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Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-06-2009, 3:21 PM Reply   
I think my center ballast has a leak in it I get a bunch of water in the ski locker after filling it. Was thinking of either replacing it or getting the integrated bow sack. Which one will I get more weight in or would be better for my wake. I am already going to replace the hard tanks with V Drive sacks.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-06-2009, 3:43 PM Reply   
I would say that you should find out what is actually leaking and fix it. I would also add the integrated sack for the front. I doubt you will get much more than 250 to 300 pounds out of it though. I would just get lead to put under the bow cushions. You will need a lot of weight in the front to counteract that much weight in the back.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       10-06-2009, 4:13 PM Reply   
That hull LOVES and I repeat LOVES bow weight. We run the center full, along with the integrated bow sac full, 2-350 in lead right in the nose (depending on how many riders we have in the back) and 750's at about 60% in the rear. If we fill the rears to the top, we lay a 750 in the walkway and put a 400 across the back seat unless we're loaded with riders, then we leave the 400 out. Any way you look at it, you're gonna want as much in the nose as you can. I know Nitzel runs over 1K up front

What size of sacs are you going with in the rear?
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-06-2009, 4:50 PM Reply   
you'll also want to add supports to the plastic dividers in the lockers if you plan on adding/filling 750's. they'll bulge and press them up against the manifolds. the dividers can melt/burn and obviously not good on your manifolds. easy to remedy. 400's are nice but it's nice to have the 750s if you can get enough weight up front.
also, are you sure it's your bag leaking? I get some water in there every now and again even without filling bags...

(Message edited by brucemac on October 06, 2009)
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-06-2009, 4:54 PM Reply   
Ok was only planning on the 400s in the back does that change anyone thinking should I just fix the leak and add lead in the nose. Seems like a waste of money getting the bow sack for so little gain. Mostly intermediate and begineer riding just want to ditch the hard tanks they get in the way.

(Message edited by tampawake on October 06, 2009)
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-06-2009, 5:03 PM Reply   
Tampa I'm beginner/intermediate and with the 750s full and 300'ish in the locker (rear seat sack) and a few hundred up front the wake is pretty intimidating :-)

I've thought about led, but will probably end up piggybacking off the locker sac with the int bow sac as I don't want the extra weight up there when not in the water.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-06-2009, 5:14 PM Reply   
if you go with 750s in the back you have to put a 400 in the walkway on top of the integrated bow sac, another 400 in the across the bow wouldn't hurt either. As a rule of thumb, every pound you add to the lockers has to be added to the bow or you are being counter productive.

I've started riding with this setup, and I prefer it to my old setup:

New preffered- 250 in each v drive locker, 400 in the ski locker, 400 in the walkway, 400 on top of the ski locker next to the driver, integrated bow sac (maybe 275 in a 205V?)

Old setup- 650 in each v drive locker, 400 in the ski locker, integrated bow sac.

It's the exact same weight, but a much firmer and bigger wake. Slightly less steep.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-06-2009, 5:16 PM Reply   
Just saw your post, you're wrong about the integrated bow sac, 250 up front in this boat is worth more than 1000 by the engine, no joke.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-06-2009, 5:36 PM Reply   
joe, with that above setup how many people do you usually have in the boat, rear bench specifically?
Old    Bret Rogers (bmr82)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-06-2009, 5:53 PM Reply   
My locker sac in my 2001 did the same thing. It's easy to check for a leak in the bag. I just left a small amount of water in the bag. Pulled it out and instantly saw water leaking from the front seam. I am still waiting to get a new one. Right now I am running the stock tanks in the rear and a 750lb in the bow as full as I can get it. Wake is perfect IMO.
Old    Chasin7 T (chaser)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-06-2009, 5:54 PM Reply   
fyi, if you got water in your bilge, after trailering the boat it seems to work it's way into the ski locker so it may not be your locker sac that leaks. Pull the sac and fill it in the lawn with a garden hose.. Lay it on a sheet or something to help you see if it is leaking or you have something else going on.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-06-2009, 7:05 PM Reply   
usually a light load, probably 3 people in the boat, so only one on the rear bench. It does get crazy big when we fill the boat up with people if we've got that ballast setup
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       10-06-2009, 7:49 PM Reply   
If you're running 440's, I'd keep the locker, add a bit of lead under the seats and piggy-back an integraged bow sac to the belly, should be about perfect with nothing on the floor
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-06-2009, 8:12 PM Reply   
Bruce, sent you a pm.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-06-2009, 8:48 PM Reply   
So for my crew 400s in the back fix or replace ski locker and either get bow sack or 250 or so of lead in the nose. Small crew wife and 3 year old twins and I am 39.

