Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-19-2010, 1:15 PM Reply   
first off an apology Brian (factorykitted) for hi-jacking his thread. i know better and i'm sorry.

just when i think i have a handle on this stuff, i read something and it raises questions or i second guess myself.

specifically what i'm trying to understand is what difference does it make if you recharge your stereo bank with 1.25A or 10A+ as long as they are being fully recharged before their next use?

i understand the importance of a charger that is "smart" or has different stages of it's routine, but why is it important that the bulk charge be at a high amperage versus on the lower side?
Old    Cory McLean (kikitlo)      Join Date: Jul 2005       02-19-2010, 1:31 PM Reply   
Pro's please chime in if I'm wrong,

My understanding is if you are the type of person who does a lot of boating on back to back days, overnight you may not be able to charge your batteries fast enough by the next morning. A slow steady charge of 1.25A will get you there, it will just take longer. Hence the 10A. It will get the batteries charged faster then hold them there with a lower amperage.

Hope I got that correct and I'm not just blowin smoke.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-19-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
Bruce,

The really top notch charger manufacturers put it something like this.

A deep cycle battery needs a charger with enough current capacity to chemically excite it to properly desulfate and condition. Where as a maintenance-only charger cannot effectively do this. So when just using a tender (1.25A) your batteries will suffer a slow but certain decline like a person with clogged arteries from a sedentary lifestyle.

Using a tender on a starting battery on an ATV, UTV, motorcycle or rarely used third car is fine because these batteries are never put into storage in a depleted state and are not intended to deep cycle.

Also, the deep cycle battery manufacturers typically recommend a charger with a total current capacity of 10 to 15 percent of the total battery(s) amp/hour rating.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-19-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
Ok, battery basics:
A battery has two main parts: the liquid(sulfer and water) and the solid(lead plates). As a battery discharges, the sulfer in the liquid comes out of solution and sticks to the lead plates. This is called sulfation.

The longer you leave a battery in sulfation, the more time it has for the sulfer to stay stuck to the plates. So, you want to charge fast to reduce sulfation. But, you don't want to overcharge or you'll boil the sulfer out of the liquid.

If you don't fully charge a battery before you use it next, there will be sulfates left on the plates and they'll stay stuck there permenantly. Once the plates get enough permenantly stuck sulfer deposits, it won't be able to charge any more.

Make sense?
Old    Clint (ttuclint)      Join Date: Sep 2003       02-19-2010, 2:15 PM Reply   
Why is everyone all the sudden going crazy over batteries and charging systems ? I have never seen this much chatter over this before.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-19-2010, 2:21 PM Reply   
Clint, because it is the winter and it is project time. It really is amazing how many people neglect the charging system in their boat. Not having it setup correctly will cause a lot of unneeded pain, frustration and money. If you invest a little time and money initially it will save you a lot of money in the long run.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-19-2010, 3:03 PM Reply   
hey thanks for the replies that all makes total sense to me.

it raises another question in my application though.

if i were to pickup a new higher amp smart charger, one that was a two-bank and somewhere between 5-10A per bank let's say, would i need to worry about not having a manual switch inline between the 1314 and my two banks?

i guess my question is, at what point is the 1314 doing you a dis-service with a multi-bank charger? 11.X volts on the primary battery with the stereo bank drained and a low Amp output charger?

