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Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-25-2010, 1:52 PM Reply   
I am going to order the se of Kicker KM6500.2 and the extra mids KM6500 tomorrow. The price is about 730.00.... For the price this seems like a great option...

Any suggestions on a amp would be helpfull... As of right now im going to push them with a Kicker ZX650.4.

Is there any other options for this price out there...Just trying to cover all my bases before i place the order.

Thanks
Derek
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-25-2010, 2:23 PM Reply   
Bullet lines is selling 8" HLCDs for $250 a pair and another $200 for the cans. So you could have two pairs of 8"s for the same price. You have to call or email to get the deal. I have a 4 of these speakers powered by a hifonics amp and they rock!
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-25-2010, 5:14 PM Reply   
I sent out a email to Bullet lines... we will see what kind of price they have.
Any other suggestions..
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-25-2010, 5:41 PM Reply   
Do you have tower speakers now? If you do, you could always replace them with actual bullets hallow point 6.5" HLCDs.
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-25-2010, 6:32 PM Reply   
Yeah i have 6 6.5 on there now in a fiberglass enclosure... Ive heard only good things about the kickers..
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-25-2010, 10:02 PM Reply   
Phil,

Calling Phil White...

Come-in Phil...
Old    Ray M (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-25-2010, 10:37 PM Reply   
Unless I am mistaking this with a different thread, I believe Phil already posted, but it is no longer here
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-26-2010, 3:01 AM Reply   
I did post a previous thread... I was just checking other alternatives before i spend the money.. i hate buyers regret ... Phil has been very helpfull in my choice. Mike thanks for the amp suggestions..
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-26-2010, 7:13 AM Reply   
Good morning Guys!

Sorry I missed this; I was out of the office Friday, I was with my Dad, who had surgery... He is doing well by the way...

The hot setup if you are going to add the Km6500's to the Km6500.2s will be a pair of ZX300.1 monoblocks, witha KX2 crossover. The ZX300.1 is marketed as a subwoofer amp, but it is a very nice full range class A/B monoblock amplifier.

What you will do is come from the head unit or any EQ you might be using, and hit the KX2 crossover. Use the hi-pass output of the crossover, (set to 80- 100 Hz or so) and take the left signal to one of the amps, and the right signal to the other. Use y-cords at the amp to deliver the RCA signal into both inputs of the amp. Wire up half the KM6500.2 and one of the mids from the KM6500 to each amp. Put another way, wire two mids and one horn to each 300.1. That will provide a 2-ohm load and you will get a full 300 watts out of each amp, for a 600 watt tower system.


The 650.4 will be a good choice too, and you will not need the crossover, but you will get a tiny bit less power. Comparing the two options, going withn the 650.4 will be a tiny bit cheaper, but not much. If you go with the 650.4 you will use half the amp, ( AMP1) to drive the KM6500.2's and use the other half, (AMP2) to drive the KM6500's. In this configuration you will show a 4-ohm load to each of the four amp channels and you will deliver roughly 120 watts from each amp channnel for a tower system approaching 500 watts total power. So you know, you CANNOT operate the 650.4 in bridge mode for the total tower speaker setup; the impedance is too low. With the 650.4 wired this way the amp will run pretty cool, and the 4-ohm load per channel will be an easy load to drive! As you can see, you get slightly less power when compared witha pair of the 300.1's but at this level, you might find you cannot hear a volume difference.

Finally, we designed the total system to run efficiently and stable on a stereo amplifier.... From the beginning, there was a mandate that the KM6500.2 and the accessory KM6500 mids be NO LOWER than 4-ohms; they are not that very common 3.2 - 3.6 ohm that is so common with coax speakers these days. Our goal was to be able to allow an average consumer to buy the KM6500.2's and put them on a proper stereo amp delivering 150 - 200 watts RMS power at a 4-ohm load, and then be able to add the KM6500 accessory mids later, WITHOUT having to go buy a new amp!
IN THIS INSTANCE, since we designed it this way from the beginning, I will also recommend the ZXM450.2 as a suitable amplifier for the total 6-can tower setup, (I know, this is a departure from my general mantra of only showing any amp channel a 4-ohm load). This will load the amp down to 2-ohms on both channels, delivering 225 watts per side. You will wire 2 mids and one horn to each amp channel. This is the least expensive of all the options, but still a solid option performance-wise.




SO in summary:

2 ZX300.1 monoblocks, ( plus the KX2 crossover) = 600 watts RMS total system power, 6 cans
1 ZX650.4 4-vchannel amp = 480 - 500 watts RMS total system power, 6 cans
1 ZXM450.2 stereo amp = 450 watts RMS total system power, 6 cans

Any questions, fire back; I am here today....

Phil
Kicker
Old    Ray M (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-26-2010, 7:14 AM Reply   
Ohh, right on. I was just confused cause it was similar and I wouldn't have guessed anything Phil posted would be worthy of deletion

edit: he's too quick!
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-26-2010, 7:48 AM Reply   
OH!!!!!

