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Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-18-2010, 11:49 AM Reply

Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-18-2010, 12:05 PM Reply   
If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report ( regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (


(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.


· "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

· "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

· "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-18-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   

The guy makes some valid points, but killing himself and other is a crazy way to make a point!
Old    Ronix Lover (loveronix)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-18-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   
time to blame something on the tea party. why should we be believe in the constitution anyway!?
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-18-2010, 12:52 PM Reply   

I don't agree with him on "violence is the answer", but I do agree with a lot of his points...
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-18-2010, 1:17 PM Reply   
The crashsite is less than a mile from my work. We could see the smoke cloud right after it happened. Crazy stuff.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-18-2010, 1:25 PM Reply   
Hummm ya know what they say Death and Tax's
Old    Brandon Stroud (stroh)      Join Date: Apr 2008       02-18-2010, 1:32 PM Reply   
Too soon.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-18-2010, 1:50 PM Reply   
The guy's basically spot on. Too bad he had to kill himself to get his point across.

Like I said in a thread last week: We should all be angry. We're basically being robbed blind by our government.

Over 50% of our income goes to taxes. We get taxed when we get paid. We pay taxes when we buy goods. We get taxed a second time on goods we buy second hand (DMV collecting sales tax on used vehicles?). We pay taxes on our property.

There is serious taxation and very little representation for the common man/woman.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-18-2010, 1:50 PM Reply   
I heard the FBI took the note down from from the website?
Old    Skubz (bflat53212)      Join Date: Mar 2003       02-18-2010, 1:55 PM Reply   
Yep Evan, that's why I advocate a federal sales taxing and doing away with federal income tax. Every single person (illegal and tourists) would be paying in to the system. Of course, those opposed would say we are "disenfranchising" the poor. You would still get most of your money from the wealthy, since they spend more. Of course, a ton of federal employees would be out of work, but it would simplify taxes.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-18-2010, 1:56 PM Reply   
Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer.

Yikes! I hate to say it, but he's right. The Democratic process has been exhausted.
Old    Ron T (wakemetoday)      Join Date: Mar 2006       02-18-2010, 2:01 PM Reply   
Why would you blame anything on the tea party?
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       02-18-2010, 2:04 PM Reply   
Perhaps he made a few good points, but the dude is clearly shedding responsibility for his own actions. He moves from CA to Texas with no job lined up and is pissed because the only jobs available are at a 1/3 the pay that they are in CA? Guess what dumb ass, so is the cost of living in Texas! You're pissed because you blew through your savings in a year while looking for a job? Perhaps you should have lined one up and/or done your research before moving to a state where pay rates are less than the state from which you moved from?

I agree that the government is ass-backwards in most areas and needs to change. The problem is that the wolves are guarding the hen house and until there are term limits imposed on congress nothing will change, no matter which party controls the house and senate. In the mean time people need to live as smart and responsibly as possible. The economy WILL get better and after it does it WILL collapse again. It doesn't take a genius to open a history book and see that. They key is to be financially prepared for the next collapse.

I feel dirty for even reading this piece of garbage's manifesto. Perhaps if he had put his faith in Christ instead of looking to blame everyone around him, his life might had taken a different path than ending in the tragic murder of innocent by standers.

That is all.... I'm off my soap box now.

(Message edited by nauty on February 18, 2010)
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-18-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
Sounds like he was both dumb and nuts. Doesn't mean he didn't say some things that are true. Just means he was basically the equivalent of a Muslim terrorist combined with a conspiracy theorist.

He was also appears to have blamed everyone and everything for his problems without ever glancing in the mirror, which I would assume is the basic profile for someone who flies planes into buildings.
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2010, 2:19 PM Reply   
^^^ Paul x 2

While I agree with some of the basic points he makes, this guy takes this stuff WAY too personally (to the point of KILLING himself???!!). Does anyone believe that any of this stuff is important enough to contemplate killing yourself or someone else over? Please. There are plenty of happy, well-adjusted people living great lives making half of what each of us makes, whatever that amount is.

