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Old    justin knoblauch (justink)      Join Date: May 2008       01-19-2010, 12:16 AM Reply   
This July I am suppose to receive my 10k rebate through Master Craft. Has anybody been through the process yet? If so did you get your money?
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-19-2010, 6:58 AM Reply   
supposedly have to follow all the directions to a "T" in order to collect the $$$. good luck. I've heard it's legit, but tough.
Old    Jerry (witness140)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-19-2010, 7:20 AM Reply   
Cash Rewards filed Chapter 7 last year. The program is dead. Did you file as a creditor in the Texas District Court before the deadline?

If you didn't file, any hopes of getting anything are dead. And even if you did file, like several of us did, we aren't expecting anything.

Sorry.

(Message edited by witness140 on January 19, 2010)
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-19-2010, 7:20 AM Reply   
Cash Rewards filed bankruptcy in July 09. There are a ton of posts on the web about it. I doubt you will ever get anything from them.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-19-2010, 8:59 AM Reply   
Wow, that's pretty low...sorry to hear that fellas.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-19-2010, 9:00 AM Reply   
Ouch, I am glad I got out of Cope's when I did. I think I only sold a couple boats with Cash Rewards. If the economy didn't destroy Cope's this Cash Rewards would have. I never liked the idea of how they wanted us to use the cash rewards either. I always wanted to be up front with the customer and give them the option that they could save 1500 on the price of the boat or have the chance to get a 10k check in 3 years.

Cope's started Cash Rewards before Mastercraft. I thought I remember that Mastercraft had Cash Rewards backed by Bank of America or some crap like that. Any body have any ideas there?
Old    Robert A (cocheese)      Join Date: Jul 2004       01-19-2010, 9:29 AM Reply   
here is the post from last year:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/716811.html
Old    justin knoblauch (justink)      Join Date: May 2008       01-19-2010, 9:36 AM Reply   
I'm not suprised!!! Anything I can do to get that money or at least portion?

Sounds like I'm out of luck, I would give anything a shot though.

Thank
Old    Jerry (witness140)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-19-2010, 9:57 AM Reply   
Justin,

The deadline to file the paperwork in the BK proceeding was over a month ago IIRC. I think it is too late. In reality, there are a lot of people that need to be paid first, so I doubt there will be anything left when they get to us at the end of the list anyways.

For as hard as MC pushed the CR thing, they sure have been silent through this entire ordeal. Not a peep - not even a heads up to the folks who were issued CR's saying 'hey, the program is going CH 7, here are your options...'

Luckily, my local dealer sent me a little note telling me to look into it quite some time ago.

In my case, MC picked up the cost of the CR at Fanfare last year, so it was like playing with free chips. Win some, lose some.
Old    Cory Z (geterdone)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-19-2010, 10:32 AM Reply   
Wow! I know a couple of people who bought a MasterCraft because of this. I wonder if MC will step up and help out. Even though this is through cash rewards most Mastercraft dealers were advertising heavily on this at past boat shows. Buy a Nautique from me and I will give you 10K off in 3 years ha ha ha ha!
Old    justin knoblauch (justink)      Join Date: May 2008       01-19-2010, 11:19 AM Reply   
Unreal!! Has anyone spoke to MC about this. As Jerry said MC sure has been quiet about it all.

I love my boat but this makes me worry about MC
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2010, 11:24 AM Reply   
I don't think anyone has been quiet about it at all. This forum & the MC forum lit up like crazy when this all went down last summer. Even the Malibu forum was buzzin about it.
Old    justin knoblauch (justink)      Join Date: May 2008       01-19-2010, 11:27 AM Reply   
Im not saying people are quiet, I havent heard anything from MC.
Old    Jerry (witness140)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-19-2010, 11:57 AM Reply   
Big difference between the enthusiasts talking about it on forums vs the mfgr making a statement.

A very small percentage of folks who own these boats are on the forums. There are a bunch of folks just like Justin who will send in their stuff at the end of the 3 yr waiting period and find out for the first time that CR is CH 7 when the mail is returned - in 2012.
Old    Rob Flaherty (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-19-2010, 12:05 PM Reply   
Mention it on the MC forum and the thread will be deleted and maybe even your profile. Pretty BS if you ask me.
Old    Jerry (witness140)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-19-2010, 12:15 PM Reply   
Very true Rob.
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-19-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
"Mention it on the MC forum and the thread will be deleted and maybe even your profile. Pretty BS if you ask me."

