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Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       04-07-2010, 8:16 PM Reply   
I already have 303 but was wondering about Babes Seat Saver. Both have a reputation of being good products with UV protection. Cost is about the only differenct with Babes being $35 gallon and 303 at $65.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       04-07-2010, 9:08 PM Reply   
I switched to the Babes and coudlnt be happier. I didnt like how the 303 stays slick.
Old    Marc Rounds (calipackfan)      Join Date: Jul 2008       04-08-2010, 6:38 AM Reply   
+1 on Babes. I use just about everything they carry. Exquisite for the interior deep clean, then seat saver for the final coat.
Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-08-2010, 7:24 AM Reply   
I used 303 for years and just switched to Babes last summer. Like sparky says, less residue on the seats. I think babes smells better too. +2 on Babes
Old    Dennis (denystaucd)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-08-2010, 7:26 AM Reply   
I've tried both and prefer the 303 (6 years of using now), seems to do a little better. Either way I think both help a lot in saving interiors. I've seen boats the same year as my old one (2002) that no protection was used regularly and the interiors had severe vinyl cracking.
Cheers,
DC

+1 on 303 being like a slip & slide though.......
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-08-2010, 7:32 AM Reply   
are these conditioners or just UV protection?
are they sprays(ie liquid)

ive been using that expensive 3M stuff from academy, its a creme. works VERY well, but time consuming to apply.
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-08-2010, 8:09 AM Reply   
I prefer 303, for one it’s recommended by the vinyl manufacture, leaves more protection and lasts longer than Babes does. After a couple of times out on the lake the water just didn’t bead off as well. I’m now trying a product from Boat Bling their Vinyl Sauce and then use Condition Sauce as protectant.
Old    Rob Foster (surfdoggy)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-08-2010, 10:44 AM Reply   
+1 Babes
Old    Edgar Ramon (jame04)      Join Date: Nov 2007       04-08-2010, 11:31 AM Reply   
I use babes but last year there was a thread on a product that was suppose to remove everything that Babes and others left behind. I don't remember the name but maybe someone can chime in. It even showed before and after pics.
Old    Charlie Koch (cwkoch)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-08-2010, 11:35 AM Reply   
I just tried the Malco PB2 protectant that some others had recommended.... Very happy with that so far. Very shiny. Doesn't seem as slippery as 303. Says it has a UV protectant in there.
Old    Brain Rinse (brainrinse)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-08-2010, 1:06 PM Reply   
The manufacturer of my boat's vinyl specifically says not to use silicone based products. The Malco PB2 is silicone based. Your decision, but FYI. Here it is in print, clear at the bottom. http://www.lenscove.com/LinkClick.as...edownload=true
Old    Charlie Koch (cwkoch)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-08-2010, 1:18 PM Reply   
That's interesting.... I have a Malibu, and I got that sale slip of paper about the care instructions, but I never caught that part about not using silicone on the vinyl. I'll have to do some more checking on this.... This really sucks if that is really not supposed to be used. I just bought a gallon of the PB2, and I got 3 other friends that bought gallons of it with me also!
Old    Chris (ccripps)      Join Date: Oct 2003       04-08-2010, 3:04 PM Reply   
I just got done cleaning all interior with Blue Magic which worked great, then went over everything with 303 (which is very Slippery)

The Blue Magic Bottle doesn't say anything about what it is base on.

Their web site says Oleic acid, Sodium lauryl sulfate and Diethylene glycol monobutyl ether Sure hope that doesn't turn the Interior into a cracking dry up mess?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-08-2010, 5:00 PM Reply   
Malco PB-2™ is a multi-purpose emulsion dressing. Not only does it offer high levels of rich, lustrous gloss, but also it leaves a protective film that penetrates into vinyl, rubber, leather and plastic surfaces. This protective film helps prevent drying, hardening and cracking due to plasticizer loss and oxidation caused by ozone and UV light exposure.

