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Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-14-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
So I saw this post in the Harley 1 set thread.

"I find it really funny you see all these wake companies go out and spend good money on making videos and put a lot of time and energy into making great sections, and this kid goes out with the help of Norbi and just throws down the most insane 3 minutes of riding I've ever seen. I'm not knocking all the sweet videos that are out now but this section seems to have it all for me, and was made with no weird angles, no stupid animations, and great tricks."

Which I brought up last night over some beers one the lake with my fellow wakeboard bretheren. What affect does this have on the wakeboard video community and wakeboarding as a whole.

I know for me that I need fresh video constantly, I cannot tell you how many hours I would spend in the past searching Youtube for fresh new video. Norbi and others are filling a Giant void in wakeboarding, feeding the constant need for new fresh video, up until a few years ago the content on wakeboargingmag.com and alliancewake.com did really get updated daily, maybe weekly if we were lucky. Now there are fresh videos posted almost every day. I think it's people like Norbi, Shredtown, Spencer, and others that are pushing this to happen. Thanks guys. Somebody also stated in that thread they, "love Norbi's videos but nothing gets them more pumped than a full length video." There is something magical about getting that new wake DVD in the mail or at the pro shop, unwrapping it, and popping it in the DVD player. Its much like buying a new CD, verses downloading it. But overall I have to disagree here, I love that I can watch them on my phone. My wakeboard community extends far beyond my house, my lake, I love that whenever Norbi posts a video I can blast an email to everyone I ride with for them to check it out and share the stoke.

I must say the level of riding and the crew that Norbi is riding an filming is amazing, your in the right place at the right time man. The latest Harley video is honestly the best set of wakeboarding I have ever seen. The Rathy videos out of this world. Keep it up Bro.

Which leads me back to my original question, with these viral videos becoming the norm are we going to see a end or a least a decline in full length videos? Or is this something that is going to help guys like Norbi to get backing (financial backing) to start shooting full length videos and become the next generation of Ronnie's and Stephens?
Old    Dave (captain_542)      Join Date: Oct 2006       04-14-2010, 8:59 AM Reply   
I have been a wakeboarder (to label myself) for 6 or 7 years only but I started with buying the dvds and watching them constantly over and over and I would get a new one every 4 months and it was great. Now I haven't bought a dvd in close to a year. I find all the video pleasantries i need on this site or at least a link to it.

I would like to continue to see team videos where sections are combined and helicopters are rented and far away trips are taken. Its always cool to see that stuff. Im kinda contradicting myself cuz I would like to see it but I can access quality footage of all the top riders right here. Norbi's and the other daily installments of new tricks and new riding is what got me thru the winter.

Id agree that its nice to get a video all hyped up and watch it and have your mind blown but I get that same feeling reading this forum for a posted video.

I hope companies continue to make videos and build huge stunts and get insane angles and I hope Norbi and shredtown and everybody keep bringing the normal doses of quality shred. I just wana thank them all.
Old    John Brine (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-14-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
Andy - Are you going after Benny G's job at alliance? This just sounds like one of his reflective 1 page editorials on the industry.
Old    K Money (blowhole)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-14-2010, 9:05 AM Reply   
youtube has to be the worst quality for wake videos ive seen, cant stand it. also in wake videos i normally have to FF through wakeskating just not into it. and if they show to much scenary FF again (like in transgression) or building wooden rails or slides FF through that. I just want to see wakeboarding.
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       04-14-2010, 9:32 AM Reply   
Im glad you can all enjoy my videos and like you said Im truly lucky to be in the perfect spot for wakeboarding.
and knowing all the riders and constantly riding and hanging out with them just puts me a step away from shooting and editing a new piece whenever I get a chance to. Im originally from Hungary and I know how it feels to be stuck in the cold and not be able to ride. the videos used to help me through those cold months and Im just honored I can do the same for so many people right now.
Im a fulltime film student at Full Sail university at the moment but when I graduate next february.
now, thats when Im going to take the next step and what'll come out of it ?
well we'll just all have to wait and see

have a good one and I cant say it enough,
Thanks For Watching!
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-14-2010, 9:41 AM Reply   
I completely agree with K Money on the fast forwarding part (maybe except through the wakeskating). Nothing ticks me off more than when I'm trying to watch one of my favorite wake riders and their showing me a stupid 2 minutes long clip of a girl riding a bike or some old house with crows around it. (ex: Such is Life) I believe the online videos are much better in that they get to the point and that it makes it much easier and less time consuming to share the stoke you get from these videos with others who may not know what wakeboarding is, like all my roomates lol
Old    K Money (blowhole)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-14-2010, 9:59 AM Reply   
i also watch snowboarding clips online. im just glad this forum isnt like some others full of haters. every clip they show someone has to say 'ah they suck' 'they're pants are too tight' 'their style is wack' 'their stance looks ertarded'. 'the music sucked'... i could go on and on. i hope it never hits bottom like that over here
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-14-2010, 10:07 AM Reply   
I am with you 100% percent Andy. I think the next logical step is allowing downloads of the video for like $2.50 or something...kind of like Apple's podcasts or whatever they are...which K Money touched on...quality. Once people can get these downloaded to an Iphone or Ipod in a good high quality form that they can throw on their television its going to put a serious hurting on full length movies. The main reason (IMHO) is that the editing and shooting takes so much time. Often times by the time a video is released the riders are already onto harder more difficult/different tricks. Our society is all about "instant results". Instant coffee, instant food, instant movies (on demand). You name it everyone wants it faster. The same applies here. When something amazing happens everyone wants it immediately...even if it results in less editing.

