:05 PM Reply   
Oh ok gotcha. I read it as in the options they were supplying for MC haha.
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       06-25-2010, 8:35 PM Reply   
Ilmor is Penske's venture into the marine market. For 2011 Ilmor is offering a 6.2l engine and a 6.2l supercharged engine from the rumors that I heard.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-26-2010, 4:53 AM Reply   
Since Penske is a major investor in Mastercraft it makes sense that they would move to supply engines from another Penske company
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       06-26-2010, 12:56 PM Reply   
a 650 HP engine might make sense if you went back to a single engine X-80. ( I think the very first X-80's had just one engine).

I am eager to see how this upgrade might affect the price. Sounds cool that they think that they basically started fresh and had new engineers look at it. It is amazing how boat engines so often don't last. There is so much more stress on them. Boating is like running up a steep grade while accellerating the whole time.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-26-2010, 9:40 PM Reply   
talltigeguy,

I just see that as all the more reason to start dumping diesels into wakeboats.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       06-27-2010, 8:02 AM Reply   
They will have a 5.7 and 6 liter to start. Indmar will have a 6.2L supercharged motor (Zane has one in his xstar currently). Then Ilmor will have the 6.2l and the 6.2L supercharged. They are going to be an amazing addition to the already top of the line boat manufacture. The motor pricing is only supposed to increase hundreds of dollars, not thousands. That is all I can tell you currently.
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       06-27-2010, 9:51 AM Reply   
They will have a 5.7 and 6 liter to start. Indmar will have a 6.2L supercharged motor (Zane has one in his xstar currently). Then Ilmor will have the 6.2l and the 6.2L supercharged. They are going to be an amazing addition to the already top of the line boat manufacture. The motor pricing is only supposed to increase hundreds of dollars, not thousands. That is all I can tell you currently



for some reason I just do not think the price will not go up for boats with those motors. At this rate I will NEVER be able to afford a new wake boat.
At the boat show this year the cheapest m.c. was around 80k? jebus!

Then we went and looked at the nautiques from great lakes marine......The cheapest one was nearly 100k?
On a side note, the great lakes marine web page lists an 08 nautique 220 i think still for sale new at over 100k. Cant figure out why boat dealers are going out of biz.
Old    Dennis (denystaucd)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-27-2010, 11:29 AM Reply   
Does anyone know if the 6.2L gets better gas mileage, since supercharged engine can be more efficient???

Cheers,
Dennis
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       06-27-2010, 2:06 PM Reply   
Supercharged motor is going to not sip gas as it will have 450+ horse power.

Epic1, those prices are typically suggested retail and the actual price is lower. We have an 09 Xstar that is listed at $107k for $87k. You can get into a great boat for way under $80k. Let me know if you are interested.
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       06-27-2010, 5:41 PM Reply   
thanks jason. But my point is that at 80k, 70k, 60k, Is just sooooooo far out of what I could ever justify spending on a toy. The Standard boat thats been floating around is probably the only new boat I could EVER be in the market for. Guess my lower middle class life is just not wake boat friendly.
I just think it is funny that these boat mfg's are hurting but even their "entry level" products are over 40k. I cant be the only one who could spend 30k for a new boat out the door. I am not asking for a giant stero, or 10000 pounds ballast. How much did the bayliner wakechallenger go for new? If standard boats ever make an open bow or a 20' v drive, it could be a hit.

Then you get the "wake boats" form rinker, four winns crown line etc... are the same effin price as a supra and its a stern drive?

Some one make me a boat? I would ROCK a v drive bayliner or sea ray. Say what you want.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       06-27-2010, 6:09 PM Reply   
The problem is that Mastercraft is not going to down grade their boats to get to that price point. It just isn't worth it to them nor are they going to. Being the best made boat and more expensive than any competitor they still out sell the competition. You want a $30k boat, then you are buying a Moomba or an eight year old Mastercraft. That Mastercraft is still going to be a better boat than a new Moomba. Even when Mastercraft had the X-1 for $40k, they still sold more over $50k than the lower price.
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       06-27-2010, 9:03 PM Reply   
true, and I dont expect the big three to build down. What I want is for prices to not go up every year by more than cost of living. Also, a new momba is more then 30k. Why are ALL the brands trying to build luxury boats?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-28-2010, 8:20 AM Reply   
Hundreds of dollars difference??? For a supercharger addition, all the R&D associated therewith, remapping the ECM, adding a cooling system/intercooler? Are you serious??? I had an older Cadillac CTS-V and I purchased a magnacharger/intercooler kit for it, and had it installed at a local shop. I walked through the install with the owner before and afterwards. The kit alone was $5,500. The installation was $2,000. While this is not an apples to apples comparison by any means, it is reasonable to assume that just the parts to supercharge a motor is going to cost MC $2k. God knows what it took to figure out how to design/install a supercharger system.