DP, your manual also says to use Fantastik on the vinyl which has been proven to be a bad idea with their new formula.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       04-08-2010, 6:31 PM Reply   
I also switched from 303 to Babes and will never go back. That slimy greasy feeling when wet has disappeared.
Old    Mattt (motorcitymatt)      Join Date: Feb 2007       04-08-2010, 7:13 PM Reply   
Babes all the way!
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-08-2010, 8:46 PM Reply   
I've done 303 for years. Just ordered a bucket of babe's products from dth inboards. I'll let you know what I think next week.
Old    Charlie Koch (cwkoch)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-16-2010, 10:01 AM Reply   
So, I actually just talked to Malco about this Silicone on vinyl issue.... He said the silicone is not what dries the vinyl out. He said it's the solvents that are in some products. I asked him about Armor All, and all the issues that caused. He said the Armor All is actually a derivitive of a FLOOR WAX, and what it did was seal the vinyl completely so it couldn't breathe. Plus, it had those solvents in there that attacked the vinyl on top of that.

As far as Malco goes, he said they have done extensive testing on their products for years, and their PB2 is completely safe for vinyl. They even have a marine line under the name "Presta", and their marine vinyl protectant under that line is IDENTICAL to PB2 under their Malco name.

More information I learned from my Malibu dealer- G&T Marine and 303 are owned by the same company. That's why they only recommend 303- because they're the one's making it!!

As far as Babe's goes, I'm sure it's a great product, but I've never used it. They claim no silicone as well, but from what I've heard, the silicone is no big deal. Another product out there that seems to be gaining popularity is Boat Bling. They have a vinyl conditioner product, and it contains silicone. I've emailed with Patrick about this, and he also says that silicone is safe for vinyl.

So, personally, I think all this "Silicone is bad" talk is a scare tactic to scare you into buying only 303 Protectant for your vinyl, so the same company that made your vinyl can continue making money after the sale..... It's your call on what you use though..... But I wouldn't be afraid of a product with silicone in it after talking to Malco and Boat Bling directly.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-16-2010, 12:02 PM Reply   
Good job doing research Charlie, I too spoke with my rep and he eased my mind regarding vinyl drying out with silicone.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-16-2010, 2:08 PM Reply   
G & T Industries makes the vinyl for our boats. They used to be called Marine Specialties Group. G & T is not owned by anybody. They are 100% employee owned and therefore cannot be owned by anybody else who also owns 303 products. I can't find any info that G&T owns 303 so I think Charlie's dealer is wrong. It would seem that 303 and G&T have nothing to do with each other.

Also see http://www.carveryachts.com/display-...x?chaid=162653

They have info from G&T Industries that says "Do not use any silicone based protectants, they will extract the plasticizer leaving the vinyl hard and brittle, and eventually cracking will occur."

I think I will go with the recommendation of the manufacturer of the vinyl. I'm not a 303 fan as my bottles always seem to turn moldy after a year and then I have to throw the remains out. My vinyl does always look good though.

Also, 303 is recommended by a LOT of companies. See here http://www.303products.com/shop303/i...lay&page_id=48

Lastly, of course Malco says theor products are safe. Do you think they are going to tell you their products are not good for vinyl. "Yes sir, our products will ruin you vinyl, you better not buy out products."

Bottom line is that I will try Babes assuming I find out that it does not have silicone.

Last edited by tre; 04-16-2010 at 2:10 PM.
Old    Jason (black_ops_09)      Join Date: May 2009       04-16-2010, 2:36 PM Reply   
303
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-16-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
Do you think Malco is intententionally putting out a product that hurts vinyl? Why would sooooo many very reputable companys put out products with silicone in them if it was known to harm vinyl, rubber etc?

To answer your question: No, I don't think they would tell you their product hurts vinyl because it doesn't.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-17-2010, 11:30 AM Reply   
I don't think anybody that puts silicone in their vinyl products is doing it to intentionally hurt vinyl. They want to sell you their product so of course they are going to say it is fine. They are in the business of selling you a product they make. They are not going to tell you not to buy it.