I do like different camera angles, specifically what Harrington recently did with the Go Pro pole cams. I think that kind of work coupled with Norbi's amazing stuff and some basic editing could really revolutionize the sport.

BTW, for anyone that skates...remember 411 video magazine? I think this could this being something like that (which I was saying YEARS AND YEARS ago!) For those that dont know 411...it was a videography company that filmed different skaters and created a 45-90 minute video every month. It brought skaters a GREAT view of what's going on in the sport and tons of different people. The videos sold for 10-15 bucks (VHS back then). Now with technology you can get rid of the major hard costs (VHS and shipping) creating a huge business opportunity IMHO.
Old    Teleprompted Anthems (TelepromptedAnthems)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-14-2010, 10:12 AM Reply   
Andy, you summed it up perfectly when you compared wake videos to music. If you ask me, wake videos are going to pretty much follow the trends that you're seeing in the record industry right now. Technology has made it really easy to create and consume content than it was even five years ago. You don't need a huge budget or distribution anymore to get your product in front of people. That's not to say those things don't help; they obviously do, but they're not necessary. On the flip side, consumers don't have to shell out the money to buy the products either; there's a steady stream of new stuff online for free. Therefore, I would bet that you're going to see less and less big projects like Push Process or The Truth and more short-form stuff like Norbi and Shredtown make.

There is a problem with all that though (and I'm going to get on a soapbox here, so there's your warning). Going back to the music analogy, we live in a time where the music industry is built around the concept of making music for people that don't even like music. You have the Lady Gaga's and the Asher Roth's and that little kid who was on SNL last weekend. Their job is to put out one or two records with two or three catchy songs and a lot of filler. The songs are played so much and beat into your brain that they just become familiar and people confuse that familiarity with quality. I see that happening when people say stuff like "I just want to see wakeboarding." They don't necessarily care about creativity and the amount of time went into the project, they just want to see something now because they haven't seen anything new since the day before yesterday. My concern is just that the sheer amount of content coming out right now cheapens the product and it becomes a quantity over quality thing.

Now don't get me wrong, Norbi and Shredtown and Spencer are not putting out lousy stuff, that's not what I'm saying at all. I just think Hi-Light was really good and I'd love to see what Norbi could do with the time and resources to make something that consisted of more than one or two sets. But if people would rather just see wakeboarding and that's all they care about, then it kind of defeats the purpose and there's no incentive for video guys to make the extra effort and there's no incentive for brands to support the video guys.

Now keep in mind, this is coming from someone who really loves making videos like this and I try to take a lot of time and make them the best I can. Maybe it's just sour grapes on my part because we may have been wasting our time and should have just shot one set from the boat, thrown some titles on it and people would have liked it just as much if not more than they already did. Hell, we've put out videos like that because it was all we had, so I'm guilty too. But I look back on movies like Spray and Mayday and Natural Born Thrillaz and it bums me out that there might not be videos like that in the future because nobody cares anymore.

I just read all that, and I'm kind of rambling so I hope that you guys get what I'm saying. I just don't want wakeboarders to end up like Lady Gaga.

EDIT - It took me forever to write that bad boy and some other people touched on similar points. Sorry for redundant info.

Last edited by TelepromptedAnthems; 04-14-2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Slow typer
Old    sperbet            04-14-2010, 10:35 AM Reply   
Bottom line, people won't spend money for things they can get for free. Sure there are some exceptions here and there, but overall I would tend to think that as free online videos become more of the norm the full length DVD releases will shrink.
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-14-2010, 11:02 AM Reply   
I'm not sure it is really comparing apples to apples here. The 2 set videos are awesome, and they give us our daily fix, but no matter how much free content is available, I always go back and watch Push Process or Drive. I enjoy the three minute clips, shot from the boat, of one rider in one place, but I also love to sit down on my couch, throw in a DVD and watch 45 minues of 5 or 6 riders all over the world from helicopters, chase boats, and ziplines. To carry on with the music analogy, I would compare a single song to an album. That song may be 3 minutes of bliss, but you can still appreciate the whole album. It has the same style as the song, but all the songs are different, and when you combine them to make the full album it's awesome. If you are bored and want some music, you throw on that one song, but if you are just looking to relax, you sit down and listen to the album. Each has their own time and place, and I hope the release of full length movies never ends, maybe just evolves.

Also, the word you are looking for is Effect.
Old    Teleprompted Anthems (TelepromptedAnthems)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-14-2010, 11:15 AM Reply   
Right, but less and less people are into sitting down and relaxing with an album, so they just pick and choose singles off of Limewire or iTunes. I see the same thing going down with videos.

Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong with releasing a bunch of "singles" as long as they're well made.
Old    Bret Rogers (bmr82)      Join Date: Jul 2008       04-14-2010, 11:29 AM Reply   
I live to come on here and see a new Norbi edit up.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2010, 11:42 AM Reply   
No offense Norbi, but

Quote:
I live to come on here and see a new Norbi edit up.
is the saddest life ever
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       04-14-2010, 12:26 PM Reply   
I think both have their place, but if one had to go, then I want to see daily/weekly clips of current riding over a full length feature that shows stuff riders were doing a year ago. I feel like so many tricks are being invented/changed lately that I don't want to have to wait a year before I see what is happening right now.
Old    Ronnie Romero (rorowake)      Join Date: Oct 2003       04-14-2010, 1:12 PM Reply   
The timing of this post is very good (see below). Let's face it... we live in an instant gratification society. People want it now and are not as concerned with quality. It's not just this industry that we see this in- or even just action sports in general.