I should add something.... There is a volume-level-pad jumper on the back of the horn, on the crossover. When removed from the package, the horn is set at 0dB, which is a flat response suitable for a 4-can system, (2 mids, 2 horns as the KM6500.2 is packaged).

When you add the extra KM65000 mids, you will want to move the jumper from 0dB to +6dB. This way, the horn's output is inceased so it can keep uo with the extra sound pressure from doubling the midrange count.

Some of you might want extra HF response from your basic 4-can KM6500.2 system, (we all have our own opinion on how we want things to sound). If so, you can move the jumper from 0dBb to +6dB and give it a listen. Again, with the jumper set to odB, the system delivers a smooth nomnally flat frequency response, which is more accurate, but if you personally prefer a brighter (louder) horn output, you have that option, just by moving the jumper.

Hope this added info helps!

Phil
Kicker
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-26-2010, 10:08 AM Reply   
I hope to have a set up by memorial day.... will post pics and video if possible as soon as I get them up there. Plan on installing the 2 SKM10's (10" Kicker Marine Subs) tomorrow
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-02-2010, 4:06 PM Reply   
Here is a link to them on ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kicker-Marine-Ho...item27b165bc25
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-02-2010, 5:23 PM Reply   
Placed the order (km65002, Km6500). Went with an authorized dealer... Building a fiberglass enclosure to hold them (2 3 speaker pods). The result looks good so far on the enclosure, hope to get them gel coated next week. I will post pics when its finished..
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-02-2010, 6:19 PM Reply   
Here's a pic of the Kicker KM6000.2 6-pack I got finished up this weekend.

Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-02-2010, 6:51 PM Reply   
That looks awesome...How do they sound. Im looking forward to getting mine finished up.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-02-2010, 7:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaman2112 View Post
That looks awesome...How do they sound. Im looking forward to getting mine finished up.
Up close they sound AWESOME. They are loud and crystal clear. The owner just told me that they got out this afternoon and the setup was loud and clear while boarding. IMO, Kicker hit this one out of the park, I cant wait to do the next setup with even more power to them. This setup is driven with the new ZXM450.2 Kicker marine amp - 225 x 2 @ 2 Ohm.
Old    Steve (skongolf)      Join Date: Aug 2009       05-02-2010, 7:13 PM Reply   
What cans did you use?
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-02-2010, 7:13 PM Reply   
Thats good to hear.. Im going to be pushing them with the Arc 300.2.. Should get 350x2 @ 2 Ohms...
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-02-2010, 9:38 PM Reply   
I got mine in too..... but I have to modify the enclosures before I can get them in. Might take a little bit of time.... :-(
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-03-2010, 6:58 AM Reply   
Sean-

Thanks for pointing that out. An explanation is in order.

The KM6500.2 fitment is based on a standrad 165mm basket cutout and bolt hole pattern. This is the same as a typical 6.5" car coaxial, yet it is a different cutout and bolt circle diameter than a typical in-boat marine speaker. While the KM6500.2 grill looks virtually identical to the KM6250.2 marine component grill, the two are not interchangeable.

Most wake tower cans are manufactured with the 165mm standard, so we went that route with the KM6500.2. You built your H2O PRO can systems to take advantage of the Kicker Marine coaxials, which are built around a standard production in-boat speaker cutout. hence the different hole and bolt circle dimensions. It is a minor difference, but one that people need to be aware of.

The KM6500.2's should fit the majority of cans out there without a need for modification, but there will still be some where the cans need to be tweaked in order to make things fit together right.

Phil
Kicker
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-03-2010, 7:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skongolf View Post
What cans did you use?
Long story. I used a can that is marketed for the Do It Yourselfer, and it's not a can that I would ever do in a customer-pay install. This was a promo deal, so if there is an issue with the fit/finish of the cans, I eat it, no big deal. Now for the story. I did not think I would have these speakers on hand in time for the Feb boat show. So, when I got the news that I would have a set, it was 2 weeks before the show. I needed a quick solution and these inexpensive cans fit the bill. After the show, the owner of the boat and I decided that they would look good on the tower, so we decided to roll with them since we already had 4 cans.

If someone is looking for a decent can at a budget price, these will work out for them, but IMP, will start to show some age after a season or two.
Old    Razzman (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       05-03-2010, 7:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
Long story. I used a can that is marketed for the Do It Yourselfer, and it's not a can that I would ever do in a customer-pay install. This was a promo deal, so if there is an issue with the fit/finish of the cans, I eat it, no big deal. Now for the story. I did not think I would have these speakers on hand in time for the Feb boat show. So, when I got the news that I would have a set, it was 2 weeks before the show. I needed a quick solution and these inexpensive cans fit the bill. After the show, the owner of the boat and I decided that they would look good on the tower, so we decided to roll with them since we already had 4 cans.

