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Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-15-2010, 3:51 PM Reply   
I have decided that I want some weight up front this season. I'm hoping it will make the wake a little rampier (not so steep) as well as lengthen the sweet spot on the surf wake.

I don't want any exposed bags, nor do I want to wait for pumps to fill them up. Lead seems expensive, messy, and I don't know how to get it.

How about this idea?

Get a bunch of 4" or 6" PVC pipe, cut to about 18" lengths, cap one end, fill with concrete, then cap the other end. Rinse and repeat until I get to 500 lbs.

I'm thinking this will be cheap, provide lots of weight, and make it easy to move that weight around if necessary. The pipes should stack neatly beneath the front seats.

Thoughts?



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Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-15-2010, 4:06 PM Reply   
Pop bags would be far more ideal but if you don't want to spend the money on those then I don't see why those things wouldn't work. The other thing I have heard is to fill PVC with sand. I am not sure which one is heavier.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2010, 4:28 PM Reply   
The round shape would make them roll around easily & not fully utilize the allotted space. Square would be best. And any way of making them more dense would weigh more... ie; lead, steel, sand, etc.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-15-2010, 4:46 PM Reply   
Is sand more dense than concrete?

Where do I get pop bags? What are they? I know, dumb question but I honestly don't know.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-15-2010, 4:49 PM Reply   
http://www.metaltecsteel.com/shot_bags/shot_bags.asp

This one is Pop-Products which seem to be well known on wakeworld. They conform so compartments, have handles and are in 40# bags so they are easy to move.

http://www.pop-products.com/
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2010, 4:53 PM Reply   
Yes, sand & water are more dense & have less air than concrete.

Another idea people have bounced around these forums is steel or lead shot available at gun ranges. The Pop products is the idea..... but shipping 500 lbs of it might be a bit expensive.
Old    dhcomp (dhcomp)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-15-2010, 5:05 PM Reply   
Concrete sounds heavy, but really isn't that dense.

Start looking up specific weights (density) of different concretes, and compare to water, lead, etc.

For the small tubes, i'd use sand, Way easier than mixing concrete and pouring into 2" tubes.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-15-2010, 5:37 PM Reply   
I did the same thing but filled them with lead shot. They worked out to under a buck a pound and work great.
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-15-2010, 6:03 PM Reply   
I have a bunch of tubes filled with lead. They are hard to move around, but we can arrange them such that they don't move around. We put ballast bags on top of them.
Old    Greg C (v220ls)      Join Date: Aug 2004       01-15-2010, 6:40 PM Reply   
DBC:
That's how mine boat is weighted, works great I filled most of mine with rebar then concreted over it. The two in my bow weight 105 each. The ones in my trunks are 110lbs ea. I made a wooden frame that holds them in place. While the concrete is still wet, attach a handle to each tube, makes it easy to move around. I have 6 in the rear. Quick to move from side to side to surf! I couldn't find a good deal on lead, but that would be good also. I had sand bags before was always scared they would break open.
Old    Stuey (stuey)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-15-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
LOVE my pop bags. Keep 10 bags (400 lbs) in my boat all the time, unless going away and towing 4+ hours somewhere for a weekend. Super easy to move around and shape where you want it to. I usually leave em under my bow cushions and I still have room for anchor, ropes, buoys, etc. If we're surfing, I take 2-3 bags and put it on the surf side back corner for some extra weight, then pile the other 7-8 bags on ONE side of the bow. Really makes it lean doing that as all the weight is distributed over the center and surf side of the boat, with nothing on the opposite side.

For the $400 or so I spent on it, its worth it then messing around making your own
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-15-2010, 9:52 PM Reply   
Greg C:

How wide is your PVC? How long did you make each tube?


One of the reasons I want to try this on the cheap is just to experiment how well it will work and what it will do to my wake. If I love it, maybe I'll invest in pop bags.

Finally, who said that concrete is less dense that water? If that were true, concrete would float, right?

I did a little research:

Water = 62.4 lbs / cu. ft.
Sand = 90 lbs / cu. ft.
Concrete = 148 lbs / cu. ft. (2.4x denser than water)

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2010, 10:25 PM Reply   
That would be me. Surprises me. I'll have to dig a little more.

More power to ya. We have done some testing with weight in the bow with a lot less work & expense though. Just have a couple of buddies' 200 lbs asses move up front for a bit & see what happens.
Old    mike asch (mikea)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-16-2010, 4:35 AM Reply   
I made something similar to your idea.

I started with tire weights. (I know a guy that repairs wheels = free)
Then I used large luandry detergent containers. I duct taped the heck out of if it, to re-enforce the corners and handle.
(don't duct tape over the lid/screw cap)
I filled the containers with the lead weights.
I put these in the back of my truck for 2 days. My thought was the vibrations from driving would make everything settle, as compact as possible.
Then I added more weights + driving, then I did the same with sand , to fill in voids.