People will now buy their TV's in a grocery store because it is more convenient- not caring if the product they are buying doesn't really fit their needs- they got an HDTV and they didnt have to think about it. Same works here for web wake videos. Nothing against the videos posted on here (mostly by Norbi)- in fact I find them very entertaining just like everyone else does- they are instant wake gratification- and they help get a guy like me through the cold winter months here in Nebraska! So, thank you!!!

With that being said- most any wake video that you see posted on the internet typically does not have much to offer as far as cinematography- again- nothing against them- as in order to turn videos like this out, I understand you don't have alot of time... They are typically shot in 1 afternoon, with 1 rider, and most of the time from 1 angle. Most of them are in high noon light and overexposed. None have licensed music. There are usually many repeats of the same trick and alot of times with sketchy landings. That's what you have to do in order to turn out videos on a weekly basis. And right now that's what the masses want- so I say GIVE IT TO EM...

It's a whole different ballgame when it comes to a "full production". If I didn't have 7 or 8 different locations to choose from for a section, golden light on 90% of shots, a plethora of angles to choose from (yes I said plethora- as in a plethora of sweaters ), riders that were focused on getting and selecting the right shot of every trick they do, steady cinematography, and proper exposure- I wouldn't think of putting a section out for a rider. But I come from the old school... when I waited all year just to get to watch a section in a movie that had Terje in it- because that was all he worked on for the year- or the same goes for skating- having to wait a year or even 2 to see the new Bones Team video. When you finally plopped down in front of your VCR you were so amped to watch it and then go ride.

Wake videos used to be the same way- but times are changing... and we as videographers and producers in the industry need to evolve (or start shooting porn) the way we are delivering our content... which brings me to my final point- check out the Best New Producer Contest that I am putting on in conjunction with Wakeworld & Byerly Boards... I am pumped to see what you all turn out!!!

http://www.wakeboardnebraska.com/videocontest


I wanna help find the next great web producer and help take his game to the next level as well as see some kick arse web edits throughout the spring/summer...
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-14-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
i love his stuff, particularly that there well made, and come out often, as i too like to search for new vids up once a week or so. keeps me amped.

but also being an amatuer videographer, i like the artsy, multiangle, 30 second intro style films. weather professional big productions, or or a guy with a camera and and eye.

i have noticed his films have become more laid back. ie just shots from the boat, and no intro. while i love the frequency of them. one a day nearly seems like. i also miss the full blown editing projects
Old    K Money (blowhole)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-14-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
a lot of these posts are too long for me to read
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-14-2010, 1:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorowake View Post
... and we as videographers and producers in the industry need to evolve (or start shooting porn)
funny you mention that. i just put together a trailer for a pr0n company.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-14-2010, 1:51 PM Reply   
K Money Seriously?

That is exactly why I posted this to get long soap box posts, I wanted to hear real opions for people like Ronnie and Umali, these guys are wired in to the cinematgraphy aspec of wakeboarding.

Anyway good stuff here, Ronnie that is a GREAT idea!!!!
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-14-2010, 2:18 PM Reply   
Maybe I'm weird, but I love the cinematography and creativity of a full length video. It adds so much to it and makes it an experience. I love bangers from todays top pr0z on the daily, but something is lacking. I love when a film maker and a rider collaborate and create a masterpiece part. They spend months maybe years on the part collecting footage and leaving all but 3-4 minutes on the cutting room floor. There is no room for sloppy tricks or repeats, only the best make the cut. And there is so much diversity in the footage filmed over that time span that the editor can really pick out the best shots (riding and photography) to compile a true representation of how wakeskating/boarding is viewed in the mind of the film maker and rider.

Quality online videos like watermonsters, forthegator, Norbi, and wakeplace are fun and keep us in touch with the wake scene.

but shooting for 3 minutes and making a 4 minute video of hand drags, butt checks, and cut off limbs isnt cool, dirtycracker .

Last edited by wakemitch; 04-14-2010 at 2:20 PM.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       04-14-2010, 2:31 PM Reply   
Check the contest we're doing with Ronnie Romero at WakeboardNebraska. We're looking for "Norbis" to work their magic coming up with killer videos and the best video will win a trip to Florida to shoot with Ronnie and meet Scott Byerly. The winners will also get doused with plenty of Byerly gear. Check out the details at http://www.wakeworld.com/news/featur...o-contest.html.
Old     (herecomesbilly25)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-14-2010, 3:39 PM Reply   
I have also noticed the similar trend. And I think it can be directly related to a technology / skill ratio. My example being the 16mm generation. At that time, only individuals who were skilled enough to learn such an acquired trade were capable of producing such content. Today, and Im not suggesting this is a negative thing, with such advancements in technology literally anyone and everyone has become a film producer in their own fashion. The only way I see the trend of full length feature wakeboard films making a strong comeback is by a skill level improvement by certain individuals. Only then will they be capable of producing a product exclusive in their own. Because today in the wake industry, filming has no exclusivity and riders are no longer exclusive. Riders recognize the exploding online media content today and fully embrace it. As a professional rider, you should capitalize on as much film exposure possible.

