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Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2010, 5:02 PM Reply   
So I finally decided to put an S & B cold air intake into my 2009 F 250 and one day after the install my check engine light comes on. I decide to take it to Auto Zone and get the code read and basically the DPF filter is causing the code. Needless to say I keep driving the rest of the day and take it to my dealer the next day. After talking with the mechanic he tells me the truck is putting out several codes, mainly the DPF, but he believes this all has to do with the new intake........now I'm no mechanic but I'm unsure how they can try and pin and cold air intake on an exhaust issue.....Now he's telling me that I will be lucky to get my truck back by Monday!!!!! Guess I just need some input on how to deal with this issue...

Chris
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2010, 5:19 PM Reply   
All that computer garbage on the 6.4L is so frustrating, motors run great when you delete the DPF and get some custom tunes. Check out powerstroke.org good group of knowledgeable guys.

Wish I could be of more help, Im a 7.3L guy.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2010, 5:24 PM Reply   
No prob.....I will check powerstroke.org
thanks
joey
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2010, 5:39 PM Reply   
ok that forum blows and is not very user friendly....
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by worththewake View Post
ok that forum blows and is not very user friendly....
really?? its more like regular forums than this site is IMHO. Sorry man, I know they can help you out tho...Ive been on that site for like 3 years now.

Haha i did a search to see what I could find, and found your thread, give it some time, bump it tonight and im sure someone will see it and help you out.

Last edited by ilikebeaverandboats; 07-16-2010 at 5:57 PM.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2010, 5:56 PM Reply   
no big deal....I'm not slamming you at all....Guess I'm just an idiot and I have no clue how to work that forum
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2010, 6:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by worththewake View Post
no big deal....I'm not slamming you at all....Guess I'm just an idiot and I have no clue how to work that forum
No worries, it took me some time to figure this forum out after using that one, same when i got onto tigeowners.com

ill see if I can dig anything up in the mean time.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2010, 6:03 PM Reply   
Well I'm posted up there just waiting for reply's.....thanks Joey
Old    Josh (metalic_era)      Join Date: May 2010       07-16-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
Check out www.gopowerhungry.com he does custom tunes on fords only. I have a F150 with K&N intake, Banks exhaust, and a PHP Gryphon tuner with custom tunes and everything i read he's one of the 3 mans when it comes to fords. It will take a few weeks to get your tunes but it woke my 5.4 up and shifts like it should from the factory. Good luck
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-16-2010, 7:45 PM Reply   
Aftermarket air intakes wreak hovoc on the 6.4l. Most owners signed an agreement with purchase that they would not modifiy the powertrain/drivetrain. Things aren't like they used to be. Gotta look at it from a simple point of view. Truck was fine....... Installed aftermatket air intake that you really didn't need........ Check engine light is on and now your having problems. I would bet your intake is causing the issues, beside the fact I have seen this before ,simple logic has to come into play here. Don't throw more money at the problem. Put your stock intake back on and get the codes cleared. See what happens, That's cheap and free. My advise would be not to modify calibration on one if you have ANY sort of warranty remaining. You don't wanna have to pay for ANY repairs on those trucks. Nothing is cheap to do. Modified calibration will smoke your powerstroke warranty, and yes we can tell if is modified incase you are questioning that. Once it's out of warranty, do what ever you like, or do it now, just take responsibilty for what YOU have done.
Just a few words from your friendly Ford tech.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-16-2010, 8:22 PM Reply   
my question is this bawshogg, why do aftermarket air intakes wreak havoc? is supplying the turbo and engine more air bad for the engine? By no means am I mechanic and obviously you are! I guess I just don't understand why diesel engines are so tuned down from the factory then when you try to unleash the power the engines really have it causes problems with the computer......
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-16-2010, 8:44 PM Reply   
It has nothing to do with how much power your engine CAN make and everything to do with the EPA and federally mandated emission standards. More air in means more fuel and more emissions that need to be regulated. Every part of your engine is monitored by the PCM, the onboard engine control system. It knows how much air is coming in how much fuel it needs and it also nows the exhaust temp in several different locations. When you change a known given value the pcm will pick up on it and flag the necessary issue. I your case, higher exhaust particulate rate or higher exhaust temps through the DPF due to the increased airflow. Your engine is not tuned down. 350 hp and 650 ft.lbs is not what I would call anemic. That thing will tow damn near anything you ever need to tow. It is tuned to emission standards at the time and to provide the best possible performance at no cost in reliabilty to the the engine and the rest of the powertrain. I always think it is funny how guys want tons of HP and TORQUE , but don't think about where it has to go through first. Trans, t-case, axles hubs, ect areall down the line and that power has to go through these components. You want big power, be prepared to spend big dollars if you want to kkep it reliable. Bottom line is this. FORD spent millions of dollars to design and develope the vehicle you are trying to modify with a part from a company that might have spent 10k designing. They arn't gonna tell you it may cause issues, cause then you might not buy it. If you don't know much about what you are doing, good advise would be to leave that to the professionals. I am really not trying to bust your balls, it just gets so redundant to see this from customers all the time. You changed the intake, now you have issues. Don't expect Ford to foot the bill.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-17-2010, 4:28 AM Reply   
Makes sense....guess I will simply remove the filter, eat the money I spent on it and chalk it up to a learning lesson......what you have said makes perfect sense bawshogg
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-17-2010, 11:37 AM Reply   
With more power come more efficiency, its simple as that....its been like that forever. My 7.3L with the basics done to it gets much better milage, and runs far better than it did when it was stock. I can break 20MPG....I have a tune, intake, and exhaust, my tranny also has 130,000 miles on it, 30,000 of which were run with the goodies I added.

