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Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       12-30-2015, 7:52 PM Reply   
Hi all-

After being out of the market since '05, I am now Horrified at the ungodly high-cost of V-drive boats. My last boat was pre-kid and was a 01' Supra Sunsport V. We have worked hard in Life and now live on a lake. It only makes sense to buy a fun family boat to enjoy watersports with.

AND.... A $120,000 disco boat is NOT Part of that Equation.

But neither is a cheapo runabout with a tower either.

I want a nice boat that I can surf, wakeboard, and do general kid drowning with.

My quest has brought me to 3 boats that are all at the top of my budget:

1. 2015 Sanger V215 (used with 30hrs, 325HP and $8,000 stereo) $50k
2. 2016 Sanger V215 (new with Raptor 400HP engine add hydraulic wake system) $55K
3. 2015 Moomba Mobius LSV (new with 400HP Raptor engine, Manual Surf tab System) $50k.

There tons of other used offerings, but most are 2008 or older and in the High 30's. Doesn't make much sense to me when I take the wrapper off the seat for 50k? I don't know much about Sanger, or if I would be better with the Moomba (2015 is the last year of the LSV)

I would love to hear thoughts and impressions before I buy!!!


Thank you!
Old    Tom N (SangerTom)      Join Date: Aug 2010       12-30-2015, 10:06 PM Reply   
I'm on my 2nd sanger. 1st was a 2005 V210. Really enjoyed it. Got a 2015 V215 this year. Great boat and I think its tremendous value - as you can see. Fit-n-finish is high quality, runs great. We surf, so I upgraded the hard tanks to (2) 900 lb sacs - one in each rear locker. Pretty good wake - good height - good push]. (I'm sure some of the other makes have better wakes than the Sanger). If we have a lot of people on board its good surfing. If its just me and a couple of people we still are putting 400 to 700 lb sac on the seat. Sweet spot isn't as far back as other boats seem to be (mainly looking at videos on here).

Overall - for the money you get a really good quality boat that you can surf and wakeboard behind and have a ton of fun.

Pricing - I paid about $54 ish pre-tax for the 15.
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       12-30-2015, 10:14 PM Reply   
What engine do you have Tom?
Old    Tom N (SangerTom)      Join Date: Aug 2010       12-30-2015, 10:24 PM Reply   
The Indmar
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-31-2015, 6:12 AM Reply   
Just FYI the raptor 400 is not 400hp, it is 400 lbft of torque. Indmar doesn't rate the HP on the Raptor engines. Based on the CARB testing, the raptor 400 is 350hp. The raptor 440 is closer to 400hp. (390ish IIRC)
Old    RM (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       12-31-2015, 9:34 AM Reply   
I can't help you compare the Moomba to the Sanger but I'll put a shameless plug in for the V215. I just bought my 2005 V215 this summer. I had a Sanger DLX20 in the past and was impressed with that. I did a fair amount of research and looked at a lot of different boats. I loved the diversity of the 215 and the seating set up was nicer than most boats its size. I like the padded bar behind the drivers seats for observers and built in ice chest. I never had problems with my old sanger DLX and so far no issues with this 215. I cant really compare the wake to many other boats but I agree with Tom that some of these bigger newer high dollar boats probably put out much bigger wakes. I'm a pure recreationalist so I don't need a pro size wake. We were surfing with it this summer even with the stock ballast it made a descent wave. I'm doing the same mod that Tom mentioned for ballast except I just bought the 1100lb bags for each corner. I almost bought a brand new 2015 but I found more value in a 2005 since the 215 hasn't changed other than flashy bits. I bought my 2005 with 97 hours on it, garage kept and one owner and I paid 26k. It looks new so I figured for half the price it was a better deal. I don't know that I would really care about a bigger motor in this boat. I just have the 315hp 5.7 and its perfectly fine for power. I will definitely do a prop change after changing the ballast but my .02 cents worth would be big motors in this boat is pissing dollars away (in intial cost and fuel). I'm sure everyone's acceptable levels of performance are different
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       12-31-2015, 10:09 AM Reply   
Thank you for the clarification on the engines Fixable.

RPM- Are you satisfied with the suitability of your boat?