If someone is looking for a decent can at a budget price, these will work out for them, but IMP, will start to show some age after a season or two.
Mike your right about the DIY cans, while they're not bad they're far from the best. I used them on my last boat (tigé) and after a season they looked like they'd been used five. They're not high grade aluminum and the finish is marginal imo. If i was to use them again i would re-polish and coat with a UV stable clear enamel or the like. Or have them powder coated or painted.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-03-2010, 8:11 AM Reply   
Phil,

The specs on the box seem to leave a lot to chance, can you clear some things up? The box lists the mounting hole diameter as 144, and then in a picture with some randomly selected dimensions shows the cutout as 144 also. I'll assume that mounting hole diameter spec it gives was meant to be mounting hole cutout diameter not mounting hole bolt pattern diameter, which I think you mention as being 165mm above. Do you know what the OD? It is very easy to determine if these fit in speaker cans if you give those 3 dimensions. Thanks!

cutout diameter-144mm
bolt hole diameter-165mm
outer diameter- ???
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-03-2010, 8:41 AM Reply   
Joe-

I believe the term mounting hole and cutout are bascially interchangeable. I have sent a note to my engineering team to confirm, but I have parts here and have measured the following from actual parts

The mid basket has an OD of 167mm, roughly 6-5/8ths This is where teh 165mm standard comes from; the frame OD
The cutout/mounting hole for both the mid and the horn is 144mm, roughly 5-11/16ths
The bolt hole diamater is 155mm, just under 6-1/8ths
the mid grill and the horn have an OD of 175mm, roughly 6-15/16th, or almost 7 inches

in summary:
cutout = 144mm
bolt hole dia. = 155mm
outer dia. = 175mm

Phil
Kicker

Last edited by philwsailz; 05-03-2010 at 8:45 AM.
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-03-2010, 10:10 AM Reply   
I think that was a good Idea to put that info on here Phil..... I belive there will be a lot of people to think that the grills are the same as the KM620's-613's .

Why don't you guys put the diameter of the speaker on the box or website with the product info? Just wondering. They look great and I'm super excited about them. I just need to do a little machining :-)
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-03-2010, 4:36 PM Reply   
Thanks Phil!
Old    Shaun Guin (opossum)      Join Date: Jun 2008       05-04-2010, 7:09 AM Reply   
Glad to hear some feedback on these. Mike I know you said they sound awesome but how do they compare to WS or Bullets? Do they project at 80' as loud and/or as clear or are they at least comparable with them being at a lower price range?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-04-2010, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by opossum View Post
Glad to hear some feedback on these. Mike I know you said they sound awesome but how do they compare to WS or Bullets? Do they project at 80' as loud and/or as clear or are they at least comparable with them being at a lower price range?
Shaun,

Like every hot rod, they have their own unique sound, a signature if you will. There is no way I can say they sound better/worse then brands X and Z. What I can say is that I do feel that these are a serious contender in the 6-7 in HLCD ring. Every one's listening preference is so subjective, that for me to say they sound "better" then another, would be misleading, as it's my opinion.

Could I here them clearly at 80ft.......yes and about 120ft back. But, I need to stress that time did not permit me to hear these out on the water as the owner was there to pick up his boat. Feedback from his son and his friend, is that yes, they are loud and clear while boarding. I hope to get a real world listen for myself soon, when this boat pulls the upcoming INT here in NC.

Taking into perspective, that they do not come with enclosures, I feel they are priced in line with others of this size range, and not actually a lower-priced budget option, which they are not meant to be. If someone is starting from scratch, then once enclosures are factored in, they are in the same price range as others that come as a complete package. The niche that these can fill is that they can be loaded into a consumer's existing tower cans, replacing the factory or aftermarket coax type in-boat drivers. They can also be packaged with enclosures by the retailer or the consumer fore a complete tower makeover.

Bottom line, I have no reservations recommending these as an option to someone looking for something in this price/size/performance range.
Old    Jeff Stuwe (round2it)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-04-2010, 5:03 PM Reply   
Just got mine today! I will install Saturday and post my review on Monday.
Attached Images
 
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-04-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by round2it View Post
Just got mine today! I will install Saturday and post my review on Monday.
Pics also?
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-04-2010, 6:54 PM Reply   
Mike, You should post pics of the rest of that install. It is SWEET!
Old    Jeff Stuwe (round2it)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-04-2010, 7:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
Pics also?
10-4, pics will be included. I have Ariel cans (twin bullets) that have been on for a season. I also have pair of single bullets that have never been mounted. Unfortunately I have not recieved the 6500's yet. Maybe by thursday????
Old    Shaun Guin (opossum)      Join Date: Jun 2008       05-05-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
Shaun,

Like every hot rod, they have their own unique sound, a signature if you will. There is no way I can say they sound better/worse then brands X and Z. What I can say is that I do feel that these are a serious contender in the 6-7 in HLCD ring. Every one's listening preference is so subjective, that for me to say they sound "better" then another, would be misleading, as it's my opinion.

Could I here them clearly at 80ft.......yes and about 120ft back. But, I need to stress that time did not permit me to hear these out on the water as the owner was there to pick up his boat. Feedback from his son and his friend, is that yes, they are loud and clear while boarding. I hope to get a real world listen for myself soon, when this boat pulls the upcoming INT here in NC.