so the tranny can ONLY take the 350HP and 6## ft/lb's? There is NO factor of safety built in? I highly doubt fords engineers skimped on the factor of safety when your designing trucks that "can damn near tow anything" and thats why you cant install an intake or an exhaust, or touch the damn motor? When you get into big HP numbers, trannys need to be replaced, billet components need to be used and its understandable, but I just cant agree with using that justification for an intake or any other simple mods like that.....

So if I got a 6.4L or the new 6.7L and just dropped a k&n airfilter in, not a whole cold air system, just the filter, thats too much flow?

Old broncos, mustangs....you can hop those up, no problems, granted emmisions wasnt there but you cant use the justification that its simply because the parts cant support the power......true when you in the 500hp+ but not from 15hp from an intake!
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-17-2010, 7:34 PM Reply   
Joey, I appreciate all your input! makes sense.....guess I need to do a little research before I drop X amount of dollars on a mod that makes my check engine light go on! Better off putting a lift and rims on it than an intake! Do you think a simple k&n would do much?
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-17-2010, 8:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by worththewake View Post
Joey, I appreciate all your input! makes sense.....guess I need to do a little research before I drop X amount of dollars on a mod that makes my check engine light go on! Better off putting a lift and rims on it than an intake! Do you think a simple k&n would do much?
according to bawshogg a simple K&N will throw off the emission control....because its not like altitude has any effect on the amount of air through the motor...

you wont notice a difference if you just add the k&n drop in filter, just wont have to replace next time, will have to clean it.

I would really troll around that forum i told you about, might take a little bit of time get the hang of but it will really help out in the long run. I had almost linked this thread to powerstroke.org to see what some of those guys had to say about the "tech" above....but i stopped myself for the fear of it turning ugly real quick.

On my truck, my tuner makes my motor throw a code when I goose it. its a code for injector pressure and intercooler pressure, basically they are higher than the motor thinks they "should" be. This is because I got a generic tune and not a custom tune but all in all it makes my motor run better, I also added a HPOP crossover line which smooths my idle out a TON.

Last edited by ilikebeaverandboats; 07-17-2010 at 8:24 PM.
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       07-18-2010, 5:43 AM Reply   
X2 on trolling Powerstroke.org. I have a 2003 F250 6.0 and have learned alot from that forum.
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-18-2010, 9:09 AM Reply   
I never said that you cannot modify the vehicle. You can, just be prepared to deal with what YOU cause. Ofcourse you can add an intake kit, then you can go and buy a custom tune and delete the DPF, but when you then spit a rod out the side of the block, don't expect Ford to foot the bill . Bottom line, it happens. Comparing the 7.3 to the 6.0 and yet the 6.4 cannot even be done. 3 whole different beasts. Beaverandboats, your 7.3 is old technology that responds well to mods and doesn't have a quarter of the monitoring capabilities the 6.4 does .I have been a tech in a dealership now for 10 years and in the aftermarket also for a total of 15 years. Diesel perfomance mods are not my specialty, and I have never boasted that I am a diesel performance guru. I am a Ford certified senior master tech and I see this junk all day long, everyday. I work at a dealership where 90% of or service business is trucks. I work with three other senior master diesel techs in my close vicinity that combined, we have over 80 years expierence on FORD vehicles. So if I am not considered knowledgable, don't know who is really?
Don't get it twisted, I like modified stuff, heck , my own vehicle is heavily modified, 550 hp gasser. Ask any of the guys on this board that are local to me , PDXwakers, ect. . I have done modifications on some of they're rides. I just have a good knowledge of the product.
When I got ready to buy a new truck a few years ago I had the option to get whatever truck I wanted. Coulda got a new 6.4, coulda bought a new 6.0l. Bottom line for me was both those trucks do not have what was most important to me. Reliabilty. Those motors plain and simple have to many issues WITHOUT any modifications for my liking, I work on stuff all day long and don't wanna have to work on my truck. I bought gasser, threw on a blower, gears , lift and a whole mess of other stuff. Hasn't let me down yet.
As far a Ford designing things that can't be modified, in this case it has nothing to do with them keeping performance away from you, and everything to do with the federal emissions standards heading our way. You think they are bad now , just hold on tight for what is coming! The problem he is having with the DPF is an emissions ONLY component. No other use for it , except to control emisiions. If you don't believe my reasoning as to why his CEL is now on after the intake install ,what is yours? I wanna hear that. Just tryin to help the brutha out.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
you do make a point, initially I took your response as you were saying that the motors couldnt handle it. I hate the new emissions crap, I know we need to be more environmentally friendly but I dont see how putting all this crap on the new diesels that hinders them so much, hurting the mpg, is helping. in my eyes that counter productive. The EPA should be way more worried about the long term effects the prius has on our environment than how diesel particulates settle on the ground.

