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Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-08-2010, 1:01 PM Reply   
So the question is, is Bob as good as his older brother Phil now? He has the 10 and looks DAMN close on the 12. He lands like he is being placed down on a pillow and definitely has a style of his own. People criticize Phil for being robotic and even though he has crazy grabs on all of his tricks, it almost seems like he is a parrot, the master impersonator so to speak. I happen to love his riding but he takes the best tricks of the best pros and generally does them EXACTLY the same. If I were to make a wild guess, we will be seeing Rathy's oa toe back 5 in his run and Harf's hs bs oa 7. The whirlydick is pretty much the only trick that is his own, and I have a feeling it will stay that way. I wish more videos came out of his riding.
Here is Bob's last video from riding with Chad Sharpe:
http://vimeo.com/8379383

This should bring about a nice debate

(Message edited by lfxstar on January 08, 2010)
Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-08-2010, 1:11 PM Reply   
Is he technically as good? No.
Is he more fun to watch? Yes.
Old    Paul Bernier (wakeriderixi)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-08-2010, 1:13 PM Reply   
That KGB-5 attempt and Moby Dick looks very painful.
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-08-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
I cant watch any vids at the mo because of interweb limiting.

But i was talking about this the other day with my g/f and I kinda reackon phil still has it. I just watch the truth & and am blown away every time. He does take every ones invert but tends to add a 180 haha.

eeeerrrrrmmm yeah phil for now.
Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-08-2010, 1:17 PM Reply   
Is a 3+ year old video the best evidence of whether or not someone still "has it?"
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-08-2010, 1:18 PM Reply   
No. But it still blows me away. he cant of forgot many tricks
??
Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-08-2010, 1:31 PM Reply   
Oh yeah...I'm just saying that if a rider just did the same stuff for 3 years straight and didn't learn anything new or mix it up, that would be pretty lame.
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-08-2010, 1:43 PM Reply   
srry i just read my own post. when i said 'has it' i was refering to who's ahead between phil and bob. I didnt mean current mojo or anyhing.

I reackon my & other peoples minds may be changed soon. its exciting to se what comes up.

I remeber discusing a tantrum fs 360 with a fiend and trying to go through the logistics of wheither it was possible (without turning it into a slim) i kinda thought naaahhh. The next day bob was all over the place with his bdb
Old    Jason Shehan (norcalbordr)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-08-2010, 2:00 PM Reply   
oh god, Paul you're right, that KGB 5 looked soooo painful. That kid rips though.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-08-2010, 2:13 PM Reply   
It is just weird that no matter how good Phil is and how tech everyone of his tricks are, they just seem so robotic. It is like everything is planned and there is no spontaneity to his riding. Even now that he has toned his runs down to fit the new format, when he does a huge grab 180, bs or fs, it is like he isn't doing it because he wants to do it. He does it because everyone else is opening their run with it so now he has too. I almost find it funny that he was doing a hs 5 into the flats as one of his tricks because that just isn't Phil, it is Rusty or Lyman. Personally this is why he didn't do as well on the tour this year because he toned his run down so much to be like the other pros that he stopped doing Phil. He was rarely even doing a toe 9 which for him is a consistent trick that was ALWAYS in his run and the only reason other riders weren't doing them as much is because they are still somewhat of a risk.

Bob's style is definitely his own. He looks like he is having a ton of fun on the water and really trying to progress his riding and the sport. Phil does not look like he is ever having fun on the water.

(Message edited by lfxstar on January 08, 2010)
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-08-2010, 3:22 PM Reply   
Even if the Truth is 3 years old that's the type of phil I like to see!
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-08-2010, 4:36 PM Reply   
Dang, Phil cannot catch a break on here, can he?

Can no-one admit that he's an unbelievably talented rider, PERIOD.

There's always a caveat, "Phil is great BUT . . ."

I guess it's not as bad as the all out hate fest that filled these boards when Phil totally dominated. Remember the numerous threads about how someone "heard" how Phil was a jerk?

It's funny but I guess people just can't respect the guy on top. Shapiro had his "no style" detractors back when he was on top and even Parks did too.