Taking into perspective, that they do not come with enclosures, I feel they are priced in line with others of this size range, and not actually a lower-priced budget option, which they are not meant to be. If someone is starting from scratch, then once enclosures are factored in, they are in the same price range as others that come as a complete package. The niche that these can fill is that they can be loaded into a consumer's existing tower cans, replacing the factory or aftermarket coax type in-boat drivers. They can also be packaged with enclosures by the retailer or the consumer fore a complete tower makeover.

Bottom line, I have no reservations recommending these as an option to someone looking for something in this price/size/performance range.
Thanks for the unbiased opinion, I'm sure like alot of people all I really want in upgrading my system from 4 mbquart coax to horns is to hear the music clearly while riding.

Also good point about the price, when you brake it down they are definitely not lower priced because they are essentially one set of speakers but after hearing about these I started to do some research and found other brands also had a speaker only “no cans” price But with four existing cans the kicker setup seems a little more economical because you buy one set of speakers that fill all 4 cans, vs buying two sets of speakers to fill four cans. The only problem there is the difference between uping the price for two sets vs sound output of 2 sets vs 1 set with the kickers. Since all I want is to hear the music clearing while riding and not ear bleeding sound these sound like money.
Old    Matt Laird (Matt)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-05-2010, 3:00 PM Reply   
I hope to see some of these on the lake this year... I would love to tie up & compare them to my 485s or even a buddies 3 some...
An installer here in town claims they will outpreform his exiles... I'm anxious to see if its the truth...
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-05-2010, 3:06 PM Reply   
I just had the Kicker rep come by our manufacturing facilities and he talked them up pretty big. He said the sound is unreal out of them. He said that he heard a demo pair.
Old    Wes Ward (mrward77)      Join Date: Sep 2004       05-05-2010, 4:21 PM Reply   
We got these set up on our Demo boat for the Fort Worth Boat Show and the Lake Lewisville boat show. Orgininally we had 3 KMT6s and we replaced 2 of the KMT6s with the KM6500.2.

The Fort Worth Show was indoors and we had nothing but compliments...infact every dealer came by at one point in the show to see what they were hearing.

Our Lake Lewisville show was outdoors. We used our boat to entertain people with music and the Wet Sounds mic to make announcements during the show. We were in a parking lot of a marina over looking all the slips and docks...our music could be heard clearly just about anywere you went.

They are getting a lot of compliments here. If anyone wants to demo them in the DFW area let me know.
thanks,
Wes@tricktowers.com

Last edited by mrward77; 05-05-2010 at 4:23 PM.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-05-2010, 4:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I hope to see some of these on the lake this year... I would love to tie up & compare them to my 485s or even a buddies 3 some...
An installer here in town claims they will outpreform his exiles... I'm anxious to see if its the truth...
Well, I sell/install both Wet Sounds and Exile, and ALL are great products with their own attributes, but expecting the KM6500.2 's to go head to head with a pair of Pro485's or a 3-Some would be like expecting a Mustang GT to run with a Viper. All things being equal, these will hold their own with anything in their size range.
Old    Jeff Stuwe (round2it)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-09-2010, 4:47 PM Reply   
Well here they are!
I set the horns on 6db after tinkering for a few minutes. They are currently powered with a 450.2 and sound EXTREMELY POWERFUL even without the 6500's.
At 300 feet, minimal amount of volume is lost. I am very happy with the results. I still need to make some minor adjustments with the pre-amp but I should get that accomplished within the next few weeks. It's hard to adjust and listen at 100 feet when your alone. I might not even use the 6500's!?!?!?
Attached Images
  
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-09-2010, 5:18 PM Reply   
They look good, howd they fit in the Aerial cans?

Adding the extra set of mids will definitely add to the mid-bass when close in like surfing and chill'n.
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-09-2010, 5:35 PM Reply   
looks good Jeff.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-10-2010, 11:47 AM Reply   
That looks sweet in the Aerial cans.

Phil
Kicker
Old    Jeff Stuwe (round2it)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-10-2010, 3:34 PM Reply   
They fit right into the Aerial Cans without any modifications. Even the screw holes lined up. I am thinking of staying with the 4-pack because the new Aerial cans have different tower mounts and they don't match my existing. On a good note, I have sooooo much sound IN the boat, I usually turn the tower way down while surfing, keep it matched with the interior volume so I can here the comments from the passengers while I'm surfing like.......c'mon old man let's see a 360
I think my set up is close to being done. I would like for someone with some influence hear the system to see if anything might need to be added. any takers??
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-10-2010, 4:38 PM Reply   
Got the set of mids last week.. still waiting on the 6500.2 tho... Really wanting these going by memorial day...
Old    Shane Lafferty (pickle311)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-11-2010, 11:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
Well, I sell/install both Wet Sounds and Exile, and ALL are great products with their own attributes, but expecting the KM6500.2 's to go head to head with a pair of Pro485's or a 3-Some would be like expecting a Mustang GT to run with a Viper. All things being equal, these will hold their own with anything in their size range.