Wow. Stay classy MC
Old                01-19-2010, 12:31 PM Reply   
Here is what MC had to say to its customers upset about Cash Rewards. (cut/paste from MC Team Talk and now removed)


OK guys – I am going to address this and then this is it. This thread will be closed. Furthermore any future threads about Cash Rewards will be deleted because this dance is getting really old. And if you want to challenge that, we will simply take the site down indefinitely. But before I give you the official statement, let me say a few things …again:

1) Those of you wanting an apology, you can go ahead and quit reading. There will be no apology because MasterCraft did nothing wrong. We stand by our decision to promote and endorse Cash Rewards.

2) Team talk is not… I repeat… is NOT a forum where you are allowed to bait us, heckle us and demand some sort of answer from us. That was never the intent of Team Talk and if that is what you guys keep pushing, we will just to end it. We have channels in place for you guys to address your concerns and I can assure you this is not the place. It isn’t that we do not care but presenting it here does little to no good because we are NOT going to handle your issues here. Bottom line - contact a dealer or our customer service instead of hiding behind a mob that “carries” keyboards and monitors instead of a pitchforks and torches.

3) Please stop the whining about the good ol’ days when MasterCraft did not monitor, close or delete threads. Need I remind you that in the good ol’ days there were not nearly as many members as there are presently? Consequently we created rules for OUR site (yes, our site) that would ensure OUR forum did not become a place where we or others got bashed… at OUR expense. So we monitor, close and delete threads because you guys break the very simplest of rules. For example, we ask that you make no derogatory comments about MasterCraft, yet here I am posting in the “MasterCraft…Cowards??” thread. Bottom line, we have expectations of reasonable discussions by reasonable people, however, that seemingly is becoming harder and harder for you all to do. As a result, we create and enforce rules to ensure sanity and reasonability. If that doesn’t work, then we will take the site down.

4) Learn the importance of being a bit more objective. The fact that a bunch of you are so fired up about this when none of you used it (except JohnE) is simply childish. Truth is we have been working countless hours on the phone with CR and customers trying to make sure the landing is the smoothest it can be. While many of us here are doing that for the customers that actually used the program, you are on TT acting like you are best friends with the guy that died in high school when the truth is you never had anything to do with him.

With that said, here is the official statement from MasterCraft about Cash Rewards relevant to what we know at this time. And yes it is from our lawyers because one of the things you never take into consideration when you don’t hear from us is the liability of any written response. Without further adieu...

OFFICIAL STATEMENT:
“We understand that there are a lot of questions surrounding Cash Rewards, Inc. (“Cash Rewards”) and the Cash Rewards program developed and administered by Cash Rewards in light of the recent bankruptcy filing by Cash Rewards in Dallas, Texas. We at MasterCraft have questions as well. But we are not in any position to answer questions at this time because the U.S. Bankruptcy Court has not set forth a plan for us, or any other creditors, to follow. The fact remains that Cash Rewards operated a promotional program and who, like many other financial institutions, encountered an unprecedented financial crisis. Cash Rewards is not affiliated with, is not owned by, and is not under the control of MasterCraft. Instead, Cash Rewards is an independent business entity who operated a promotional program with MasterCraft (through MasterCraft’s contract with Cash Rewards) and with various other businesses in a variety of industries. In accordance with the contract, all monies paid into the Cash Rewards program were to be held in escrow pursuant to the terms of the Cash Rewards program. A Bankruptcy Trustee has been appointed to oversee the administration of future claims relating to the Cash Rewards program. It is MasterCraft’s understanding that the Trustee will appoint a new Independent Third Party Administrator to administer the claims process going forward. So while no new certificates may be issued under the Cash Rewards program, consumers who are holding Cash Rewards Certificates will be able to follow through on their claims subject to the terms of the program and subject to any future orders that may be issued by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.”

Bottom line – MasterCraft has fully paid their obligations to Cash Rewards so if the dealer paid their part and the customer did their part CORRECTLY, their money is safe and they will receive payout.

