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Old    M S (tonka)      Join Date: May 2006       01-23-2010, 7:31 PM Reply   
For those of you who don't follow snowboarding, in 2010 you can't win in the halfpipe unless three out of five hits are double corks. Snowboarders have been doing double corks (a spin in the air where the rider goes off axis twice before landing) for ages, but I've never seen a wakeboarder perform one. I bet Bob Soven could do a TS off-axis 540 into a front flip and that could be considered a double cork. How would you imagine doing a double cork on a wakeboard?
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-24-2010, 12:33 AM Reply   
Remove the boat, rope, water and wakeboard, and add snow, a halfpipe, a snowboard, and Shaun White.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-24-2010, 2:31 PM Reply   
Wouldn't a cork be simply an handlepass off axis spin or and ole. I guess you could call a big worm a double cork 9.
Old    Patrick Phoenix (boarderpat)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-24-2010, 2:52 PM Reply   
Seems to me that a double halfcab roll is pretty much a double cork...the rotation looks similar in my opinion!
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-24-2010, 3:55 PM Reply   
I dont get why snowboarders call them "double cork spins" versus just having an invert name, like double backflip backside 180, or a Rice Flip or something. I guess some truly are spins, but most look like snowboard equivalent to mobes/double flips. I feel like inverts are frowned upon in snowboarding but Im not into the snow scene as much so I could be wrong, but videos and slopestyle runs to me seem to be 95% spins. Just recently this double cork stage has just emerged but a year or two ago I feel like Pipe was the same way...big air/grab, alley oop spin, 900/1080, 900/1080, 1080/1260.

As for wakeboarding, I cant visualize a double cork like trick although Im sure it could be done, but it seems like it would have to be a 720+ degree rotation or double invert, both of which are extremely hard.
Old    Ben B (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       01-24-2010, 4:01 PM Reply   
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a double cork a double backflip? (with spin obviously), basically a double rodeo?
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-24-2010, 5:00 PM Reply   
Yeah they don't consider going inverted to be an "invert". They consider it all spinning. The best example of a double cork on a wakeboard is Bob Soven's Double Front Roll 180
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-24-2010, 5:25 PM Reply   
Good call on the "trifecta" I can definitely see the resemblence
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-24-2010, 6:01 PM Reply   
Tom Fooshee's Pete 7 also has kind of a double cork appearance to it. I mean the double cork thing is dumb. They really are just double inverts of some sort.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       01-24-2010, 7:02 PM Reply   
a flip and a Rodeo arent the same thing. A flip is when the boards inverts tip to tail. a Rodeo is when you dip your shoulder while spinning. How hard you dip is how get crazy with it.
Old    Ben B (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       01-24-2010, 10:55 PM Reply   
well yeah, "double rodeo" is what i meant. but what is a rodeo? ...a flip with rotation. the board just never goes tip to tail because of the rotation, but its still a flip backwards. main thing i'm tryin to get at is isn't a double cork two rotations backward
Old    Adam Levitt (alevitt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-25-2010, 11:13 AM Reply   
http://tinyurl.com/y9f2vkg

Can't see any wakeboarders landing anything like this soon (or ever). Hell, I've been snowboarding for over 20 years and I don't even get the physics of this trick.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       01-25-2010, 11:41 AM Reply   
no more of a off axis spin. but without a handle bgging you down you can get as creative as you want.

just like people on here saying they dont want to make wakeboarding into snowboarding why try to make snowboarding into wake?

in wakeboarding its very hard to tell what triuck they just did, IE was it a crow mobe 7 or 1080. zhow many rec riders or even core riders without contest experiance really know the difference between most tricks. Snowboarding not so much very simple to know.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-25-2010, 11:44 AM Reply   
Adam, that was absolutely insane!! How does he have any idea where he is in the air or what he is doing or when he is going to land??? I have a feeling that will only come out if it needs to, and with Danny Davis and Kevin Pearce out, it might not need to.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-25-2010, 12:06 PM Reply   
Okay it really looks like this needs some Clarification.

Snowboarding Double corks are something I have been following very closely for the last year. Really when they say "double cork," they are referring to the rider dipping his head twice, not really flipping twice unless you talk about Danny Davis' double Back or Shawn White Double Rodeo. Those are double flips.

