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Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-02-2010, 9:47 AM Reply   
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35197645/ns/us_news-military
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-02-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
Now you can join!
Old    Brandon Stroud (stroh)      Join Date: Apr 2008       02-02-2010, 10:00 AM Reply   
HA. That made me LOL.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-02-2010, 10:01 AM Reply   
The funny part is that Paul thinks that is an insult :-)
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-02-2010, 10:06 AM Reply   
Oh, sorry I didn't know. The door was wide open. I had to take it.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-02-2010, 10:09 AM Reply   
I'm straight and it's still not an insult. Crazy, I know.
Old                02-02-2010, 10:09 AM Reply   
Dont get but hurt about it Wes....


COMPLETELY KIDDING!
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-02-2010, 10:11 AM Reply   
I think you mean butt

COMPLETELY KIDDING! Wait, no I'm not...
Old                02-02-2010, 10:12 AM Reply   
LOL..I fail!
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-02-2010, 1:11 PM Reply   
I don't think that changes much. When I was in the AF I saw a lot of limp wrist-ed guys in uniform, and some women that had more hair on their chest than me
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-02-2010, 11:48 PM Reply   
Through my dog hobbies, I met another gay couple a couple of weeks ago. I have to say that they are super cool and very interesting people. Everyone who meets them digs them. This is just another example of how LAME it is to be concerned about other people's sexual inclination. It does not effect on me. It can never change me.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2010, 5:46 AM Reply   
I know many people who don't care about who serves and their sexual preferences, but to fully integrate gays into the military goes far beyond the typical homophobia. One simple example:

Women aren't forced to live and shower with men for obvious reasons. Why should a straight male or female be forced to live and shower with openly gay people. I'm not a homophobe in any way shape or form but I still don't want someone watching me in the shower. I know there are gays in the military now but at least the don't ask don't tell policy affords some type of privacy to all parties. If they want to integrate openly gay soldiers into the military it's not going to be as simple saying come on in.

For the record....I'd like to shower with Jennifer Aniston but I don't she'd appreciate me checking her out.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       02-03-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
Anybody who has been in the military knows that there are already many gays serving - probably more women than men. They do their job just like everybody else. And FYI you don't shower together - you've been watching too many prison movies. There are common areas but the showers and toilets are private - imagine that.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-03-2010, 6:59 AM Reply   
Anyone who goes to the gym is showering with gay folks. Get over it. They won't try anything.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2010, 7:10 AM Reply   
Big D I've served for 18 years now and have deployed plenty of times where community showers and group tents were standard so don't don't fill me in on conditions.

Before you all continue to make assumptions about my other post let me clarify. I know gays are there and I don't care. My intent was to point out in a subtle manner is that everyone has rights......including straight people.

Trace I'm not worried about anyone trying anything that's why I made the joke about showering with Ms Anniston. I wouldn't try anything either but I bet she would be uncomfortable. Get it???

(Message edited by bstroop on February 03, 2010)
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-03-2010, 7:44 AM Reply   
Everyone does know there are plenty of gays in the military, and so it's stupid to tell those people to not disclose their sexual orientation. If someone is too much of a homophobe to handle it, don't join the military. I don't think there are enough people in that category to make much difference. Gays are defending the country just as much as their heterosexual counterparts and shouldn't have to hide.
Old    swass            02-03-2010, 7:55 AM Reply   
Being gay does not equal sexual predator.

If you're in the military, chances are good that you've already paraded naked in front of a gay man. Did anyone try to touch your hiney or anything? If the policy changes, the only difference would be that you may now know who is gay. That man is still the same person he was yesterday - the only thing that has changed is your perception of him. That makes it a "you" problem.

(Message edited by swass on February 03, 2010)
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-03-2010, 8:05 AM Reply   
If everyone is serving then why bother changing the law? Talking about your sex life should not be part of the workplace regardless of straight or gay. It is just political grandstanding with no real change.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2010, 8:06 AM Reply   
I never said that anyone should hide it did I. I never said that gays don't do a great job defending the country did I? All of you obviously think that it's just going to be a simple regulatory guidance change and viola don't ask don't tell is wiped out. It's not going to be that easy. Does it need to change...yes. Is it going to be that simple.....no.

Playing devilís advocate though: Why is it appropriate for you to tell people to accept this and not join if you don't like it, but not tell gays that if they don't like the current policy don't join. You're not trying to successfully integrate a new policy. You're choosing one persons rights over another.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 8:09 AM Reply   
Big D, When I was in basic for the AF we had 1 shower bay with 8 shower heads with all 50 guys trying to shower in less than 5 minutes and all 50 guys naked. You're trying to get your stuff on in a panic rush in a small space with junk swinging around everywhere...it was a nightmare...so to correct you, no we didn't have private showers.


Could you imagine what its like for a gay dude being able to shower with a bunch of guys? They have to be extremely excited when shower time comes around. I know I'd be excited if they let me shower with a bunch of chicks.
Old    Becky George (bg__dereks_mom)      Join Date: Aug 2009       02-03-2010, 8:12 AM Reply   
If everyone is serving then why bother changing the law? Talking about your sex life should not be part of the workplace regardless of straight or gay. It is just political grandstanding with no real change.

I totally agree. That being said. anyone who serves is a hero in my book.
Old    swass            02-03-2010, 8:12 AM Reply   
Talk out both sides of your mouth much, Brian?

Allowing an openly homosexual man to join the military infringes upon your rights as a heterosexual man? Can you explain that, please?



(Message edited by swass on February 03, 2010)
Old    swass            02-03-2010, 8:14 AM Reply   
"Could you imagine what its like for a gay dude being able to shower with a bunch of guys? They have to be extremely excited when shower time comes around."