In the Seattle area (at least back in the day) Sanger and Supreme were always "me too" boats in comparison with the others. That may be the same today with the exception that everyone's game seems to have really stepped up with technology advances. Obviously the Malibu's',MC's are at the Pinnacle, however, it doesn't make sense to buy something like that for us.
I will have an inattentive wife that will go into full retard mode at the launch who will for the of her not be able to back a truck up 5 feet and then just stop. She will lose boat bumpers, and have a clueless look on her face as we approach our dock with line in hand. Meanwhile, my daughter will be jumping around the boat like a yard ape spilling god knows what, whining, and making everything dirty in between me hollering and snapping at her. - Hence the only thing that will be "extreme" will be our crazy and NOT our performance (or lack there of,) behind the boat. -Since I have not read a bad word about Sanger this leaves me with good feeling about this boat for a price point purchase.

Albeit, I am still a bit confused as to the performance of the Moomba in comparison. There must be a reason they stopped making the LSV, and its probably the lack of a good Surf Wake. I just wonder if that matters?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-31-2015, 10:51 AM Reply   
If you are in Seattle you should give NW Boat Sports a call down here in Portland. Last time I looked they had some smoking deals on new Sangers. You could get a new Sanger 237 for under 60k and a new 215 for not much over 50k . If you call ask for Pat or Brian they are great guys and always go the extra mile for their customers.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       12-31-2015, 11:01 AM Reply   
got a v230 that we absolutely love. fit and finish should be head and shoulders above a moomba although, I've only been on one and it was a 2006-2008 vintage.
also put 1100 in the corners of ours. puts our ballast at close to 3000 lbs - all hidden.

Can't go wrong with Sanger. will hold its value better as well.

I wouldn't hesitate to run that 2015 with 325 hp engine, propped right (ACME 911) it should pull like mule
Old    RM (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       12-31-2015, 11:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by flienlow View Post

RPM- Are you satisfied with the suitability of your boat?
I am very impressed by the V215. I would easily buy this boat again no doubt about it. I don't have much to compare it to so maybe I am just easily impressed. I feel it lives up to being a very diverse boat. Its roomy enough for quite a few people, fits in my garage (albeit some disassembly required), handling is incredible, the wake works well for us beginners but can get pretty good sized with the ballast filled, surfs good but I haven't really tapped into its potential until I do its ballast upgrade this winter. While I haven't tried it yet I also liked reading that this boat is still accommodating to waterskiing. I would say this boat handles choppy water rather well. Diversity was a key factor to me and I think the boat lives up to that. There are plenty of boats that I am sure do better in some of these areas but I think the 215 does a pretty good job across the board and its price tag makes this boat even better.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       12-31-2015, 11:47 AM Reply   
my .02 and keep in mind I'm slightly biased as a skiers boat was my original purchase in '07 and am still pretty active on their forums.

when I bought my '06 in '07(granted it was a supra 20ssv but not much difference at that time in moomba and supra), comparing to my good friends '05 sanger was night and day. the sanger fit/finish and overall quality, especially in the upholstery, was just not there.
boats have come a long way since then..
was fortunate enough to surf the 237 at the '12 polar bear and when comparing it to all the other boats, including the mojo that was only there friday night and not really part of the challenge(sometimes it's who you know), the sanger didn't impress in fit/finish and that example was pretty noisy with some floor rattling. iirc, excluding pavati, it was not one of the better rated boats at the event. Supreme offered a better boat for around the same coin.
I have 3 friends now that have mojo/lsv/mondo all in the last 2 years and if it was my coin, the moomba would be a no brainer between those 2. walked around several sangers at the milwaukee boat show the last 2 years and doesn't look like much has changed in overall build since the '12 I was on. even paint/graphics were the same basic red/black design.

lsv is the same hull for the last several years. they added a larger topdeck a few years ago, but running surface is basically the same. it was disco'ed to add the craz. mondo is sub21ft, craz is 22ft and mojo is 23ft. keep that in mind as you look at the lsv. it is an old hull design but does surf. it was a solid hull that did most activities well.