Compared to other industries, snow, surf, and even mountain bike films I see a huge gap in the caliber of professional films compared to amateur films. In the wake industry, I personally do not see as strong of a gap. And from my experience in the skate industry, there still is an element of exclusivity among those athletes.

Look at the wake industry and the absent number of full time film producers who have no affiliations with companies.

If its ever going to change, someone needs to step up. Oh and it'd help if some shops would stay open
Old    shane mckenna (mckenna)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-14-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
love the online clips to keep me with fresh vids every week.

i hope big companies dont stop making films.

how sick is push process or out of the pond, up on your big screen to get you pumped up on the lounge with a few beers.... think i will go watch one now!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-14-2010, 4:33 PM Reply   
this is not a shot at any one person (or persons) in particular, but i don't watch the online videos that often. every now and then, i'll take a peek at 'em and for the most part, i'll be impressed and entertained. but every now and then, one will ruin the online video experience for me, with 3-minute intros for a 5-minute video of the same tricks, at the same angle, shot at high-noon, with very shaky footage, even if it was shot at 1080p. to me, that just means bad filming in hd.

trust me when i say that i do understand the desire to pump out as many videos as possible. when i first started out, all i wanted to do was film on sat and/or sun, and have the video online by tuesday or wednesday. after all these years of doing it and being mentored by david cervenka, i must say that i have more respect to those that excel at cinematography and editing, like david cervenka (dpc films), ronnie romero (wakeboardnebraska), justin stephens (anyone remember cadmium films - he put out some of the best all time wake vids out there), sean kilgus (bfy), etc. i thoroughly enjoy and respect the work that they put in, some a year's worth, to make a section. like i said, for the most part, online videos are impressive and entertaining, so keep pumpin' 'em out for those of us that sit behind a desk all day long and need a little pick-me-up. 99% of the viewers enjoy them. that's what it's all about.

will full-length wake films ever go away? at today's rate, it could very well happen. the problem isn't the demand, it's the lack of support from companies. it's not that they don't believe in the filmmaker or that they don't want to support it, it's just that with today's economy, it's just tough to do so from a business standpoint. until the wake industry picks up (and it has to pick up drastically), filmmakers will have a tough time acquiring the funds from companies. unfortunately, a lot of funds is necessary to put out a quality full-length dvd. and thanks to cervenka and romero, the bar was raised even higher with the release of global warNing in blu-ray.
Old    Ben B (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-14-2010, 5:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post
trust me when i say that i do understand the desire to pump out as many videos as possible. when i first started out, all i wanted to do was film on sat and/or sun, and have the video online by tuesday or wednesday. after all these years of doing it and being mentored by david cervenka, i must say that i have more respect to those that excel at cinematography and editing
I think you make one of the best points out there, Joe, with this statement right here. There's just too many people out there that enjoy top-notch cinematography and editing. I myself LOVE watching Norbi's videos, because he's got a great eye behind the camera and he's always filming some top talent in wakeboarding. Sure he might not focus 100% on having it edited/exposed perfectly, but his vids have that feel that just make you wanna wakeboard and chill with friends on the boat. On the other side of it, I love watching full-length features, because like you said, you can't get the full-length cinematography or editing in a short 4-minute clip. There's nothing like watching a video of a team taking a trip around the country (or world) and getting the best possible shots and tricks that they can, in order to make the film the best it can be. It's almost more as if wakeboard videos are branching off into two categories, the "feature-length" and the "Norbi" category. But do i think full-length features will die out? Nah.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-14-2010, 9:05 PM Reply   
Just for the record I dont want features to die out. The Stuff Justin Stephens did back in the day was so amazing. BOOMBOX!!! WTF AMAZING!!! The Stuff Ronnie and Cervenka are making is amazing.
Old    DirtyCracker (ghettofab)      Join Date: Aug 2008       04-14-2010, 9:51 PM Reply   
This is a hard subject to talk about. Web Videos serve a purpose but a full length video can never be replaced. Watching a movie like Rewritten that was made with such high quality caliber cinematography puts web videos in their place. Its tough it really is it to make videos every week, weather, rider scheduling and just over all challenges of going out and shooting weekly web videos is tuff.

Websites don't want to pay for videos anymore when they can just get free videos. The cost filming these little web videos always out weighs what they are worth to a website. Website might pay you 50 bucks for a video that spent 40 bucks in gas and spent all day filming and night. In the "PRO" film industry daily filming rate for a videographer with a camera is 400-500 dollars and thats not even a edited video. Convincing someone to pay you 400-500 dollars for a day shoot these days is getting tougher and tougher with "Full Sail" kids who are looking to improve their demo reel and will film for free. Sure the client wants the "PRO" but when they can get some kid fresh out of full sail for free its a hard choice. Anyone can put a camera on a tripod and make a steady shot.

I know someone is going to flame me for caring about the money or some **** but when you dont have rich parents, a baby and a pile of bills its a lot about the money... I love me some wakeboard or wakeskating though honestly and thats why I keep on keeping on every month when I am broke and cant eat lol.

Videographers need to stand up against websites that are making money off viewers watching your videos and then in return you receive nothing but " SOME VIEWS". If you post a video on vimeo you can block it from being embedded. Cant pay the power bill with "views"
Old    DirtyCracker (ghettofab)      Join Date: Aug 2008       04-14-2010, 9:53 PM Reply   
o and wakemitch you take that back! I never make a 4minute video out of 3minutes of footage. I make a 2 minute video out of 30seconds of footage. get it right.