For those of you wanting a contact to address issues with Cash Rewards, we have not received the information from the courts. Once we do, we can certainly make that available.

Now go do something more productive…

(Message edited by shooter_08 on January 19, 2010)
Old    bthom (billthom)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-19-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
The fact that this is MC “official” reply on this is alarming. A company should NEVER talk to its customer’s like this. Let alone to it’s most loyal customers who would spend time on a Internet Forum devoted solely to them…IMO. There are ways to talk to customers and this isn’t a good way…a company telling customers to please stop the whining…damn. So many better ways to deliver a message.

I say “official” because I hope that was not really from a MasterCraft employee (the explanation part…not the “it’s not our problem” Official Statement part) – I didn’t take the time to read the whole long thread so I am just hoping
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-19-2010, 12:53 PM Reply   
Wow, that statement came off very rude. Nothing like slamming your customers when all they want to know is what is going on. I would understand that many of them would be upset with MC whether or not they enrolled in the program. People were saying that this program could really ruin the reputation of MC and it may have now come to fruition. I don't know if it will really effect MC that much but it sure doesn't help.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2010, 12:58 PM Reply   
Again, there was nothing quiet about this. Especially on the MC site. That post that Shooter put up there was after a loooong debate where dealers & the forum admins (MC employees) were involved.

Alarming? Yes.

Will it matter to MC loyalists? Nope.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-19-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
Wow...simply, wow. How can they take such a hard line with people who banked and maybe even depended on assurances made by MC dealers or MC themselves. Sure, it sucks that Cash Rewards went under and I'm sure it can be frustrating to hear accusations from people on your own forum, but simply sympathize, don't belittle and act immature. Sounds like a snot nosed kid wrote that after his buddy loaned him his bike and he broke it, basically saying "get over it."

Hmmm...
Old    TRDon (trdon)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-19-2010, 2:16 PM Reply   
Sounds like a way to bait and switch if you ask me. Lure with a 10k rebate in a few years time and show no sympathy when things dont go as planned. Im sure MC made it seem like their boat was 60K on paper instead of 70k. Now with no empathy for the consumer that bought into this I think is pretty bad biz if you ask me.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2010, 2:23 PM Reply   
One of the many reasons I would not buy a MC. They have totally the wrong attitude towards there customers.
Old    rick (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-19-2010, 2:56 PM Reply   
That statement by MC is funny. Someone didn't do their research, or gambled and lost when it came to marketing. They screwed their customers. They want to say that Cash Rewards screwed their customers, but in reality, MC did. Any legit business knows that when they partner with another business, especially when it comes to marketing, that they are associated as a pair. What MC did would reflect on cash rewards and vice versa. Tiger Woods is a classic example of this, he does something that the public doesn't like, and sponsors pull their sponsorship. Why? Because people associated Woods with those companies and vice versa.

By agreeing to do this marketing program with Cash Rewards they probably made more money in the short term, but in the long run they probably hurt themselves. Something like this would absolutely keep me from buying a new MC. The fact that they cannot say that they made a mistake and therefore apologize for this situation that they have put their customers in is disgraceful.

Amazingly this could have been avoided if MC had taken a more conservative approach in attempting to sell their boats.
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       01-19-2010, 3:04 PM Reply   
"Something like this would absolutely keep me from buying a new MC"

I like that new X-25 but me too.
Old    Mattt (motorcitymatt)      Join Date: Feb 2007       01-19-2010, 3:10 PM Reply   
If it sounds to good to be true... it probably is......

Wow! I'll bet my left one that no mastercraft dealer told any of its customers that Cash Rewards was an independent entity, that whould of been a huge red flag!

Huge Marketing SCAM!!!!

Does mastercraft think it's above The Bill Of Rights?? Hello... Freedom of Speech ever heard of it???
"... we ask you make no derogatory comments about mastercraft.."
I know it's their web site, but come on, let the truth be told!


"Those of you wanting an apology, you can go ahead and quit reading. There will be no apology because MasterCraft did nothing wrong. We stand by our decision to promote and endorse Cash Rewards."

Damm... not even an unforseen economic circumstances apology, THAT'S LOW!
Of course they did nothing wrong, they knew all along that cash rewards was underfunded and would NEVER PAY OUT!