List me as the one person who thinks Phil has amazing style. The Truth was increbile. His riding is still incredible.

Oh, and Bob's an amazing rider too.
Old    TS (kcrider)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-08-2010, 4:49 PM Reply   
I know I'm going to get some comments from this but I think Rusty is the most robotic rider out there. When he tries to put style in his tricks it looks like he is way too stiff. It just doesn't look good at all. I'm not saying he isn't amazing it just he should stay away from being stylish because well he's not. Phil on the other hand looks so much more smooth when he grabs and holds his tricks. Bob is going to be the best of both worlds.
Old    TS (kcrider)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-08-2010, 4:50 PM Reply   
Sorry I guess this is just for the Soven boys. Sorry to hijack this with a Rusty comment
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-08-2010, 5:09 PM Reply   
Hey, I was giving Phil a break.I know it's not worth loosing a contest over if it goes bad,I just wish he would throw some style back in there & have fun! I would love to have one tenth of the skill of Jason, let alone Bob or Phil....
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-08-2010, 5:23 PM Reply   
TS, yeah your right, Rusty's all stiff looking and has no style at all. How did I not see that.

Upload

Hi Phil & Bob
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-08-2010, 5:26 PM Reply   
Well contests kind of require you to be stylish now, if you want any chance of winning. I don't think your post is going to change the way Rusty decides to ride. Rusty and Phil aren't my personal favorites for style... but to say that they have "no style" is nonsense.

Phil is a contest machine, when the format changes his style does too. Anyone that has beef with that probably doesn't get paid to wakeboard for a living.

"Whirly dick is pretty much the only trick that is his own"... umm grabbed whirly 5, whirly 5 behind a jetski, moby dick 7, melan crow mobe 7, aswell as plenty of other moves that others do, but Phil does the move differently. And since we're throwing tricks out there that haven't been landed... Phil has came very close to a w2w 10.

Bob, is straight killing it right now. One of my favorite riders to watch and he has a ton of skill too. Completely different style from Phil and I like that. We're going to see more great things from him.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-08-2010, 5:33 PM Reply   
David Miller, you are telling someone that gets paid to have fun for a living... to have fun... :/

Phil has a style all his own whether you like his or not... if you don't, you don't... but don't tell him he should have more style
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-08-2010, 5:50 PM Reply   
These threads always amaze me. Both Sovens are very talented riders and both have style. It's always easy to be a keyboard cowboy and say this or that doesn't look good from the privacy of your office or home. Each rider has a style of their own. I think Phil is enjoying himself a lot more these days. I feel his technical ability is a style in it's own right. He makes the most difficult tricks look so graceful.

By the way this is my 3400th post....
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-08-2010, 5:53 PM Reply   
Sure why not! But he doesn't need my input I'd prefer to watch him free-ride....
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-08-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
Congrat's on the 3400!
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-08-2010, 6:07 PM Reply   
I'll never catch Umali....
Old    John Riley (wake2wake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-08-2010, 6:32 PM Reply   
http://vimeo.com/8445836 pretty sure it is a KGB 5 he lands at 4:40 in his Day in the Life
Old    Codi Northam (bogartsomeday)      Join Date: Mar 2009       01-08-2010, 11:47 PM Reply   
Phil is nothing short of a talented/amazing rider. BUT....he is very boring to watch. He has nearly all the tricks in his bag but there's absolutely no "Phil Soven style" to his tricks. I guess the only way to spot him out of a group of riders is look for the one who doesnt have any style. And Im sorry but just grabbing a spin or invert does not claim enough justice to consideration of "style". Style is more like a grab, poke, hold the trick, and throw somethin like a 180 or 360 last minute. Phil has always been a comp rider in my perspective. It also doesnt help that whenever I see him on interviews or at the PWT, he comes off as a total egotistical d!**. It doesnt take anything away from his talent but it takes more than just your riding to get my support. You see almost all other pros in videos all the time trying new things behind the boat PLUS with a winch and pushing the sport to new levels and features, I have yet to see phil do anything for the sport of wakeboarding other than trying to win a comp. Thats my $0.02
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-09-2010, 1:13 AM Reply   
^^^^^^
Dang, I'll bet Phil's going to really be bummed that he doesn't have Codi Northam's "support." I'll bet the riders you do "support" high five themselves every night knowing you "support" them.