That's confusing, which one would be the Mustang and which is the Viper in this scenario? I'm assuming that you are referring to Kicker as a somewhat inferrior product compared to the Wetsounds and Exile systems. What is this based on? Remember that Kicker is the Ford of the audio industry and have won more titles than anyone else in the industry. To say Kicker knows their crap would be an understatement. I can assure you that none of the previous companies making HLCD tower speakers has the engineering staff, experience, and resources that Kicker does. If anything, they are seriously threatend by Kicker entering the market because they know that a top notch product has just been released and will drive the price down on all of these over priced setups. I fully anticipate that I will have a set of these hanging off my tower when I break down and put a system in my boat, and I have been down the Wetsounds road before too.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-11-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
Shane,

Sorry for the confusion, I will try and clear it up. First off, I have been a huge fan of Kicker for years, it was actually their customer service that made me decide to be a Kicker dealer/installer. Keep in mind, I chose them, they didnt come to me. No one is a bigger fan of Kicker then I am. When I got wind that a new tower system was in the works, I bugged Phil weekly for info, till he was able to give me some specs. Then I hounded him till I was able to get a set in my hands

My post had absolutely nothing to do with comparing quality of brand X to brand Y, as we are talking the cream of the crop IMO any way. It was about shear performance (volume) output. I feel my statements were fair, impartial, and in no way disrespectful to Kicker. So lets break it down. A 3-Some and a pair of Pro 485's consist of basically four 8" drivers and two or three horns, depending on which setup you go with. The KM6500.2 is a pair of 6.5 mids and a pair of horns and the option to add on a 2nd pair of mids. I dont think anyone would argue that it would be a tough row to hoe for a pair or two of 6.5" drivers to stand head to head with four 8" drivers. It would not be accurate to say that the above mentioned comparison by Matt, between his Pro485s and his buddy's 3-Some is a fair, apples to apples comparison.

I hope this clears it up and my apologies to any that took it the wrong way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickle311 View Post
That's confusing, which one would be the Mustang and which is the Viper in this scenario? I'm assuming that you are referring to Kicker as a somewhat inferrior product compared to the Wetsounds and Exile systems. What is this based on? Remember that Kicker is the Ford of the audio industry and have won more titles than anyone else in the industry. To say Kicker knows their crap would be an understatement. I can assure you that none of the previous companies making HLCD tower speakers has the engineering staff, experience, and resources that Kicker does. If anything, they are seriously threatend by Kicker entering the market because they know that a top notch product has just been released and will drive the price down on all of these over priced setups. I fully anticipate that I will have a set of these hanging off my tower when I break down and put a system in my boat, and I have been down the Wetsounds road before too.
Old    Shane Lafferty (pickle311)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-12-2010, 9:27 AM Reply   
No worries, I just wasn't clear on your comparrison. I agree that the Kicker system compared to a pair of 485s is not a fair comparrison. More surface area will win almost every time assuming that it's all installed correctly. Now that's clear, I do agree with your inital statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
Shane,

Sorry for the confusion, I will try and clear it up. First off, I have been a huge fan of Kicker for years, it was actually their customer service that made me decide to be a Kicker dealer/installer. Keep in mind, I chose them, they didnt come to me. No one is a bigger fan of Kicker then I am. When I got wind that a new tower system was in the works, I bugged Phil weekly for info, till he was able to give me some specs. Then I hounded him till I was able to get a set in my hands

My post had absolutely nothing to do with comparing quality of brand X to brand Y, as we are talking the cream of the crop IMO any way. It was about shear performance (volume) output. I feel my statements were fair, impartial, and in no way disrespectful to Kicker. So lets break it down. A 3-Some and a pair of Pro 485's consist of basically four 8" drivers and two or three horns, depending on which setup you go with. The KM6500.2 is a pair of 6.5 mids and a pair of horns and the option to add on a 2nd pair of mids. I dont think anyone would argue that it would be a tough row to hoe for a pair or two of 6.5" drivers to stand head to head with four 8" drivers. It would not be accurate to say that the above mentioned comparison by Matt, between his Pro485s and his buddy's 3-Some is a fair, apples to apples comparison.

I hope this clears it up and my apologies to any that took it the wrong way.
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-17-2010, 9:56 AM Reply   
Well finally got word that the 6500.2's are on back order...I was really looking forward to trying them out on memorial day weekend...
Old    Darin Lemos (me_ski)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-30-2010, 9:30 PM Reply   
I'm interested in comments from people that have heard the 6.5" HLCD Hollowpoint and the KM6500.2. I've got the original 6.5" bullet cans, a coxaxial pair and a component pair and only hear muffled sound at 80'. I don't need blasting sound but I want clear sound at 80' , ideally like a comfortable listening level I'd get in the boat. I'm looking to upgrade the speakers and I'm wondering whether to go with the 6.5" HLCD Hollowpoint or the KM6500.2 and how they compare, with the hollowpoint in the coaxial cans paired with the existing component pair (I've heard the component cans can't handle the HLCD wieght). I'd run them at their rated RMS.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-01-2010, 6:59 AM Reply   
Darin-

The KM6500.2's are in stock now, but we have been shipping them very recently, so I doubt many have a good feel for comparison. There are a few people who are running the KM6500.2's now; hopefully they can chime in with their insight.