Last edited by ghettofab; 04-14-2010 at 9:57 PM.
Old    Josh Robinson (sideswipeproductions)      Join Date: Jun 2009       04-14-2010, 11:19 PM Reply   
I'm actually away filming in New Zealand for a couple of weeks for my next film, but I can't wait to weigh in on this topic when I get home.

I will say it makes me really, really, really sad and disheartened to see people out there not caring about quality and craft anymore. It scares me that after putting 1-2 years of blood sweat and tears into each riders section and traveling around the world to get the best locations off my own coin, consumers might just not care anymore because they can get a rushed, average looking youtube vid for free and be happy with it. I suppose it's just the way of the world, but it's still hard to swallow.

Is this the death of quality?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-14-2010, 11:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideswipeproductions View Post
I'm actually away filming in New Zealand for a couple of weeks for my next film, but I can't wait to weigh in on this topic when I get home.

I will say it makes me really, really, really sad and disheartened to see people out there not caring about quality and craft anymore. It scares me that after putting 1-2 years of blood sweat and tears into each riders section and traveling around the world to get the best locations off my own coin, consumers might just not care anymore because they can get a rushed, average looking youtube vid for free and be happy with it. I suppose it's just the way of the world, but it's still hard to swallow.

Is this the death of quality?
5 stars!
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       04-15-2010, 12:26 AM Reply   
i think repeat tricks, flat light and shakey video is WACK!!!

i like entertainment. i know what a blind pete and a whirly 7 look like. the beauty of a video isnt necessarily the riding, more often than not its the cinematography. and weekly 3 minute videos arent pleasurable to me.

but thats just my opinion....

Last edited by romes; 04-15-2010 at 12:26 AM. Reason: spelling correction
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-15-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
I often watch most of the rider's short "web" videos on this and other wake sites. I think this is how you can see a new trick landed a couple of days after, as opposed to waiting a year for the video or reading about it in a magazine. I think Norbi does great work and his videos reflect the quality of the time and effort he puts into each of his videos. Norbi is definitely a pro at what he does.

With that being said, I really appreciate all of the work that goes into producing a DVD. The filmmakers could easily make a video on location in Orlando and film from the back of the boat. I think a great deal of work is often overlooked by viewers as a lot of that work is not visible when we watch a 45 minute video. There have been many great videos, but my all time favorite is Transgression. In my eyes that video was a masterpiece and it is one of the few videos that I can watch from beginning to end (okay I'll admit it, I often go straight to Randall's section at the end {doesn't that section make everyone want to go out and ride?}, but I also love the collage from the Dominican Republic), and videos like that can not be cranked out in a few weeks or even a few months. I love the cinematography that went into that movie and hopefully we continue to see the hard work that goes into the films. I also like the sneak peeks and updates we have for the films. Granted, I can get a bit impatient waiting for the video to finally release, but it builds excitement.

I will continue to watch Norbi's videos, but I will also continue to buy videos.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-15-2010, 7:52 AM Reply   
In surfing it is pretty impressive how they are still able to keep tricks and clips pretty secret. I guess it has a lot to do with the locations they film at. I just watched Modern Collective ($8.99 on iTunes!!!) for the first time and could not believe what I was seeing. The video of Jordy on surfline coming out of the barrel then doing a huge rodeo was the coolest thing I had ever seen on a surfboard and then I watched modern collective and it was one of many jordys rodeos in the video. It was the other stuff they were doing (Jordy, Dane, Yadin, Dusty, and Dion) that was at a completely different level. They are doing different grabs, airs 5 feet over the lip over what I'm sure isn't just sand going all out. When people first saw this, it was ALL a surprise.

In sports like skating, wakeboarding and snowboarding, there is a lot more access so the feature films that come out really don't have to many surprises anymore. The last time we were surprised in wakeboarding is when Dannys 12 vid came out at the wake awards. I guess seeing these guys doing the runs that norbi gets but at a location like Shasta or Powell or Bullards Bar is what makes videos so special. They are doing tricks that we have seen but in places most of us will never get to go. With this in mind, it is all of the dfferent angles, locations, and editing that make me still get stoked to put in a DVD when it comes out. There will never be a video that gets me more stoked to ride than putting in Shafted and watching Parks parts. He does tricks in that vid that are still not being done today ie whirly 7 and double half cab roll along with the biggest double (triple up) hits I've ever seen.
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-15-2010, 9:45 AM Reply   
agreed jeremy, transgression was the best film ever made. for two reasons. amazing cinemitography, and a really long movie, got your moneys worth. still my favorite to this day.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-15-2010, 11:20 AM Reply   
Norbi freaking rules, there is definitly a Norbi effect! How can you not love a guy who goes out and gets the freshest stuff without even getting paid! He is changing the industry. It is really something special and he's giving us all a valuable gift! THanks bud!

Oh and I love transgression, but the music puts me to sleep and NEVER climaxes...