Codi, do you really think Phil couldn't "grab, poke, hold the trick, and throw somethin like a 180 or 360 last minute?" If he did, you'd scream that he was a style copycat. But he's not a style copycat. The kid has his own style, you just don't like it.

I think this largely comes from the Alliance mentality that you can't have style if you win contests, i.e. you're a comp rider. And since Alliance is/was gospel to so many style police wakeboarders, Alliance's view of "core style" keeps being perpetuated.
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-09-2010, 2:57 AM Reply   
The whole keyboard jockey thing......I like it! I have a custom Warhammer Online keyboard and a special game pad.

Cant type for i still got it ha.

My main point i thought was id kill for a wakeboard/wakeworld one. Give us keyboard jockeys somthing to ride!...wakeboard shaped keyboard?

I dont think you can use a photo to analise someones style. It's a good indicator but....urm.....mmhhh video is best.

I reackon phil has got lots and lots of flow. nothing is jerky...I like that. he looks really really comfy on a board. style is a really really personal thing! some may like shane some like parks and others like phil. Those are the only three options hahaha jk.

Some one once described style as taking somthing really hard and making it look like a walk in the park. While individual flair doesnt come into that description i think its a good starting point. I think phil can make anything look easy.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-09-2010, 4:11 AM Reply   
Let me go back and clarify something. I personally think Phil Soven is the most talented rider in the world right now and has been for the past couple years with Danny Harf tying him or maybe being a litttle bellow him even. That being said (and it is only being said because he is the best and as the best you get criticized) he does lack that spontaneity that the other guys have. Another example is when the nuclear glide got popular, he threw it right into his run. To me his runs have always been an impersonation of the top couple of guys biggest tricks (so they didn't have anything over Phil) then Phil would throw in two or three more tricks they couldn't do and win. It looked like you just watched the exact same run twice, and the pros were definitely pissed about that. Last year instead of doing his own thing, he did it again and it cost him. If you look at Harley last year, he did what Phil used to do which I am going to coin as "speed bangers" lol. He got in more tricks that were more tech than everyone else. There were no hs 5s in his run because that wasn't his game and his start off style trick was that batwing to blind/bs oa 180 grabbed or occassionally a big stale glide. He then had 3 mobe 5 variations: slim chance 5, crow 5, and whirly 5, with a bs 7 and a toe 9 in his run and he was never punished on style points because of it. I think Phil is going to revert back to this kind of riding this year and probably take the tour. No offense to Rathy whatsoever but he should not be beating Froggy if Froggy does what he can do. I can guarantee he will have a oa ts bs 5 and knowing frog maybe even 7 in his run to match Rathy's banger and a switch and regular toe 9 back to back (because that is what rusty is doing now). That coupled with a skeezer 5 or 7 if he has it dialed, his whirlydick, harfs nuc roll to blind or blind Pete, adkisons method heel mobe, shanes dum dum, and harfs hs bs oa 5/7 and he will be unstoppable again.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-09-2010, 4:39 AM Reply   
Codi, in Phildos defense the kid is a GOD on the cable. If he had the airtricks like Nick Davies does, he would be one of the best cable riders in the world. He does things on the rails and kickers that no one else can do. I have heard that he has matured a lot, but I can tell you from multiple personal encounters we was an egotistical Richard. No matter how long the line was at OWC was he would always cut in front of it, and the kids would tell him "dude WTF are you doing etc etc" and he would give some snide remark. It really made me resent him along with pretty much every other person at odub, but like I said, he doesn't do stuff like that anymore (hopefully). That's why he never used to ride with anyone on the tour and you would never see videos of him because frankly NO ONE liked him. He definitely seems to have mellowed out a ton though, I mean you kind of have to to be Rathy's roommate. The stories I've heard from a couple of my buddies on tour a few years ago were hysterical though. Let's just say they were not very nice to him at all.