(Message edited by tampawake on October 06, 2009)
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-06-2009, 9:16 PM Reply   
Here is what I run. Pretty familiar with the boat as well. I know about 10 people with the same exact boat.

For a beginner/intermediate setup the 450's are great. As others have said the boat like weight in the bow. It really really firms up the wake. I don't know how long you have had the boat,, but are you sure you have a leak in the locker sac? That ski locker/bilge area is notorious for holding water. No matter what we have tried it still gets there. The vents in the rear tend to get water in them especially when you are saced out even with an attentive driver. That locker area at the most will hold 325-350lbs. You really need to either get a custom sac made or a factory sac if your sac is indeed ruptured. If you go with anything else either it wont fill all the way because it will bulge the locker door up, or you will lose some weight. I know this from experience. My original belly burst 2 seasons ago and I tried everything under the sun, but ended up going factory replacement. Same went for 3 other guys that I know of for sure. Those 2 went custom though.

IF you decide to run the 450's and your locker sac is solid I would get an extra 350-450lb to put in the walkthru as far front as it will go in addition to the locker sac. You need weight in the locker no matter what a solo integrated sac won't do it. You are better off with a 350-450 in the walkway. More weight than the integrated bow sac, takes up less storage space, and way easier to fill and empty. Also acts like a playpen ;)

I run the 750's in the rear, the factory locker sac, and a 600lb'r in the walkway and about 200lbs of lead under the seats. Really really nice. I did add extra support to my original dividers. I am in the same boat all around. I ride with the wife and my 2 little ones as well. Skeleton crew. You will also find that even when you are not riding having that 350-450 in the nose helps the boat ride waaaaaay smoother in my opinion.


JOE,

You should try the 650's, the locker, and 600-700 in the nose. IT's NIIIIIIICE!





(Message edited by xstarrider on October 06, 2009)
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-06-2009, 9:47 PM Reply   
anybody have light wash on the lip opposite the rider?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-06-2009, 10:51 PM Reply   
Do you mean when jumping and landing? Of do you mean all the time?

I am clear all the way back to 80ft with my setup at 24.5mph.

I did however have to add roughly 150lbs to my passenger side when I went with the new more aggressive ACME 1235. Seems the torque kind of made the boat lean a little more towards the driver's side when running at wake speed. SO with me riding with usually a driver and 2 little ones as the spotter I needed to offset the torque with a little weight.
Old    LM (zorro)      Join Date: Jan 2005       10-06-2009, 11:12 PM Reply   
Any suggestions for ballast for a wakesurf wake?
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2009, 7:46 AM Reply   
I really dont want stuff in the aisle the boat is small enough that would just take up too much space with the kids. Thanks swat it seems like the bilge and locker fill with water. My bag gets real tight with air once its almost full I usually just eye it and dont wait on the water to come out the over flow.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-07-2009, 9:50 AM Reply   
Luca,

I have tried this and seems ok,

Port side:
750 rear locker
400 side seat
Factory Center Full
200lbs lead up front
spread people around boat (Not to much on Port side get's me a bit scared)
Oh...Be Safe!
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-07-2009, 10:02 AM Reply   
We are able to surf our boat on the driver's side no problem with just a driver, the 750 in the rear full and 600lbs in the nose, I usually empty the center/locker bag halfway or so. It's not the biggest out there, but its a fun ride with 180 and slasing capabilities. However load 4 people bac there and t gets really nice quick.