I don't really have a dog in the fight, and the cost increase will be what it will be. But I'd anticipate a supercharged/intercooled motor option to be more like $7-10k instead of $700-$900. What's crazy is that enough people will pay whatever the increase is. Hell, when your spending 90k on a 22ft boat, what's another $7k?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-28-2010, 8:23 AM Reply   
There are two schools of thought out there that will be more apparent for the 2011 model year. We're going to see some new strategic price point models being rolled out by certain manufacturers, and we'll also see some massively expensive options on existing boats from other manufacturers. Who's making the right moves? Only time will tell I guess.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-28-2010, 8:31 AM Reply   
Axis A20 and Tige re working their 20v making it a pickel fork sounds good to me. I don't think there is much difference now in build and components just extra bling and features. I have seen major issues in all boat brands so no reason for any company to be arrogant at this point.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-28-2010, 8:52 AM Reply   
YEAH! Let me see i'm going to pull a wakeboarder 20 to 25 mph. I need more HORSEPOWER. Sounds like a mine bigger and better than yours,cuasze i spent more,. Reminds me of the guy who pours out half or more of every beer [when his buddies aren't looking]. so he can say he's a better beer drinker.THERE THAT WILL SHOW THEM!
Old    Evil0ne (evil0ne)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-28-2010, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Hundreds of dollars difference??? For a supercharger addition, all the R&D associated therewith, remapping the ECM, adding a cooling system/intercooler? Are you serious??? I had an older Cadillac CTS-V and I purchased a magnacharger/intercooler kit for it, and had it installed at a local shop. I walked through the install with the owner before and afterwards. The kit alone was $5,500. The installation was $2,000. While this is not an apples to apples comparison by any means, it is reasonable to assume that just the parts to supercharge a motor is going to cost MC $2k. God knows what it took to figure out how to design/install a supercharger system.
I agree it's not going to be hundreds but the R&D on the supercharged 6.2L has already been done by GM. Buy the crate below and add a few marine parts.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-19201990
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-28-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
agree it's not going to be hundreds but the R&D on the supercharged 6.2L has already been done by GM.
Not to nit pick, but you understand the difference between physically putting a supercharger on a motor and mapping an ecm for marine use vs. street use? It's not that easy to just stick a supercharged crate engine in a boat.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       06-28-2010, 6:36 PM Reply   
I was stating the price difference comparing an indmar 5.7 mcx to a ilmor 5.7l. The supercharged version will probably be closer to $15k more than the 5.7l.

Also, cwbrme, there is a HUGE difference in build quality. Very easy test is to take your fingers and push on the side of a MAstercraft hull and then do that to Malibu, Tige or just about everyone else and notice how much the hull indents. Another is if you drop a wakeboard on the floor of a Malibu the indention it creates and that Malibu has weight restrictions for their floors because of that.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-28-2010, 7:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason95gt View Post
I was stating the price difference comparing an indmar 5.7 mcx to a ilmor 5.7l. The supercharged version will probably be closer to $15k more than the 5.7l.

Also, cwbrme, there is a HUGE difference in build quality. Very easy test is to take your fingers and push on the side of a MAstercraft hull and then do that to Malibu, Tige or just about everyone else and notice how much the hull indents. Another is if you drop a wakeboard on the floor of a Malibu the indention it creates and that Malibu has weight restrictions for their floors because of that.
If there is such a difference in build quality and mastercraft is soooo much better.How come they don't offer a longer or better warranty.how come every mastercraft dealer has a repair shop at the facility.how come they depreciate the same percentages on resale as other boats. how come all the pros don't ride behind a mastercraft. i agree that in your opinion mastercraft is a superior boat.but thats why pros endorse other boats and people buy other boats . THEY don't agree with you.IF you read the wakeboard magazines they have voted malibu best boat for years.Do i agree? not totally , but i think they are quality boats just like a mastercraft.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-29-2010, 10:41 AM Reply   
Robert, I am not trying to start a war, but pro's that endorse other boats are compensated (just like the MC riders are compensated). My opinion (and look at my profile) is there really is not a superior boat. Any boat is susceptible to issues, we just had a fuel pump replaced. I am not biased to a brand name, boat, board, whatever. It's about what best suits your needs and budget.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-29-2010, 7:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Robert, I am not trying to start a war, but pro's that endorse other boats are compensated (just like the MC riders are compensated). My opinion (and look at my profile) is there really is not a superior boat. Any boat is susceptible to issues, we just had a fuel pump replaced. I am not biased to a brand name, boat, board, whatever. It's about what best suits your needs and budget.
i agree with you there are about 5 makes of boats your can discuss all day which ones best and you can't get ten people to agree. just like cars and ice cream . thats why there is more than one company for all of the above. happy boating
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       06-29-2010, 10:51 PM Reply   
Jason,

