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Old    Phil (mmobius2001)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-25-2010, 10:07 PM Reply   
Ok so what does everyone think of the following Suv/Trucks for #1 Towing short distances daily and long distances on occasion. #2 Daily driving 15 miles to work daily (10 miles freeway). #3 Snow snow snow! i live in an area w/ really bad lake effect snow, its BAD need something that will plow through. and #4 something i want to keep for 6-7yrs and put about 100k miles on it.

i'll be buying most likely 2007-2008 w/ 25-40k miles already on it.

1. Hummer H3 "love the style and its just unique imo, something different, but concerned about towing"
2. Nissan Xterra "probably last on my list, mostly just affordable"
3. Jeep Commander (V8) "not a fan of the exterior, but overall a great value w/ the powerful v8"
4. Ford Eddie Bauer Explorer (V8) "this was my 1st choice for awhile but im having 2nd thoughts"
5. GMC Envoy Denali (v8) "has a beefy v8 and i always have liked the denali packages"

These are the 5 i have narrowed down to. Im looking at 18-22k purchase price. I'm looking for something that i will keep and not get sick of.

My past cars i've had:

1994 Ranger 4x4 4.0 V6 - Towed my 2004 Mobius with this, it did ok, almost got to 70mph on freeway but had to sell to my brother.
2002 BMW 330 - Absolutely loved this car!!! everything about it was great
2004 Ford FX4 150 Crew Cab - Great power, great towing, just thought it was a little too big for my taste, i got sick of it after a couple years.... and hated the MPG's
2006 Ford F150 XLT - it was kinda a basic model, i liked the tow power, again hated the MPGs and i got sick of it fairly quick....
2008 Ford Escape Limited V6 - Love the handling, MPG, good in snow. But the power in this thing is awful! 200hp w/ 190tq... towing is a joke.

thanks in advance

Last edited by mmobius2001; 05-25-2010 at 10:13 PM. Reason: added car
Old    Phil (mmobius2001)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-25-2010, 10:10 PM Reply   
the biggest thing im sick of is having class 2 towing, my boat has the auto brakes and i have to get out and put a stopper thing on the brake system, i want the class 3 w/ the 5 point so i cant just put the gear in reverse and go! lol
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       05-25-2010, 10:14 PM Reply   
What are the tow ratings of those vehicles compared to your boat? You "can" tow with about anything. Safely towing is another story.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       05-25-2010, 10:50 PM Reply   
What are you towing?

1. No. 5 cylinders
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.

Those are not made for towing boats. Just because they have a V8, doesn't mean they'll tow well. They'll be able to pull it, but what about stopping, or evasive manuevers in an emergency? Or are you thinking it can't happen to you?

Why can't anybody buy a full-size truck? They get the same amount or better gas mileage then these mid-sized SUV's.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       05-25-2010, 11:22 PM Reply   
Which is why I tower with a 3/4 ton truck. Has the towing power and the stopping power. Proved that last year at a stop light on a down hill slope.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       05-26-2010, 12:56 AM Reply   
I moved a 21' Moomba sitting on a single-axle trailer out of my shop the other day with my Crapfinder. It sagged the rear suspension at least 4", and when I got it out and facing downhill, it had a hard time stopping it. Made me feel real good about the people that do that all the time.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-26-2010, 4:35 AM Reply   
Out of the list you posted I like the GMC.
Old    Matt Foell (vr6mole)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-26-2010, 4:45 AM Reply   
I went through the same thing. Ended up with an 05 Explorer Limited V8. All black with the chrome roof racks and black interior (the last year for the old interior)

I honestly think I made the right choice. It tows fine when I need to make the short distance to get the boat from the marina but also did a 300 mile trip as well.

Trailer brakes are a must and also I hear those shock absorbing hitches are money.
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-26-2010, 6:34 AM Reply   
Find a used crew cab truck. Since about 2004 most pickups come with electronic brake distribution, tow settings for transmission shifting, ventilated rotors, and 7500 pounds of towing and 1800 payload. You can fit a family of 5 comfortably, and fill the rear up with everything you need to.