This guy had (unaddressed) issues, and they were not economic/political.
Old    Manzo (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-18-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
Just means he was basically the equivalent of a Muslim terrorist combined with a conspiracy theorist.

Actually the first thing that popped into my head was: "Wait according to some on WW, aren't all terrorists Muslims?"
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-18-2010, 2:30 PM Reply   
I did think it was interesting that the news reports were saying the gubment declared "it was not a terrorist incident" - how is it not a terrorist incident? Because he's white?
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-18-2010, 2:37 PM Reply   
No sympathy from me. We're all losing our jobs, homes and everything we've spent our lives working for. There is a lot of truth in what he said, but cry me a river. Flying a plane into a building and injuring innocent people is disgusting and makes him nothing more than a pathetic excuse for a human being.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-18-2010, 2:37 PM Reply   
Alright... Let me rephrase just a bit.

The first third of his rant is basically spot on. The rest is essentially nonsense.

I have so many issues with the way the country is run that I could go on for hours. I don't have the time for that now, as I need to get back to work. I do think that there are major reforms that need to happen. I don't think that one political party or the other is going to accomplish those things. They're far too busy arguing amongst themselves. Creating their own road blocks.

All I want is the same accountability that's required of me. I hold up my end of the bargain and pay my taxes. Now, show me a school system that works (and isn't broke), give me good infrastructure (roads that aren't beaten to nothing), and a government that isn't running at a huge deficit.

Show me a place where everyone is treated equally. Where large corporations are held to the same standards as small ones. Where if you bankrupt yourself you go out of business and the government doesn't bail you out so you can pay out huge bonuses only months later.

Be it known that I'm also a fan of equal taxes all around. Just because a person makes more money because they've worked harder/smarter doesn't mean that they should be taxed more. It should be an incentive for others to work hard. The game is structured right now where it is essentially impossible to win.

The economy will turn around. People will again be happier. They will once again start spending money. Houses will regain equity. None of this means that we should sweep under the carpet the fact that the political system in this country is broken and needs to be shaken up. Congressional term limits would be a nice starting point.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-18-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
^^^ Paul x 3
Old    Manzo (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-18-2010, 2:50 PM Reply   
I did think it was interesting that the news reports were saying the gubment declared "it was not a terrorist incident" - how is it not a terrorist incident? Because he's white?

I also thought this...
Old    Brad C (whitewookie)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-18-2010, 2:52 PM Reply   
According to Homeland Security, Terrorism is:

"the use of force or violence against persons or property in violation of the criminal laws of the United States for purposes of intimidation, coercion, or ransom."

So no this was not a terrorist act. This was one nut job who couldn't come to grips with his own demons and tried to take revenge on those he felt wronged him. And no Wes it has nothing to do with the fact that he is white!

Joe Stack = Not a terrorist
Tim McVeigh = Terrorist
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-18-2010, 2:55 PM Reply   
Gee what I read of his "manifesto" sounds like he wanted to intimidate the IRS.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2010, 2:57 PM Reply   
Sounds to me this guy was a nut case and should have been admitted to a psych ward.

then you find out that he also started a fire at his house before he flew the airplane into the building.
Old    Manzo (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-18-2010, 3:05 PM Reply   
Joe Stack = Not a terrorist
Tim McVeigh = Terrorist

So McVeigh's motivation was revenge for Ruby Ridge and Waco, and Stack's was revenge against the IRS.

How does that differ?
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-18-2010, 3:10 PM Reply   
Another great reason people should not move here!
Old    Brad C (whitewookie)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-18-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
McVeighs motives were idealogical. To get his message and the message of his friends accross he tried to kill as many innocent people as possible. That causes fear within the public and he knew that.

Stack felt like he was personnally wronged by the IRS and he was carring out an act of revenge.

To me these two situations are very different.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-18-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer.