I totally understand what your saying about the emissions standards and why the intake throws the code, but the intake is not going to cause the motor itself to self distruct...its gonna throw the codes saying its not running at the"emissions standards" hell its probably running better.

emissions wise, gassers are worse for the environment, correct? Why all the crap added to diesels and not to gasser?
Old    Kidder (kidder)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-18-2010, 5:53 PM Reply   
Hopefully they won't void your warranty since you have that intake on it. I've heard Ford is playing hardball with any mods (especially tunes). Hopefully it's not the case with you. Good luck.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-18-2010, 6:13 PM Reply   
JOEY bawshogg is on the money. the 7.3 could be modified no problem. when ford went with the 6.0 is when aftermarket performance was not needed and those that did had to pay sooner or later. i have a 6.0 litre and can't see why someone would need to modify it. but people do and they know it voids their warranty but they do it anyway and then complain when a failure occurs. if FORD says it's got all the power you need and it will tow whatever the specs are now . thats what the will warranty for 5 years or 100000 miles . to me thats a great warranty. ford doesn't have a problem with you modifing it as long as they don't have to warranty YOUR modification. if stock works why modify?
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2010, 6:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
JOEY bawshogg is on the money. the 7.3 could be modified no problem. when ford went with the 6.0 is when aftermarket performance was not needed and those that did had to pay sooner or later. i have a 6.0 litre and can't see why someone would need to modify it. but people do and they know it voids their warranty but they do it anyway and then complain when a failure occurs. if FORD says it's got all the power you need and it will tow whatever the specs are now . thats what the will warranty for 5 years or 100000 miles . to me thats a great warranty. ford doesn't have a problem with you modifing it as long as they don't have to warranty YOUR modification. if stock works why modify?
I guess I just cant leave things alone, how would you guys feel if adding ballast to our boats would void the warranty because it makes the engine work harder??

Last edited by ilikebeaverandboats; 07-18-2010 at 6:24 PM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-18-2010, 6:32 PM Reply   
don't say that out loud the boat manufacturers might hear you . LOL
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-18-2010, 6:58 PM Reply   
I was under the impression that a KAI would not void the warranty! I should just go pick the truck up tomorrow, put on my old filter, and have the code cleared and be done with it........I guess no matter what you cant screw with the emissions B.S.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-18-2010, 7:11 PM Reply   
chris the new vehicles are getting as much power , gas mileage and lowest emmisions they can . it's all the governments fault. they wan't to control everything. OK RANT OVER!
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2010, 7:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
don't say that out loud the boat manufacturers might hear you . LOL
haha its the same kinda idea, that would be horrible...tige wouldnt like my surf set up
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-19-2010, 8:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeaverandboats View Post
I guess I just cant leave things alone, how would you guys feel if adding ballast to our boats would void the warranty because it makes the engine work harder??
That's more like hauling too much weight. People do that alot and their diesels have issues. Ask a guy who tows a 5th wheel vs a guy who tows a ski boat what kind of issues each has had. The 5th wheel guy has more.

Another thing here is the aftermarket parts industry wants you to think that you will gain a ton by doing all these crappy mods to your very expensive highly engineered trucks. Do they warranty your truck?? HELL NO! I bet the intake company knew damn well that their product makes the 6.4 throw codes just as the tuner guys knew their tunes could blow your head gasket or turbo. It's pretty simple really.