None of the vehicles you listed would I trust the transmission on after a summer of towing my 5000 pounds of boat and gear. The you throw a family in the car and you grossly exceed the GVWR on the vehicle, pretty much voiding ANY payout by insurance if you are in an accident. If your brakes don't get the car stopped, and the insurance company finds you were over the vehicle's towing capacity, you will probably be stuck with no help from them.

1. NO. 2004 model has 4500 pounds of towing and 1150 payload.
2. NO. 2004 model has 5000 pounds of towing (probably pushing it) and 1004 payload. A fat family can't even ride safe in this car.
3. NO. Claims 7200/1490, but I highly doubt the suspension is durable enough to handle towing very well. Those are really small. Plus it's a Jeep which are not known for reliability recently, and it's all of about 7 feet long.......really?
4. The Eddie Bauer is pretty close to the same specs as a half ton truck.
5. NO. 6500/1215. I would stick with something 7000 pounds or more.

In the end it's about how close you want to run to max capacities. Those are MAX weight ratings, as in if you go over them bad **** happens. You are asking if you should continually push the transmissions, engines, and suspensions in those SUVs to MAX every time you pull the boat. he answer is no. It will cost you in the long run.

Why is this still even discussed?
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-26-2010, 6:46 AM Reply   
yeah out of that list i would say the Denalli would be best but I would seriously look at a truck... if you get a crew cab you have just as much interior space as a SUV but more storage cause you have the 4-6ft bed... slap a tonneau on it and it will stay dry... If you do go look at trucks I would look at diesels if you want the best towing vehicle... I am partial to the Tundra(for gas engines) because they are towing machines, have huge brakes, and get pretty decent gas mileage while towing(i know cause I own one)... for diesel I would get a GMC Sierra 2500HD I believe they have the allison tranny which is the best transmission gets great gas mileage while towing, can stop just about anything, you prolly won't even realize the boat is on there cause it will just be effortless(depending on how big your boat is).... You will prolyl get 16-18mpg with diesel while towing and 11-14 mpg on gas while towing... I have experience with the GMC diesels as my family uses them as farm trucks (we farm about 6000 acres) so I am going to be pretty close to what your numbers will be...
Old    Paul Strahm (jps912)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-26-2010, 6:55 AM Reply   
The 2500hd with the duramax and the Allison tranny are great. Thats what we tow our boat with. Cant even tell its there uphill or downhill. Very comfy truck too. Its my dads daily driver.
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-26-2010, 7:05 AM Reply   
Based on the vehicles in the list, I doubt a 2500HD with an Allison is in his price range (book on mine is still 24k), however a 2500HD w/ 6.0, 1500HD, or 1500 are....in crew cab form. They are probably cheaper than half the SUVs listed.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-26-2010, 7:07 AM Reply   
I believe in the 3/4 ton or more for any real towing. But a half ton will do good. The stuff you listed would tow a dingy or small trash trailer. I wouldn't wanna do much with what you listed. Find something bigger
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-26-2010, 7:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyb View Post
What are you towing?

1. No. 5 cylinders
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.

Those are not made for towing boats. Just because they have a V8, doesn't mean they'll tow well. They'll be able to pull it, but what about stopping, or evasive manuevers in an emergency? Or are you thinking it can't happen to you?

Why can't anybody buy a full-size truck? They get the same amount or better gas mileage then these mid-sized SUV's.
Or my question, why dont people realize they dont need a full size truck to tow? Dont kid yourself into thinking that a full size truck is going to handle evasive manuevers that much better than a mid sized sport ute. Sometimes with the advanced stability systems found on sport utes, they can actually be better for emergency maneuvers.

I have towed many boats with a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee V-8, max tow rated at 6500 lbs. I have made evasive moves, emergency stops, etc. That was with a boat that weighed just as much if not more than the 21-23 ft wakeboarding boats out currently.

These boats do not weigh that much. If you were towing a boat that weighed 6k+, yes you need a full size truck. Otherwise, a full size is nice but not necessary.