These weights are around 70# (that is a guess).
I have been using them for 3 years. The weights do not move around too much.
They have a handle (for easy moving, of a 70# brick)
I have even used one of these as stern anchor for temporary moring.
I add more duct tape every year, because I fear the mess this would make if it broke open.

hope this info helps.
Old    Dave (captain_542)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-16-2010, 9:18 AM Reply   
i remember a video a few months back that was showing how Gerry Nunn was weighting his Malibu LSV. Im fairly certain he rain two or three PVC pipes down the center aisle underneath his ballast bags. Ill try to look for the video.
Old    Roger Stratford (rlsv211)      Join Date: Oct 2009       01-16-2010, 9:47 AM Reply   
Before I went through all of that I would try bags to see if you get the improvement you want and the weight you need. Some boats don't improve much with weight in the front. Some boat it makes a big difference. I have a SV 211. I need about 200-250 in the front. More makes no difference. Tried to surf without it on Christmas eve and it was a big difference. I know some guys with Sangers and they do not like any weight. Just an Idea.
Old    Greg C (v220ls)      Join Date: Aug 2004       01-16-2010, 11:51 AM Reply   
DBC:
My tubes are 4inch ID very similar to the ones you have in the pictures. My longest ones are in the rear trunks, about 34 inches long. I first used caps that fit on the inside of the tube. Tapped in to place while the concrete is still wet. I switched them to outside ones like in your pictures. I made racks similar to gun racks in a pickup to hold them from sliding or rolling. That was the hardest part, routering the curves in the wood to hold them and removing the floor covering over my tanks to bolt from the bottom up with carriage bolts, so my hard tanks wouldn't get damaged.
The longest time is waiting for the concrete to dry? They only took me a couple of hours, and maybe 50-75 dollars in materials.
I bound together like six to seven pieces of rebar in each tube for little extra weight, capped one end filled with quikcrete mounted handles and let dry.
It was much cheaper than lead for me, at the time mine are like two or three years old?
I will try to get a picture if I can of the mounting I made.

(Message edited by V220LS on January 16, 2010)
Old    Greg C (v220ls)      Join Date: Aug 2004       01-16-2010, 11:59 AM Reply   
Oh yeah, you might add aggregate to the bottom of the tubes and then concrete, Verse the rebar some one said that might be heavier? My plan was to be able to remove if I towed a long distance so it wouldn't be so hard on my trailer? I just stack them in my tow rig on longer hauls?

(Message edited by V220LS on January 16, 2010)

(Message edited by V220LS on January 16, 2010)
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-16-2010, 12:24 PM Reply   
You just got me to thinking. I went to a shooting range and got probably 300# of lead (for free). After I got it, I decided that trying to melt it and pour it into molds it wasn't smart due to its toxicity. But what about mixing it with concrete and pouring the mixture into PCV pipes? That might work.

I've put steel shot in plastic containers of all sizes, shapes, and thicknesses. My experience is that most plastic degrades after awhile (even when covered with tape), and then you have a mess.
Old    Dhtige Hill (dh03r6)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-17-2010, 7:12 AM Reply   
I used plastic storage containers from home depot, they come in every size and shape. Before i filled them i put rope through the sides so i could move it. When it set i broke the container and chipped of any sharp edges. Many size options and they wont roll.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-18-2010, 12:50 AM Reply   
we used to use chlorine bottles to put the lead tire weights into. the thickness of the plastic chlorine containers held up for much longer than we actually used them for, which was about 4 or 5 years. ended up selling them and as far as i know they are still holding strong.

I also melted the tire weights on a camping stove outside and poured them into a mold which i dug out of the dirt on the side of the house and then put 2 of them together and slid them both into pvc pipe and capped them off. those worked great too.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-18-2010, 11:50 AM Reply   
Jason, after you melted the tire weights did you just let the small metal attatchment piece mix in with the melt?? I have 500 lbs of tire weights that i would like to melt. Did you do it on a gas burner (outside) like the turkey fryers come with?
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-18-2010, 12:27 PM Reply   
the first round i used a metal cooking spoon with drains to pull the metal out of the hot lead but it became cumbersome so i just left em in. I used a old camp stove that we didnt use anymore.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-18-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
We did it on an old Weber BBQ, burning whatever we could find, briquets, wood, paper, etc. Placed the tire weights in a cake pan & ended up with weights about the size & shape of bricks. I think they weighed about 25 or 30 lbs each. Then we carpeted them with indoor/outdoor carpet & Liquid Nails.
Old    Mark V (mark197)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-18-2010, 2:16 PM Reply   
If you guys are melting lead make sure you do it outside because the fumes are terrible for you.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-18-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
A friend of mine did the cake pans deal too. after they had cooled they drilled two holes in one end and ran some ski rope through to make a handle for easy carrying.

One thing to remember is you want to cover the bare lead with something to seal em up so if it gets wet it doesnt seep anything onto wherever you place it. While the stuff is a wakeboarders best friend it is very toxic.

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