Phil's rep has definitely hurt him though, take a look at his sponsors compared to everyone else. Rip It energy drink???, no fear, body glove (making good stuff now), and he just changed from UTOPIA optics to Spy and obviously Malibu and LF. Compared to other guys though that have Fox, Billabong, Monster/Red Bull, Reef, Von Zipper/Spy, jet pilot etc etc his sponsors were pretty weak in relation to his ability. What the hell is Rip It energy drink??? I have never even seen it in the store. It seems that his contracts are running out so he is able to get better companies like Spy, but riding for Utopia is just another example of his style problems, same with no fear and body glove.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-09-2010, 4:41 AM Reply   
Codi, in Phildos defense the kid is a GOD on the cable. If he had the airtricks like Nick Davies does, he would be one of the best cable riders in the world. He does things on the rails and kickers that no one else can do. I have heard that he has matured a lot, but I can tell you from multiple personal encounters we was an egotistical Richard. No matter how long the line was at OWC was he would always cut in front of it, and the kids would tell him "dude WTF are you doing etc etc" and he would give some snide remark. It really made me resent him along with pretty much every other person at odub, but like I said, he doesn't do stuff like that anymore (hopefully). That's why he never used to ride with anyone on the tour and you would never see videos of him because frankly NO ONE liked him. He definitely seems to have mellowed out a ton though, I mean you kind of have to to be Rathy's roommate. The stories I've heard from a couple of my buddies on tour a few years ago were hysterical though. Let's just say they were not very nice to him at all.

Phil's rep has definitely hurt him though, take a look at his sponsors compared to everyone else. Rip It energy drink???, no fear, body glove (making good stuff now), and he just changed from UTOPIA optics to Spy and obviously Malibu and LF. Compared to other guys though that have Fox, Billabong, Monster/Red Bull, Reef, Von Zipper/Spy, jet pilot etc etc his sponsors were pretty weak in relation to his ability. What the hell is Rip It energy drink??? I have never even seen it in the store. It seems that his contracts are running out so he is able to get better companies like Spy, but riding for Utopia is just another example of his style problems, same with no fear and body glove.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-09-2010, 6:43 AM Reply   
"I dont think you can use a photo to analise someones style." " in Phildos defense ". What is this, The Andy Dick show now?
Old    what what (snowman89)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-09-2010, 9:57 AM Reply   
I feel like phil soven has some straight gangster style now maybe that's just me. I don't think any tech tricks ever look that stylish and if you watch him do basic stuff it looks real good. To me his style looks very similar to aaron rathy's who everyone loves to watch.
Old    david (dnp33)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-09-2010, 4:14 PM Reply   
that vid day in the life of bob soven was so sick. to me bob's riding stood out alot compared to alot of other riders i've seen.
but i think to rate one rider over another is kind of pointless. i mean i think phil has some sick style to, but its totally different then bob so comparing them is useless.
sometimes i wonder how many people who "don't support phil" are only reading things on wakeworld about how they think he is a robot and all his tricks are the same and he copies everyone else.
that being said, if the story's about him cutting in line, and being a huge true (or were true) that is also not cool, and i would have a hard time supporting him (meaning buying products they are sponsered by) unless he has legitimately changed his way's.
Old    nick green (aussie_rider)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-09-2010, 8:27 PM Reply   
how do you reckon the sport of wakeboarding (and others) progress? by copying each others styles and trick list. if we wernt allowed to use each others tricks, then what would wakeboarding be like?
Old    Codi Northam (bogartsomeday)      Join Date: Mar 2009       01-09-2010, 11:09 PM Reply   
Josh B- Sorry to hurt your feelings about talking down about phil, buuuut im obviously not the only who thinks he's a straight douch*. Kyle lfxstar see's what im talking about, he's even had a few personal encounters with him. Sponsors and SUPPORTERS are not only about the bag of tricks you have, its also about being a good teammate/representative of the company. I thought this about phil prior to even knowing wakeworld existed, and I also thought phil is a d!** without reading alliance (cause i dont read alliance). BTW josh, if it werent for the "fans support", some pros wouldnt have their pro model boards manufactured because there would be no one buying them, and companies sponsor pros who they feel people "support" because they want their product sold.
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       01-10-2010, 1:29 PM Reply   
style is all about your own perception, as I have said before any rider looks good in slow motion on dvd, and some people are really blinded by this.
most guys only get to see the pro's ride in videos and not in real life.
I hate when guys get on here and rave on about how good snowboarding events are and how wakeboarding should be like snowboarding. I have watched many snowboard events and they all do the same tricks, sure their freestyle riding is different, where they go over big gaps and can hold a grab, again they all do the same sort of tricks with the same grab.
End of the day Phil is a great rider which nobody can deny
Old    shane mckenna (mckenna)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-10-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
i rate phils riding. his section in the truth owned. more people should put him in vids.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-10-2010, 3:21 PM Reply   
Steven Hahn said it best. Bottom line.
Old    anthemwake (anthemwake)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-10-2010, 7:34 PM Reply   
^^^ srsly. he's never going to catch umali.
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       01-11-2010, 2:34 AM Reply   
Phil knows I can woop his butt anyday out on a board, he's got nothin, hahahahahaha
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-11-2010, 4:36 AM Reply   
Harley, I hope he does so we can start seeing his old tech runs instead of the runs he did last year. This is going to be the best year on tour hands down with how good everyone is riding. How sick would it be if MURRAY won a stop this year. I honestly think with the new format Darin could do really really well. It fits his style of going huge into the flats perfectly. Huge back 5, huge toe 7, osmosis 5, front to blind, beesting, that new under rope bs 180, sbend to blind, crow mobe and Pete 20 feat out and the speed ball. That would take down most of the runs right there
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-11-2010, 10:26 AM Reply   
They both rip but Bob definately looks like he has more fun doing whatever he is doing. I think for the general population that is more apealing. The kid always has a smile on his face or is doing something sarcastic. He seems super marketable.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-11-2010, 12:46 PM Reply   
Both have most likely read this and had a good chuckle.