Out of the vehicles listed, I would say the Envoy would be the best choice followed by the Commander, and then Explorer. My neighbor loves towing his Mastercraft with his Commander. I would be interested to try the H3, but without the optional V-8 its probably going to be a dog towing. If anyone here thinks an Envoy cannot handle a Mobius, they need their heads examined.
Old    Brian (RYDEAZ11)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 7:26 AM Reply   
I tow my toys with an 07 F150 XLT 4x4 best 1/2 ton towing truck I have owned (and I have owned chevy and dodge's) I use it as a daily driver as well about 40 miles there and back for work. I average 17 on my all round in town driving and when I drive to California I usually average between 19-21mpg. But that is with some mods added like exhaust, CAI, and a programmer.

But if you are choosing between those...the Denali just cause I think in that package is included better brakes, tranny cooler and oil cooler. And they may do the rear air ride in those like they do in the yukon denali's. Which is nice to have cause it eliminates the sag

Last edited by RYDEAZ11; 05-26-2010 at 7:29 AM. Reason: added some
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       05-26-2010, 7:41 AM Reply   
maybe I missed it in the post, but shouldn't the answer be based on how and where you tow. Like how far, is there mountains, hills, etc. Anyway, I tow 70 miles to and from over a a 1200 foot pass. My 7.3 diesel does great. I would go with the Ford b/c it is the most common of the the trucks coupled with the fact that it is a V8 with a real frame. My buddy tows his 2008 X-star with the Honda truck thing. Good luck!
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-26-2010, 8:29 AM Reply   
Here's a novel idea guys why don't we stick to the list he posted?

Of the 5 you have listed the two best for towing your boat is going to be the Explorer and the Envoy. I don't think they make the Envoy anymore so for me I'd go with the Explorer V8. You look like a Ford man so you may as well stay in the family. The Explorer has 292 hp/ 300 torque and tows over 7000lbs.
Old    Ash (stuntmonkey)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-26-2010, 8:37 AM Reply   
Because the list he posted sucks, none of those are made for towing, or will actually do it well. Its obvious he's not serious about towing so we can't really help him.

So sick of people not taking these things seriously, if you're going to tow, do it right. Don't buy some half assed suv that won't stop when you need it too, all you do is endanger yourself and others on the road.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-26-2010, 8:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmonkey View Post
Because the list he posted sucks, none of those are made for towing, or will actually do it well. Its obvious he's not serious about towing so we can't really help him.

So sick of people not taking these things seriously, if you're going to tow, do it right. Don't buy some half assed suv that won't stop when you need it too, all you do is endanger yourself and others on the road.
Yep, apparently I have half assed my way to 130,000+ trouble-free miles with a "wont do well" Jeep Grand Cherokee towing an average load of 5000lbs.

I must be endangering myself and everyone on the road.

Seriously, I love posts like this. Anything to justify that gigantic truck, right?

I have never had an issue outbraking a semi while trailering. If thats the case, wouldnt the thousands of those be way more dangerous on the roads than me with my tow setup?

And clearly if it does not have a bed on it, it was not designed for towing. I mean, no manufacturer would ever spend the time testing towing capabilities on an SUV, right? As an engineer who has worked in the automotive field, your post amuses me.

Last edited by MattieK27; 05-26-2010 at 8:57 AM.
Old    Jason B (boomboom)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-26-2010, 9:01 AM Reply   
I kinda have to agree, if towing IS a priority, why not get a vehicle made for towing?? Realistically, at 30 miles round trip to work...that's not that much man. You could VERY comfortably do that every day in a truck. My Tundra is a daily driver, 80 miles round trip to work, is 9 years old, has 190k miles on it and STILL drives fantastic and tows perfectly fine.
I think you're really kinda missing the mark if you want towing at the top of your list for attributes of the new car.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-26-2010, 9:50 AM Reply   
Looking at your history you seem like a Ford guy. I never was so I can't judge the Explorer. For your listed uses I think I would try to find an AWD instead of a 4WD. If you like the Envoy Denali you should look at the Saab 9-7x which has the same base and general look,but a tuned suspension and the AWD. The H3 is the same base also but is more tuned for off road if you want that style.
For daily driving look at things like turn radius and visibility in the parking lot. Good luck.
Old    David (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-26-2010, 10:26 AM Reply   
Clearly on WW you need a 3/4 ton diesel to tow a 5k# boat. Some of you people are fools.

