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Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-20-2010, 9:37 PM Reply   
I saw on one of shredtowns "andrew adams" vimeo acct where there is a guy wanting to share shredtown videos on his site(says it in a bad way by saying he could steal it) but reguardless andrew adams comment surprised me. I mean his crew is pushing it really hard and its fun to watch, but does this not seem cocky? maybe all their publicity is blowing up in their heads. maybe its just me but i feel like that was pretty lame. i guess their just that good now!


Super Stoker says:
yo this is sick but no one can share and promote because of the embed restriction, i could just steal it if i really wanted to but id rather embed it so i can promote for you guys, just saying, peace homies keep up the good work
Reply to this comment

Andrew Adams says:
make your own videos man. come on. we dont need your help promoting our stuff. dont want any of our videos goin up on your site.
Old    david (dnp33)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-20-2010, 10:01 PM Reply   
i don't think its cocky.
they make their own video's and put alot of effort into promoting themselves. if somebody else wants to put the video's up on their website, they should ask them personally, not make a comment about stealing it.
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-20-2010, 10:52 PM Reply   
i know they make their own video's but the fact that they dont want anyone helping promote or advertise them? i guess its just me but i feel like thats kinda lame. you dont see any of real wakeboarders sayin no you cant use my video on your site
Old    pierre dandrimont (pierem)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-21-2010, 3:25 AM Reply   
Yeah i don't get it either. It's just giving them more promotion, instead of being on only one website they got 2 ...
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-21-2010, 4:48 AM Reply   
I think it sounds lame, although I'm also not a fan of the whole "shredtown" persona
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-21-2010, 5:48 AM Reply   
at least some people agree
Old    Adam Holdsworth (holdsworth)      Join Date: Jan 2010       02-21-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
...Shredtown never really "promoted" their stuff. They made their videos, posted them on a blog, and didn't do much else. Everyone stumbled on their videos of them just going out and doing new stuff of their own style. They don't need help promoting because most people go to their website to see who they are and what they do. Word spreads fast on the internet, and Shredtown blew up. Almost everyone knows of Shredtown now, they don't need it.

About the comment, I don't really blame him for saying that after the guy told him he "could steal it if he wanted to." Andrew told him to go create his own videos because that's what they did. They didn't post up videos of everyone else having fun and doing their own thing. If this guy wants sick wake/winch vids on his site, just go out and do it yourself in your own new way to promote the sport and yourself if you do things right and people.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-21-2010, 7:36 AM Reply   
^ They posted links on here usually with "NEW VIDEO" or something.... not much of a promotion but still was something

Their stuff is cool but that dialog has a certain amount of ego hidden in it I think
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-21-2010, 1:19 PM Reply   
Wow.

Thanks for your input guys... haha.

I'm not speaking for shredtown, Andrew makes his own decisions, as do Chris and Davis, but when it comes down to it, and you are trying to make a living off of the videos that you make, it really does make a difference to take care of things yourself, and keep them fairly exclusive. They are not a bunch of cocky kids, they are a bunch of lake rats just like y'all.

Take it for what it's worth, but they love what they do, and are just trying to make sure that they can get enough cash to pay their weekly rent at their ghetto apartment and keep wakeboarding. They are trying to live a dream, and are by no means cocky. They would love for people to start making their own videos as well because that means that there is going to be more progression and the sport is going to get bigger! Think about the way things are said, and that the interweb makes you think about things how you want to hear them.

Keep it real, and keep shredding.

Josh
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-21-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
Nick, posting links on here is pretty much the biggest promotion you can do. If the videos are good, they get a following. Look at Norbi. He started posting his videos on here and now he has blown up on interweb land because his videos are sick and he always has the best riders in them. My favorite part about Norbi's videos is that we never really got to see what pros were doing between video parts and magazine shots. Now we get almost a weekly or biweekly update of pro riders, their new tricks, and how they really like to ride. It brings the pros into the community which we really never had before. Makes them seem just like us (except that their job is to take 3 sets a day) in that sense. Just normal people living their lives.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       02-21-2010, 1:36 PM Reply   
I feel like I'm watching two little kids fight. Super Stoker should be a little more professional and polite if he wants to use someone else's videos for his site. Andrew could have taken the high road and declined the offer in a nicer noncocky way.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-21-2010, 1:40 PM Reply   
Adam said "Shredtown never really "promoted" their stuff"

I said, "They posted links on here usually with "NEW VIDEO" or something"

... so yes I understand in the niche world of wakeboarding WW is about all people have... and I don't think their initial intention was to become "famous" in the wakeboarding world... if that was the case they would have been on here everyday hyping this and that and getting promotion through means other than wakeworld... which they never did, which I think is awesome.