Calling their customers whiners! Ughh, below the belt!

I sincerely feel for the unfortunate customers who were duked, played, flat out taken advantage of. I just sucks when Fat Cat CEO's and over paid lawyers pull the wool over the public, let alone their TRUSTING CUSTOMERS!

Sure will look at the mastercraft marina differently next time I drive by.

GLAD I AM NOT ON mastercrafts TEAM :-)
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-19-2010, 3:22 PM Reply   
Wow. Just wow....
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-19-2010, 3:39 PM Reply   
The day that post went up, I quit frequenting or even using that site for anything other than looking at boats for sale. Like has been said, derogatory comments aren't great on a company's website, but when it's true, you shouldn't hide it. Let alone react that way. That was also pretty much a response to people asking why their posts were deleted when they were either questioning the validity of the program, sharing their sad story, or speaking the truth about it.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-19-2010, 3:45 PM Reply   
I'm glad there are forums like this for things like this to be discussed, I had never heard about this before today.
Old    Troy (liveoz)      Join Date: May 2002       01-19-2010, 4:46 PM Reply   
So there you go Justin, you will not receive your money, and don't whine to MC, they don't want to hear it.

Pathetic, come on Billy, post how bad the Malibu quality is, that will make everything better.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-19-2010, 5:05 PM Reply   
It is true that the threads were getting pretty brutal by most of us who were saying 'told you so' and had never participated in the program. The math simply did not add up. I was told a new X35 would only cost me in the 50's after I got my 25 K back in 3 years. After seeing how the ponzi scheme operated, I predicted I could not bank on the money.

So although I think the MC 'official' post was out of line, I will point out that it has been taken way out of context. We were bashing MC very hard, so they punched back.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-19-2010, 5:57 PM Reply   
\quote {Pathetic, come on Billy, post how bad the Malibu quality is, that will make everything better.}

WTF??

(Message edited by bill_airjunky on January 19, 2010)
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-19-2010, 6:10 PM Reply   
Let me first say I agree that this statement was out of line and I do not know the whole story because I did not look at the team talk thread. However in this statement from Mastercraft's lawyers it states that Cash Rewards put the money into an escrow account and if this is true everyone will still be able to receive their cash rewards. So Justin it seems that you should get your money but it may take a little while.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-19-2010, 6:58 PM Reply   
In Sept 2008 I almost bought a new X15. I loved the boat but when I sat down the do the deal The best year end price quoted was 75k plus tax and prep. That was way out of budget. I was then told about CR. It would cost an additional $3500 to receive 25k in 3 years. This program was presented as a sure thing as long as I did all the paperwork exactly as the rules stated. I did some research and CR seemed to good to be true. I thought I would be better of buying 3500 lottery tickets. I didn't buy the MC but I did join the team forum. I got slammed pretty bad there by the other members. After reading the MC rules and terms I don't go there anymore. The MC forum is the ONLY forum that only allows positive posts all others follow up on problems and help with solutions. The MC way of doing business is the opposite of the Nautique way.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-19-2010, 7:17 PM Reply   
Bill K,

I am sure he was referring to Billy (woreout) who is a MC dealer in FL (pretending not to be on) who has frequent posts knocking other boat brands, in that typical MC dealer way.
Old    Hayes (hayes)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-19-2010, 7:21 PM Reply   
Mastercraft, all I can say is wow. You probably screwed lots of naive customers into buying your boats with this ridiculous scheme. I mean what respectful company teams up with a scheme like this who doesn't pay on technicalities then files bankruptcy. My 12 year old cousin could tell you they would go bankrupt ($3500 for $10,000 in three years????). Then, when s$%t hits the fan, you act like it is the customers fault for buying into it and bash them on your sponsored thread.

