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Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-02-2010, 4:56 PM Reply   
Hey guys. I have a 2005 F-250 and am looking to get a chip or programmer for it. I already have an exhaust system and air intake on it. What my question is about the chips and programmers is are there any that can be removed and set back to stock so that there is no sign that it was ever there so it wont void my warranty. I am looking at getting one that is good for towing. I don't care about racing my truck just to go fast. I just want something that will give me a little more power while towing and help on the GPH too.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-02-2010, 5:10 PM Reply   
I'm hearing more rumblings about smog inspections in CA on diesels....I'm holding off any mods on my 08 PSD until i can get the straight scoop....
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-02-2010, 5:19 PM Reply   
i know that they're going to start smogging the diesels but I had heard it was only 06 or 07 and above. If thats true then my 05 would be fine.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-02-2010, 5:32 PM Reply   
Something tells me this is going to get ugly for CA diesel guys....98 and newer according to what Ive been reading.

Any Smog Inspection guys on the board that can give the scoop???

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARResources/05_Legislative/RegulatoryActions/FAQs%20for%20Diesels%2012-24-09_Final.pdf
Old     (tro)      Join Date: May 2009       01-02-2010, 5:36 PM Reply   
from the guys i know that have diesels and programmers and chips - the computer tracks that it was modified or re-programmed even if you restore it to factory settings - there is still code that shows it was altered and messes with your warranty. i'm not sure if they are telling me the truth, but i know one guy who's warranty was voided after he roasted his engine. he took the programmer off and swore to the dealer that it had never been messed with and the dealer supposedly told him the computer's code showed it had been altered. at least that's what my friend told me.
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       01-02-2010, 5:40 PM Reply   
Smarty programmers don't leave a fingerprint if you remove it. I have a Smarty Jr in my 07 Dodge mega cab.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-02-2010, 7:53 PM Reply   
I've been looking at a couple online and i've found one thats called The Workhorse Ultimate Power. On its web site it states that its warranty friendly and leaves no foot print on factory computer. It adds 90hp but its non adjustible. Just one setting.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-02-2010, 7:55 PM Reply   
Most newer programmers ride "piggyback" on the ECM and dont show up if removed. 98 and newer is what Im hearing right now. It will be only a visual inspection to check for engine codes and that OEM equipment is still present. Any aftermarket pieces with C.A.R.B or whatever approval will be ok, and a smoke at idle visual test as well. It looks easy to get around... for now.
Old    Jeff Hill (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-02-2010, 8:11 PM Reply   
While I have your attention.....I have been seeing Bio diesel @ AM/PM. Can I run that in my 99 power stroke without issue? It is a bit cheaper but not sure if it will cause problems or not. Thanks ....
Old    Jonny (wakeboardlasvegas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-02-2010, 8:11 PM Reply   
Had my 04 Dodge smogged the last 6 years with a programmer and never a problem. Why do you guys think YOURS will have a problem? You guys get WAY to wound up on this, put it back to factory to get it tested and even a mild tuner will prob pass.

Look at how many POS cars are on the road right now and they are passing. Personally the emissions thing is nothing more then a revenue builder for the state. Simple as that.
Old    Brian (99sportster)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-02-2010, 8:51 PM Reply   
Go to a Ford truck site like http://www.thedieselstop.com/ and search for programmer recommendations. Two popular programmers for Ford diesels are SCT and Edge.
Old    WAKEMAKER01 (wakemaker01)      Join Date: Mar 2009       01-02-2010, 10:03 PM Reply   
Before you even think about a programer you better get your egr replaced if you dont you will blow your motor!
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       01-02-2010, 10:26 PM Reply   
Jeff, if I remember correctly, you can. HOWEVER, the bio has a tendancy to clean the grime real well in your tank, which then clogs the fuel filter and then the injectors. Your going to want to keep an eye out on your filter. And change it often till you got the grime out. Should be good after that
Old    Jeff Hill (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-02-2010, 11:17 PM Reply   
Thanks Matt.....I thought I heard someone comment the same thing but couldn't remember.
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-02-2010, 11:47 PM Reply   
I have had Superchips, BullyDog, Edge programmers all. Right now I have the SCT with customs tunes for my specific year truck. The SCT is the most popular with people who really trick out their trucks.

I have heard that extra fuel (more power) leaves a different spray pattern on the heads, which means if the engine blows the dealer might be able to tell.