Watch these Videos of Shaun White, he is dipping his head twice but not doing a double flip, really just a double cork. A cork in Snowboarding (rodeo/misty) is loosely like the equivalent of an Off Axis Spin, not really ever getting the board over there heads end over end.

As for someone being able to them on a wakeboard, I hope so, but the physics of wake boarding a lot different than those of snowboarding. I donít really think it could be done with a handle pass, I could see some taking a Mute Crow (i.e. Lyman or Watson) to a Double and that would be close to a double cork, but really in wakeboarding, at least in my opinion, spin = handle pass. So if you use that as the deciding factor, then a double Mute Crow would be just that, a double mute Crow not a double cork spin.

Check it out at:

http://www.shaunwhite.com/projectx/?fbid=1OLhGfnicPf
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       01-25-2010, 12:15 PM Reply   
Pretty simple to get this trick landed in wakeboarding.

Step 1: Find a boat big enough to create a true quarter-pipe wake. I am picturing every guest on a Carnival Cruise asked to get to the back-right of the boat for complimentary cocktails on the deck, then cruise at death speed.

Step 2: Invite Shaun out on the boat, as long as there is a board attached to his feet he would probably land it in just a couple tries.

I am sure Red Bull would foot the bill for everthing.
Old    Adam Levitt (alevitt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-25-2010, 12:26 PM Reply   
^^^^^
And you could have Pastrana jumping his rally car over the wave from barge to barge.
I would pay to see that.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-25-2010, 12:34 PM Reply   
Andy, I think for the double cork to be done on the wakeboard, the rider would definitely need to be wrapped up. I think a wrapped hs off axis three into pretty much a handle pass heel mobe would be definitely a double corked appearing trick and I think doable for the guys and what they are doing now.
Old    rich surguy (richsur)      Join Date: Jun 2007       01-28-2010, 5:55 AM Reply   
Wow Shaun White is insane.
Old    abner (bradmo42)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-28-2010, 6:43 AM Reply   
those last videos of shaun getting pulled up the hill behind the sled made me think "oh sh*t he could wakeboard too."

anyone ever heard of him wakeboarding?

-love watching shaun ride, he looks like he genuinely loves it.
Old    Alex Klimowsow (liquid_force24)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-28-2010, 7:20 AM Reply   
try this one :-)

double mctwist 12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHUMoFcZgJ0
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-28-2010, 10:53 AM Reply   
the closest thing we've got to rodeo tricks are the wrapped BS spins that benny g and harf are doing. those look almost identical to bs rodeo tricks. FS rodeo would be like an indy crow.

maybe something like shanes wrapped ole thingy would be a dbl corked thing..
Old     (hsryan33)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-28-2010, 11:18 AM Reply   
check out these kids on an trampoline. half way through they are doing all kinds of double cork tricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sVp9up_n0
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-28-2010, 12:08 PM Reply   
"And you could have Pastrana jumping his rally car over the wave from barge to barge.
I would pay to see that."

While catching a football thrown by Tim Tebow.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-28-2010, 12:55 PM Reply   
There are plenty of vids of Shaun White wakesurfing, with Shred Stixx I think. Youtube has it (not at work though doh).
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-28-2010, 12:57 PM Reply   
Stay on your toes, a "little birdy" informed me that these are closer than you think...likely to be seen this summer when everyone comes out of hibernation and training.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-28-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
The snowboarders should just get a voda trampboard and it would almost be identical to launching in the pipe not having to worry about handle passes or anything. The physical pull of the boat is what makes tricks on the tramp feel different than the water but there is no pull in snowboarding especially in the pipe.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-28-2010, 1:26 PM Reply   
true, but coming off a vertical ramp does feel different than coming off a horizontal trampoline
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-02-2010, 4:59 PM Reply   
1:55 in that video hsryan posted... triple cork or are my eyes deceiving me? He's "corked" by the time he starts spinning but I think he goes around thrice. YouTube needs a slow-motion option so bad. Trampoline videos are a dollar a dozen but those kids are doing some incredible stuff. Ever tried to do a flip, into a flip on the very next bounce on a trampoline? I find it damn near impossible. Nice.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       02-02-2010, 6:25 PM Reply   
What about Shane Bonifay's crazy off axis wrapped 7?
Old    vtrider01 (vtrider01)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-02-2010, 7:25 PM Reply   
<Snowboarding Double corks are something I have been following very closely for the last year. Really when they say "double cork," they are referring to the rider dipping his head twice, not really flipping twice unless you talk about Danny Davis' double Back or Shawn White Double Rodeo. Those are double flips.