Weight is not as much an issue with the KM6500.2's as Kicker uses a neodymium motor for the midrange which has a bonus benefit of saving weight. The horn and its driver mount in a separate can, so with the KM6500.2's each can has a lot less load to carry.

If you are truly running traditional coaxial speakers, you will notice that ANY HLCD tower speaker system on the market will do a better job of getting sound out to the rider.

Ultimately, it is your ears you are trying to please, so you owe it to yourself to listen to as many examples of HLCD tower systems as you can, so that you are comfortable and happy with your decision.... Where are you? I might be of some assistance getting you in touch with someone who is running the KM6500.2 system.

Phil
Kicker
Old    Darin Lemos (me_ski)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-01-2010, 9:01 AM Reply   
Hi Phil,

I live in Vallejo, CA and work in San Francisco. I hope someone that has heard them while wakeboarding while 80' back and engine roaring can let me know their impression.

You replied to a post of mine on the MalibuCrew site regarding how to set up my amp for the KM6500.2. I have the 100x4 RMS @ 4ohm amp, bridgeable to 400x2 @ 4ohm. On that topic, you recommended that if I use that amp that I stay with the 100x4 setting and put each speaker on its own channel. I'm concerned that setup won't provide enough sound since I'll only be providing half the available power the speakers can handle and if each speaker is wired separately versus the normal parallel setup for these speakers that the actual ohm load will be 8 ohm each and further reduce the power going to the speakers (I'm not sure how ohms are calculated but I've read that if you have two 4ohm speakers and wire them parallel you have a 2 ohm load and if you wire two 4 ohm in series you have a 8 ohm load). I've also read you can set the gain using a digital multi-meter to read the voltage. I would think the best set up would be to bridge my amp but cut the gain to limit the power to the speakers. Using the formula where the voltage is the square root of the product of watts multiplied by ohms then with the standard parallel wiring for a 4 ohm load tand wanting to provide the 200 watts speaker capacity I would want 28.28427 volts. Of course, I may be interpreting what I've read wrong and hope you or someone else can let me know the correct set up. If someone knows all these calculations they may also clear up how the math works on the amp as I would have thought 100x4@4ohm would be 200x2@4ohm bridged. My manual shows RMS power of 100x4@4ohm, MAX power of 200x4@2ohm, and just says Bridge Mono power of 400x2@4ohm so mabye thats the Max bridged and the RMS bridged would be 200x2@4ohm.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-01-2010, 9:36 AM Reply   
Darin-

Hmmm... Which bucrew post?

For everyone reading many of you know I recommend not running full range amps at 2-ohms, due to the fact that most full range speakers have an impedance lower than 4-ohms. Most full range coaxes in real world use are 3.4 - 3.6 ohms. When paralleled, you end up witha 1.7 - 1.8 ohm load, which is really too low. Similarly when we bridge an amp into a full range speaker, you end up with each channel seeing that too-low impedance, per amp channel.

Notice, I say FULL RANGE in my thoughts above... Woofers are much better at not having reactive loads and coils that are short. As a result, you will routinely read where I recommend using an amp at 2-ohms when running subs; the load does not dip below 2. Same thing with bridging a stereo amp into a 4-ohm woofer... The amp channels do not see an impedance below 2-ohms.

I "break ranks" with my "one4-ohm full range speaker per amp channel, and no bridging" mantra when talking about the KM6500.2. We designed that speaker system from-the-get-go to be a true 4-ohm load, no 3.6-ohms, no reactive crossover loads, no impedance dips HLCD loudspeaker system..... The very reason we did this was so that a consumer could wire up a set of KM6500.2's to a good 150 - 200 watts at 4-ohms stereo amplifier, and then not have to swap to a different amp if they decided to add the extra KM6500 mids to build the "six-pack system" like is on the Trodgon Malibu...

The KM6500.2 is a true 4-ohm system, and as such, it will run okay on a bridged 4-channel amp, assuming you never intend to add the extra KM6500 mids.... In fact, I am getting ready to install a KM6500.2 set on my Stingray sport-cuddy boat, and I am going to run it with the new Kicker IX500.4 Class D full range amp in bridge mode......

Understand a KM6500.2 mid, tied in parallel with a KM6500.2 horn is still 4-ohms.... The crossover divides the load so that the amp sees only 4-ohms and no less. above crossover frequency, the mid's crossover takes its impedance up towards infinity, and below the crossover frequency, the horn driver's crossover takes its impedance to infinity... I have no problem with a basic Km6500.2 setup, (2 mids, 2 horns 4 cans) runnig on a bridged amplifier like you have.

If I recommended going the 4-channel route, it was probably due to my thinking you were considering going the 6-pack route, (4 mids, 2 horns, 6 cans). Does that ring a bell? Otherwise, send me a link to the bucrew post, and I will double-check things....