Most of their new vids links are posted by others, not the members

Just a bunch of guys doing what they love and then sharing it with us... it paid off for them, which again I think is awesome.

... if you compare the amount of views they've gotten with almost no promotion besides an initial spark and fans getting their back... especially now with people wanting to embed their vids and then saying "no", to me shows hardly any promoting.



looking at Norbi, I think he has a different M.O... he isn't doing the riding, he is filming and making videos which have a high chance of getting the footage taken for a full feature length vid resulting in money... I'm sure he loves filming and editing but I also think the idea of a big ol' paycheck is some of his motivation where shredtown just did what they loved and blew up from that.... with minimal promotion.
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-21-2010, 6:33 PM Reply   
Yeah either way my last statement is are they good? Yes, but was the comment and not wanting to let peolpe use their video out of hand? Yes! I was just disappointed to see them act that way. I understand if they were selling their videos, but just a normal guy wanting to help promote or show off what he loves through them(aka their videos) is no way to act. Either way ill continue to check on them and see what next big thing they do, but i still think it was a move, so as a perosn prob wouldnt like him, what they are doing, very creative and cool
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-21-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
mayne Johnny Reason, I hope you get a chance to meet them at some point. Even though that came across as a whack comment, they are awesome dudes, who are passionate about the sport and everything in it, and are focused on making it a more legitimate board sport in the future. They are grassroots, and are loyal to people who take care of them like slingy. I'm not saying this in a condescending way, I just hope they have a chance to personally change your mind cause they are so down to earth, and have worked hard for everything they've got.
Old    Eli Taylor (lsrider134)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-21-2010, 7:15 PM Reply   
Basically, most of the "adults" here on this discussion are men who like to live a simple life of just Wakeboarding and enjoying the sport. Most men you meet in this industry could care less for petty talk like this. I think the real question to ask is, whose business is this to argue? If Andrew had said nothing back to the comment, this irrelevant and unworthy topic of character would never have come up. Most of you don't know them and what exactly they represent and if they are "worthy" to stand up for the business part of the Wakeboarding industry that they are representing THEMSELVES. It is their choice to decide what they are promoting and how, when, and where it is promoted. I'm guessing some of you need to take some/or more marketing classes to understand Andrew's purpose and respect it regardless of your point of view.

To sum it up, this isn't about YOU and your "feelings" this is about a much larger picture, a business within the wakeboarding industry, just like all other pro riders deal with day to day. This discussion is either making many of you guys feel worthy of arguing to argue or doing out of pure boredom. So, please end this discussion and pick a relevant topic more worthy of your time.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-21-2010, 7:44 PM Reply   
I didn't see anything wrong with his comment considering the stupid "I could steal it" comment to which he was responding. I don't think Adam was trying to say that Shred Town doesn't need any promotion. I think he was saying that he'd rather not have any promotion from a guy that goes around threatening to steal their video if they don't make it available for free.

I also sort of see what they're trying to accomplish by no longer "sharing" their videos for free. They create a product that is valuable, so they're trying to leverage that to get people coming to their own website so that they can control the content and promote their sponsors as they see fit. If they feel that making the videos available in that way is the best way to promote themselves, then that's their decision to make.
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-21-2010, 8:24 PM Reply   
well eli if wakeworld wasnt like this discussion, then what would it be? thats what wakeworld has turned to as sad as it is! and whats funny is how on this site, everyone just argues with anyone and everything. gotta love it
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-21-2010, 8:33 PM Reply   
Johnny, I just hope you see where I'm coming from. Everyone deserves a second chance, and I hope you give Andrew one.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-21-2010, 8:41 PM Reply   
"eli if wakeworld wasnt like this discussion, then what would it be? thats what wakeworld has turned to as sad as it is!"