I will say that if I was shopping for a new or couple year old used boat today and since surf is all I do, I would be shopping supreme and mb in the pricepoint you look to be in, not sanger or moomba.
with kids in the mix tho, I would think the more important question is which boat offers the cleanest wakeboard speed at 18mph for teaching.
Old    C (mcdye)      Join Date: Apr 2009       12-31-2015, 12:16 PM Reply   
I cant speak for a Sanger and don't want to sound too basis. I have had a 4 Skiers Choice boat due to upgrading each time and have no complaints. I have been to their plant in the TN twice, it is very impressive. SC makes the Supra and Moomba line and totally stand behind their products.. As mentioned above the LSV is out but had a great run with the same hull for several years and has been replaced by the Craz. The '15 Mojo and Craz are boats without the bling bling, but provide great surf and wakeboarding wave when ballasted properly. The Mojo hull is based on the Supra SA hull and the Craz hull is based on the SC hull. I would highly recommend you test drive them fully loaded. I currently have a '14 Mojo surf and if I was to replace it now, I would probably go with the Craz.
Old    Brian Garrett (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-31-2015, 12:45 PM Reply   
I agree that there may be better boats in that price category. I can speak from experience that the Moomba will do what you want. The LSV was the first boat I owned, then moved onto an XStar. After going to a top tier boat...it is hard for me to go back to budget boats as the interior fit and finish don't stack up. But the Moomba is a decent boat for that price point. I personally have never been too impressed with anything from Sanger. If it could be an option for you, then I would also definitely throw a barely used Axis A22 into the mix. IMO, from everything in your price point, and with keeping it fairly new, the Axis A22 will have the best wake/wave set up for that money. The only thing that I would prefer about the Moomba is that it does seem to have a little deeper cabin space which is nice when you have kids. But the Axis has about the best wake/wave available for a budget boat. And yes, it is sad that $50k is now considered a "budget" boat!!
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-31-2015, 12:54 PM Reply   
Sandman i was at the polar bear that year and the Sanger wave was one of my favorite waves and would take it over a moomba all day. You will be hard pressed to find a supreme for that price. We have a loaded 14 226 for sale and it is listed for more than the sangers.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-31-2015, 12:59 PM Reply   
I'm sure im going to ruffle some feathers but the Axis build quality is not as good as sanger. I watched a guy drop his T 22 off the trailer on the ramp and was amazed buy how little structure is in the boat it broke apart.and looked like cheep plastic.
Old    Penguin (Tolleson2354)      Join Date: Jun 2015       12-31-2015, 1:19 PM Reply   
I don't think you will go wrong either way. We have a 2011 V215 and wouldn't trade it for the world. We ski, board, surf and just plain ole float around and it does all of these well. I can talk it up all day but long story short, you will love a Sanger! Its wakes and waves are very friendly to all talent levels, it has plenty of space, plenty of power, and plenty of good looks to keep everybody happy. Another strong point is its size and simplicity, your "inattentive" wife wont be overwhelmed by touch screens and an 18 wheeler sized boat whenever she is behind the wheel.
Old    RM (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       12-31-2015, 1:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
I'm sure im going to ruffle some feathers but the Axis build quality is not as good as sanger. I watched a guy drop his T 22 off the trailer on the ramp and was amazed buy how little structure is in the boat it broke apart.and looked like cheep plastic.
I would agree with this statement 100%. I was shopping new boats this summer thinking I may buy new and the Axis was at the top of my list. When I finally went to the dealer to look at them I was mind boggled at how cheap those boats were. Every corner cutting they could do and then some. By far the worst interior of any boat I looked at.
Old    Craig (86skier)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-31-2015, 4:41 PM Reply   
A buddy of mine was just in town and asked me about my boat (2007 Sanger V-215). He said is it time for a replacement boat? I said HELL NO. Boats are stupid expensive now. I paid 32k for my boat. it's now worth 37k to 39k. this is due to the number of overpriced boats. Hah but not for sale. Most Sanger owners don't buy new boat but every 10 years or so because the quality is so high. Sanger has never made a "Value boat" just boats at a good value. Nothing against Supra, but Sanger hands down..
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-01-2016, 11:55 AM Reply   
Did you give NW Boat Sports a call yet and check what they can do for you?? Boat show is in two weeks down here in Portland. You should come down and look at what they have and talk to them. Best deals always happen at boat show time with most manufacturers offering some sort of incentives. Our experience with NW Boat Sports has been nothing short of stellar. I would change boat brand's before I changed dealer's.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-01-2016, 1:03 PM Reply   
It's been a while since I looked at all the different boats but when testing before buying my 215 we looked at the Supra and Moomba. 200 feet and one wake crossing into the Moomba test drive my wife had decided the seats were no where near the Supras in quality and it was out. We chose the 215 as first choice ahead of Mailibu because of its handling and rough water capability. There was not aa better boat built, for my purpose. I have no intention of selling mine until something much better comes out. Has not happened yet. Three kids and a wife who is not perfect with mechanical things or smart phones all love it.