THANK GOD I OWN A NAUTIQUE!
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-19-2010, 8:09 PM Reply   
Hayes
Its $1500 for every 10k in cash reward. Because or my experience with MC I to bought a Nautique and I feel the same way.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-19-2010, 10:14 PM Reply   
lol, i remember that thread and although the whole thing stinks to high heaven, i'd have to agree with talltigeguy in that the post from teamtalk is really out of context without the rest of the thread. it was getting a little out of hand. still, embarassing to say the least.
Old    Dennis (denystaucd)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-19-2010, 10:27 PM Reply   
Just out of curiosity does a rebate, like the cashrewards program, count as income and require you to pay taxes on it.

cheers...
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-19-2010, 10:44 PM Reply   
Dennis, from when I was at Cope's and we had it I don't think it was taxable, but maybe that was some bs we were told to try and sell it. IDK. They also told us it isn't a rebate. I think it was because if you follow the directions on a rebate you get the money and it is also immediate. Since this was deffered 3 years and there was no garruntee that even if you followed the directions perfectly you would get the money. It is kind of like an insurance policy. If too many people file claims the insurance company could run out of money and not have enought to pay people's claims.
Old    Jerry (witness140)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-20-2010, 2:03 AM Reply   
One of the key phrases in the fine print contained 2 very important and influential words IIRC.

"up to"

All references to the CR contained the phrase "Up to X" with X being your reward level. So just because you were issued a 25K CR, what that really meant was that the MOST you could get was 25K. In reality, depending on how many other folks tapped the escrow account at that time, you could receive anything between 0 and 25.

In the fine print of the dealer's agreement, it was prohibited for the dealer to ever refer to the CR program as a 'rebate'

(Message edited by witness140 on January 20, 2010)
Old    Mattt (motorcitymatt)      Join Date: Feb 2007       01-20-2010, 10:58 AM Reply   
I sent a link of this thread to a guy in my crew yesterday.

He had a new xstar on his short list.

"Not any more" was his reply.

One potential customer gone.... sorry mc
Old    Mike (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-20-2010, 11:36 AM Reply   
I can say that i was never offered this deal by my dealer. I bought my X-star from Texas Mastercraft and they never once mentioned this deal. I think these rebates were dealer driven and was really up to the dealer as to whether or not they would participate. I am glad my dealer didn't even mention it.
Old    Michael Cook (mcook77)      Join Date: Feb 2004       01-20-2010, 11:39 AM Reply   
Mike - 3 or 4 years ago at the Dallas boat show, TXMC was definitely pushing this offer.
Old    Mike (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-20-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   
Michael,

Good info. I never heard a peep about it. I'm glad i didn't.
Old    Troy (liveoz)      Join Date: May 2002       01-20-2010, 11:42 AM Reply   
Sorry Bill K, not referring to you, kind of referring to Billy from the other MC Post that he somehow decided he would bash Malibu as a remedy.
Old    Troy (liveoz)      Join Date: May 2002       01-20-2010, 11:47 AM Reply   
So unrelated to MC, was the CR just a pyramid scam, and how was it even legal?
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-21-2010, 10:03 AM Reply   
They simply find loopholes to keep from paying you and they figure it will cost you more to fight it through an attorney than the rebate is worth.
Old    Whiskey Tango (210san)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-21-2010, 12:01 PM Reply   
I am surprised MC hasn't contacted Dave to remove this thread or maybe they have....in any case you would think they would find a way to take care of their customers instead of endorsing this lame program and screwing over the ones that keep them in business.
Old    David Mason (rocketman)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-21-2010, 1:05 PM Reply   
Wow, MC sounds like the government. Censorship and ripping off the public. But there are people (loyalists) who still vote for it, so they (MC) like the gov will still go on.
Old    Kyle Duffy (duffmangt)      Join Date: Jan 2008       01-23-2010, 1:12 PM Reply   
this is tough for me...i own a MC x-2...when i bought the dealer brought up the program but my salesman actually told me it would be better to just take a little cash up front instead due to the difficulties behind the program. But the way MC handled the uproar is beyond ridiculous. I'm 100% happy with my dealer but not MC in general now. Buying a new boat next summer...may not be MC anymore.