Last edited by wakemikey; 04-15-2010 at 11:22 AM. Reason: edit
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       04-15-2010, 12:25 PM Reply   
Thank's everyone for watching my flicks!
I can promise that I'll keep putting the same kind of effort into filming that I have over the years.
and I just cant stress it enough how badly I cant wait to be done with college so I can actually get out there and work on something never seen before and make it happen.
I'm just doing my part with the online videos trying to keep everyone updated thats not as close to the center of the whole wakeboarding community as I am.
I love watching full lenghts and both ends have their pros and cons.
its life.
but something's always the same. the passion. that drives us and keeps us motivated.
gotta love it !
anyways Im just at the ford dealership and I gotta stop by Harleys for a jiffy then Im off to OWC.
Had class at 9 am so Im super stoked to shred!
have a great day everyone!
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       04-15-2010, 1:38 PM Reply   
Pretty much every complaint that people have mentioned about internet video in this thread was an issue 5 years ago...the only thing that has changed is now there's more videos and they're in HD so today's internet video looks pretty good. But a turd is still a turd, and HD can't polish that. So you're stuck with even MORE blah looking videos that these blog sites are eating up because they subscribe to the quantity over quality mindset. It sucks, but that's the way things are nowadays I guess. The only thing I think will make a difference is to avoid the sites that publish crappy content and don't watch videos from people that you know make crappy videos. I doubt that'll change anything, though, other than you not having a headache from watching a bad video...

Internet videos can only kill DVDs if riders go out with internet filmers too much. So I think riders need to be cognizant of how much exposure they are getting and who they're getting it with. If you're shooting too much stuff for the internet, people may not be as pumped to hear that you're starring in an upcoming DVD. And I think that riders need to be picky about who they're shooting with. Unfortunately, you can't just go out with any filmer that owns an HD camera and expect results that you'll be proud of.

Last edited by scott_a; 04-15-2010 at 1:41 PM.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-15-2010, 2:28 PM Reply   
props to Norbi for sitting here and receiving pot shots from people feeling the heat.

There's a market for both, and hopefully there always will be, I will support big films. But I see this only being the beginning of the short internet clips. and for the exact reasons you say they are bad. EXPOSURE. In a 3min video, that's maybe put out every few weeks, riders can plug their sponsors and get exposure. Not wait until half a year goes by at least. People want to see what's going on, and real time or closest to is the most ideal. I mean half the time once a video finally comes out the riders have switched sponsors and set-ups. The whole world is moving closer to real time, that's what people will expect. It also seems that riders are beginning to take control, and whether it be bad angles, bad light, not a perfect landing or whatever, people still want to see it and see something new. It seems just as much that "filmers" want to maintain control, and i don't know if calling riders out for inviting lesser named up coming videographers is necessary, but riders can film themselves, post it quickly, prob sell more product and please sponsors, and unfortunately it hurts the filmers. But sorry, that's what most of the market wants. I can't go share Transgression by simply posting it on someone's FB wall, or send them a link, but I can a short clip. It helps gain exposure, and get people that don't come on this website to see the videos, and get exposed to the rider, their sponsors, and how good they are riding at the time. I made a post about and will say it again, the PWT needs to hire Norbi to make a promo vid that can be spread on teh internet and as a commercial on TV. Simply showing his latest vids will get more people to the stops this year, and that's growth and help to the sport.

I hope the long length films stay, because they have their place. But don't bash someone just because your feeling some heat. And I would put the quality of a lot of these videos up there with long length films. Do i notice the intricacies of lighting and other stuff? No. but i bet neither does the majority of the market until you try and persuade them to do so. I just think it's kind of weak to come on here and do that, especially when he is more than respectful to everyone.

Last edited by behindtheboat; 04-15-2010 at 2:34 PM.
Old    Charles S (Chuch)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-15-2010, 3:02 PM Reply   
I know its not apples to apples, but take a look at the music industry as its gone through some changes. By no means is an MP3 "HD" quality for an audio freak, but the majority of us are just fine clicking away and downloading for $.99. People go out on here and drop THOUSANDS of dollars on audio systems and then play a mix or MP3 through their IPOD to the system! LOL I know, I know...it has gotten better over time. AND....the music business has been forced to Adapt, all the while protecting their Intellectual property and figuring out new revenue streams. At some point, the producers (norbi), listeners (us) and artists (sponsored riders) started forcing the change.

Things change, and its people like Norbi getting out there and making it happen. I dig it. He's got vision and is meeting a certain need of everyone on this site. His stuff gets me through the 5 day work week and I come in everyday waiting for the next three minute clip my friends and I can all chat up! If I am going to sit on the couch, have a cold beverage....well then there will always be a place on my big screen for a nice full length. Just my $.02.
Old    Paul Strahm (jps912)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-15-2010, 3:20 PM Reply   
I really like all the videos guys like Norbi put out. Sometimes i dont feel the need to sit down and watch a full length video. My favorite part about it is I can watch them while Im at work. Its really nice to have a bunch of short videos to get you through the day at work. Its a good way to get your fix of wake boarding when you cant pop in a dvd.
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       04-15-2010, 4:41 PM Reply   
thats true. but I still think that it doesnt really matter how much coverage a rider gets in online vids like mine or anybody else's because if a full length movie comes out people are still going to buy it just to A. have it and B. see something they havent seen before. just because the riders the same that doesnt mean it cant be completely different. I especially know since Im a film maker myself. I know I can get my raw footie and make it into a slow or fast pace, jumpy or chill, messy or clean. its all about who makes em and where they shoot it at. the exotic locations that the dvds usually get shot at other than orlando are usually worth a look. even if you've seen that particular rider a few times before in other vids. thats just what I think about the whole deal.
Im going to shoot some new stuff pretty soon and I still have hours of raw footie I can edit.
so theres going to be some new videos coming up for sure!
have a good one peeps
Old    Ronnie Romero (rorowake)      Join Date: Oct 2003       04-15-2010, 6:40 PM Reply   
I think alot of you are taking this out of context... when has anyone here been disrespectful? Again... it"s like I said before. I personally enjoy the online web vids. However, look at a rider like Parks or Randall or Chris O. They don"t have web edits popping up on a weekly basis and when you do finally get to see those guys ride then you are even more pumped simply because of the unknown. And as a filmmaker thats MY ultimate goal... to let you as the viewer "see the unseen"- what you normally dont get to see when you go out and ride with your crew- When you see a new edit of Rathy on a weekly basis, it almost devalues a full riding section he may put out because the tricks have already been seen- and it has been stated many times that people dont care as much about the shot quality. just look at his section in Global Warning... trick for trick an absolutely mind blowing section- the kid is so crazy good- the only repeated trick in the whole section is a toe back 7- and thats because... its a toe back 7. Does this mean I think Rathy, or Harley, or whoever needs to stop filming for these web vids??? Hell no... they are giving their fans and the wakeboarding public what they want. I can only imagine how much either of those 2 would blow people's minds if you had to wait a year to see their latest tricks. Having a year to set up the perfect shot for the perfect trick. And thats the way I choose to film.