I'd pick the second Sanger if I were you but I would strongly recommend you test drive first.
Old    Danny Pacini (dp513)      Join Date: Jul 2011       01-01-2016, 8:06 PM Reply   
I have a really nice 08 215 i will sell you for low 30s! already completely set up and dialed for surfing/boarding
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-01-2016, 11:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Did you give NW Boat Sports a call yet and check what they can do for you?? Boat show is in two weeks down here in Portland. You should come down and look at what they have and talk to them. Best deals always happen at boat show time with most manufacturers offering some sort of incentives. Our experience with NW Boat Sports has been nothing short of stellar. I would change boat brand's before I changed dealer's.
Yes Sir. i have been talking to several dealers too. These are good guys and really want to sell me a boat!
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-02-2016, 9:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Sandman i was at the polar bear that year and the Sanger wave was one of my favorite waves and would take it over a moomba all day. You will be hard pressed to find a supreme for that price. We have a loaded 14 226 for sale and it is listed for more than the sangers.
we rode together
I will agree that the sanger wave was not bad, but you were not in the parking lot at 7pm helping Scott(and his dog) unload 1500lbs of lead to make it. 30 bricks at 50lbs each. he didn't mention the lead during the day nor is it listed in the boat specs on roberts page/review. not enough room for bags to get that wave. Look at the pics of that event and see how close to being underwater that rear end was. remember taking the water over the back each time we stopped. the interior didn't have a good fit/finish compared to some of the other boats there. tower had a lot of flex and rattled. that goofy hump that was in the middle of the rear seat on the floor was hard to load up a boat of people around.
worst was how hard it was to get back up on the platform with that silly overhang on the back transom that provided a seat.

anyway, my .02 shop around. other manufacturers offering better value for the boating $$ than sanger.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-02-2016, 9:47 AM Reply   
Yep was aware of the lead. The overhang seat is an option. I did another demo of the Sanger with NW Boat Sports and the way they set it up it was awesome. If you get the NW Boat Sports package it comes with custom sacks .The polar bear boat was overloaded and under proped. With the Sanger surf system and custom bags it was a completely different boat then what we got at the polar bear. There is more to buying a boat then just price. Dealer support is priceless and NW Boat Sports is awesome. The piece of mind having a warranty and knowing your dealer will make sure you are happy and go the extra mile for you is priceless.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-02-2016, 10:05 AM Reply   
Now for the shameless plug NW Boat Sports has our 14 V226 for sale and its loaded and then some with another year of warranty left on it..Asking price is above the OP'S stated budget though at 64k we plan to order the 238 at boat show. If you can stretch your budget it is worth a look. It just needs a new owner and a tank full of gas
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Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-04-2016, 12:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Now for the shameless plug NW Boat Sports has our 14 V226 for sale and its loaded and then some with another year of warranty left on it..Asking price is above the OP'S stated budget though at 64k we plan to order the 238 at boat show. If you can stretch your budget it is worth a look. It just needs a new owner and a tank full of gas
Sadly -64k is beyond the war chest we have for 4months of summer fun. By the time I get Raped by our state, we are looking around 70k. Simply beyond the scope of what we are trying to do.

Speaking of which.Does anyone have any good boat financing suggestions?