I like being treated like i just spent a of money on a company. Not like im disposable.

a lot to think about...
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-25-2010, 10:58 AM Reply   
The important thing to remember is that Mastercraft, while they may have in fact encouraged their dealers to sign on with these clowns, does not sell boats to consumers. Individual dealers made the call to get on board with Cash Rewards, and they are the ones that passed the screw job down to the buyer. Cope's, for example, offered cash rewards with every brand they sold....MC, Malibu, FourWinns, Striper, Chapperal, Jetcraft, CustomWeld, etc etc. I've seen Cash Rewards offered by Real Estate agents, Contractors, car Dealers, Jewelery stores, and more. Perhaps one of the greatest pyramid scams of the last few decades.
Old    WakePowell Chris (epic1)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-25-2010, 11:41 AM Reply   
wow. If I was ever able to afford a MC, I would not buy one now. That was d bag arrogance on the team talk post. THere are toooo many other choices. I know no boat mfg cares about customers, just bottom lines. BUT at least try and hide your contempt towards your customer.
Old    Roger Stratford (rlsv211)      Join Date: Oct 2009       01-25-2010, 11:58 AM Reply   
I have a friend who bought a Malibu from the people at Copes(Ultimate Water Sports) and they bought into this thing. I guess they should be finding out about it in the next month or so. I do not have the heart to tell them.
Old    Peter T (deltawake)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-25-2010, 12:09 PM Reply   
The MC response seems to indicate that the money will still be paid out. Does anybody know for sure that it will not?
Old    rick (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-25-2010, 3:31 PM Reply   
Meathead,

MC can tell its dealers that they can't sell boats in conjunction with cash rewards. You get in bed with whatever company you associate with, and that includes the dealerships. If a dealership is shady...that can lead people to believe that the boat manufacturer is shady, even if that isn't true. The plain and simple fact is that although MC has nothing to do with cash rewards, they gambled by letting cash rewards use their boats to try and sell their product. Now MC takes a big hit in the integrity department because they didn't do a good job protecting their own brand. It is their fault they are getting this backlash. They may not have suckered their customers, but they also did crappy job at protecting those customers.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-25-2010, 3:49 PM Reply   
Some people try to defend cash rewards as being a victim of the economy. But even this scheme would have worked had it not been corrupt from the start.

The fine print said that if the escrow account had less than the amount for full reward, then they would give out less. Rather than do that, they folded altogether because they actually ran a negative balance and were also getting sued left and right for denying proper rewards payments. I am sure the owner got away with a very handsome amount...and might even keep it.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-26-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
rick,

I agree 100 percent. I thank God I left Cope's before they got wrapped up with that scheme. I cannot imagine having to field a call from a customer who I put into that program and tell them their promised funds are gone.
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-26-2010, 11:02 AM Reply   
I don't understand how MC can claim they had nothing to do with it. With most or their dealers taking part the instruction to do so obviously had to come from the top.
Old    Bob L (bob_l)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-26-2010, 1:16 PM Reply   
This was a Bernie Madoff system from day one and I participated in a few threads that clearly pointed out that the math never did and never will work, no matter the state of the economy. The only way for it to work is to take into account that Cash Rewards was betting that you would forget to do the paperwork in a timely manner and if you did, they made it very difficult to meet their requirements. My MC dealer did not participate as they knew it had the potential to be a scam. If you were so lucky as to get your reward (not sure how many actually did) then that means 8-10 other people got screwed in the process.

At the end of the day, people got screwed and would have been screwed even if CR had not filed for bankruptcy.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-26-2010, 2:27 PM Reply   
Lots of culpability to go around.

Obviously it all starts the David Malloy president of CR and his minions who set up the scam. He actually posted to lure more persons in who were growing skeptical.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/651118.html?1234291241

MC put their name on the ads and undoubtedly provided a facade of legitimacy and quickly ducked behind their attorneys when things unraveled. The ad below is not a MC dealer ad, but - Mastercraft corporate.

And a little more 'caveat emptor' on behalf of the buyers would have made this pipe dream impossible if no one bought into the program.

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Old    rick (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-26-2010, 3:49 PM Reply   
Wow what a joke of a company. I don't care how good of a product you make, you cannot allow your name to be part of that ad above, and then later post that nasty message, saying they wouldn't apologize.

I am surprised that every other boat maker hasn't posted that ad all over the place. Man I feel really bad for their customers who were involved in this program.
Old    Dave (davomaddo)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-26-2010, 5:27 PM Reply   
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

This is a good reminder for business people out there. You have to watch who you do business with.