How in the hell can anyone claim he was not a terrorist?
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-18-2010, 3:51 PM Reply   
"Stack also left an explosive device in a car he parked at the Georgetown Municipal Airport, the airport of origin of his flight, officials told NBC's Pete Williams. Local and federal officials were attempting to disarm it."
Old    Boarder85 (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       02-18-2010, 4:00 PM Reply   
I cant say I disagree with all his points, only his actions. However, it is sad that it took those actions to make his opinions published. Tragic.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-18-2010, 4:15 PM Reply   
how is it not a terrorist incident? Because he's white?

Because even Muslim extremists can crash airplanes into IRS building without the public viewing them as terrorists.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-18-2010, 4:34 PM Reply   
Hmm, torches his house (putting neighbors in danger, crashes a plane into a building where people work, and leaves a bomb in his car to hopefully kill more people. That doesn't spell terrorist?
Old    Nate (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-18-2010, 4:51 PM Reply   
Am I the only here than noticed that this guy's whole isht snowball started because he tried to scam the IRS with some trumped up faith-based tax exemption?

He's a crook and he got caught. Then he cried about it before he offed himself in a spectacular way. Good story...but some you are actually getting behind him?
Old    Brad C (whitewookie)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-18-2010, 5:16 PM Reply   
OK I guess I will eat a little crow. It does seem now, with the car bomb, etc. that he would fit the mold of a demestic terrorist.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2010, 5:20 PM Reply   
I'm going to sound like a heartless a-hole but I am glad he's dead. At least the tax payers don't have to pay for court/lawyer costs now. That would have mounted to hundreds if not thousands of dollars.


(Message edited by dabell on February 18, 2010)
Old    Manzo (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-18-2010, 5:24 PM Reply   
I'm going to sound like a heartless a-hole but I am glad he's dead.

Not heartless at all. good result. No deaths other than his!
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-18-2010, 5:26 PM Reply   
No kidding. Good riddance, glad for Austin residents he was a failure even in death.
Old    Danny (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       02-18-2010, 6:01 PM Reply   
I feel dirty for even reading this piece of garbage's manifesto. Perhaps if he had put his faith in Christ instead of looking to blame everyone around him, his life might had taken a different path than ending in the tragic murder of innocent by standers.

I think you are crazier than him for thinking you need to have an imaginary friend to better your life.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-18-2010, 6:15 PM Reply   
"I think you are crazier than him for thinking you need to have an imaginary friend to better your life"

Oh sheet, the pot has been stirred.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-18-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
Well, apparently there was on Federal Employee that is missing and possibly has passed away from this idiot.

May you RIP if this is the case!!!!!
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       02-18-2010, 7:30 PM Reply   
"I think you are crazier than him for thinking you need to have an imaginary friend to better your life."

I knew when I posted that someone would take offense to it. That's okay, I'm not ashamed of my beliefs nor am I afraid to share them. You're entitled to yours as well, but I won't call you crazy for them... that is until you get yourself all worked up about the tribulations in this life and decide to go fly a plane into a building
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-19-2010, 7:28 AM Reply   
Obama should invade and occupy Texas since clearly they are harboring terrorists.
Old    Manzo (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-19-2010, 7:34 AM Reply   
Old    Skubz (bflat53212)      Join Date: Mar 2003       02-19-2010, 8:17 AM Reply   
"Am I the only here than noticed that this guy's whole isht snowball started because he tried to scam the IRS with some trumped up faith-based tax exemption? "

Nope, I thought the same thing when I was reading that long diatribe.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-19-2010, 8:46 AM Reply   
^^^ hahaha, he tried to file GOD as a dependent.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-19-2010, 8:52 AM Reply   
The dude owned a plane - he was obviously not doing too bad financially. What a selfish POS to go out this way.
Old    Joe (jcfox00)      Join Date: Mar 2009       02-19-2010, 9:14 AM Reply   
"Another great reason people should not move here!" Trace haha!
And yeah if he owned a plane must not have been doing too bad. He prob burned his house so the government couldn't "profit" off it after he was dead. Guy was a nut case, good riddance.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-19-2010, 9:29 AM Reply   
He could be the mascot's for Palin's 2012 campaign.