As a heterosexual male, you know this....how?
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2010, 8:16 AM Reply   
Swass,

maybe my posting is not conveying my overall feelings about this. I assure you that I don't have a problem with this so I don't think that I'm the problem. My ex and I have a handful of gay friends that continually razz me and yes "touch my hiney". I know it's harmless and I perfectly comfortable. I'm just pointing out something that is probably going to be a big deal to a large number of people who's feelings about this are going to be ignored. Although uncommon around here it's possible for someone to try and accomodate both parties and generate discussion.

Like delta said there's really no change happening. Maybe there's something alright about not talking about the elephant in the room.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2010, 8:24 AM Reply   
As far as the infringment of rights:

IMO no one is infringing on my rights as a hetero. But according to military policy yes they are. That's where my point about telling the hetero's not to join was directed.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-03-2010, 8:27 AM Reply   
"Talking about your sex life should not be part of the workplace regardless of straight or gay. It is just political grandstanding with no real change."


The problem is that if someone even mentions they are gay or it's found out, they can be kicked out of the military because of it. THAT is what needs to change and why this law will finally be changing.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 8:44 AM Reply   
"Could you imagine what its like for a gay dude being able to shower with a bunch of guys? They have to be extremely excited when shower time comes around."

As a heterosexual male, you know this....how?


I'll help you understand Swass. Gay males are attracted to other males. So for a gay guy taking a shower with other males would be the same as a hetrosexual guy being able to shower with women. Does this help?
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-03-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
My guess is that mentioning you are gay does not get you booted. You guys are telling the story that you all know plenty of gay people in the military but are missing the point that you know gay people in the military. It is just like all the people who supposedly know all these people are in prison for weed but smoke weed with all their buddies every weekend and think nothing about it. The reality is, they don't know anyone who is in prison for weed just like they don't know anyone who got kicked out of the military for being gay. If they did get kicked out, that may have been the "official" reason but the brass was nailing them for something else.
Old    swass            02-03-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
That helps me understand your phobia, yes. Thanks.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-03-2010, 8:57 AM Reply   
My brother spent a few weeks in LA County for weed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/02/AR2010020202588.html
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-03-2010, 8:59 AM Reply   
It's not a phobia swass it's reality. A phobia is being afraid of it. Reality is that it's a policy that is changing and there's more to look at than changing some words on a document with a keystroke.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 9:10 AM Reply   
Swass, have you ever served in the US Military?
Old    swass            02-03-2010, 9:42 AM Reply   
Yes.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 9:51 AM Reply   
Well you must have been a semen...I mean Seaman...jk
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 9:52 AM Reply   
I think we all know that gays already serve in the military. Logistically, there will be issues as Brian has pointed out. I have been serving for 13 years and can tell you there have been situations that would make it somewhat uncomfortable to be in close quarters with gays. For instance, a two man CHU in Iraq or Afghanistan with an "openly" gay member. It brings up some interesting points.

Should they room together? Currently Air Force are not allowed to room with members of the opposite sex while deployed to a combat zone or even have them visit their rooms to discourage the spread of disease and pregnancy. Will this apply to gays then? They can't room with others of the same sexual orientation?

I personally believe that if you raise your hand and want to serve, awesome. I think what Brian is trying to say is that it is not going to be as easy as many think to integrate. Will it be worth it in the end, hopefully.

One other thought, if the military is not going to exclude gays, should we also allow transgendered people to serve? What kind of logistical problems would that create? My point is, the military is not just concerned with fairness and equality, it must think of many other factors.

(Message edited by Ponyh8r on February 03, 2010)
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 9:52 AM Reply   
who cares.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
For all of you saying they don't actually boot people, I read today in our state newspaper that 13,500 people have been discharged since the policy began.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-03-2010, 9:55 AM Reply   
And many of them highly skilled translators. This has put a hurt on efforts and the military knows this. Now if only McCain would stop flip flopping :-p
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-03-2010, 9:56 AM Reply   
Caleb, a lot of that is people who want out of the military. They go to their superiors announcing they're gay and pretty much asking to be kicked out
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 10:02 AM Reply   
I think it's pretty egotistical to think gay guys are just gunning for your junk. Are you attracted to (non-hot) lesbians?

I would think it's a lot like being a straight male OB/GYN. You really think they have a chubby 8 hrs a day?
Old    Mike (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       02-03-2010, 10:06 AM Reply   
Sorry honey, if I see ONE MORE OF THOSE TODAY...
Old    dave c (dav51lin)      Join Date: Aug 2004       02-03-2010, 11:26 AM Reply   
^^^LMAO
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-03-2010, 3:30 PM Reply   
HAHAHA!

I used to work in a hospital and every once in a while you'd cruise through the ob/gyn dept and there would be some stunning chick in the waiting room - but mostly it looked like the waiting line at a day labor office.. no thank you.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-03-2010, 3:32 PM Reply   
LOL, dont sweat these guys on here. They are so homophobic that they over-defend the gay so that they dont appear to be homophobic. Happens on here all the time.

Bottom line is that human sexuality is a tricky thing. We understand that the separation of sexual compatibilities is appropriate and prove it back separating the women from the men. Women and men deserve the ability to not be objectified from their sexually compatible associates. Throwing homosexuality into the mix is fine for the work environment, but men and women still deserve the right to be separated from those who find them sexually compatible when they arent clothed.

Its the same policy for heteros and should not be withheld from the homos.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2010, 3:32 PM Reply   
Benjamin; The point I was trying to get off was that they DO enforce the rule if people are getting booted for it. Even if a few of those people were faking, it isn't something they should be punished for.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-03-2010, 3:33 PM Reply   
Great! This is going to be a lawyers dream! Let the sexual harassment suits from the same sex begin.

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