When stuff goes down - it isn't so easy to step away from your business partners. A bad partner can do bad damage to your own reputation.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-26-2010, 5:45 PM Reply   
Good suggestion Dave.

When in doubt, Google it. There have been fraud accusations against CR for years.
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-27-2010, 7:20 AM Reply   
wow that ad pretty much puts a nail in the coffin of MCs denials
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-27-2010, 9:37 AM Reply   
I can't believe they tried to deny the relation with that ad out. MC, just take the blame and apologize. It will make things so much easier.
Old    guess402 (guess402)      Join Date: Mar 2009       01-27-2010, 10:00 AM Reply   
I bought my 2008 x-15 in jan 2009 and I took the cash rewards mostly because my dealer sold me on it and because he told me I could only save 1000 dollars on the boat if I didnt want it.

With tax I paid $62,000 for my x-15ss which had a list of just north of 95K as I recall so to me the 1 grand was worth the bet. You know 25K was as important to me as the next guy so I took all the steps I even went so far as to put all the things I needed in my safety deposit box so I wouldnt loose them.
All in all I thought I really stole the boat and I am not so sure I did but hey it felt like I got a lot for my money.

My thoughts were hey if I get back my 1000 then it was a pain in my ass and I made a bad time investment that made me break even anything more than that 1K upto the 25K was a bonus. I think thats really the only way anyone who read the fine print before buying could take part in this program.

However my one question remains.... is there any hope for me getting my 1G back or is that gone with the wind because if it is I am def going to go knocking on mastercrafts door for a second set of tower speakers.
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       01-27-2010, 10:17 AM Reply   
^^ Gonzo. I'm no lawyer, but sounds like a good class action lawsuit to me.....
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-27-2010, 12:20 PM Reply   
Guys it is sad to say but MC has made it clear that they will do nothing. I would say they knew how cr was gonna go from the get go so the protected themselves legally from the backlash that was to come.
Old    AVS (moradaboardin)      Join Date: May 2005       01-30-2010, 2:19 PM Reply   
This is really disappointing, Ive had 2 master crafts now and while the dealer experiences always left much to be desired the quality of the boats have been great, (but so has my old malibu! '94, carberated, and starts at altitude every time). The fact that they stood behind such an obvious Ponzi scheme is bad enough but that response is ridiculous... Go back and take marketing 101, treating your customers like crap always eventually come around to bite you in the a**. Im guessing this was a myopic last ditch attempt to boost sales in a failing market...good luck long term!
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-30-2010, 6:09 PM Reply   
Guess402
If my MC dealer had quoted me 62k out the door for the 08 X15 I was interested in I would be a MC owner now. I was quoted 75k for the boat and standard trailer plus tax. If I wanted to go with CR for 25k it would be another $3500. I bought a 08 210 SANTE instead and never looked back.
Old    Josh Diaz (steezin4noreason)      Join Date: Mar 2009       02-03-2010, 9:01 PM Reply   
Reposted Mastercraft statement from above-
"OK guys – I am going to address this and then this is it. This thread will be closed. Furthermore any future threads about Cash Rewards will be deleted because this dance is getting really old. And if you want to challenge that, we will simply take the site down indefinitely. But before I give you the official statement, let me say a few things …again:

1) Those of you wanting an apology, you can go ahead and quit reading. There will be no apology because MasterCraft did nothing wrong. We stand by our decision to promote and endorse Cash Rewards.

2) Team talk is not… I repeat… is NOT a forum where you are allowed to bait us, heckle us and demand some sort of answer from us. That was never the intent of Team Talk and if that is what you guys keep pushing, we will just to end it. We have channels in place for you guys to address your concerns and I can assure you this is not the place. It isn’t that we do not care but presenting it here does little to no good because we are NOT going to handle your issues here. Bottom line - contact a dealer or our customer service instead of hiding behind a mob that “carries” keyboards and monitors instead of a pitchforks and torches.

3) Please stop the whining about the good ol’ days when MasterCraft did not monitor, close or delete threads. Need I remind you that in the good ol’ days there were not nearly as many members as there are presently? Consequently we created rules for OUR site (yes, our site) that would ensure OUR forum did not become a place where we or others got bashed… at OUR expense. So we monitor, close and delete threads because you guys break the very simplest of rules. For example, we ask that you make no derogatory comments about MasterCraft, yet here I am posting in the “MasterCraft…Cowards??” thread. Bottom line, we have expectations of reasonable discussions by reasonable people, however, that seemingly is becoming harder and harder for you all to do. As a result, we create and enforce rules to ensure sanity and reasonability. If that doesn’t work, then we will take the site down.