Watch these Videos of Shaun White, he is dipping his head twice but not doing a double flip, really just a double cork. A cork in Snowboarding (rodeo/misty) is loosely like the equivalent of an Off Axis Spin, not really ever getting the board over there heads end over end.>


boom. cork, at a professional snowboarding/free skiing level, means your head goes below your feet during a spin. a flip is a speedball type rotation.
Old    Scooter (czap)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-02-2010, 10:45 PM Reply   
i dunno i think a double cork like toe 9 could be possible.. off toe 5 into a off back 3. the physics are there, I THINK, you would just need the biggest double up ever seen to boost it. maybe even wrap up the first 5 or somethin..

with back 10s and 12s bein landed now i would think it can be done
Old    Alek Emery (acerock88)      Join Date: May 2008       02-03-2010, 12:17 AM Reply   
Seems like a toeside double backroll to revert would be almost the same the same rotation as the double cork 10s that snowboarders are doing in the pipe.
Old    Sam Thomson (samthomson)      Join Date: May 2008       02-03-2010, 5:55 AM Reply   
Here's Mitch Langfield doing what he calls a hs double cork 7, not sure if it meets the above descriptions, but check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL_X7T5oZGw
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-03-2010, 10:17 AM Reply   
interesting looking trick, reminds me of Rathys backside Wrapped Ole spins
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       02-03-2010, 1:36 PM Reply   
hasnt Rathy done the same spin as Mitch
cool trick
Old    Nick C (wakedude83)      Join Date: Apr 2004       02-04-2010, 8:47 PM Reply   
I agree with scooter. Also with one of the spins being wrapped or ole. I think that's the way it can and will be done first.
Old    Georgi Petrov (georgi)      Join Date: Apr 2006       02-04-2010, 11:58 PM Reply   
I can do double dorks instead!
Old    Clay Fraley (clay_fraley)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-10-2010, 5:23 PM Reply   
Caleb you're so funny...nobody could catch a pass from tebow.
Old    Scooter (czap)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-10-2010, 9:28 PM Reply   
should be interesting to see what happens this summer for sure!

Im callin 2010 move of the year now.. double cork toe off 9
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       02-10-2010, 10:26 PM Reply   
I've watched so many snowboarding double corks and they litterally look like double flips to me, but whether they are double inverted spins or flips... I just feel like its been done

double halfcab roll and big worm
both seem like double cork 9s to me. But I'm all for seeing new variations of double corks :-)
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-11-2010, 9:50 AM Reply   
Hmmmm....Scooter...maybe we know the same people...or multiple people are going after the same trick...?
Old    Clay Fraley (clay_fraley)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-13-2010, 1:45 PM Reply   
Im not real sure about the big worm...you never go inverted twice so how is it a double cork? I've only done one but I don't remember ever going upside down twice
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-14-2010, 4:45 PM Reply   
I think it will be done, but the first "cork" has to come from a wrap. That's the only way I could see someone bucking in another direction like that. Wrap for the first 3, dip into an off axis 3 and land it. Done.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-14-2010, 4:52 PM Reply   
Also by the verbiage in this debate, that controversial/debated Phil Soven 1080 is now a 1080 fo' rills. By snowboarding standards it is. Think about it. They're much more liberal about what's a spin vs what's an invert. So yeah. Add Phil Soven to the 1080 club as of now if we're talking mixing inverts and counting rotations DURING inverts... which in wake we do not do often (exception is like backside mobe 5's and pete 5's, and that pete 7).

(Message edited by juniorhawk on February 14, 2010)
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       02-14-2010, 5:16 PM Reply   
The biggest difference based on the announcers during Winter X, is that a double cork means that the shoulder dips below the board twice. So most of the sweet wrapped off axis 7's and 9's that Rathy and them are doing would be considered a double cork. Not an end over end flip.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       02-14-2010, 10:13 PM Reply   
I think there are mixed opinions about what a double cork is.

To tell you the truth, it seems more like a flip to me, but grindtv refers to it as

"double-corks are two off-axis rotations, or diagonal flips"

http://www.grindtv.com/profile/mike+horn/blog/12849/the+double-cork+anatomy+of+olympic+snowboardings+must-have+halfpipe+trick/

I think the bigworm seems like 2 and a half off axis rotations to me
Old    David F (focker)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-14-2010, 10:30 PM Reply   
Erik - minus 5 points..

