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Old    Keith Robertson (creations)      Join Date: May 2010       05-25-2010, 12:13 PM Reply   
Hi All. Need help deciding. 23 or 247 Wakesetter LSV or X55 or even Enzo 24. Here is what I am looking for. Hauling 8-12 people more or less all the time, great surf wake, wakeboarding and a little skiing. I know these are set for skiing but if the kids want to go or this old man wants to go, I'd like to go. Not really concerned about the $$$ as I am willing to pay the (gulp) big bucks for the 2010 X55, just want some unbiased thoughts on this type of situation. Will be getting the biggest engine in whatever is purchased, have 2 girls and like the flip seat on the x55 but also will miss out on the wedge for dialing in. I'd like to hear what people think. Then when you factor in the Enzo which is way cheaper but with quite possible the best wake, I am not wanting to throw my money missing the right boat. Thanks
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-25-2010, 12:38 PM Reply   
Enzo will have the best surf wave and all the sacs should be hidden. It has a good-great wakeboard wake. First picture is a Sv24 wave.

Malibu will have a great wave but will require more weight and visible sacs. It has a good-great wakeboard wake. 2nd picture is a 247

X-55 will not as good of a surf wave but will have an awesome wakeboard wake. The hull isn't great for surfing.

Check out the Tige RZ4. It will have almost as good of a wave as the enzo and it will throw that wave on both sides.
Attached Images
  
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-25-2010, 12:39 PM Reply   
Talk to the folks over on centurioncrew.com if you want for info on the enzo. There are a couple of guys that have the boat dialed!
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-25-2010, 1:25 PM Reply   
Those two pics really highlight the differences between a Centurion and the others. The deep V of the Centurion makes the wave wide and rolly with lots of power from top to bottom. The Bu pic shows what a flatter bottom boat does by making the wake peaky, going verticle at the top, and little power at the top or bottom.

The Centurion feels like you can surf all over the place and the 'Bu feels like you need to stay in the slot in the middle or you loose it. Just my experience.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-25-2010, 3:12 PM Reply   
That must be CGI, a surf wake like that is crazy
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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-25-2010, 4:53 PM Reply   
I believe that is wakedocs boat. I think it's partly a good camera angle and mostly a dialed 240 enzo.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-25-2010, 6:00 PM Reply   
With a consistent crew of 8-12, I would definitely go with the 247 or Enzo 240. Both boats are great. As mentioned the Enzo will have a better surf wake and the 247 will have a better wakeboard wake. The Enzo will also ride much better on rough water. I think the Bu has better finish out. Both have a lot of storage and room.

The only decent MC surf wake is on the X25 because of the hull.
Old    Lakewakes Wakesurf Boards (brewkettle)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-25-2010, 6:38 PM Reply   
yea but will the enzo surf both sides, I dont have a real nice boat as stated above and keep folks that ride regular off of the boat cause its too much trouble to set it up for that side.
Old    Mark Riley (madchild1)      Join Date: Mar 2005       05-25-2010, 7:17 PM Reply   
like the 247, the cockpit is super huge, so i'd recommend going to bakesmarine and getting a custom flyhigh sac like this one. it's for a 23lsv, weighs about 2k.

Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-25-2010, 7:20 PM Reply   
I have the Enzo, and regularly surf people on both sides of the boat. I have the switchblade which helps for quick transitions. When we are switching riders, I just empty one side and fill the other side, and this is all done while the previous rider is getting out of the water and the new rider getting in. Very rarely do I have to have anyone wait. My boat is set-up with the regular turning prop so on the Goofy side the wave is not quite as clean as on the regular side. The wave is just as big and long on the goofy side, but there is a little spray on it. Nobody has ever complained, especially after having surfed anything else. Do NOT get the Mastercraft if you want to surf, the hull is to flat, and is just really very difficult to get a decent surf wave at all. My buddy has one, and with his ballast 1500 lbs each side he has to go really slow and turn into the surfer so he can surf, then the wave if very tall and short. You end up surfing right off the swim deck, and running into it. All of the other options you mentioned would work, but I am definately biased toward my Enzo. It rides great in rough water with the deep V hull, etc.. I also slalom ski behind it, but the wake is too big to run a slalom course with.
Old    James Albertoni (slimjim44)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-26-2010, 9:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffymahoney View Post
Enzo will have the best surf wave and all the sacs should be hidden. It has a good-great wakeboard wake. First picture is a Sv24 wave.

Malibu will have a great wave but will require more weight and visible sacs. It has a good-great wakeboard wake. 2nd picture is a 247

X-55 will not as good of a surf wave but will have an awesome wakeboard wake. The hull isn't great for surfing.