So you are saying that you are what is wrong with wakeworld, right? Couldn't agree more. Shredtown is sick, they don't have to put up with people threatening to steal there videos, and they are "that good". If you want some cred in this argument post up one of your edits and give it away for free or gtfo.
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-22-2010, 5:35 AM Reply   
Well seeing as I dont make videos, its hard to post them. I just enjoy watching other peoples videos. Yeah i guess people like me(and you) and many others are always hating on something(Andrews comment in this case). Look at the Ride 4 Relief post, something extremely generous that had so many people hating on it. And Josh, its not that I hate Andrew now or anything, I just thought it was out of line. I understand the first comment was wrong by saying he could steal it, but he shouldnt have came back like that. Seems low class and if other people, not wakeworlders saw it just on vimeo, could have a bad vibe from it ya know. I wouldnt want people reading that if it was my video and I was starting to blow up. And gangstar, yeah they are good, but not "that good" have you seen their boat sets? Im not any better but i dont claim to be "that good". They are ball-zee is all they come down too. Yeah they have a decent bag of tricks, but take any REAL pro out there with them and they cant compete. Most pro's just wouldnt take the risk alot of Shredtown does.
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 6:12 AM Reply   
Word on that, they're not spectacular behind the boat, 7's back fives, tanny to blinds, etc. but you have to remember something that you've been taught about life. Risk equals reward. Unless your a heroin addict taking the risk with a dirty needle, for the most part, the bigger the risk, the bigger the reward, and thats respected. I'm telling you from knowing them, the REAL pros, maybe not you, but the REAL pros, respect what they do, and love the progression that they are helping wakeboarding see. Just saying.
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-22-2010, 6:27 AM Reply   
No i agreee with ya Josh, risk does equal reward, and I believe the pros do like them(Shane,Jimmy,Eric riding with them in one video) Either way this got blown up in kind of the wrong direction, Im not completely hating on Shredtown, they are good winchers, but the vibe I got from the comment make me wonder. I feel like he could have handled it differently, so now i look at his as "cocky" and sloppy by approaching it the way that he did. But liek ive said in the previous post, i still like Shredtowns doings.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-22-2010, 6:42 AM Reply   
They recently went from a blog to a website. Websites cost money, # of website hits = more market value = more industry help/advertising/sponsorship.

Why is embedding so important? People can just post links up to the website, which drives more people to the Shredtown website, not to whomever's is wanting to embed the video.

IMO, we're going to see a lot more of this. Pretty sure Chad Sharpe's is the same way. There are literal sites that only post/embed other people's videos.
Example:
http://www.wakeboardeurope.com/

If you're making the vids, and have a website, you want people to watch it on YOUR website. Pretty understandable.
Old    Matthew Spencer (canadian_waterboy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       02-22-2010, 6:51 AM Reply   
If i watch a sick embedded video on a 2nd party website, and the end credits say shredtown.blogspot.com, i'm going to visit their website to try and check out their other videos. I think it's pretty naive of them to consider embedding videos as stealing... it's FREE promotion.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2010, 7:38 AM Reply   
I'm sure Andrew and his homies are sittin back with a cold one laughing hard at this thread... cuz the sh*ts making me laugh no doubt
Old    D-NASTY (jrich)      Join Date: Oct 2009       02-22-2010, 7:42 AM Reply   
People argue back and forth on almost every forum on the web. Its no different here. I dont see anything wrong with what Andrew said. They make the videos themselves and if they wanted help promoting them then that is their decision. Nobody wants someone coming on there and robbong their content. (making threats to "steal" the videos). Just goes to show when you have something good, everyone wants their hand in the cookie jar! Keep up the good work shredtown! Forums can sometimes be wack anyways because you have so many people who think they are 10 ft tall and bulletproof behind a keyboard.
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 8:39 AM Reply   
Luker, they are, I talked to Davis last night haha Andrew is en route to Ireland to go and hang out with his lady who is studying abroad so I know that he has more on his mind than a lame little wakeworld thread haha.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-22-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
I think it is very obvious why you wouldn't want to share... their product is the videos. It drives traffic to THEIR website which brings in revenue. Letting someone else put the videos on another site (without doing any work) and cashing in on Shredtown's hard work makes zero sense whatsoever.

If you want to share it, post the link to Shredtowns site.
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-22-2010, 8:59 AM Reply   
This got serious real fast. Probably not a big deal.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2010, 9:00 AM Reply   
Yeah J. Buz... I figured as much. I was glad you guys got hooked up with K. Walton and Sawyer when they came through Bama. Racinelli is a really good friend and lived here for a while with us so I hate we didn't catch up with ya'll. Hit us up when you come back!
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-22-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   

quote:

Letting someone else put the videos on another site (without doing any work) and cashing in on Shredtown's hard work makes zero sense whatsoever.


I have to disagree with that. This is exactly why Shred Town exploded so quickly. They had a good product, but the "if you build it, they will come" business plan doesn't usually work in real life. Their videos were everywhere for free and without that marketing "plan" they would not be where they are right now.