YOu would have lost 10 right there if not for putting up that old school Byerly video a while back.

"By snowboarding standards it is."

Phillip Soven did a Crow 7. Period.

I think it's safe to say that snowboarding standards are applicable to snowboarding, not wakeboarding. Did anyone protest the Daytona 500 today with some Formula 1 rules? Exactly.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-15-2010, 6:22 AM Reply   
Ouch David. My points loss is very very painful. It's going to take at least 7 seconds for me to get over it.

Oh Wow. I'm over it. Have a nice day David.

Jernberg@FUEL
http://www.fuel.tv/wakeboarding

(Message edited by juniorhawk on February 15, 2010)
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-15-2010, 8:14 AM Reply   
The point of this thread is whether wakeboarding will do a trick that snowboarding is doing, by snowboarding's standards..... which I would argue isn't possible till I was blue in the face until Erik's explanation, and I think that's the only way. Double corks have two dips of the shoulder, or two inverts during the spin that are off the original axis, 2 different axis' (axie??)...

So the Big Worm, any other spin that's been done on a wakeboard all go off axis, but only once, they need to go off onto another axis for it to be a double-cork.

Prob not impossible, but it doesn't include just spinning off axis, back on, and then continuing the rotation that going off axis' momentum takes the body, it's dipping it into a different axis, all while spinning. Watching snowboarders do it off kickers will give a much better idea on what's going on rather than the halfpipe.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-15-2010, 8:15 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXLPPZvD7c0

here's a cool vid most people should like
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-15-2010, 11:49 AM Reply   
These guys do stuff that I literally feel is impossible. Say the Pete Rose didn't exist and someone said "how about a toside roll with a 3 in it... where you come down blind". Welp. I'd say no funking way. But there it is!

Another mind blower - that WEEEIRD toeside front roll to blind, but the awkward/wrong/inside blind. Adkison does it. If I were his coach I'd say... no on paper that won't work buddy, you'll rip your rotator cuff on the first try. But he does em!

They will figure out a way, or convince us otherwise that they're doing them as part of modified wrapped 7's or, as a poster above said, a double toeside roll, but laid out more - almost ole for part 2 of the rotation.

My guess is that right now, they're working on them. Guys like Rathy, Adkison, Murray, really do the impossible due to their insane level of technical comfort on the water, and like... "positional knowledge" for lack of a better term, while in the air.

Another trick I'd say was impossible is Rathy's wrap, to ole, to handle pass 1080. You watch that and just say.... "My word. Holy ! How is that even possible!"

(Message edited by juniorhawk on February 15, 2010)
Old    Stephen Selby (stephisto47)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-15-2010, 12:23 PM Reply   
In the Nick Ennen video, what would a snowboarder call the "Tantrum to Blind" he does at 1:00?
Old    BIZZ (bizz)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-15-2010, 12:35 PM Reply   
Backside Rodeo is a Tantrum to Bind
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-15-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
You could do like BIZZ and just go for a Backside Rodeo 7 for your first try of the season.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-15-2010, 4:41 PM Reply   
would a backside rodeo 7 basically be a moby dick in wakeboarding terms?
Old    Paul Morgan (morgs)      Join Date: Nov 2005       02-16-2010, 1:27 AM Reply   
Kyle - Yes, i guess a back rodeo 7 is a moby dick.

Check Eiki doing some here - http://video.mpora.com/watch/axgZR0sss/
Old    Jordan (mastercraftboarder)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-21-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   
IMO, the double cork will never be exactly recreated behind a boat, it's just not something that can be done with a rope and a wake, you need more freedom of movement, and more vertical angle and air time
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-21-2010, 12:50 PM Reply   
Wow Paul that is one crazy kicker.
Old    Sean Fleming (fleming)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-19-2010, 10:42 PM Reply   
Not sure if anyone watched the US Open slopestyle today, but Mark McMorris ended up doing fairly well. Regardless, he not only kills it on a snowboard, he is also an amazing wakeskater and wakeboarder.

if anyone can do a legit double cork, my money's on him. check this video of him killing it on a snowboard:

http://vimeo.com/10045326
Old    Tyler Steeb (tsteeb)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-20-2010, 1:31 AM Reply   
i bet some of the cable guys could do them off kickers, get nick davies or tom fooshee on it

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