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Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-03-2010, 6:48 PM Reply   
It should also be noted Dirty, that I never said I could do better than Ryan. I said that I could make something much more creative, which was supposed to imply that I was aware of the lack of legitimately creative shots in mine... And while the cinematography in Ryan's video is absolutely amazing, there are only a few shots that are legitimately creative. The rest are standard shots from videos that he did better than pretty much everyone. Zip line shots were being done long before his. The slow tracking shots are done everywhere in dozens upon dozens of videos. Rewritten's trailer was basically the same kind of shots, the same slow tracking/panning. I've seen the same shots in Kilgus's, Umali's, Seidenglanz's, Stephens's and Romero's videos. His shots are exceptionally well made, but not especially creative. So before you start drooling all over his video, maybe you should watch some others and you'll see where his inspiration came from.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Ryan's video, I'm just pointing out that his video isn't this bastion of creativity that you keep acting like it is. Amazingly well made, yes. Drop dead gorgeous shots, absolutely, super creative? Not in particular. And you'd be surprised at how many shots I had that were very similar to that, but that I cut because I went in a different direction with a different song from the original plan, or because they didn't turn out well due to lighting and focus/steadiness issues with my dinky little HG-10 that is broken to the point that I can't even change the settings on it. Does it justify me making a very meh video? Helllll no. But it does mean that I was working on the same kinds of shots, I just couldn't get them to appear how I wanted them because I'm not all that good.

But now that I have the challenge with you calling me out like you did (and you called me out first), I'm going to do everything in my power to get the shots that I wanted within the next two weeks.
Old     (ghettofab)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-03-2010, 7:16 PM Reply   
Nick i dont know if you know but I make videos too. Here are some my very unoriginal shots and angles. Thanks Justin Stephens and everyone else who inspired me! I wonder who inspired them?

here a video with very unoriginal dolly shots, gopro shots and all that fun stuff.

here another video with the same old chase shots and above shots.

The fact im trying to portray is that without people before us, without inspiration from somewhere none of us would know what to do. I can say that I have studied Stephens, AVE, seidenglanz, romero, kilgus learning what I like the most from each of them then trying to merge into some kinda funky thing that I think is me. Sure it might not be original but what i do with the shots in the editing stage makes them so far from what the pioneers might of done.

Ryan Taylor also has his own style with his videos that i have watched over the last year or two. Hes a great colorist (im color blind). he does love the dolly thats for sure but thats his thing. at the end of the day all these videos are our own.

trust me people were using cameras long before the pioneers of wakeboard cinematography.

but i still doubt that you could surpass ryan's unoriginal creativity in the 2 weeks that could of been given. Not even creativity but the shear production value of your videos are still far from ryan taylors. and tutis. u gotta hold that camera steady. a shaky shot creative or not will never look pretty.

Last edited by ghettofab; 08-03-2010 at 7:24 PM.
Old     (ghettofab)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-03-2010, 7:51 PM Reply   
o and not trying to sound like a dick. your stuff is fine nick but just funny how u flipped out about how in 2 weeks someone could watch ur video and know exactly how to beat you.
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-03-2010, 8:31 PM Reply   
This start was written after the rest of this post. I feel like it's long winded and that it doesnt' make sense. but I don't really know how to try to explain what I'm saying, so I kind of just kept vaguely repeating things in here. Hopefully you'll see what I'm trying to say, but yeah... This isn't supposed to be hostile sounding (and neither were the others, but I think they did because I have an aggressive way of writing), sorry.

They're not original dirty. I'm aware that you make videos dude. And two weeks can do a lot, a lot a lot to give a person who already has a bunch of stuff ready to add in the stuff required to beat people, assuming they have even an inkling of what they are doing. But you agree that it's not truly original. It is super rare that any videographer these days makes something truly original. Even if full fledged movies, it's rare to see an amazingly creative shot. I got ripped on by a ton of people when I made a gnarcolepsy logo out of cardboard pieces before I had even seen Relentless, but people kept telling me that I stole it from there, despite a bunch of changes that I made to the actual thing (I watched relentless shortly after I was called out on that).

You make it sound like I'm trying to take away from his videos by saying that the shots aren't exactly the most creative. They are amazingly done. He's a truly talented videographer and will go very far. But a talented videographer can take unoriginal/uncreative shots and make them amazing by doing them better than the creator by essentially fixing the problems with the original shot. That's what I'm trying to say here Dirty. His cinematography takes the non-creative shots and makes them his own by doing what he thinks corrects the shots to make them better, but that doesn't mean that they're creative. Creativity implies making something new., new ways of filming, new kinds of shots that haven't been done before. That's all I'm saying. Cinematography is an art form that is drastically reduced in the realm of how much more you can do to create something new seeing as how you already said, it's been around a long time.