Its like said before, we as producers need to evolve our projects-... Norbi, Jon, PWieland, Shredtown, Spencer, Chad, etc need to keep doing what they are doing! In no way shape or form do I have sour grapes- in fact its directly opposite- I wanna see more vids- again which is the main reason I put together this New Producer Contest.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       04-15-2010, 7:15 PM Reply   
I'm in college and someday want to earn enough money to buy a nice camera, meet the right people, and make a living making wake films. That would my ultimate dream.

Ironically, I'm one of the bad guys, my own worst enemy. I'm a penny pincher and I love getting something free. And just like the most here, I like to know whats going on with the top athletes and what they're doing. I can understand the reasons for online videos... convenience, quantity, sponsors, exposure, etc.

I don't have a lot of money, but every now and then I'll buy a wake film. I fully enjoy the quality and the effort placed into a great film and if we want to keep seeing them I think its important we support them.

I just hope that quantity over quality isn't the future. Sadly, I think its starting to go that way. Which will mean less jobs and less full length DVDs. Not only for my future dream's sake, but for the guys that spend so much time and effort into a great film, I hope I am wrong. If you have some extra money, I encourage you to go out and watch the Slick City Premier, buy any wake film, or both. Support the industry
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-15-2010, 7:40 PM Reply   
One mans trash is another mans treasure I guess....

I buy wake DVDs all the time, but I prefer rapid fire internet videos like Norbi is putting out. I get stoked on new music and new videos more than anything else. I like a song for about a week and then I'm over it, same with wake DVDs. I bet I've watched that Rathy clip Norbi posted up two dozen times, maybe twice that if I was being honest, but in a few days it too will pass. But just like a good song, it'll be there 5 months from now when I'm fiending for a fix. Case in point. If you asked me when it came out, I thought Spencer's roomates video (http://vimeo.com/6510113) was probably this sickest thing ever the week after I saw it, but I got over it and now I still watch it every so often and get jacked up on it. Same thing with JDs section in hi-light, and Ben's section in the Truth, and Henshaw's (shared) section in relentless, and 50 other parts, and of course everybody's cherry popper, the vandall in NBT.

But the bottom line is, the best video part ever made, imo, will never be more than a month old, cause I'm always the most stoked on stuff that's fresh in my mind. I hope that quantity goes up magnitudes, I'm happy to sort through the wreckage to find a diamond.
Old    Bizzuck (bizzuck)      Join Date: Nov 2005       04-15-2010, 10:03 PM Reply   
This is another fun thread. WW has been popping lately.

Ronnie, don't try and down play what you are saying. You are hating on those videos. And there is nothing wrong with it. Your goal and what you want to produce vs. your belief of what a setflick is is totally different. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to sell yourself out to be humanitarian on the subject. Of course, that being said there are two totally different ways to look at this and one has been stated above. Repeatedly.