You have been drinking way too much koolaid. My 05 Tige hull was as stiff or stiffer than my current 06 MC is. Now my buddy's 07 Malibu is soft compared to those. Is his boat about to break in two and fall into the lake? I don't think so. My next boat will be a bu or Tige, unless something changes by the time I am ready to sell.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       06-30-2010, 6:54 AM Reply   
Wakeboard mag's reader poll has rated the X-star the best wakeboard boat for the last 7 years. Not sure about the Malibu thing. Just because you have a great product, it doesn't mean that things don't go wrong and need a repair shop.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-30-2010, 7:25 AM Reply   
it's like i said you can't get 1o people to agree on which boats best. i had a four winns a correct craft and now a tige. right now i like tige the best. who knows what the future holds? i just get tired of the mines better than yours cauze i said so. lets just agree to disagree. happy boating.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-30-2010, 7:27 AM Reply   
That is what is FREAKING ridiculous MC CC BU builds these boats sells them as luxury items that have this build quality that everyone brags about and stuff is constantly wrong with them. I always here how great MC is blah blah blah they have just as much crap go wrong with them as anything else I have seen and your paying 65k plus and they get barely used compared to a car. All hell would break loose if you went an bought an 80k plus car and stuff was constantly going wrong with it. The boating industry build quality sucks compared to what you get from Porche, Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari etc. I own an MC.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-30-2010, 8:40 AM Reply   
Ferrari?
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-30-2010, 12:15 PM Reply   
Did I mispell? Its possible I am dyslexic, just showing how utterly ridiculous paying 75k - 125kish or more for a freaking wakeboat is ridiculous. I even heard that statement out of a well known pro that gets a free X Star every year. Tall is right and that guy shopped boats like crazy with no owners goggles. I
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-30-2010, 1:19 PM Reply   
I just don't equate any wakeboat to a ferrari. I just thought it was a funny analogy.
Old    Evil0ne (evil0ne)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-30-2010, 5:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason95gt View Post
I was stating the price difference comparing an indmar 5.7 mcx to a ilmor 5.7l. The supercharged version will probably be closer to $15k more than the 5.7l.

Also, cwbrme, there is a HUGE difference in build quality. Very easy test is to take your fingers and push on the side of a MAstercraft hull and then do that to Malibu, Tige or just about everyone else and notice how much the hull indents. Another is if you drop a wakeboard on the floor of a Malibu the indention it creates and that Malibu has weight restrictions for their floors because of that.
I do, but I'm just pointing out that GM has two 6.2L Supercharged engines in production right now. I'd venture to guess the boat engine builders aren't taking a stock 6.2L and just throwing a blower on it, they're probably starting from one of the two designs already out there.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       07-01-2010, 9:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
That is what is FREAKING ridiculous MC CC BU builds these boats sells them as luxury items that have this build quality that everyone brags about and stuff is constantly wrong with them. I always here how great MC is blah blah blah they have just as much crap go wrong with them as anything else I have seen and your paying 65k plus and they get barely used compared to a car. All hell would break loose if you went an bought an 80k plus car and stuff was constantly going wrong with it. The boating industry build quality sucks compared to what you get from Porche, Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari etc. I own an MC.
I agree 100%.

Getting back on topic, I think that MC will state that this engine will have fewer problems...and who can argue, since there is no track record. But I think this is a huge gamble. We hear of way too many power plant failures in boats, IMO.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-01-2010, 7:04 PM Reply   
HELLO they built the viper motor! when is the 1st time you have seen a viper as little as they are driven get out of warranty without going in for repair multiple times.
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-05-2010, 5:46 PM Reply   
Come on already. I am a Mastercraft owner and I have always gotten MCX motors in my boats. I'm about ready to order my next and I too wonder about what motor to get. Should I get my tried and true MCX or go the Ilmore way? I have decided to go the Ilmore route. I don't think that Mastercraft is going to go with an engine mfg. that they dont have confidence in. Ilmore builds formula 1 engines! That is their business. From what I have seen, there are going to be some true differences that will make servicing easier as well.

As far as " oh they are too expensive!", who cares. You don't have to buy one if you can't afford one. Buy what you can afford, but if you can only afford to buy a chevy cobalt don't bash a BMW. Nothing against cobalts, but I hope you get my point. There are a lot of mfgs. because there are a lot of different tastes and pricepoints.
Old    Matt Anderson (xaggie)      Join Date: Nov 2002       07-14-2010, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
Did I mispell? Its possible I am dyslexic, just showing how utterly ridiculous paying 75k - 125kish or more for a freaking wakeboat is ridiculous. I even heard that statement out of a well known pro that gets a free X Star every year. Tall is right and that guy shopped boats like crazy with no owners goggles. I
There is not a pro in the world that get's a free X-Star every year.

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