2008-Joe the Plumber

2012-Joe the Pilot
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-19-2010, 10:06 AM Reply   
"Obama should invade and occupy Texas since clearly they are harboring terrorists."

LOL, the federal government having to surrender to one of its member states would just be the icing on the cake of the current political climate.
Old    E Double U (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       02-19-2010, 11:46 AM Reply   
I thought I heard on the news that the plane was stolen or something along those lines. I could be wrong but thats what the report was when it came out on the news.
They showed a Cirrus 4 seater which is a pretty nice plane and $$$$.
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-19-2010, 12:15 PM Reply   
That was the version I heard when the story first broke here in Houston E dub, stolen Cirrus. Obviously not the case now...
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-19-2010, 3:20 PM Reply   
News here said it was a Piper Cherokee. It's not very expecsive at all. You can pick up a decent one for 20K.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-19-2010, 4:00 PM Reply   
To me, this guy is just like the freak who...

1) shot up students at Virginia Tech
2) killed women at his gym in upstate NY

They are just sick individuals not terrorists.

To me, a terrorist needs to be part of a group with a plan (sick groups vs sick individuals).
Old    Mike G (mike_gilbert)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-19-2010, 6:41 PM Reply   
"He could be the mascot's for Palin's 2012 campaign.

2008-Joe the Plumber

2012-Joe the Pilot"

Would you classify this lib as a terrorist then?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-20-2010, 12:13 AM Reply   
The writer of that article you posted Mike seems to have an agenda. She continually tried to point out southern states shootings, and also used Columbine (which because it's in Colorado, can be considered a western/southernish state that is looser about it's guns), but fails to mention anything about any shootings that happen in Northern states, such as the Northern Illinois shooting, or the mall shooting in Nebraska. Both of these have more in common with the topic at hand than the shooting that occurred at a Missouri power plant, but Missouri is a southern state.

Hmmmm. Could it be that they're trying to underhandedly say that southern states and their freedom with guns is bad and results in a lot of shooting? I mean, the logic makes sense, I just hope I don't sound too crazy and conspiratory, like some people here sound...
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-20-2010, 7:00 AM Reply   
$20k plane + $1000/mo hangar maintenance insurance = not a cheap hobby

The avg home in his neighborhood is around $250k, which is upper middle class around here.

This dude was clearly not destitute.
Old    Danny (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       02-20-2010, 1:50 PM Reply   
Did i miss where it said he had a hangar?
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-20-2010, 3:50 PM Reply   
Trace, did the guy live in Georgetown? If so, do you know what neighborhood?
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-20-2010, 8:29 PM Reply   
He kept his plane at the Georgetown airport. His house was in North Austin. I actually lived in Serenada right by the Gtown airport from 99-05, though. I heard the FBI sealed off that neighborhood for quite a while, investigating a bomb in his car.

Danny - by hangar I just meant storage at the airport. Point?
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-20-2010, 9:13 PM Reply   
Trace, I've jogged thru Serenada on many (though not enough) evenings. Although I'm not living there, I have a house less than 1/2 mile from Serenada... small world.
Old    Danny (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       02-21-2010, 12:18 AM Reply   
1000/mo seems like a lot. guess im not familiar with the area though.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-21-2010, 6:32 AM Reply   
Only experience I have with private aviation is my parents owning a couple planes in the 70's/80's. It got too expensive for them, and they were upper middle class.

$1000 was a guess on maintenance + hangar + insurance costs, but looks like I wasn't too far off:

Chad - Berry Creek?
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2010, 8:28 AM Reply   
Trace- No, first right off of NW Blvd leaving Serenada; immediately after Brush Creek. I should have listened to my gut and not my ex-wife and bought the house I found in Berry Creek instead.
Old    Danny (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       02-21-2010, 1:52 PM Reply   
your right, im splitting hairs.


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