4) Learn the importance of being a bit more objective. The fact that a bunch of you are so fired up about this when none of you used it (except JohnE) is simply childish. Truth is we have been working countless hours on the phone with CR and customers trying to make sure the landing is the smoothest it can be. While many of us here are doing that for the customers that actually used the program, you are on TT acting like you are best friends with the guy that died in high school when the truth is you never had anything to do with him.

With that said, here is the official statement from MasterCraft about Cash Rewards relevant to what we know at this time. And yes it is from our lawyers because one of the things you never take into consideration when you don’t hear from us is the liability of any written response. Without further adieu...

OFFICIAL STATEMENT:
“We understand that there are a lot of questions surrounding Cash Rewards, Inc. (“Cash Rewards”) and the Cash Rewards program developed and administered by Cash Rewards in light of the recent bankruptcy filing by Cash Rewards in Dallas, Texas. We at MasterCraft have questions as well. But we are not in any position to answer questions at this time because the U.S. Bankruptcy Court has not set forth a plan for us, or any other creditors, to follow. The fact remains that Cash Rewards operated a promotional program and who, like many other financial institutions, encountered an unprecedented financial crisis. Cash Rewards is not affiliated with, is not owned by, and is not under the control of MasterCraft. Instead, Cash Rewards is an independent business entity who operated a promotional program with MasterCraft (through MasterCraft’s contract with Cash Rewards) and with various other businesses in a variety of industries. In accordance with the contract, all monies paid into the Cash Rewards program were to be held in escrow pursuant to the terms of the Cash Rewards program. A Bankruptcy Trustee has been appointed to oversee the administration of future claims relating to the Cash Rewards program. It is MasterCraft’s understanding that the Trustee will appoint a new Independent Third Party Administrator to administer the claims process going forward. So while no new certificates may be issued under the Cash Rewards program, consumers who are holding Cash Rewards Certificates will be able to follow through on their claims subject to the terms of the program and subject to any future orders that may be issued by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.”

Bottom line – MasterCraft has fully paid their obligations to Cash Rewards so if the dealer paid their part and the customer did their part CORRECTLY, their money is safe and they will receive payout.

For those of you wanting a contact to address issues with Cash Rewards, we have not received the information from the courts. Once we do, we can certainly make that available.

Now go do something more productive… "



If that doesn't kill customer loyalty...I don't know what will. I feel like selling my Xstar now.

(Message edited by steezin4noreason on February 03, 2010)
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-04-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
Yep MC corporate has become extremely arrogant and is not the company of old.
Old    266CrownlineBR (266crownlinebr)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-07-2010, 5:44 AM Reply   
Wow, I was looking at Malibu or Mastercraft. Mastercraft just got dropped off my list forever. I see posts on here all the time about what boat to buy. I don't remember anyone bringing this up. If their corporate is going to treat their customers like this, I can't imagine having to deal with local dealers. No thanks.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-09-2010, 12:29 PM Reply   
Leave the politics for the lawyers and drive a MC and let that make up your mind.
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-09-2010, 12:59 PM Reply   
Customer service is VERY important when selecting a boat, you want to know you're going to be taken care of for your 50K+ investment. So much more goes into buying a boat than a test drive.
Old    rick (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-09-2010, 1:30 PM Reply   
Jeremy,

I am guessing that you didn't partake in the CR program, nor do you really care if any of your fellow MC owners were deceived.
Old    Big E. (wakesetter101)      Join Date: Oct 2005       02-09-2010, 4:09 PM Reply   
Thats pretty sorry of them to do. I wouldnt ever consider them for a new boat purchase after that statement.
Old    Drew Pancoast (dru1974)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-09-2010, 4:49 PM Reply   
Wow good informative thread, on the moomba website we often have guys that come on the site and complain about an issue, skiers choice immedietly get ahold of the person and try to come to some kind of assistance if at all possible.

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