Either the Envoy or The Explorer will do the job well. Unless your climbing big long hills or have a 23' loaded down boat then I would recommend a bigger truck or SUV.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-26-2010, 10:32 AM Reply   
If a vehicle is DESIGNED/CAPABLE of towing 5000/7000/12,000 lbs then its DESIGNED/CAPABLE of arresting the load as well. You don't NEED a 12,5 tow rig to tow 5,000lbs. Is it better/easier? Yes, but not necessary. It's not as if Ford, GMC, etc is just guessing at the tow ratings on these vehicles. They are tested and proven hard numbers.
Old    nEwJ_HoSeR (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-26-2010, 11:33 AM Reply   
1 vote for the Jeep Commander
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-26-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   
I had to make an emergency stop with my 3000 lb boat last week. I would say that as long as your trailer brakes are in good working order you should have nothing to worry about. My trailer brakes engaged and i was able to slow down just fine. You can definately feel when they kick in. This was with an Isuzu ascender I6 same vehicle as the Envoy. With the I6 it struggles with shift points up steep grades . It's 275 HP w 275 lb Ft of torque. If you had the V8 Envoy with the air ride suspension you will do just fine.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-26-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   
HIJACK:

Quote:
2002 BMW 330 - Absolutely loved this car!!! everything about it was great
On this, you are 150% correct~!!! I own a 2003.
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-26-2010, 2:00 PM Reply   
if you "WERE" an engineer for the auto industry you MUST know what you are talking about... I never said you NEED a diesel to tow a boat my father in law tows his boat with a 2004 Explorer V6 and yeah it tows it the 35 miles to the lake and back but the bearings are going bad along with the shocks , tires, and tranny because its not DESIGNED to tow a boat and the 5 people and all the gear... and YES a good quality used 2500 HD with allison can be had for around 22k AND it will last A LOT longer than ANY of those vehicles above


Again I don't even own this truck but I know them cause we use them on the farm and they are built VERY WELL.. and still get decent mileage

I don't give a **** if you designed the **** vehicle if you don't know how it pulls, runs, and performs you don't know jack buddy so get off your IM AN ENGINEER HIGH HORSE..... ok done ranting sorry love the forum here!
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-26-2010, 2:26 PM Reply   
i think this might have the allison but i am not 100% sure

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-...item45f31c3aff
Old    Craig Cox (wakedoctor)      Join Date: Dec 2004       05-26-2010, 2:41 PM Reply   
I have experience pulling with a F-250, Yukon, Grand Cherokee, 3500 Chevy. I have pulled 20' and 22' foot boats with the SUVs and 12,000 plus loads with the heavy duty trucks.

Once you get to a 22' boat you will want to go to a full size truck if you are going to be towing longer distances. If you will be pulling across elevations, regardless of boat size, the jump to a full size would also be nice but not necessary. So I would test drive 3-5 on your list and make the decision from there. I have heard good things from all three. The reason I would not pick the H3, even though they can be found with the V8, is because the blind spots in those would make everyday towing a little more of a hassle. I am sure there will be more comments pop up about a diesel but you don't need a diesel. For some reason everyone on this board wants to run 90 mph to the lake and you will need a heavy truck to comfortably do that. However, you have to remember you are towing with a smaller vehicle and need to slow it down a bit for stopping reasons. Most the people have experience stopping are not servicing and checking their trailer brakes and or running way to fast.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-26-2010, 2:44 PM Reply   
I have a 3/4ton, love it. BUT if you need a SUV, look into an Armada or any Hemi Jeep (grand cherokee or commander) I think they will allow you to tow your Mobius. One boss has the envoy 6 cyl and the other a commander hemi. Interior the envoy has more room, the commander has more amenities.
Old    Brian (RYDEAZ11)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 2:46 PM Reply   
Having pulled using Dodge Ram 1500, Chevy Duramax 3500, and now a F150 XLT 4x4 I will never go under a half ton truck to tow. I chose the F150 cause they have great stock torque for towing...me being the man I am had to add to it and did CAI, programmer, and exhaust. It pulls like a dream. I can't compare anything to the Duramax that would not be fair to the other half tons. But between ford and dodge. My ford pulled better handled better and braked WAY better then the dodge. For price range you are looking at though you could get a decent full size and throw a couple mods to improve gas mileage (I went from getting 300 mile per tank to 420-450 per tank with the mods) and be just fine IMO.
Old    Ash (stuntmonkey)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-26-2010, 2:55 PM Reply   
David reread his post. He says occassionally towing long distances. An envoy isn't very good for that, and considering that's one of the tow vehicles I use I'm speaking from experience.