Why would one of the biggest manufacturers of boat vinyl say silicone hurts vinyl if it does not? What possible reason would they have to say this?
Malco has a vested interest in selling you something. A vinyl manufacturer has no vested interest one way or the other. You car manufacturer tells you not to use E85 gas in your car that is not made specifically for E85. Are you going to buy E85 gas because somebody who sells E85 gas tells you it is ok to put in your car?
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-17-2010, 12:24 PM Reply   
The manufacturer tells you that because they believe it to be true however eroneous in may be. Again that same manufacturer still says to use Fantastik on the vinyl where as the other manufacture's that use to recommend it have advised against since the formula change. It's also quite likely that they get a kick back from the makers of 303 by placing it in their manuals.

Quote:
I don't think anybody that puts silicone in their vinyl products is doing it to intentionally hurt vinyl.
Then you just think their chemists who came up with the formula are idiots?

Quote:
They want to sell you their product so of course they are going to say it is fine. They are in the business of selling you a product they make. They are not going to tell you not to buy it.
This is just a rewrite of what you said before so I'll say again I don't believe several top companies that produce these products are so foolish as to put out a product that is harmful while its suppose to be protective.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-17-2010, 1:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
The manufacturer tells you that because they believe it to be true however eroneous in may be. .

I guess you think the vinyl manufactuer my be wrong. I guess I think the manufactuers of silicone based vinyl products "may" be wrong. Neither of us know 100% for sure who is right.

What we do know is that nobody ever said not to use Babes or 303 on vinyl (only not to use silicone). I choose to error on the side of caution and will use Babes or 303 since nobody ever said those will hurt vinyl. Other people can make their own decisions.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-17-2010, 2:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
I guess you think the vinyl manufactuer my be wrong. I guess I think the manufactuers of silicone based vinyl products "may" be wrong. Neither of us know 100% for sure who is right.
LOL very true, just putting trust in proffesionals.

For the record I love Babes and have nothing against 303 aside from the slickness it causes tends to stick around forever. But its true that its not been said to not use it anywhere.
Old    Razzman (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       04-17-2010, 3:50 PM Reply   
I will say this, yeah Malco has a vested interest, especially in protecting their reputation and the company. If their stuff didn't work or ruined vinyl they wouldn't still be around. They've been making auto detailing products for something like 50+ years. hell i remember in the late 70's my dad had a detail guy in the body shop and all they used was Malco products clear up until he sold in the 90's. I would say a VERY large portion of detailers, body shops and dealers use Malco. I'll be that many who've taken their boats in for service have Malco products used on it in fact.
Old    Razzman (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       04-17-2010, 3:51 PM Reply   
Oh yeah I use Babe's too ... and Malco
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-18-2010, 9:31 AM Reply   
I am surprised no one has mentioned Exquisite Vinyl cleaner.....
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       04-18-2010, 1:11 PM Reply   
^ More of a cleaner than offering UV protection.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-18-2010, 3:21 PM Reply   
True.... Well for protection, I use Babes regularly and 303 once a month.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       04-18-2010, 3:26 PM Reply   
Just admit it, you guys are losing sleep over this.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       04-18-2010, 4:09 PM Reply   
All I can say is WOW! Babe's is the best I have ever used. I had a stain on one of the seats that I tried every "safe" product I could find. I used the Babe's seat cleaner, and after just a minute of scrubbing, it was clean. It really was that easy.

I followed up with the Babe's Seat Saver, It was very nice to work with, and smelled great too! The seats were totally dry after about 10 min, but they are extremely soft. 303 does a great job of protecting my seats, but I just didn't like how slippery they got. What a difference between 303 and Babes.

I'm definitely recommending the Babe's line of products.

I'd also like to say thank you to RJ at DTH inboards. DTHinboards.com He actually came to my house to show me how everything works. He was very friendly, and informative. On a side note, he gave me some Collinite wax to try. I had just purchased some Meguirers Flagship wax. We were getting ready to wax the boat when he got there. After seeing how great the Collinite is, I took the Flagship was back to the store. You can actually use this stuff on your windows, plastic, and rubbrail. It goes on, and comes off easy, and leaves no chalky residue. This is the stuff I've been looking for.

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