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Old    Adam Silcio (adamsilcio)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-13-2010, 6:15 PM Reply   
i tried it for the first time the other day and learned a backside 180. i'm wondering if it's also good to learn inverts this way too. we slowed the boat down to about 18 mph. my friends said the falls are low impact and its a great way to build some good fundamentals on top of learning more advanced tricks. just want to know if anyone else has tried this before....
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-13-2010, 6:45 PM Reply   
Short rope sessions on wind blown days. We do 18-19mph with about a 50ft line. I've learned raleys, bat wings, spin variations, backroll, ts backroll, r2r. I would say it's a great learning tool. One thing I noticed is that trip flips don't work out very well. The wake almost swallows you and not much tripping action.
Old    Vince Dinatale (supratweaked)      Join Date: Aug 2005       04-13-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
Short line and slow speed is a great way to work on foundation and new tricks without getting worked. During late Fall last year, I was doing three foundation sets to each regular wake set. I found that my riding improved and once I got over the initial soreness that my stamina improved too. Sometimes you need to step back to move forward.

Some inverts you need to just "go for it" wake to wake. TS FR is a good example. JMO

NCF 4 LIFE
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-13-2010, 8:40 PM Reply   
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll the time. Thats how I learn pretty much everything. Just watch out because the wake can get a lot bigger at slower speeds. Didnt see it coming once and got absolutely wrecked on a backroll.
Old    Adam Silcio (adamsilcio)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-13-2010, 9:58 PM Reply   
well, i've put off learning the tantrum for so long because of a huge mental block. i can do ts fs 5, roll-to-revert, hs fs 3, scarecrow, krypt, and many other intermediate level tricks... but one of the most basic inverts--the tantrum--i still have not tried to learn. i figured doing it with slow speed and short line would be good and more forgiving, or is my assumption wrong? Mark(mofreestyle) relayed that trip flips don't work out very well when the boat is going slow....
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-13-2010, 10:04 PM Reply   
It helped me a lot learning off axis spins.... a lot less scary to cut in and huck yourself at 3/4 mph slower and shorter.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       04-13-2010, 11:44 PM Reply   
Everyone has different styles of learning.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-14-2010, 3:38 AM Reply   
It's definitely a great training tool. Bob Soven said that's how he learns most of his new scary tricks first. It's the wakeboarding version of a foam pit.
Old    Jim Spearing (spearing)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-14-2010, 7:28 AM Reply   
I never slowed or shorten the rope . I was riding before pylons and towers so i guess i learned a lot of tricks at the short length and slower speeds and the progression has been Faster and longer lines. i think i will try this shorter and slower for future tricks.
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-14-2010, 8:47 AM Reply   
Thats how i learned all my 3's and bs 180's! Its a lot less frightening when your going 18mph and doing single wake tricks until your comfortable enough to take them wake to wake. It feels kinda stupid at first because your not getting a lot of air and only doing single wake but you forget all of that once you can go out and throw down those tricks you learned from shortening the rope! Just go out with one other person who your not worried about impressing and work on nailing that 3 or whatever else your working on.
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-14-2010, 9:37 AM Reply   
Let me clarify my statement...I watch a good friend of mine who has huge floaty tantrums try a couple and every time got stuck upside down and never make the rotation. It looked like with the slow speed the wake is really soft which looked like the board was getting swamped with water when trying to trip. I decided not to try any tantrums but did try some crows and it was a similar outcome. So I'm not saying it's not possible and the worst that can happen is a nice soft crash. I think even if you don't complete the tantrum you can get over the fear/mental block.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-14-2010, 9:43 AM Reply   
We rarely slow down, but often bump the speed when learning new tricks. Especially spin tricks. Even just bumping makes the crashes less brutal. However, you need a skilled driver who's paying attention.
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-14-2010, 9:48 AM Reply   
What is bumping speed?
Old    Ronnie Johnson (slidin_out)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-14-2010, 10:32 AM Reply   
absolutely!!! Last summer after getting better at nothing for a couple of months I got my buddy to start slowing the boat down to 18ish. Started out with surface 180's then one wake 180's and backside 180's both regular and switch. still haven't hit any of those w2w yet but this year the first half of every session will be slowed down to work on the fundamentals. No shame in going slower. Helps get that muscle memory engrained so when you take it full speed it's much easier than just huckin' it and murdering yourself on tricks.
Old     (wtrgrl)      Join Date: Mar 2009       04-14-2010, 10:37 AM Reply   
Yup, I always run slower at the beginning of the season. One of my buddies hassles me everytime but he also says he can see I'm improving alot faster
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-14-2010, 6:31 PM Reply   
yeah i slowed the boat down to about 16 mph to learn all my spins bs 180, fs 3, bs 3, ts bs 180 and ts 540.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-14-2010, 7:09 PM Reply   
I think I'm going to try this. I typically wreck myself on trick attempts. What line length are youguys doing at 16-19?
Old    SoCal MOB (rnopr8)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-14-2010, 7:55 PM Reply   
I Always slow it down to learn new tricks. I think its suicidal not to!!!
Old    David (David126)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-14-2010, 8:04 PM Reply   
WHen yall shorten the rope what do you shorten it to vs what it normally is
Old    Zack (Kolola_Bear)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-14-2010, 8:57 PM Reply   
I dont know the technical def of bumping, but i believe its when you take off and the driver slows the boat down.
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-14-2010, 10:37 PM Reply   
Bumping as I know it is the driver pulls back on the throttle just a little bit as the person lands so that the rope tension doesn't pull them out of their landing. Slowing down when the person takes off of the wake could be bad because line tension is needed in almost every trick.

Chris and David-

When we slow down to around 18mph I have a rope has two lengths 45 ft and 50 ft.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       04-14-2010, 10:45 PM Reply   
i try new tricks at the same speed and length i normally ride at. for me i hate having to learn it two times.....
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-15-2010, 5:22 AM Reply   
I normally speed up. If I can land a trick skipping off the rooster tail, going 35 MPH, then I can land one at normal speed off the wake.
Old    Audrey (sexyws6mama)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-15-2010, 8:19 AM Reply   
Normally we don't slow down but all we do is 180's right now. Maybe with more advanced tricks? We normally stay at 21.7 mph
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       04-15-2010, 10:58 AM Reply   
Audrey, I think a lot of people ride at faster speeds normally (23-25mph), so 21 is closer to "slow" than "normal" for the majority.
Old    Mason Hodge (MasonH)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-15-2010, 6:26 PM Reply   
Is it just me or when you shorten up the rope, it is has ALOT more tension and harder to ride.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-16-2010, 1:30 PM Reply   
Bumping is when you cut the speed a few mph just as the rider lifts off of the wake. That way, you still get the pop needed for the advanced tricks but you don't get yanked by excessive line tension.

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