The other is, sure, Parks doesn't have a web flick coming out all the time. Here comes the good part people: He's been at the top of the game for YEARS. In fact, if you really think about it, the only guy still around from several years ago who still has set flicks coming out is Sharpe. (And I love his vids and also think he enjoys making them). I mean why would any higher ups like Parks, since you mentioned him, worry with a set flick? Exactly, they wouldn't. No reason too. Not going to help them. And then you have these guys like Harley. I mean, you had to be seriously following wake to know of Harley before last year. Now I'm sure that some of you have known about him since he was 12, but understand the point - he wasn't a boathold name until the end of last year. Hell, I sent the new norbi video to half a dozen people who ride that had never heard of him. And that's why these videos are such a hit. Because some video makers are still so focused on getting the 'big name' in the 'studio quality video with space shuttle shots' that they forget there is a huge market for someone who is throwing down the NASTIEST SETS EVER, not necessarily the hottest and biggest names from 5 years ago. And that's where Norbi comes in. He's making a quality product with relative unknowns. And that's why the kid needs to start selling his stuff on iTunes. He'd make a fortune. Norbi, I want 2.5% for this idea.
Old    Jon Doe (Kane)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-19-2010, 5:25 AM Reply   
I love both full length and shorter clips, and like many people here I like picking up new music while watching.
Off topic, I know, but when K Money spoke about fast forwarding it really struck a cord with me, anybody else get bothered by
wakeskating in a wakeboard video, esp if it's a 30 to 40 minute flick.
If I wanted wakeskating I'd buy a wakeskate DVD.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       04-19-2010, 1:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane View Post
I love both full length and shorter clips, and like many people here I like picking up new music while watching.
Off topic, I know, but when K Money spoke about fast forwarding it really struck a cord with me, anybody else get bothered by
wakeskating in a wakeboard video, esp if it's a 30 to 40 minute flick.
If I wanted wakeskating I'd buy a wakeskate DVD.
Everyone has their preference, there are all wakeboard videos, all wakeskate videos, and videos with both. Theres also a lot of companys that make films that'll have one or two wakeskaters on their team. So are they suppossed to release a different film of just one or two guys? Doesn't really seem like a team video when they don't get to ride with their whole team. If you really don't like to watch it that bad then don't buy a film that has a wakeskater in it. I for one love to watch wakeskating.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-19-2010, 1:56 PM Reply   
Always amazed by wakeskating behind the boat. Can't believe the stuff they do.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-19-2010, 2:23 PM Reply   
Wakeboarding was first in snowboard videos before they got their own videos, same as how wakeskating was in wakeboarding videos before they got their own videos. you will see less wakeskating in wakeboard videos now because wakeskating has really gained their own identity. But wakeskating in wakeboard videos gives people who may not be familiar with wakeskating their first look at the sport. But in my opion the wakeskating that is in current wakeboard videos is more or less bindingless wakeboarding (brian grubb and/or mainly w2w riding) rather than wakeskating.

If it wasnt for tim kovacich and brian grubb being in Free4All i might not be wakeskating today. I got that video because of the amazing list of wakeboarders in the video but when i watched the video for the first time I was blown away by what i saw with the wakeskating.

But I see your point, its weird for me to see wakeboarding in wakeskate videos like Homeless and We're Just Skiing.

But then again who is to say a video like Such Is Life is a wakeboard video with wakeskating in it? To me its a mixed video. Wakeboarding and wakeskating are equal in that video. Videos like The Truth and Rewritten can't be called wakeboard videos in my opion, they are team videos. They showcase the whole team and the different sports the team members participate in. But even that will fade away. The Liquid Force wakeskate division (Obscura) now has their own team video coming out, so you probably will not see any wakeskating in the next Liquid Force video.

Wakeskating needed wakeboarding in the beginning(maybe still does) to gain new riders and interest. But who isnt to say that wakeboarding needed wakeskating to bring new life and freshness to a stale sport a few years ago? (in the last two years there has been a lot of progression and changes in wakeboarding that in my opion have made wakeboarding revitalized)
Old    Jon Doe (Kane)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-19-2010, 3:37 PM Reply   
Sorry guys, I wasn't hating, I skate myself (very badly) and I can recognise that those guys have serious skill. No doubt.
And I understand about team videos but LF are taking out a solo skate DVD this year, as Mitch said, will there be any wakeboarding in that? I doubt it.
Why not include their female and grom riders in team flicks also? Hyperlite have never done it and with the exception of Amber Wing the female team barely get a look in in LF. (Again I'm not hating, I love the team flicks, just my observation)
There are only a handful of wake DVD's released every year and I buy most of them, if I where to limit myself to wakeboard only DVD's I'd be buying 1 a year!
So again I'm not hating, just saying that if I wanted a skate DVD I'd buy one, let skate step out of wakeboarding's shadow.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-19-2010, 7:59 PM Reply   
Well the liquid force flicks don't have the girls and groms (usually, minus Amber Wing) because they don't have a colossal bag of tricks (look at the guys sections, how many repeat tricks do you see? Not too many) required to make a full section with a 4 minute song. Plenty of LF's riders weren't in The Truth beyond just a blurb, and it was only their heaviest hitters that got full sections. Even Ben Greenwood's section's song was shortened so that it wasn't repeating stuff over and over.

The lack of full sections for those riders isn't because of a lack of love, but because of a lack of footage of different tricks by that rider. It doesn't even necessarily have to do with how big their bag of tricks is either, if their schedules don't line up, then you wind up without enough footage as well. At least that's how I feel like it probably works, I could be completely wrong though.
Old    Mark Griffin (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       04-19-2010, 8:31 PM Reply   
I think episodic bit sized content is the way to go. You can already see it in the way music distribution has evolved. Smaller content regularly at low prices. There is and always will be a spot I hope for regular length epic movies but it simply takes too long between releases, plus they aint cheap.

I think Norbi has played his cards very well, and almost single handedly paved the way for a new model of wake video delivery. Nobody or very few people would have payed money to see his vids before as he was an unknown. However now he has leveraged his friendships with the pro riders into a place where I think they all know who he is and would have no problems having him film them. Look at the exposure hes brought to top name riders, most notably Nick Davies, then recently Rathy and Harley.

I know I personally wouldnt have a problem paying a small fee to see the latest Norbi vid, because by now I know I can expect a minimum level quality which I associate with a "Norbi Video".
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       04-20-2010, 7:06 AM Reply   
Heres the latest addition to the Norbi Effect :

Sam Thomson from Norbi Vasko on Vimeo.



Sam Thomson Himself:

He just recently moved in with Harley and its needless to say he shreds! He's originally from Australia and he's 20 years old. I definitely had fun shooting this one.
even tho I woke up at 5 and was so excited for the sunrise shoot I couldn't go back to sleep.
tune by : Vampire Weekend - Giving Up The Gun
Enjoy

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