Check out the Tige RZ4. It will have almost as good of a wave as the enzo and it will throw that wave on both sides.
Did Duffy just recommend a Tige for his second choice? Amazing. The fit and finish of the Tige's is greatly improved since mid 2000's and the surf wake is in the top 2 or 3. Best bet is to see if you can demo them all and try out the surf wake. From driving the staging boat at the Wake9 festival it is blatently apparent that everyone has different preferences for the perfect wake. One may fit your style better than the other.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-26-2010, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewkettle View Post
yea but will the enzo surf both sides, I dont have a real nice boat as stated above and keep folks that ride regular off of the boat cause its too much trouble to set it up for that side.
You can surf the Enzo on both sides. You just need the automatic trim tab (instead of the fixed plate) or the Switch Blade. If you have the automatic trim tab, surf with it all of the way down.

Like some have said, the Goofy wake is not as nice but it still is much better than most.

One more comment on the Bu, you will have to run a lot more weight to get the equivalent wake as an Enzo. From my understanding of the Bu pic above, he was running: 1,500lb custom sac, Power Wedge, weight on the ski deck and a boat full of people. This is not a complaint, just an observation.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-26-2010, 9:37 AM Reply   
Hey I have always liked Tige boats My buddies 2004 22v throws an awesome wave!
Old    Keith Robertson (creations)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 11:50 AM Reply   
Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. I am impressed at how well the Enzo is represented here and it was probably 3rd on my list simply because of Fit and Finish but I will assume you all know what you are talking about. 12 people in the Enzo no problem?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-26-2010, 12:12 PM Reply   
The newer Enzo's will come close or equal to a malibu or a mastercraft. Go see some in person. They are pretty high end now.
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-26-2010, 12:41 PM Reply   
I have the 23 foot Enzo (you are looking at the 24) and I have 12 people in it almost every time I go out. I have had 16 people in it, but some were kids. That is just too many people with their own agenda. 12 should be fine in the enzo. If you are looking at new 2010 you will be very happy with power and finish.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-26-2010, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by creations View Post
Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. I am impressed at how well the Enzo is represented here and it was probably 3rd on my list simply because of Fit and Finish but I will assume you all know what you are talking about. 12 people in the Enzo no problem?
The Enzo 240 is huge (102 inches wide and 24 ft long). Also, Centurion is really pushing to get into the top tier boat market, The finish out on the 2010's has increased substantially.

The LSV 247 is huge as well. It has more room behind the windshield and a smaller bow area.

I am sure the MC 55 will have a lot of room as well and the finish is top end. The surfwake will be awful.

IMO - 12 people on any boat is going to feel a little crowded when you include gear/food/drinks. Also, all of these boats are very nice and $$$$. Make sure your local dealer is someone you think you will be happy with.
Old    Keith Robertson (creations)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 1:44 PM Reply   
on 12 people I should clarify, 4-6 adults and 6-8 kids(teens)
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-26-2010, 8:02 PM Reply   
i struggled with my new purchase, i had a bu vlx, (sv23 hull) i have been behind xstars, supra 21 22 24, 23lsv and 24 lsv, a long list of others. truth be told, there are soo many great boats out there. i ended up getting an 09 enzo 23. the deal was great, the boat has everything that you need, its tight, handles chop like no other, makes a great wakeboard wake, no bs, i was worried i would loose the bu's wake, but its uber solid, rampy and you can slam the boat with weight without worrying about distribution. the enzos are not sensitive. I do not have a blade, just the bennit, 2 enzo sacs and a bow sack. It s not fast, nor does it turn like the bu, but it is stable, well built and i have been on alot of the newer top end boats. i would say they are different, but equal quallity, they have different fine points. take on out, you will love it good luck
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-26-2010, 9:54 PM Reply   
I have 6 kids, 19, 18, 15, 12, 9, and 4. And we often take out guests and/or other families, usually families of like 4 people. 12 people in the boat is a lot, and we have a Tige 24Ve. We looked VERY hard at the 247 and the X45, and the Supra 24, and a few others. We almost got the Malibu. The malibu has a HUGE area behind the windshield, but when we got out on it, the bow felt useless. Especially with teens/kids, you have to be able to throw a few of them in the bow, and they have to like being there. The mastercraft was the opposite, huge bow, less room behind. The Tige seemed to have the perfect balance. 2 people can spread out in the bow, and with the RZ4, you can have to people laid out, and one more at least facing backwards very comfortably.

For us, the seating area and bow size and stuff was a HUGE factor in our decision. Tige just seemed to have the best balance for us. So much so, we struggled ove the mastercraft and the malibu. There was no Tige dealer in our area. Then we heard of a tige dealer 2 hours away. We drove down, got in the boat, and put a deposit down without driving it. The feel inside, and balance of bow and cockpit area sold us instantly.

We are now selling our 24Ve, it has 475 hours on it and has never needed anything but just regular service. It has never been down. We are now moving to an RZ2. It seats one less, but the 22 foot boat makes a surf wake with less weight, and we love the RZ2 wake.