It's kind of like marketing a band. When you're new and nobody has ever heard of you, you're handing out your music for free like crazy hoping to expose people to your music. However, once you get to the Metallica level, you're no longer down with giving the music away free. At some point you have enough momentum that you can make some money selling your music.

So there's no doubt that Shred Town is using a well-known and effective marketing approach. The only question is at what point do you go from the "here, have some for you and your friends" level to the "come here and pay for it" level.
Old    johnny reason (centurion23)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-22-2010, 1:19 PM Reply   
I agree with you David...I feel like they have not hit the next level yet. And yes the reason they did explode was because people were putting their stuff everywhere(they still get the views even though its on another website) and blew up. There is no reason for people @ their level to start protecting their work, they should be wanting to show everyone and helping the sport grow. On a different note, videos havent been so hott lately
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 3:26 PM Reply   
Yeah Luker, they loved Bama, thanks for the hook up on that. I'm trying to get em to go back soon and take advantage of what the south has to offer!
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-22-2010, 3:35 PM Reply   
johnny, they have gotten a custom colourway on boards from Slingshot. When do you think they will qualify to hit that level?
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-22-2010, 3:37 PM Reply   
I was talkin to Andrew Adams at the boat show a couple weeks ago and that guy definately didnt have an ego. Super chill nice guy. Ive met pros with egos that werent very nice but Andrew and the Shredtown guys were like talking to guys in my crew, which was kinda cool. You definately can tell they ride for the same reasons everyone else does, for the love of the sport.
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-22-2010, 3:53 PM Reply   
I'm pretty sure that the joke is on everyone here.

From Shredtown's Twitter account a few minutes ago: @shredtown
Best day of winching in along time! Can't wait to get home and get on Wakeworld!
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 4:09 PM Reply   
I'm tellin you it is haha like Luker said, they're sitting back laughing at the whole situation. If you don't support shredtown, don't sit back and make pointless threads about them, cause like it or not more people are looking at the site cause you made this thread. Haters aren't all bad.

www.shredtown.com
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-22-2010, 4:13 PM Reply   
There's a joke on us because we enjoy discussing interesting wake-related topics. Boy, do I feel like a fool. I'll never do that again!
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 4:21 PM Reply   
haha not saying that in a bad way dave, I love being on here too, or I wouldn't have been a member for almost three years, I'm just saying that by starting a thread like this, it's definitely not hurting shredtown.
Old    Jakob Manhoffer (brent1)      Join Date: Oct 2005       02-22-2010, 4:45 PM Reply   
hahahahahahaha shredtown is takin over the maw fuggin universe!!!!!!!!! AHAHAhahahahahahahaha. Comment was a reaction from the "I could just steal them". Superstoker needed some harshness after that comment. It equals out for sure, super stoker was outta line andrew put em in his place. Go shred!!!!!!!!!!
shredtown.com
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 4:51 PM Reply   
CHCHCH.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-22-2010, 4:53 PM Reply   
"From Shredtown's Twitter account a few minutes ago: @shredtown
Best day of winching in along time! Can't wait to get home and get on Wakeworld!"

That's pretty f'd up. There goes the whole "not having an ego" idea.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-22-2010, 5:01 PM Reply   
Some of you seem kind of quick to jump on these guys for some reason. I'm guessing that they are sincere in saying that can't wait to get home to get on WakeWorld. If there was a thread about me going off on WakeWorld, I'd be thinking the same thing. I'd want to see what else people said about me, be it good, bad or ugly.
Old    Mikel (mikel_j)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-22-2010, 6:44 PM Reply   
I just wanted to add that the some guy from super stoker downloaded (stole) one of my videos from vimeo and posted it under his own youtube account and I DO NOT have the embed restriction on. Not cool but he is just one of many that have stole it. At first I was mad but a wise man told me I should just take it as a compliment.

