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Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2010, 6:17 AM Reply   
Began work on some additions for this year,

Here is last years build : http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/672900.html?1240599090

This is the list for this year:

- Upgrade Ballast System
- Install Perfect Pass
- Add Bow Cleat
- Relocate secondary battery and SurePower isolator
- Replace Bilge Pump
- Replace Depth Finder
- Run larger gauge power line from batteries to fuse panel under dash
- Media blast and powder coat vents and pylon bezel


Ballast
================
Last season we had a set of V-drive sacs, a cheap ski locker sac, and a bow sac. The ski and bow were filled manually, while the v-drive sacs were filled but the stock pump system, one 800 Tsunami to fill both and one to empty both...boo

So its time for a well needed upgrade. Went through a bunch of designs and decided on sticking with aerator pumps. The bang for the buck is just too hard to pass up. I know everyone swears by jabscos but i still havent been sold on the cost and cost to replace.

So here is the plan

(2) 750's in the rear compartments


(1) V-drive sac in the ski locker


(1) Bow sac



Here is the layout


and the connection diagram
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2010, 6:46 AM Reply   
First thing was to work on the fill manifolds

Here is the ski locker before cutting down pump inlets and chopping down thru hull


Here is the rear manifold using existing stock brackets.
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-23-2010, 7:29 AM Reply   
Sweet project. Two considerations that I see. The first is that your flow going into the sacks through a 1inch line is going to be greater than your overflow exiting through a 3/4 inch line. Never a problem unless someone forgets to turn the pumps off once the bags are full. The bags could overfill and burst. This is very unlikely however. The second thing is that the manifolds you are using are the same size as the diameter of the pumps. This will slow down your fill time because only so much water can flow through a one inch tube. Probably not an issue but I could see the pumps competing for the same water. The first pump will probably fill faster than the second.

Good luck with your install. You'll love that extra weight. Do you know how much weight you'll actually be able to fit into that bow sack?
Old    Matt Foell (vr6mole)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2010, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mofreestyle View Post
The first is that your flow going into the sacks through a 1inch line is going to be greater than your overflow exiting through a 3/4 inch line. Never a problem unless someone forgets to turn the pumps off once the bags are full. The bags could overfill and burst. This is very unlikely however.?
3/4 has a flow rating of 2200 GPH

1 inch is ~3400 GPH

a 1200 pump with a 3/4 vent will be fine
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-23-2010, 7:55 AM Reply   
Thanks Mark, i have considered both those.

As for bursting the bags it really isnt possible, even in a ideal work that the pumps could actually pump 1200GPH it couldnt exceed the flow rate of a 3/4" dia hose. Also there is going to be a head loss as well with the pumps. With a 3' head flow drops to ~900GPH with the 1200 pumps.

As for the starvation issue the flow rates of 1" dia should be able to sufficiently feed both pump and the difference in fill rate should be very marginal if any.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-24-2010, 5:13 AM Reply   
FYI link is broken for last years build : http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...tml?1240599090
Old    Shredtastic (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-24-2010, 8:50 AM Reply   
How come you are using a v-drive sac in the ski locker and not the rear seat sac or a custom sac? You wont be able to fill the v-drive sac to the full 400lbs. Im guessing my locker sac holds ~800lbs and that is ideal. With 750's in the back youre going to have twice as much weight back there as you did before.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-24-2010, 8:55 AM Reply   
Well we had the vdrive sacs, and we wont be filling the 750's all the way except for surfing. We played with weighting last season and it dialed in well. If we decide we want more ski locker weight we can just swap it in.
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-24-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   
Great looking install. Would it be possible to compile a list of the part numbers used?