They are all great boats, get in them all. For us the Tige just had the perfect balance, and we have had up to 14 in it all day. 14 was a bit much, 12 was pretty comfortable, as long as you stowed all away, all boards in racks, and that 24Ve had a ton of storage. Good luck on your decision.

One more thing, don't underestimate the ability for the boat to put out a consistent wake on both sides if you surf. That is definitely a huge plus on our Tige. Same weight on each side makes the same wake on each side. If you are going to be having that many on board, and hosting others, you have to be able to switch sides. On our boat, 2 switches and in about 16 minutes, you are surfing the other side. We usually do one side, throw the switches, and jump in and swim for a bit while switching over.

Make sure you know as part of your decision how much weight it takes on either side, and what the wake you can expect to get out of that weight. It will impact your future enjoyment greatly.

ragboy
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-26-2010, 9:58 PM Reply   
On slimjim's comment, our 2007 24Ve definitely was a trade off on the quality of the vinyl and fit and finish of the interior. There was no question, the Supra, MC, and Bu had a much nicer interior, very noticeable. But for our family use, everything else was more important, and we still feel like we made the right decision.

However, the 2010 Tige is a whole different animal. You can't compare it to the older models, like our 2007. The fit and finish is DEFINITELY there in 2010. Huge difference.
Old     (StanleyWheelhouse)      Join Date: May 2010       05-27-2010, 5:55 AM Reply   
247 is the best wave in the business. now 247 owner has taken the time to perfect the wave like i have. my boat is automated. no visible sacs. every thing drains and fills with the flip of the switch. the people on the podium at the wakesurfing comps say our wave is the best in the business. come to houston and i will let you ride all you want.

I will take the Pepsi challenge any day of the week to any boat out there and win hands down!

247 has way more room than the Enzo and 24VE.

the second wave picture with the buoy is actually my pic and my wave. we were turning the boat at the time the photo was snapped and that pic does not do the wave the justice it deserves

Last edited by StanleyWheelhouse; 05-27-2010 at 5:57 AM. Reason: change
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-27-2010, 7:36 AM Reply   
Stanley,
Sorry I stole that picture from wakeoutlaws last year Don't you have a 300# sac on the swim deck in those pictures? Your boat is dialed for sure. I think if you put the same weight you have in your BU in an Enzo, it would be a great Pepsi challenge. They would need to be even. I liked that picture because it shows the length of the wave and the height. Post your weight setup? What year and hull do you have again? Has it changed? Bu's have an awesome resale value, which is a huge plus.

This thread has remained on topic so well Seems like boats should have a square foot or square inch of room in the bow and boat area. That way we could really tell how big the interior is. I honestly don't like a big bow area, it's a waste of space to me. I always loved how tall the Tige's top cap is. Makes the boat feel safe. Sorry I know Tige wasn't even on your list.

If it was me, and I had all the money in the world, it would be a very hard decision, but I would pick Tige RZ4 or supreme V226. Surfing both sides is too important to me. Also, I talk to the Shred Stixx pro's all the time about this exact topic. Chase and Johnny both said that the supreme V226 and the Tige RZ2 were awesome waves, they loved the shape and the size. Johnny said that the Enzo is still more powerful and the most powerful he has ridden. I know Chase said that Stanley's wave was amazing. No matter how well these boats are weighted everyone still says the same thing, that the enzo wave has more power. I honestly have never ridden a weighted Enzo. Hopefully this summer some of my centurion buddies are going to get me out on one. Cheers! and good luck with the purchase. You can't go wrong with any of these
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-27-2010, 8:13 AM Reply   
The SlayshTank LATX Strobe photoshoot thats online was shot on Stanley's 247. That boat is definitely setup right!

http://slayshtank.com/annoucements/w...hazen-an-beck/

(The one photo of Wes on the Comp 1 is from an older shoot)
Old     (StanleyWheelhouse)      Join Date: May 2010       05-27-2010, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffymahoney View Post
Stanley,
Sorry I stole that picture from wakeoutlaws last year Don't you have a 300# sac on the swim deck in those pictures? Your boat is dialed for sure. I think if you put the same weight you have in your BU in an Enzo, it would be a great Pepsi challenge. They would need to be even. I liked that picture because it shows the length of the wave and the height. Post your weight setup? What year and hull do you have again? Has it changed? Bu's have an awesome resale value, which is a huge plus.

I agree most people do not run enough weight in the Enzo. I think the Enzo produces a great wave. Blue Thunder is an 08 247. We run my custom 247 Surf Sac 1600 full a 400lb tube sac full under the observers seat and factory left center and front. i will add a 400 on the platform with a lite crew. we have not been doing this lately. i also run the wedge at three clicks up from the bottom of the gauge.