Whoever said the car manufacturers aren't guessing the tow limits........unless it's a truck, they are purely based on the chassis/engine/brakes and a short test during development. They are not designed for towing boats, simply a small trailer that grandpa can put his golf cart on.

They put "4000lb towing capacity" on the specs so that the suburban father who buys it can tow 4000lbs once in a blue moon and subconsciously know that when he never buys that fishing boat he's alwas wanted, he couldve towed it.

Last edited by stuntmonkey; 05-26-2010 at 3:00 PM.
Old    Joe (superairdawg)      Join Date: May 2003       05-26-2010, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
I don't give a **** if you designed the **** vehicle if you don't know how it pulls, runs, and performs you don't know jack buddy so get off your IM AN ENGINEER HIGH HORSE..... ok done ranting sorry love the forum here!
Wow... apparently some people are ignorant enough to believe the engineers that design these rigs don't drive the pants off competitor vehicles, and under much, much more rigorous conditions than john q. public. Nor that many of those very same engineers have also had more hours of professional driving instruction than most aspiring racers, just so they can understand the ultimate performance aspects of what they're designing.

Let the ranting continue, as our original poster apparently didn't realize he instantly became flame bait the moment he posted interest in towing his boat with something other than a semi.
Old    Justin (texasmoombav)      Join Date: May 2009       05-26-2010, 3:29 PM Reply   
I use a 08 Commander with the 4.7 V8. I would Not recommend this vehicle for towing. I plan to go bigger for sure when I get out of this Jeep. Which would be now, if I could. Not only does it not tow or stop well, but the gas milage is horrible for the size of suv.
Old    Brian (RYDEAZ11)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 3:36 PM Reply   
All dodges IMO do not stop well. But I have never driven the 2500 or 3500 ones or the big horn editions with the upgraded brakes (or that is what the dealership told me it had when I bought my dodge)
Old    David (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-26-2010, 4:25 PM Reply   
I've owned a trailblazer with the I6 and towed many years with it. worked fine. would a v8 truck or diesel have worked better? sure. But did it get the job done? YES! If you use a vehicle within it's specified tow limits you are not hurting it, unless you just drive like an idiot. Trailers have brakes for a reason, because you can't expect a vehicle to stop the loaded trailer on its own in emergencies.
The tow ratings are not just thrown out there, they are tested and engineered to meet those ratings. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

Everyone buy what you want and just get to the water, that is what's important. I'll see ya out there!

Last edited by detonate69; 05-26-2010 at 4:28 PM.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-26-2010, 7:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
if you "WERE" an engineer for the auto industry you MUST know what you are talking about... I never said you NEED a diesel to tow a boat my father in law tows his boat with a 2004 Explorer V6 and yeah it tows it the 35 miles to the lake and back but the bearings are going bad along with the shocks , tires, and tranny because its not DESIGNED to tow a boat and the 5 people and all the gear... and YES a good quality used 2500 HD with allison can be had for around 22k AND it will last A LOT longer than ANY of those vehicles above


Again I don't even own this truck but I know them cause we use them on the farm and they are built VERY WELL.. and still get decent mileage

I don't give a **** if you designed the **** vehicle if you don't know how it pulls, runs, and performs you don't know jack buddy so get off your IM AN ENGINEER HIGH HORSE..... ok done ranting sorry love the forum here!
Hmmm, I wasn't aware I was on my "I'm an engineer" high horse, but since I apparently am I will step down. Classy post, enjoy the farm...

It confuses me how people that are towing 22' boats require bigger tow rigs than most of the go-fast boat crowd I have been around.
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-27-2010, 7:51 AM Reply   
Before I got my wife a Sequoia, we had a Trailblazer (Envoy), and I pulled my much lighter boat with it (4000 lbs boat and trailer) to a river about an hour North. It had the standard Isuzu inline 6. I would not recommend towing with it. I think I got 7 MPG, it wouldn't stop the load well, even with working trailer brakes, and acceleration was non-existent.

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