thank you!
Old    Tony Medaglia (h2ohangtime)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-24-2010, 5:46 PM Reply   
Ryan, I'm not really up to speed on ballast systems, but I was wondering why your locker and bow bags have check valves on the way out, but your rear bags don't. Why is this?
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-25-2010, 5:29 AM Reply   
Tony thats actually a good question. The reasoning behind that is the way the joins are going to be setup on the rear sacs. Going to loop the vent over the exhaust line, and with diameter drop we are expecting to not need a check valve. Going to test w/o check valve, if it doesnt work we will add on to each side of the rear vents.
Old    Tony Medaglia (h2ohangtime)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-25-2010, 7:00 AM Reply   
Cool, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. I'm going to PM you about another (unrelated) question...
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-29-2010, 6:42 AM Reply   
Received a few things in the mail over the weekend

Tamiya R/C Battery connectors used for quick connectors for the pumps



1" 90 thru hulls for empty lines



In-line fuses for relocating SurePower and secondary battery



and a Attwood popup cleat for the bow.

Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-29-2010, 6:53 AM Reply   
Perfect pass is installed

Had to cut dash to accept new gauge.





Servo and throttle cable installed



paddle wheel installed



Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-29-2010, 6:58 AM Reply   
Expanded the existing 3/4" Thru hull to 1" and cut another in the ski locker.



for ski locker had to take the thru hull to my buddies machine shop and have it trimmed down to get clearance for pumps



While we were having so much fun cutting all the holes into the hull added another thru hull on the starboard side, so bow bag empty pumps will have their own exits



Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-29-2010, 7:04 AM Reply   
Installed the bow pop up cleat last night, this will make things much easier for tying up at our slip and for anchoring from bow







this was actually a PITA to get a wrench back there, once we removed the back rest cushions, it gave way to a small access cutout. The only way to get to the bolt was to remove the lift ring. Here is a pic of everything back in their place.

Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-29-2010, 7:16 AM Reply   
started plumbing the bow sac. The trident helix tubing is great, just had to use a heat gun to coerce it on the the fittings





Port side, used existing thru hull that was for the glove box cooler drain. Since the thru hull is lower than the other ones we looped the empty line up so the bow sac wouldnt have the ability to empty during surfing.



Starboard empty



Old    Shredtastic (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-29-2010, 3:22 PM Reply   
Be careful with that helix tubing, the stuff cracks pretty easily. Both of my vent tubes on my locker sacs cracked in about a year.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-29-2010, 4:43 PM Reply   
really? there is helix tube from factory that is still fine. The trident stuff is a pvc helix and seems super durable and un-kinkable. What kind did you get?
Old    Shredtastic (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-29-2010, 7:31 PM Reply   
yeah I thought the same thing. I think it is because the vent hoses in the back compartments move around so much. Both cracked right where they went on the barb of the outlet. It just made me nervous to have them around my stereo and electrical stuff in the front. I keep checking those and they seem ok.
Old    Darian Braun (dtrain125)      Join Date: Feb 2006       03-31-2010, 8:51 PM Reply   
Nice project, I am doing much of the same things to my 2000 SAN. In the pictures from last years thread, where does the black wire that was beside the port hard tank hook to? Mine is just laying under the motor. http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...921/675004.jpg
Thanks.
Old    Shredtastic (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-31-2010, 10:02 PM Reply   
That looks like a ground to me.
Old    Matt Foell (vr6mole)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-01-2010, 4:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by seth View Post
That looks like a ground to me.
Correct, It grounds to the starter motor.
Old    daniel lockett (dlockett99)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2010, 12:12 PM Reply   
Ryan, Great looking boat and work. I have the same boat. I am curious about how you will wire in all the pumps so that you can use the stock keypad to fill/empty. I tried running just 2 pumps off of one breaker and it will trip every once in awhile.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-02-2010, 9:22 PM Reply   
So we were busy last night and all day today.

Installed switches on side panel









enlarged stern ballast empty thru hulls from 3/4 to 1"



Installed new amp



relocated battery and surepower, ran and secured all the wiring, finished the ballast plumbing, and started putting the interior back in. because it got dark these are the only pics i have, i'll take more of the final product tomorrow. Going to finish up a few things and we are going boarding...WOOT!!!!











Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-02-2010, 9:27 PM Reply   
daniel, i'm sure my pictures answered you question, not using the original switches, all new mounted on starboard panel
Old    daniel lockett (dlockett99)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-03-2010, 4:40 AM Reply   
Thanks, Boat looks great, You really did it right. Let us know how the wake is with all that weight!
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-04-2010, 7:01 PM Reply   
Where did u find the paddle wheel perfectpass and what was the pricing? On the perfect pass website I only see the stargazer system available. I have an 01 super air also and will be installing. CAn u elaborate on the guage installation? U said it was too large for the factory hole?
Old    Matt Foell (vr6mole)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-04-2010, 7:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
Where did u find the paddle wheel perfectpass and what was the pricing? On the perfect pass website I only see the stargazer system available. I have an 01 super air also and will be installing. CAn u elaborate on the guage installation? U said it was too large for the factory hole?
We bought the module from a member on here and then pieced the rest of it. Ended up saving quite a bit of money that way. We got all of the parts from Skier to Skier. dave@skiertoskier.com

Our dash had the Nautique logo in the center between the speedo and tach and figured it was just a dummy panel but it ended up being a sticker so Ryan had to dremel a hole for it to fit.

You could just replace the stock speedo if you don't want to do cutting.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-05-2010, 5:24 PM Reply   
Yea I will prolly do that, I dont really want the stargazer system since I do alot of riding on the river as well and I heard its not very accurate in current. What was the total price on the ballast setup if you dont mind me asking? Im thinking I may follow your diagram and thread and set it up the same since I was planning on the exact same sacs and placement you decided to go with with the exception of a larger ski locker sack.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-05-2010, 6:55 PM Reply   
Mason i will post a parts list and you can price it out yourself, but obviously the bags are half of the cost.
Old    TRDon (trdon)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-11-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
I mimicked your setup to a T and I had some self filling issues. The only difference I have is I kept my scoop through hulls, except I cut the scoops off and kept the base. Have you had any issues at all?
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       04-12-2010, 6:01 AM Reply   
lots of good information in here
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-12-2010, 6:11 AM Reply   
Great job! .... looks amazing
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-14-2010, 6:51 AM Reply   
im not brave enough to cut thru my hull
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-14-2010, 7:11 AM Reply   
Damn dude your gonna have 3k in ballast if those sacks fill to full. I'm interested to see the wake with that much weight.

Excellent job on redoing this one your skills show.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-14-2010, 12:10 PM Reply   
I will get final pics and wake pics up soon, still waiting on a back ordered switch. Did do a full pulls last week, the fill worked great, but did notice it wouldnt be a bad idea to run check valves on the vdrive vents for more efficiency. Will put them on this week and i'll snap some pictures

Perfect pass worked perfect right out of the box, have only used it twice now, but dont know how we lived without it already

Pete, we were very nervous to cut holes in the hull, but once you do you first one and get everything glued in all that anxiety goes away. When i was all said and done, we drilled 2 new holes and enlarged 3.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-15-2010, 6:25 AM Reply   
updated schematics:



Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-15-2010, 6:35 AM Reply   
monoprice rcas?
Old    Newty (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       04-15-2010, 6:39 AM Reply   
Couple of q's for you Ryan,
When you cut down the through hull did you have any problems with the threads seating in the valve?
Where would one find that 4 switch panel you put it your dash.

Great mods btw. Looks neat and clean.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-15-2010, 7:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
monoprice rcas?
yup
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-15-2010, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by newty View Post
Couple of q's for you Ryan,
When you cut down the through hull did you have any problems with the threads seating in the valve?
Where would one find that 4 switch panel you put it your dash.