Phil
Kicker
Attached Images
   

Last edited by philwsailz; 07-01-2010 at 9:42 AM.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-01-2010, 9:40 AM Reply   
I am checking to see if anyone near you or between San Fran and Vallejo has a set for you to go listen to....

Stay tuned...

Phil
Kicker
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-01-2010, 10:02 AM Reply   
Okay, I found the post.....

Darin, if we are to believe the manufacturer specs for your amp, the claim is that it will deliver 400 watts to EACH SIDE in 4-ohms in bridge mode...

If it is 100w RMS X 4 @ 4-ohms, it is possible to have each channel run at 200 watts at 2-ohms, and then bridged you add the two channels together for 400 watts per side. The straight math works, but it is a bit much, if just barely for the KM6500.2's. It will run, but 400 watts per side is way outside what we recommend for the KM6500.2.

You can use the volt-meter approach if you like, but you have to be careful. Even when I was an acoustical engineer years ago, we had to be very careful to measure both DCR, and also sweep for impedance to get a representative value for "R" in the math, otherwise, your desired value for V willl be off. What program material are you going to measure voltage with? If you use music, you will no doubt either pick a song that is too loud, too quiet, too something... and the voltage you meaure with that program material will be different from the next song you play. Do you have a good AC meter that can get a voltage RMS average of a sine function? You need a darned good AC meter to get an accurate measurement, and a meter that only measures DC will not help you. Finally, even with calibrated program material like I have often used for power testing, the best accuracy you are going to read for voltage out of an amp will be within a few volts. You do not get a nice pretty steady number with 4 trailing digits behind the decimal point...

My ponit in sharing all of that is that trying to meaure to set gains is a real pain. Plus, most speakers will handle a little more, as long as it is clean power, which makes the whole exercise seem a little obsessive....

As I mentioned in the post above, the mid and the horn are both 4-ohms..... When you connect a mid to one channel of your 4-channel amp, you will deliver 100 watts to it. Similarly, the horn is 4-ohms.... You will deliver 100 watts to it.... So, per my recomendation on bucrew, wiring the mids on half of the amp and the tweeters on the other half will still net you right at roughly 400 watts total, or 200 watts per side, which is a good comfy operating range for the KM6500.2.

I hope that sheds light on my recommendations why, for your setup, assuming you want to use that amp you already have, that it will be good to go with the mids on half of the amp and the horns on the other half.

Let me know!

Phil
Kicker
Old    Darin Lemos (me_ski)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-01-2010, 10:06 PM Reply   
Phil,

Thanks for taking the time to explain things to me. It sounds like getting the bridged 400w turned down to 200w via the gain and a multimeter might be trickier than I thought.I still am a little confused about whether I'd be providing enough power with my amp at 100w per speaker to get clear sound at 80' with the engine roaring. It seems that each component of the KM6500.2 handles 200w and I'd only be providing half the power.
Old    Derek Merchant (bamaman2112)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-02-2010, 5:13 PM Reply   
I finally got the KM6500.2 and the Km6500 installed... and i gotta say they scream. They are crystal clear at 100 plus. I will hopefully get pictures up after the weekend. Thanks again Phil for all your help.
Old    mojo            07-03-2010, 10:29 AM Reply   
pretty sure bullet lines stole their speaker design. i wouldn't give them your $
Old    David Eggen (dave23)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-03-2010, 1:54 PM Reply   
Do these fit in Monster Tower cans?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-03-2010, 2:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave23 View Post
Do these fit in Monster Tower cans?
I'm 99% sure they will, but may need to enlarge the cutout a little though. The required cutout is listed in the KM6500.2 lit i believe. If not, I'll just pull one out of the box an measure
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-06-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   
David-

The KM6500 fits into a Monster Tower can without modification just fine. Even the screw holes line up just right.

Phil
Kicker
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-12-2010, 9:16 AM Reply   
I know some guys have been curious about customizing the KM6500.2 grills. I finished the install that I shared above, and decided that I would see what the grills looked like in black. Here are a few pics. Sorry for the quality of the pics, I took these from my phone, but they give you an idea of what can happen if you want to change grill color or try to match your boat gel coat.

Phil
Kicker
Attached Images
   
Old    Ed Teasdale (Rotti1)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-30-2013, 5:11 PM Reply   
How do I hook up the kicker 650.4 amp to the km6500.2 and the km6500 I am not too clear on it is there adiagram some where

Sorry I missed this; I was out of the office Friday, I was with my Dad, who had surgery... He is doing well by the way...

The hot setup if you are going to add the Km6500's to the Km6500.2s will be a pair of ZX300.1 monoblocks, witha KX2 crossover. The ZX300.1 is marketed as a subwoofer amp, but it is a very nice full range class A/B monoblock amplifier.