But the SCT you can upload whatever program you want and return to stock whenever you need to visit the dealer, so they won't give you much stress. If you can find a good deal on an SCT or SCT II programmer, I have a link to a website that has all the programs saved for different year trucks I could send you. Otherwise, when you buys a SCT you pay for someone to write a custom program for your truck.
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-02-2010, 11:51 PM Reply   
This is a good site for Ford truck and engine info:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
Old    Jim Zarin (jimmy_z)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-03-2010, 1:56 AM Reply   
You own a 6.0 and you want to chip it?????

I see new head gaskets in your future.

Headbolts are a known issue with 6.0's when they are stock. When you add a chip it wont be long.

If you are under warranty it will be voided. There is no way around it. Even if you remove the program the information is stored in the PCM.

Trust me. Dealers know and prove it all day long in a court of law.

When you go to court and try to fight it, there is a code generated in the PCM when your aftermarket programmer reflashed the PCM. It wont be erased. The industry is not stupid. They are miles ahead of you. There is no other reason for this code to be generated. Your toast. 100% of the time.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-03-2010, 5:49 AM Reply   
Yeah, I'd be careful with the 6.0....

I had an Edge Juice with Attitude on my LBZ Duramax.

I think only the newer trucks will show that the programmer was there, not the earlier ones like 05.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-03-2010, 7:37 AM Reply   
headstuds and egr swap or delete before chip on 6.0
Old    Roger Shea (rshea99)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-03-2010, 9:32 AM Reply   
You can run the Bio Diesel just like they said be ready to change the filter often at first tell you clean out the tank and fuel system. We manufactured bio diesel and I ran it in a 2004 f250 it ran fine for a while then I had to start changing filters I even put an inline filter in between the fuel tank and fuel pump to catch allot of the gunk before it got to the filter. The inline filter is allot cheaper. After I got the motor cleaned out it was fine ran allot better and quieter to.
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-03-2010, 10:31 AM Reply   
Yeah, the head gaskets are a problem when towing with a 6.0. I know a few guys that have blown them towing with a stock truck, no engine mods. Mine didn't give out until 99K miles, but they did go. Head studs are a smart move... Just depends on how much weight you are towing and how heavy your foot is...
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       01-03-2010, 10:33 AM Reply   
Like was already stated, if you are going to up the power on a 6.0 you should do ARP headstuds and an egr deleate first. It will save your engine.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-03-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   
is there an alternative to blocking off the egr?

I have 70,000 miles on my '06. It would be nice to do the necessary fixes before I encounter problems...
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       01-03-2010, 12:12 PM Reply   
what do yall think of this?
http://www.ntshoptools.com/Ford_Power_Stroke_EGR.html

would i still need to replace the egr valve itself? is there an upgrade egr valve?

....and still replace the head studs and gaskets?
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       01-03-2010, 2:46 PM Reply   
egr cooler is the problem.
Old    allen mabee (2literwheezer)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-03-2010, 4:35 PM Reply   
i do not suggest any chips there all junk. programmer only. of all the programmers ive run the dp tuner is by far the best on a 6.0 hands down nothing else comes even close. the edge was very nice but not half what the dp is. just my 2 cents
Old    michael morton (mortbike)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-03-2010, 6:26 PM Reply   
i have an 06 and the truck has 110,000 miles, before i do anything as far as software upgrade, im doing the headstud upgrade and egr delete, the problem with the 6.0 lies with the headstuds, the engine was designed with not enough headstuds as well as the headstuds they used were not strong enough. the egr fails and pukes coolant into the cylinders which steams and stretches the headbolts which in turn blow the head gasket...also ford recommends oil change at 3,000 miles to help prevent stictation
on the injector, which can cause a false positive for injector failure, international approves a product called "hotshot secrets". it helps prevent stictation by cleaning and preventing build up on your injectors...
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-03-2010, 6:45 PM Reply   
I've already had my EGR cooler done twice. I've had so many problems with this truck its crazy. Let me give you a little back ground on my truck. I bought it in december 2004 and not long after the problems started. The problems go like this 2 EGR coolers, 2 EGR valves, replaced turbo, tranny leak, 3 power steering hose leaks, 1 powersteering pump, 2 oil pumps, 3 alternators, 1 alternator wiring harness, and its shut off and wouldn't restart on me 3 times and they don't know why. I tried to get ford to do something to make up for this truck having so many problems like a free extended warranty or giving me a real good deal on a truck or a good trade in price but they seemed to not care. Even after talking to them for an hour and a half. And the dealer doesn't care much at all. o and my parents have bought 10 trucks in the past 4 years from ford but that didn't give me any pull either. i'm ready to get ridd of the truck but have to wait another year. So I was wanting to get a little more power out of it while i'm driving it but it sounds like i would just be asking for more problems.
Old    Ajholt7 (ajholt7)      Join Date: Apr 2009       01-03-2010, 8:22 PM Reply   
Get all your answers at powerstroke.org
Old    Andy (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-03-2010, 9:55 PM Reply   
plain and simple SCT, smarty are for dodge, edge is weak banks is trash, i have a dodge with a smart but sold my 6.0 had a bully dog, and bought an SCT, and holy Sh*t! SCT is un real
Old    Andy (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-03-2010, 9:56 PM Reply   
and allen dp tuner, thats for a 7.3 only!!!!! DP doesn't even make it for a 6.0 are a a retard?