Great mods btw. Looks neat and clean.
after cutting the thru hull i had to de-bur and grind it a little, but after that it threaded on perfect.

as for the switch panel, the switches are Carling rockers, and the bezel can be found at west marine (2 center and 2 ends) http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...classNum=14711
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       04-15-2010, 8:31 AM Reply   
The ski locker will auto-fill some if the valve is open since this sits lowest below the water line. I knew this during construction, thus the positioning of the ball valve, which i can reach from drivers seat. We fill the ski locker bag all the way every time so just need to close when emptying or cruising. Vdrive sacs are higher and you dont see this.
Old    Newty (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       04-15-2010, 8:32 AM Reply   
Perfect! Thanks brutha.
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-15-2010, 2:56 PM Reply   
Those carling bezels can be purchased from genuinedealz on ebay for under $2 shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mount...r#ht_773wt_786
Old    Kona (konaking)      Join Date: Mar 2008       04-16-2010, 6:02 AM Reply   
Strong work
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-23-2010, 8:53 PM Reply   
wake pics? How many feet of tubing did you need total?
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-26-2010, 7:48 AM Reply   
I bought 20' of 1" when I did my bags and had about 4' left over. I only did 2 rear sacs.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-23-2010, 6:48 PM Reply   
Why the shut off valves on the overflow lines? Also, will this fill while underway if you don't shut off the intake?
Old    Matt Foell (vr6mole)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-24-2010, 4:18 AM Reply   
We were going to add a shut off valve on the surf side rear bag so we could fill it completely and not have any be forced out but never actually installed it. We can get the bag to fill and only lose a little bit of water under acceleration.

Rear bags do not autofill but the ski locker does due to it being below the waterline.

The only valve we have to keep closed is the one in the ski locker when we don't want it to fill.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-28-2010, 5:21 PM Reply   
Any estimate on the total feet of hose you used?
Old    Matt (spyderman)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-01-2010, 8:32 AM Reply   
Fantastic post!!!

A simple question on the aerator pumps. These MUST be below the water line to prime and work correct?

Thanks!
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-01-2010, 8:34 AM Reply   
John we ordered 50' of 3/4 and 1"
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-01-2010, 8:35 AM Reply   
Matt, yes the pumps must be below the water line
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-06-2010, 7:59 PM Reply   
Are two pumps on the bow sac a must?
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-06-2010, 8:30 PM Reply   
Jon, do u mean 2 empty pumps? I think just because the orientation of the fingers of the bow sac having only one empty pump might not be able to remove all the water in the opposite finger.
Old    Nick T (absolutezero)      Join Date: Sep 2009       07-06-2010, 7:35 PM Reply   
How significant is the change in wake with the new sacks?
Old    Nick T (absolutezero)      Join Date: Sep 2009       07-06-2010, 7:38 PM Reply   
At this point is there anything you wish you would have done differently?
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       07-08-2010, 7:40 AM Reply   
Sorry since the weather has been so nice i havent completed this thread. The wake came out awesome! II would not change one think about the wake. Iwill ry to g some pics. As for the design there really isnt anything i would change. For some reason the starbord vdrive empty pump doesnt always work w/o pulling on the bag, but it is probably just binding up somewhere. 1 last thing that didnt work out, is the R/C pump connectors, they will rot out so just used butt connectors and tape. I'll try to finish tis thread soon.
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-27-2011, 8:37 AM Reply   
So after a season the setup worked great, with on exception; the pump for the port vdrive locker sack was not priming. i figured there was some type of starvation happening with the rear manifold i made. So this year decided to make a revision. More holes in the boat!

So here is the latest version:





Here is the new thru-hull for rear port pump:





and some pics of vent and empty connections i never posted b4:




Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-27-2011, 8:56 AM Reply   
I'm using the 800 GPH Tsunamis and went with individual 3/4" thru hulls for each intake pump and have had no priming issues so far.

I also used these fittings from Flow Rite to eliminate the 90s coming off of the pumps in all but one pumps (Starboard bow sac drain) and it gives you a quick disconnect:
https://www.flow-rite.com/product/ad...ht-pipe-thread

Those won't work on the 1200 though.