Stolen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3_wT6scrIM

Legit: http://www.vimeo.com/7422957
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 6:53 PM Reply   
Word, Mikel. Don't know if I ever told you how sick that video was too. I can't wait to see more of y'alls stuff. Keep it TX.
Old    TS (kcrider)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-22-2010, 7:25 PM Reply   
On a positive note, I really liked the ABOUT part of their website. Life without "shred" would suck. I'm living that now. Post OP ACL surgery and it sucks not being able to ride anything. Won't be able to till mid June. Its actually depressing. Cold weather, can't do anything=bored to tears. Plus I really enjoy what they do on their videos. I'm not that ballzy so I really respect what they bring to the sport. Keep on Keeping on shredboys. You have my vote.
Old    Josh Busby (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-22-2010, 7:51 PM Reply   
and to anyone that is losing faith, I talked to Davie, and there are going to be big things in the next month. They had a good winch day today and are taking a trip next week. So keep the stoke and they'll keep bringing the videos! Thanks for the support I know they appreciate it!
Old    Nick Joseph (coyotesexual)      Join Date: Dec 2007       02-22-2010, 7:54 PM Reply   
Im missing something here, shredtown isn't good behind the boat? Everytime I watch them ride behind the boat I am blown away. I think that 7s, back 5s, crow mobes, t2b, and r2b are hard tricks. They have good style, do tricks that I like watching, whinch dope spots, and they are good at rails/ cable. They get me pumped to wakeboard and I think that counts for alot.

(Message edited by Coyotesexual on February 22, 2010)
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       02-22-2010, 8:04 PM Reply   
Dear Mr.Nick Tomsyck,

I just came across your post about me.
and just to clear things up.
I have been making videos for over 5 years now.
I first started doing it because thats how I learned my mistakes on certain tricks. It definitely helped me just like how it helps other people. Its my passion. When Im not wakeboarding I love to film my friends shredding and just helping other people get through their cold winters wherever they might be.
that thing you said about the paycheck is just ridiculous.
Im lucky enough to have my familys full support and with the help of my sponsors here and in europe Im able to go to school fulltime and just wakeboard and film as much as I can.
i consider myself super lucky. and it just puts me down when I see posts like yours completely misjudging me and what I do.
Hope that helped to get a clearer image out there about me and what I do. Im not init for the money obviously Im getting an education in film and I would like to be able to support myself in the future but as of right now Im just doing it because I love to do it and its the second best thing after riding. You never know what the future brings and I just wanna say thanks to all of you for watching.
Old    Ryan Taylor (wakesurf12)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-22-2010, 8:44 PM Reply   
What's wrong for getting a paycheck for what you put a lot of work into?
Old    abner (bradmo42)      Join Date: Jan 2006       02-22-2010, 9:17 PM Reply   
www.shredtown.com


you guys talk about them like you know them based off of a comment on a video THEY made that someone "threatened" to steal. this is completely ignorant.

I used to hang out and ride with the guys 3 or 4 times a week. Therefore, I know how they are.
They are SUPER chill. anyone that has met them or partied with them or anything would know this.

Some of you should lighten up, oh and get a sense of humor.

www.shredtown.com

keep shreddin.
Old    Joe Pinkston (dtownwakeboard)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2010, 9:20 PM Reply   
Shredtown has done more for the sport than most people on this board. Who cares?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-22-2010, 11:21 PM Reply   
Woah Woah Woah Norbi, I ment no disrespect... just was saying you producing a lot of videos with riders other than yourself is far different than the shredtown vids.

I never thought you started for a paycheck, but your work is good enough to receive one...

You document other people's riding (least thats what I see of your work) so to me it is totally a different vibe than shredtown... I know you pop up in your vids, and as you said learned from watching yourself but how could I have known thats how you started?

Again, I never meant it to be "Norbi is only doing it for the moeny" .... but Norbi isn't logging vids for his own personal collection, he is doing to to share lots of riders with lots of other people... and doing it with style, therefore you're going to get paid sooner or later.... where I think shredtown just was a bunch of guys said, "I would like to have our so we can check it later" ... and sure enough they blew up.

Sorry if it came off as a bash, you seem super chill and can only imagine how much you love the sport, and since you have the talent that you do with film you could make a career out of it is just icing on the cake
Old    Seth Pangle (sethenol)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-23-2010, 6:21 AM Reply   
I'm confused how embedding hurts the hit count for their website. Stealing and re-posting is one thing but embedding still hits their site and streams it into another. The hit count for the video on vimeo would still get +1 if someone watched it embedded on another site. This whole thread is whack! www.shredtown.com
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       02-23-2010, 9:03 AM Reply   
haters...everywhere
Old    Norbi Vasko (norbiv)      Join Date: May 2009       02-23-2010, 10:51 AM Reply   
theres going be haters everywhere you go jr.
and nick its all good. I misunderstood your post than, my bad.
glad you like the vids!
shredtowns killing it for sure, Ive been watching their vids way before they were well known and I loved it how they`re so independent and theyre just doing their own thing. its always fun to come across something new. keep it up

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