At the same time I understand completely what you're saying in that making stuff your own is creative in and of itself. Maybe we just look at things differently, because when I think of how to make a shot similar to what I see in videos, I feel like I'm stealing the idea rather than building on it, despite it being different in some realm.

Production value has something that tends to do with the equipment involved, which brokeass people like me who require the good will of others to allow him to film them don't have much in the way of a chance there. And yes, I'm aware that I'm nowhere near his level when it comes to production value, but I never said that I was...

I know about my shaky hands. I still need to get better at that. There were a few shots in there that were just bad in the shaky department that I put in because I'm an idiot. It's a lot less shaky than my videos used to be, but I still have a fair amount of work to do. I also need better chase drivers that don't force me to zoom in so much. That's a killer. So is filming in choppy water.

Overall it was my video and my production, and I'm aware that it was my responsibility to account for factors like that.

But you laugh like what I was saying can't happen. Who's to say that there isn't someone out there like you or something who knows what they're doing, ran out of time and didn't get their entry in, but then saw all of the other entries. Two weeks is more than enough time to build upon what you've seen in the videos that have been entered, and to try to surpass them. I've come across quite a few random videographers that I've never heard of from places like the northeast that just kill it when it comes to making videos, but they didn't enter. All that they'd have to do is build upon it and if the people who entered weren't allowed to do a fairly fresh overhaul to their video, then who's to say that the late entries don't have an advantage? Other people said that, I just expanded upon what they were saying because again, I'm too long winded when I'm at work. Hah.

I feel like I need to get off of this caffeine that I'm using to keep me awake at work because it's resulting in rants. I think being trapped in a dark room full of clacking projectors, with caffeine and a computer makes me tend to write things out way more longwinded than they should be. Can we call a truce? haha. I think it's too late and I'm about to get destroyed via flame by others, but maybe I can make peace with you. =P
Old     (ghettofab)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-03-2010, 8:49 PM Reply   
you feel like your stealing? stealing what? nothing in your video was new or even close to remotely innovative that stood you apart from the pack. So you must feel like you "stole" all those shots. Tuti and Ryan Taylor stood out from the pack because they were creative in using their "stolen" ideas for shots.

blaming choppy water and chase drivers is kinda sad. I filmed on SML for 2 days and we had to work to get good conditions but we made it happen. You also gotta talk to you chase drivers too.

I think what this all comes down to is you are mad or sad or maybe not that you haven't been the crowd favorite. And I doubt anyone would of really entered in that 2 weeks anyway seeing how long this contest has been posted on here.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-03-2010, 8:59 PM Reply   
^^^^ Lameness. Killing the vibe of what this whole contest was about.
Old     (DoctorAgon88)      Join Date: Feb 2010       08-03-2010, 9:30 PM Reply   
It's DirtyCracker, what do you expect?
Old     (ghettofab)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-03-2010, 9:38 PM Reply   
sorry to run this thread into a brick wall multiple times. Party on! It will be interesting to see what happens with the judging. Im sure who ever wins will really be stoked on getting to film with byerly i had to pinch my self a couple times the first I did. The godfather baby.
Old     (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-04-2010, 10:37 AM Reply   
I disagree, the idea of extending it for 2 weeks, implies to me that someone asked for an extension (a procrastinator) so that they could get their film in on time. If this is true, who knows how great or how mediocre that producer is and what they have currently shot over the length of the summer. But shoot me down if I'm just making nonsense ramblings.

I encourached Nick to get something in when I heard about the contest. He told me he was thinking about entering but didn't think he was going to win with all of the backyard producers there are in the wake industry.

Now Tuti's and Taylor's are in my personal opinion way ahead of the pack in this contest. I don't think any of the current videos would beat one of the top 2 within 2 weeks, but again thats just my opinion. But there are prizes for 3rd place all the way to 6th place too. A lot of the videos in this category that were posted were very similar in quality in my personal opinion. I kindof think that it wouldn't be impossible for someone that is in 6th to improve on their video or change it up completely to beat whoever would get 3rd place.
Old     (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       08-09-2010, 2:44 AM Reply   
I liked all of them but definitely Tuti has my vote, most creative opening, putting a sense of drama and story into the video is something that is rarely seen and very cool I think. Plus the footage itself looked awesome, combined with Aye riding sick and it was just overall the most appealing I believe.
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-17-2010, 9:21 PM Reply   
And the envelope please.........
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-26-2010, 1:23 PM Reply   
Congrats Ryan Talor! Way to rep MN!
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-27-2010, 12:48 AM Reply   
Results are up:
Old     (HuYuFuLin)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-28-2010, 1:49 AM Reply   
Why didn't Tuti just finish the story?
Old     (bradis86)      Join Date: May 2008       08-29-2010, 3:15 PM Reply   
Congrats Ryan. Hope they do another contest next year.


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