This thread has remained on topic so well Seems like boats should have a square foot or square inch of room in the bow and boat area. That way we could really tell how big the interior is. I honestly don't like a big bow area, it's a waste of space to me. I always loved how tall the Tige's top cap is. Makes the boat feel safe. Sorry I know Tige wasn't even on your list.

I like the Enzo it is a great boat. just smaller than the 247. i think Enzo buts too much emphasis on the bow are and most people do not ride there.

If it was me, and I had all the money in the world, it would be a very hard decision, but I would pick Tige RZ4 or supreme V226. Surfing both sides is too important to me. Also, I talk to the Shred Stixx pro's all the time about this exact topic. Chase and Johnny both said that the supreme V226 and the Tige RZ2 were awesome waves, they loved the shape and the size. Johnny said that the Enzo is still more powerful and the most powerful he has ridden. I know Chase said that Stanley's wave was amazing. No matter how well these boats are weighted everyone still says the same thing, that the enzo wave has more power. I honestly have never ridden a weighted Enzo. Hopefully this summer some of my centurion buddies are going to get me out on one. Cheers! and good luck with the purchase. You can't go wrong with any of these
agreed they are all great boats. however Blue Thunder and 247s throw a better goofy wave with less weight than the regular wave. you dont see the pics though because most of the time we ride regular. i will snap and post some.

the goofy wave setup is a custom surf sac for the goofy side which is about 800 pounds with factory ballast
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-27-2010, 10:18 AM Reply   
On the 247 wake, I don't doubt it, I just have never seen it, except in pictures. If you are ever in the lake oroville area get a hold of me. I will bring down the crew and cameras and film in full glory. Or malibu can bring one down. I would love to document any boat manufactured that throws a great wake on both sides, with little to reasonable effort, with all water weight and hidden. And roughly the same setup on each side. That makes a true surf boat in my opinion.

On the room in the 247, it does have a ton of room, but at a huge trade off in the bow, which is great for some, but doesn't work for my family. Like I said, we almost bought the malibu, nice boat, no question. But the bow was THAT important to my family.

Anyway, don't underestimate my willingness to document a boat with a factory hull that throws a great wake on both sides, as described above. It is probably the closest thing to the "pepsi challenge". We film it the same way we have filmed others, put the video up and let people choose. The best pepsi challenge would be to have a demo day with all the boats, and let people ride them. Wouldn't that be great? Walk up to a lake like Camp Far West, and on the shore, you have a couple of Tiges, Bu's, Centurions, Ski Supreme V226, maybe a SVFara, Avalanche. And a rep from each to take you out on a ride? (edit: not intentionally leaving anyone out, just off the top of my head.)

I could tell you, I know that Tige and Ski Supreme would be up for that. They both have a great attitude that I respect. They have great confidence in their products, as long as their boat gets a fair shake, a good ride with the cust along with all else, they would do it.

If I had 4 manufacturers at least that would commit, I would set it up and promote it. Their won't be a clear winner, due to preference, but it sure would be fun, and definitely resolve the issue of which boats throw great wakes on both sides.

A boy can dream. ;-)

Last edited by ragboy; 05-27-2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason: correction
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-27-2010, 1:00 PM Reply   
I would go test drive the Bu 247, Enzo 240 and Tige RZ4 and decide which one fits you best. They are all great boats. I would also consider which dealer you like the best as well (this and $ would be my tie breaker). Also, when you go test drive the boats, make sure you take a few fat sacs with you. None of the dealer installed ballast systems will have enough weight to produce a good surf wake (unless you have 1,200lbs of people ballast with you).

Also, Stanley is right. The Bu 247 does have more room. I believe it is nearly 7" longer. I dont know how wide it is.

Note: make sure the Enzo 240 has automatic trim tab (surf tab or wake plate - whatever the dealer calls it these days). You will need this all the way down on the goofy wake.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-27-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
Yes, good point, dealer should be a huge part of the equation.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-28-2010, 1:09 AM Reply   
Don't forget Sanger 237 for your pepsi challenge
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-28-2010, 9:20 AM Reply   
Definitely.
Old     (StanleyWheelhouse)      Join Date: May 2010       06-03-2010, 9:49 AM Reply   
247 Goofy Wave with approx 800 lbs in locker and factory r c f full and full wedge we also use the wedge three clicks up from the bottom of the arc

dealer is also important mine here in houston takes very good care of us!!!! in fact i am buying my forth boat from them in since 06. "Sparkles" is being built as i type.
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Old    Kevin Vrooman (Lohe)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-12-2010, 9:37 AM Reply   
I would go test drive the Bu 247, Enzo 240 and Tige RZ4 and decide which one fits you best.


This. All of these are great boats.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-12-2010, 9:50 AM Reply   
I wish I could afford any of those boats

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