What you will do is come from the head unit or any EQ you might be using, and hit the KX2 crossover. Use the hi-pass output of the crossover, (set to 80- 100 Hz or so) and take the left signal to one of the amps, and the right signal to the other. Use y-cords at the amp to deliver the RCA signal into both inputs of the amp. Wire up half the KM6500.2 and one of the mids from the KM6500 to each amp. Put another way, wire two mids and one horn to each 300.1. That will provide a 2-ohm load and you will get a full 300 watts out of each amp, for a 600 watt tower system.


The 650.4 will be a good choice too, and you will not need the crossover, but you will get a tiny bit less power. Comparing the two options, going withn the 650.4 will be a tiny bit cheaper, but not much. If you go with the 650.4 you will use half the amp, ( AMP1) to drive the KM6500.2's and use the other half, (AMP2) to drive the KM6500's. In this configuration you will show a 4-ohm load to each of the four amp channels and you will deliver roughly 120 watts from each amp channnel for a tower system approaching 500 watts total power. So you know, you CANNOT operate the 650.4 in bridge mode for the total tower speaker setup; the impedance is too low. With the 650.4 wired this way the amp will run pretty cool, and the 4-ohm load per channel will be an easy load to drive! As you can see, you get slightly less power when compared witha pair of the 300.1's but at this level, you might find you cannot hear a volume difference.

Finally, we designed the total system to run efficiently and stable on a stereo amplifier.... From the beginning, there was a mandate that the KM6500.2 and the accessory KM6500 mids be NO LOWER than 4-ohms; they are not that very common 3.2 - 3.6 ohm that is so common with coax speakers these days. Our goal was to be able to allow an average consumer to buy the KM6500.2's and put them on a proper stereo amp delivering 150 - 200 watts RMS power at a 4-ohm load, and then be able to add the KM6500 accessory mids later, WITHOUT having to go buy a new amp!
IN THIS INSTANCE, since we designed it this way from the beginning, I will also recommend the ZXM450.2 as a suitable amplifier for the total 6-can tower setup, (I know, this is a departure from my general mantra of only showing any amp channel a 4-ohm load). This will load the amp down to 2-ohms on both channels, delivering 225 watts per side. You will wire 2 mids and one horn to each amp channel. This is the least expensive of all the options, but still a solid option performance-wise.




SO in summary:

2 ZX300.1 monoblocks, ( plus the KX2 crossover) = 600 watts RMS total system power, 6 cans
1 ZX650.4 4-vchannel amp = 480 - 500 watts RMS total system power, 6 cans
1 ZXM450.2 stereo amp = 450 watts RMS total system power, 6 cans

Any questions, fire back; I am here today....

Phil
Kicker[/QUOTE]
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-01-2013, 10:08 AM Reply   
The suggestion for the 300.1 pairs is old. We have gone digital, and we have learned we can put a LOT more power into these things.

THE 4-CAN HOT TICKET as of Summer 2013
For a set of KM6500.2 only, (4 cans) use the KXM400.4 in bridge mode. Wire a horn and a mid on AMP1 bridged. Wire the other horn and mid on AMP2. Use RCA y-cords to hit both inputs, (left and right) on AMP1 from the LEFT rca cable. Use another Y-cord to hit both inputs, (again left and right) on AMP2 from the RIGHT rca cable. This will net you 200 watts to each side for 400 watts total tower power.

THE 6-PACK HOT TICKET as of Summer 2013
For a 6-pack consisting of a KM6500.2 HLCD set, WITH the extra KM6500 mids, the hot ticket is to power it with TWO KXM400.4 amplifers both in bridge mode. Wire the KM6500.2 component set, (horns and mids) exactly as described above. Then ADD the second KXM400.4 and wire one mid each to the second amp in bridge mode. USe RCA Y-cables to make sure all four amp inputs are being driven from the head unit. On the horns, be sure to move the jumper on the back of the horn crossovers from 0 to +6dB so the horns can keep up with the four mids. This dual amp setup will get you 800 watts of tower power.

THE 6-PACK BASIC SYSTEM as of Summer 2013
Use a KXM400.2 amplifer. WIth the KM6500.2 and the KM6500 6-pack you will wire two mids and one horn together to show the amp a two-ohm load. Do this for both sides. The left amp output will then drive two mids and one horn, (again, move the horn's crossover jumper tothe +6 dB position). Same thing for the right output, just wire the two mids and one horn all together in parallel. This show a two-ohm load on each amp channel and you will have a 400 watt 6-pack tower system.

As with all tower systems, make sure to turn the hi-pass crossover on and set the hi pass frequency, (Hz) appropriately. NO BASS BOOST!!!

Hope this helps and brings current knowledge up to date!

Phil
Kicker

Last edited by philwsailz; 07-01-2013 at 10:12 AM.
Old    Ed Teasdale (Rotti1)      Join Date: Jun 2013       07-02-2013, 8:18 PM Reply   
Wow thats awesome. I have the 6500.2 now and they sound very loud and clear with a kicker 350.4 amp. Just ordered the 6500 mids with a kicker 550.2 amp Which I hope now that I will hear a loud improvement after reading this post I wish I would have read this about an hour ago I would have maybe changed my amp selection.

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