Ford, GM, & Dodge absolutely have to bow down to the emissions people and absolutely cannot afford to warranty your 50k truck you treated like a toy and made run poorly. If you feel the need to mess with your rig, buy a 7.3 or 6.0 that's out of warranty and find a good diesel mod mechanic to help you out. But don't blame Ford for not wanting you to slap every cheap piece of crap intake, lift kit, exhaust, tuner, or whatever on your ride and go back to them when the truck doesn't work like the crappy aftermarket part website said it would.

So when you lift it and it eats steering parts and tires, handles unsafely on the highway, or barely moves because you didn't regear it are you gonna ask Ford to warranty that?? Not trying to be a dick, well kind of, but you really think these aftermarket guys are doing things in your best interest??

Weird but my completely stock F250 6.0l drives like a muscle car and weighs 7000 lbs. It cruises sweetly at 80 mph on the highway and can tow a boat at 70mph no problem. I have passed tons of cars towing up the grapevine from the north and can go from a dead stop back up to 70 mph on that grade. I recently towed up the Sherwin grade at 65 mph and had much pedal left. It does not bog down at altitude, it has no problem towing through 110 degree heat, but does take a bit to warm up in freezing temps. In 40k miles I have had one warranty issue with an injector relay that malfunctioned but you would never have known it.

Last edited by flux; 07-19-2010 at 8:42 AM.
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-19-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
Finally someone that gets it! Amen.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-19-2010, 12:42 PM Reply   
Gawd.... I'm scurred of the new diesels. I love what they can do, but man.... Coming from a guy that's been a BMW, Audi, Mercedes tech for the last 15 years, I was just fine that they were leaving them in Europe. The EPA has it's hands all in the car companies guts. Trust me, you are not getting what's best for you, you are getting what's best for the EPA's agenda. The Prius' and the other hybrids fall into this category. Diesels are amazing, but as the EPA catches up with their growing popularity and strangles them with emissions guidelines it'll become more and more expensive to keep them on the road.

Don't think this is only a diesel thing though. IMO cars and trucks are going totally the wrong direction. Vehicles are going to be absurdly expensive to maintain in the coming decades.
Old    Toad Froggy (ointment)      Join Date: Jun 2008       07-19-2010, 1:53 PM Reply   
i think i am going to retire my 7.3 and only use for the boat and long trips... have about 157k miles on it, no modes and only issue I ever had was the orings once... other than that it has been the best truck i have ever owned... bought in 01... is there anything i need watch out for with it no longer being a daily driver?
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-19-2010, 4:23 PM Reply   
Ok just an update, had the dealership put the newest flash on the truck and now everything is checking out ok. Apparently some of the 6.4's would throw codes with an aftermarket intake if the flash isn't up to date. I will see how it does the rest of the week and update you guys. If it happens again, simple fix, put it back to stock and be done with it! Bawshogg, thanks again for the insight I respect where you are coming from....it's just like when I tell a patient what to do and they come back to me all screwed up because they wanted to try a home remedy! Everybody else, thanks for the insight....I really love the assistance that I get from this site! Joey, never had any luck with the other site......I will keep checking!

Chris
Old    SamIngram            07-19-2010, 4:28 PM Reply   
Bawshogg (bawshogg),
Do you have the V10? What do you think of the V10? I am currently trying to find a cheap E-350 with the V10 in it to make a Motovan out of.
Old    Bawshogg (bawshogg)      Join Date: Dec 2005       07-19-2010, 7:13 PM Reply   
I don't have a V10. I have a 5.4l. The V10's have been great since they first came out. No real problems with them out of the ordinary. As long as the one you get has been maintained well I wouldn't think twice on that one. I have seen those with 3 and 400k on the original motor still going strong, Alot of the transportation companies have those E-series and they seem to be pretty legit , even under those type of conditions.
Chris, It may take a while to reoccur. Keep your fingers crossed. It will have to try and go into regen mode before you will know if you are safe.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-20-2010, 11:26 AM Reply   
Yikes Sam, save your money for fuel. They get aweful mileage loaded. Other than that, they're cool motors. We had one in a 15 passenger limo. It had plenty of grunt.
Old    SamIngram            07-20-2010, 11:35 AM Reply   
I'm just going to drive it on the weekends... The rest of the week I will be either on my new supermoto or driving a little Ford Ranger...
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       08-02-2010, 11:51 AM Reply   
Just an update, Have towed to the lake, a few hundred miles round trip, and have yet to have a problem with the CEL. Bawshogg, it has gone through regen mode a few times with no codes....i know, I know, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks again for all the help

Chris
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-02-2010, 1:15 PM Reply   
I had a lifted 2000 F-350 with the V10 on 35s. Crew cab, long bed. 456 gears.