Thanks!
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-04-2016, 1:53 PM Reply   
We used our credit union United advantage. Qualified for the best rate out there then took the offer to them and they beat it by a point.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-04-2016, 5:07 PM Reply   
credit union here locally has 1.9% on any car/boat 2011 or newer

have not found anyone yet that has seen a better rate.
not sure if they deal with out of staters but capital credit union in Brown county wisconsin.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-04-2016, 5:09 PM Reply   
Credit Unions are the way to go.
Old     (Lemonade)      Join Date: May 2015       01-05-2016, 10:04 AM Reply   
I have a Canadian boat that might suit you (though its a 2010 v210). Exchange rate might make it worth your while.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-05-2016, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm01 View Post
other manufacturers offering better value for the boating $$ than sanger.
who???
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-05-2016, 10:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by flienlow View Post

Speaking of which.Does anyone have any good boat financing suggestions?

Thanks!
A+ Fed Credit union did mine and our tow vehicle.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       01-05-2016, 12:17 PM Reply   
FWIW the Moomba would probably feel like more boat (probably more interior room, more storage, way more freeboard).

I think build quality is very similar between the two but honestly Sanger has sucked (lately) at being at the forefront of the wake scene and Moomba has been doing quite a lot...
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-09-2016, 7:39 PM Reply   
Something followed me home.
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Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-09-2016, 7:41 PM Reply   
Nice work. Did you demo both? What was the deciding factor?
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-09-2016, 8:41 PM Reply   
We took the Moomba out today for a test. It was a nice boat for a nice price with close dealer support. In the end, we just want to have fun at a reasonable price. Past experience with skiers choice products has always been good, so I just went with what i knew. I also didn't want to drive the extra hours just to test the other boat.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-10-2016, 8:37 AM Reply   
congrats on the new purchase. looks like a nice color combo.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-10-2016, 9:58 PM Reply   
I glad you liked the test drive. It's more important what you feel than what we all say. Congratulations.

BTW, it looks like you live in Australia.
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-10-2016, 10:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyart View Post
I glad you liked the test drive. It's more important what you feel than what we all say. Congratulations.

BTW, it looks like you live in Australia.
It also looks like I have a new MacBook pro and I rotated the damn picture I don't know how many times and it still comes upside down.
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-10-2016, 11:16 PM Reply   
Better.
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Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       01-11-2016, 8:52 AM Reply   
Congrats. That is a beauty!
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       01-11-2016, 9:24 AM Reply   
Nice! Try to get some pics on the water for us. (especially for those of us stuck in the dead of winter...)
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-11-2016, 11:25 AM Reply   
nice rig!! bet you can't wait for summer! Ordered wet or drysuits yet???
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-11-2016, 12:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
nice rig!! bet you can't wait for summer! Ordered wet or drysuits yet???
Not yet, I am still learning to walk right from the hammering I just took. I need to start saving my pennies again.
Old    C W (CFD3Captain)      Join Date: May 2015       01-11-2016, 7:49 PM Reply   
Great looking Moomba!!!

I just purchased a 14' Mondo. Spring can't come soon enough

edit: and I just purchased an F150

Last edited by CFD3Captain; 01-11-2016 at 7:49 PM. Reason: adding to
Old     (flienlow)      Join Date: Dec 2015       01-11-2016, 9:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFD3Captain View Post
Great looking Moomba!!!

I just purchased a 14' Mondo. Spring can't come soon enough

edit: and I just purchased an F150
Love the f150. I was amazed at how well a 6 cyl yanked that boat down the road. Complete crap for Gas mileage (9.8) but we were passing cars while doing 70.
Old    C W (CFD3Captain)      Join Date: May 2015       01-12-2016, 5:26 AM Reply   
HAHA! Yep! We pulled ours back from KY and ended up averaging 10.5 mpg. Of course that was doing 70-75 on the interstate The ecoboost has no issue towing, the turbos whistle and keep pulling!

I bought mine to pull the new boat as my wife's Explorer pulled the old one. This was the first time towing with it and it was a dream. Don't get me wrong, the Explorer towed nice, but that boat was 2300# dry LOL.
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Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-12-2016, 9:14 AM Reply   
yea these newer boats weigh a tad more! great looking boat there too!
Old    Patrick Castro (patrick232)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-12-2016, 10:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
yea these newer boats weigh a tad more! great looking boat there too!
Yes they do. My Mondo 20' feels like my old Moomba XLV 23' did, not my ols LSV 21'. Hard to believe we will start the 3rd season with the Mondo in March and the 9th as a Moomba owner.

Congrats on the LSV

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