Before I was getting 12-13 minute fill times on the 750s. We will see if the lack of 90s improves fill time any.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-27-2011, 9:01 AM Reply   
Oh, are the ball valves on your vent/drain to keep the bags from emptying? I'm assuming that because some of your thru hulls are really low. You may have already considered this but but you could eliminate those by putting in a vented loop and mounting it higher than the top of the bag. It might have a little bit of an affect on your drain times but would save you the time/effort of opening and closing the valves.
Old    Matt Foell (vr6mole)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-27-2011, 10:15 AM Reply   
Hey Jeff, we just have the ball valve on the surf side so that we can really expand the bag to get as much weight as possible when we surf.

Normally the bag fills up "most of the way" and water starts to come out through the drain.
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2011, 3:39 PM Reply   
where's the wake pics??? can't get enough slammed wake pics from the super sport/super air!
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-29-2011, 7:22 PM Reply   
here you go this is my 01 210 with about 2500 lbs. Normally I run about 3300 but the guy in the pic had never ridden a loaded down wakeboat and was a little nervous about all that weight. I think he is like 6 foot 1. I normally run this
750x2 in each rear compartment
1100 Supra gravity games sack as full as it will get in the locker
650(?) Integrated bow sack
and another 400 sack in the nose
total the way I fill it is usually close to 3200 lbs
I ran the same setup as this guy and pretty much followed his diagram.
All the sacks fill in about 6 minutes
Attached Images
 
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-29-2011, 8:36 PM Reply   
Damn Ryan nice job.How did your engine compartment panels turn out?
Old    Kyle P (wakeboard_pittsburgh)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-01-2011, 7:04 AM Reply   
Here is a pic of the wake from the side. Super steep and large.

Old    Kyle P (wakeboard_pittsburgh)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-01-2011, 7:06 AM Reply   
One more of just the boat -

Old    John Brine (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-01-2011, 8:37 PM Reply   
I just bought a 2003 SAN LE and will be doing a lot of similiar mods to the ballast.

Just read through your thread from last year. Really wish I had the garage to take everything apart like you did for the interior to redo the crappy speakers and clean the crap out of everything. Everything you have done is so clean! Love it just cant wait to do similar projects myself.
Old     (thedude)      Join Date: Jul 2010       02-20-2012, 10:10 AM Reply   
Sorry to bring up an older thread, but what prop do you use with all that weight?
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-20-2012, 11:07 AM Reply   
Acme 644 is what his profile says.

Ryan- Did you have to cut the cooler out on the starboard side of the bow?
Old    John Brine (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-20-2012, 11:59 AM Reply   
I cut that thing out about two weeks ago. That stuck major. Good luck with it! I used a dremel and way too much force...
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-20-2012, 12:13 PM Reply   
something tells me that didn't end well, John...
Old    John Brine (mnwakerider)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-20-2012, 12:17 PM Reply   
I was able to get it out, but my hands look like I had a cutting obsession... In my 03, there was foam that stabilized the back of the cooler to the interior wall of the seat base. I had to cut that out in 6'' square sections till I just ended up breaking it all out and then cleaned it up....

yes, it sucked...
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-20-2012, 12:32 PM Reply   
Brett your right we use a 644 Acme, it made a big difference. As for a bow cooler, in a 2001 there is no cooler up front, so now cutting needed.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-20-2012, 12:32 PM Reply   
I know this is rather off topic but you guys are discussing your nautiques. Are there any major differences in the SAN 210's from 02 to 05 besides the rainbow tower in 04? I used to hate the SAN's but as I've gotten older I think they are SHARP!! Thanks!

Chase
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-20-2012, 3:25 PM Reply   
I would be concerned about that cleat up front. From the pic it doesn't look like you glassed in any new wood underneath. Even if not glassing it in I'd at least want some wood or an aluminum plate underneath to spread the load and clamping force, and prevent damage from horizontal force. Ballast setup looks killer!
Old    Ryan (liquiddiet)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-20-2012, 3:39 PM Reply   
The front cleat is actually reinforced with a aluminum plate actually, its just not in the pic

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