Umali has 15804 posts in 9 years. That's almost 34 posts a month. So theoretically, If I posted twice a day for 9 years I could surpass him!
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-11-2010, 3:13 PM Reply   
Well, Upload
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-11-2010, 5:21 PM Reply   
I don't know, but I think it's hilarious that in the new video on www.thewakeplace.com that Bob has a "Twilight: New Moon" t-shirt on!
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-12-2010, 10:45 AM Reply   
Was watching The Truth and thought of this thread. I agree, Phil has no style:

Upload

Haha
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-12-2010, 12:32 PM Reply   
Same age old debate - change the name...

Shaprio, Kovak, Brandon Johnson, Parks (early days) and now these guys.

They all have the same thing in common. They are so good at doing the hardest tricks in the world (most with a grab), that it looks too easy. They just don't look as pretty as the next guy. Go back and look at old kovak or shaprio and you realize how damn good and technical they were.

I think Soven make not look flowing like watson, but he is doing much harder tricks and grabbing most of them in an unconventional location.
Old    Ryan Jones (ryanjones)      Join Date: Nov 2007       01-12-2010, 1:28 PM Reply   
Guys,
Each generations should help out the next in this sport. Bob is riding at a new level. He is on top of his game and working really hard to get better. Bob would not be as good if not for being around Phillip all of these years. While Bob has landed some new tricks this year that he has learned from other riders. Phillip has tricks no one else has done yet. I think it is wrong to judge the difference between the two.
Phillip- One of the best.
Bob- going to be one of the best.
The buck doesn't stop there. They have a little brother named Jason. He is already in the top spot in his young division and will be one of the best..
The Soven's have wakeboarding in their blood, and their is no need to compare them.
Old    Adam Levitt (alevitt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-13-2010, 10:07 AM Reply   
Gotta say that it looks like Bob has the time of his life everytime he straps in: http://tinyurl.com/y8pbfdd
Maybe it's something about the stoke?

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