it almost gets to the point of heck, screw it and removing the stereo bank off the boat's alternator/charging system altogether and just recharging it off the water with AC. i mean, heck, for the price of an alternator and fancy pants charging system, you could add a couple more batteries and a sweet charger and be done with it.
Old    Dave Gonyea (gonyeasmarinecom)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-19-2010, 3:33 PM Reply   
Hey guys Tuneman has a good grip on this one but
from the tech corner, start batteries are used for high amp low amp hour cycles. deep cycle for longer residual power (stereos at high db levels)
called house batts and the rate of charge are different for each batt and type agm,jelcell ect.
large banks of house batteries need to be topped off fully "state of charge". batts also are rated
on how many times they cycle ie full charge to dead before replacement. A "smart" charger sees the type and amp recomendation protocol before it
goes into "float" topped off ok.
Alternators are just to keep the battery "maintained to draw levels put upon it"
And say a 100amp alt thats not R.M.S thats max output ie dead alt. batts/alt/isolator/residual charger and dont forget the weakest link in an electrical chain is the wiring and termination.
ta ta
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-22-2010, 7:59 AM Reply   
I've used this method for years now. from Mikeski.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/Boat_Battery_Diagram-262940.pdf


I dont' use the c100 but something similar ( VSR on one boat, and the surepower on my other boat). There are a few very minor potential flaws, but my batteries lasted close to 5 years using this method on sytems ranging from 2k-3k RMS.

I'm down south and live on a lake, I'm out close to year round every weekend.

On holiday weekends I woudl use a larger charger to rbing the batteries up daily.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-22-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
Adam, that diagram confuses the hell out of me! I have been reading all the recent threads on batteries and I'm now more confused than ever. I had a battery tender on the Deep Cycle battery I bought late last year after my orginal starter failed just to get me thorugh the season, but over the weekend I took the tender off b/c of some of the remarks made about those!
Old    Scott Schultz (scott76310)      Join Date: Sep 2009       02-22-2010, 9:05 AM Reply   
Don't really understand the Mikeski method but it isn't a dual bank charger. Is the switch used to charge one battery and then the other or both at the same time. If it is both then I don't really see why the switch would be needed.

Bruce Mac, I think I want to do the same thing as you. Use a Surepower 1314 (voltage sensing, combining relay) and keep the batteries isolated for charging with a dual bank charger. I am trying to figure out a way to disable the 1314 while charging. David E M recommended using a switch but I would like to keep it totally automatic with no switches. I still think using an AC relay tied into the ground wire of the 1314 would be perfect. When the relay receives AC voltage from plugging the charger in, it disconnects the ground to the 1314 which would disable it. David E M said this wouldn't work but was referring to a DC relay and I am speaking specifically of an AC relay. I would really prefer this because I can plug my boat in without even removing the cover or getting in the boat so I don't want to ad a switch not to mention why would buying and adding a switch be better than buying a relay. Plus the relay could be mounted anywhere but the switch would have to be mounted in a place easily accessible which might complicate the installation.
Now I just need to find one of these relays and I wonder if it will be safe to mount inside the engine compartment.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-22-2010, 2:38 PM Reply   
Adam R, I'll do your electrical if you come align my engine.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-22-2010, 2:52 PM Reply   
Dual bank charging is ideal...no doubt about that, but in 10 years of boat ownership and 4 boats, I have never used one.

I'm averaging right at a 5 year life span on my batteries. that's longer than in my daily driver car, lol.

Mikeski's syetem is very cost effective and gets the job done.

Like most my boat is on the charger when it's not in use.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-22-2010, 3:00 PM Reply   
I use a 6 amp battery maintainer on my wakebaord boat , and the 1.25 amp battery tender on my pontoon boat ( also has 6v golf carts) I'll tell you in 5 years if I have any issues with increased sulfation like David EM mentions in his second post.

I'm one year in and the batteries still taking a full charge.

I have a 1k inverter on my pontoon that rus fans, disco ball ( lol) blender, heater, stereo, TV ect...the batt's get abused.
Old    brad (bradcraig78)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-22-2010, 3:24 PM Reply   
In Mikeski diagram what are the batteries negative terminal connecting to? Alternator?
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       02-22-2010, 3:27 PM Reply   
^^^No, grounds are common. it's back to the engine block.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-23-2010, 3:07 PM Reply   
hey adam, got any recent pics of the party barge? you should post up. didn't you pick that up this time last year?

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:41 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us