(Message edited by michridr69 on January 03, 2010)
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-04-2010, 1:34 PM Reply   
Funny to me how these threads always start arguments.

A lot of your problems with your dealer depend on your relationship. My dealer asked if I would be running a programmer. They told me that if I did have a head problem that I should order the head studs and they'd install them for free while they were in there.

My '06 must be rare because it's been 100% trouble free. I've been running a Diablo Predator tuner on the mid-power mode for 50k miles.

I abide by the service guidelines. Oil changes at 5k. Redline cetane booster/injector cleaner a couple times a year and I don't tow super heavy. I'm also careful to warm the truck up before hammering it and I don't drive it short distances where it wont heat up. Maybe I'm overly careful, but this truck is great. I love the size and the look of the Ford and it hasn't given me anything but good luck.

As for the smogs... These guys are right on. Nothing to be scared of for now. LEAVE YOUR EGR ALONE!!, or you will be failing smog. It is a purely visual test. Look for Service Engine Soon light, inspect smog components, look for catalyst (on equipped vehicles) and do an idle smoke test. Vehicles with tuners should pass just fine.
Old    Scott (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-04-2010, 4:35 PM Reply   
Speaking of warming up your diesel....I read in my manual that it's bad to not let the motor warm up enough. I have a (unloaded flatland) 4 mile commute that's about 50mph the whole way after getting out of my neighborhood with a couple stoplights, what's a good warm up time before driving? By the time I get to work it has barely come up to 150 degrees. I usually run it for about 3 minutes before getting on the road and never goose it on the commute. Also the manual said not to let her idle too long as it won't get warm enough and will harm the motor so where's the happy medium??

I am new to the diesel game so just trying to learn. The other funny thing is on fire engines and ambulances they go from absolutely cold to a full throttle run in a matter of seconds. The only warm up is just waiting to get the garage door open and out the driveway, wondering how this doesn't cause adverse effects? Usually those motors just get standard servicing at regular intervals. I'd never do that in my own rig though because I would be paying for the fix!!
Old    Chris Halfmoon (moon)      Join Date: Oct 2008       01-04-2010, 6:05 PM Reply   
Scott, it does cause adverse effects on ambulances as well. Just go to a good diesel shop and I'm sure you'll see them there too.
Old    Jim Zarin (jimmy_z)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-04-2010, 6:15 PM Reply   
Scott

Your 3 minute ritual is just fine.

If your in a cold climate and temps are very low then you should be plugged into your block heater.

Excessive idling with newer trucks that have a DPF will cause the DPF to clog. They will usually fix it the first time under warranty, then its on your dime if it happens again.
Old    liquid ryder (pilot_ryder)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-04-2010, 6:49 PM Reply   
the best and only thing to use for the 6.0 is a sct with custom tunes. try innovative diesel performance. tunemydiesel.com
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-04-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
Jim, luckily where we are block heaters aren't necessary. It's very odd for it to be below the 40's.

Scott... Your best solution would be a supermoto for your commute. Ha, ha, ha. I felt bad firing my truck up for my 8 mile commute. I don't even get temp on the guage till I'm getting off the freeway. I'm sure you could easily get your wife on board with the program.

Otherwise, I'd say you're doing all you can for it. Just make sure to get it out and run it hard on occasion. Vehicles don't like the short distance driving. Especially turbocharged, catalyst equipped vehicles. You need to get everything up to temp regularly. Frequent oil changes would be a good idea, too.
Old    Ryan Lacefield (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-04-2010, 11:54 PM Reply   
Evan- My relationship with the dealer is great. The guy that owns the dealership is one of my dads best friends. All the guys in his service department know to just look the other way about the exhaust system and air intake on my truck. When I asked him and the service manager about chips/programmers they said they wouldn't document it on any work orders but if I came across a big warranty item and an inspecter had to come out and look at the truck, I would be on my own with that.