It was a pig. I too only used in on the weekends to pull a boat, bikes, camping, or whatever. They're okay, until you ride in your buddies diesel and realize what you're missing. Loaded down, gas mileage is HALF of what the diesel gets, meanwhile the diesel is chugging up the hill while you've got your foot to the floor, in second gear, sucking gas as fast as you can pump it in.

The v10 will get the job done, but just barely, and at a huge premium for fuel. Also, I had a hell of a time selling it. No one wants that motor.
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       08-02-2010, 1:15 PM Reply   
Toad, the '01 7.3, Weak spots for me so far, the transmission, the glow plug harness', and HPOP and seals. After that I think the truck is solid.
Old    SamIngram            08-02-2010, 2:05 PM Reply   
J-Rod - You might have a bad catalytic converter or a bad throttle valve on your truck.... The V10's I've been in all tow like a raped ape, and even more so with the '05 and newer V10's with the new 6 speed automatic torque-shift tranny.

IMO, on a used vehicle, with purpose of being a weekend hauler, a big block makes more sense and is much, much cheaper...

I'm currently looking at a 2001 Chevy Express van with the 8.1L in it for $4000
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-02-2010, 3:06 PM Reply   
Sure they tow like a raped ape all day....but at 4500 RPMs.

My motor ran great. The problem is the torque is up in the higher RPMs.
Old    SamIngram            08-02-2010, 3:38 PM Reply   
Yes, 410 lbs-ft @ 2,750 RPM seems high...
Attached Images
 
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-02-2010, 4:14 PM Reply   
An not only that the available torque at 1500 RPM's is over 375...
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-03-2010, 7:55 AM Reply   
Looks great on paper.
Old    SamIngram            08-03-2010, 8:05 AM Reply   
In the driver's seat too. I think you had either bad cats or a bad throttle valve, they will both cause symptoms like you describe.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-03-2010, 9:30 AM Reply   
I've sold a lot fo V10's for the purpose of towing and never had a complaint from customers. Do they tow as well as a diesel? NO, but they do well and last a long time. I actually think as a daily driver they are more enjoyable. The only real problem with them is how damn thirsty they are.
Old    SamIngram            08-03-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
If you look at buying a used truck, or in my case a child abduction van, for the sole purpose of towing the boat and carrying a motorcycle on the weekend a used V10 or 8100 Vortec makes a lot more sense than the diesel. The gasser will tow fine, and if it doesn't get the job done you can swap gears to a lower set. Yes the diesel may tow better and get better fuel economy, but start pricing used diesels versus the big gassers and to get that better fuel economy you are going to have to pay for it, sometimes over half!

Example:
I can find Ford E350 vans with under 100K miles with the V10 in good shape for under $6K all day long. The same van with either the 7.3L PSD or the 6.0L PSD with over 100K miles generally run over $15K.
Old    Andy (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       08-08-2010, 10:13 PM Reply   
no gas motor tows better than a diesel, i have been towing with a 2010 escalade with 400hp 6 speed and it tows my boat like im pulling my house behind me. Hook up a same year truck v10 and then a diesel, it will amaze you, the people that talk about gas motors pulling good are just pissed they bought a gasser cause there wife made them, or they didnt think the 7k upgrade isn't worth it. Diesel hands down tows better than any gas powered truck.

Last edited by michridr69; 08-08-2010 at 10:13 PM. Reason: ..
Old    SamIngram            08-08-2010, 10:27 PM Reply   
Ya Andy, we know, that's why almost all semi-trucks are diesel... You are a genius...

It's called a cost benefit analysis... $7k so you can pass me on the highway?
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-08-2010, 10:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by michridr69 View Post
no gas motor tows better than a diesel, i have been towing with a 2010 escalade with 400hp 6 speed and it tows my boat like im pulling my house behind me. Hook up a same year truck v10 and then a diesel, it will amaze you, the people that talk about gas motors pulling good are just pissed they bought a gasser cause there wife made them, or they didnt think the 7k upgrade isn't worth it. Diesel hands down tows better than any gas powered truck.
hahaha........so what your saying is.......a diesel engine has more torque? Only reason I got my F350 with the 7.3L powerstroke diesel was cause it was loud and made everyone think my winkie was big

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