I guess its just if I want to chance having a major issue with my truck being its already had so many problems.

I also hear so many people who have had nothing but a good truck when owning a 6.0 but its totally oppisite for me. I hate my truck. Got so mad last time it broke down on me on my way back from Pismo that I went truck shopping. Can't wait to get into a new one.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-05-2010, 8:05 AM Reply   
Anybody have the new ford yet?I would love to hear about it before I retire my 7.3
Old    Scott (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-05-2010, 8:44 AM Reply   
Cool,

Yeah Evan I was thinking of getting a little scooter like they had on dumb and dumber to get there or maybe on of those pink spree's from the 80s, I could actually ride dirt and levees all the way there so a little Trail 70 would be fun too.....
Old    Scott (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-05-2010, 8:45 AM Reply   
Cool,

Yeah Evan I was thinking of getting a little scooter like they had on dumb and dumber to get there or maybe one of those pink spree's from the 80s, I could actually ride dirt and levees all the way there so a little Trail 70 would be fun too.....
Old    Andy (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-05-2010, 10:56 AM Reply   
well i have just been hearing really good things about the new ford 6.7, ford designed it themselfs and iv'e heard there making 400 hp stock. Also they beefed up the tranny even more than the 6.4
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-05-2010, 12:05 PM Reply   
Scott a little "Dumb and Dumber" scooter would be sweet. Ha, ha.

Andy, that's great to hear. I'm already thinking that I'd love to have one of the new trucks in a couple years. I'm hooked on diesel's.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-05-2010, 7:15 PM Reply   
Jim,

What's considered excessive ideling? How will I know if I have a problem with the DPF? I'm also fairly new to the diesel game with a 09 F 250

Thanks
Chris
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-05-2010, 8:28 PM Reply   
I thought this was interesting,sequential turbo in a single case on top of the engine with
exhaust braking.Its about time they took it to the next level.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/first-look-fords-new-6-7-liter-v-8-scorpion-power-stroke-diesel-engine.html
Old    fletch (cwfletch)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-05-2010, 8:31 PM Reply   
The 6.4 is money! I would wait for a Job 3 6.7 to many bugs in first generations. The 6.7 looks sweet but too much smog BS - Urea Injection, SCR and DPF.
Old    Jim Zarin (jimmy_z)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-06-2010, 12:27 AM Reply   
Hey Chris,

Excessive idling pertains to idle without letting your vehicle into regen mode.

A little background...when regen whas first introduced to diesel vehicles with a DPF filter(depending on brand) they were allowed to go into regen when idling. This proved a problem because temps at the tailpipe were extremely high causing fires if near dry brush..etc....etc...and also melting the paint off other cars close to the vehicle.(slightly overdramatic...but it has caused damage)

New programming does not allow for regen during idling. Therefore if the vehicle is allowed to idle for excessive amounts of time before regen then it will cause the DFF to clog.

I cannont give you a specified time because conditions vary.

I can tell you, if you subject your vehicle to long idle times, it is wise to drive an extended period as to allow your vehicle to run in "regen" mode.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-07-2010, 1:32 PM Reply   
So I assume and correct me if I'm wrong, when I drive for long distances I enter the "regen" mode when my truck states that I'm "cleaning exhaust"? I assume 5 minutes is a good warm up time? What about a cool down time for the turbo to cool? Thanks for the feedback Jim
Chris
Old    Andy (michridr69)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-07-2010, 5:40 PM Reply   
my turbo timer is set for 30 seconds, u really dont need to let cool down more than that, unless u just dragged down the tracks u might wanna let it cool for a minute
Old    Jim Zarin (jimmy_z)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-07-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
Chris,

During full boost your turbo is spinning in excess of 100,000 RPM, when you shut the motor off there is no more oil pressure and the turbo will continue to spin.

In the old days oil "coking" was an issue for turbos that did not have water-jacket bearings. And heat would also be an issue.

Example:
If you were to pull off the road at a rest stop(short distance) and shut it down quickly on a daily basis it would lead to premature turbo shaft bearing failure. In most cases you wont be at high boost before turning off your vehicle, so there isnt a need for an extended time for letdown.

In general less than a minute.

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