This boat surfs very well for a 20ft'r.
I came from 5 Centurions before owning my X-Star. Was a rep. Nothing compares, however the 205v hull does it nicely. You can surf both port and starboard sides with zero issues. THe biggest negative on the 205v hull is the rub rail in the rear is so close to the water its easy for those who are not familiar with how to "surf drive" to possibly dunk the back end...especially on a rough day

Tamp,

I would let the bag burp itself to get the air out. That is the way the system was designed. Allows less sloshing around in there and more weight ;)

(Message edited by xstarrider on October 07, 2009)
Old    LM (zorro)      Join Date: Jan 2005       10-07-2009, 10:03 AM Reply   
Thanks Jeff,
I will try.
Old    LM (zorro)      Join Date: Jan 2005       10-07-2009, 10:07 AM Reply   
Hello Swatguy, Hello Jeff,
Where do you locate the weight in the bow? Below the side cushions or below the front one or both?
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-07-2009, 10:20 AM Reply   
Luca,

My lead is all the way up in the nose under the front seat, the 400lb bag is under the port side seat, and the 750lb bag is in the port side rear locker. That way there is nothing on the floor or seats and people can move around on the seats to adjust as needed. I do have an integrated bow sac also so if I do need more up front while surfing I would add to it.
Hope that helps for the surf wake. As for the wakeboard wake...I am still not satisfied and still dialing that in.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2009, 11:30 AM Reply   
may be a dumb question where do you get lead from? Am thinking of just getting the integrated sack fill it up and leave it full. Would that cause me any issues. I trailer my boat.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-07-2009, 1:40 PM Reply   
Tamp,
You can get it delivered in nice easy to use customizable bags like this that take up almost next to no space. Though it is a nice penny.
http://www.pop-products.com/
I use old elevator weights that I painted with a rubber coating. Also heard of guys going to tire shops and collecting their left overs for lunch money and putting them in rubbermaid bins.
I have towed with the side sacs filled under my cushions. 25mi one way. IT's noticeable, I now only keep 200lbs up there though instead of around 550 like I had with the side sacs and lead. Again some people will say they do it all the time others will say nooooo waaaaay. Kind of up to you. If it were over say 50mi one way I would say empty the bag. Just me though. I am not an expert.


Luca,

I have about 200lbs of lead all the way under
the center bow cushion and just run my 600lb sac in the bow walkway as far forward on the floor as I can. I ends up stopping right at the cutout for the driver's panel. I would see where this would be in the way for some who ride with bigger crews, but for me it works perfect. Before I upgraded to the 750's I was running the 450's in the rear. When I was running that all I did was leave 2 side sacs filled under the side bow cushions and the lead up there as well.
Old    Eagle Jackson (eaglejackson)      Join Date: Oct 2004       10-07-2009, 1:49 PM Reply   
+1 for Pop Products
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-07-2009, 3:28 PM Reply   
I either must not have enough weight up front or i need to learn to ride faster because I have a very slight wash at the lip on the opposite side of the rider. the wake always looks/feels good on the side the rider is hitting, but as soon as he jumps the other side has the wash. not all that big of a deal i guess since it's on the opposite side of the rider, but sure would like to figure it out.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-07-2009, 5:26 PM Reply   
We ride between 18 and 22mph depending on rider and new tricks. I only tow 1/2 a mile to the lake. So 250 to 300 in the integrated bow sack would not be a big deal and I would just keep it full. Or is lead a better idea.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-07-2009, 5:57 PM Reply   
I wouldn't want to keep the bag full because it will trap moisture under the cushions and you will get mildew in there. The other nice thing is if you do pop products it will be easy to move around for quick adjustments and for surfing.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-07-2009, 7:28 PM Reply   
Tamp,

At those speeds you wouldn't be able to fill up the 750's all the way anyways so the 450's are perfect. IF you are around 18-20mph it actually a great wake if yo leave the rear bags empty and just fill the bow and locker.

As Brett stated you do get moisture under the bow bags especially in the beginning and the end of the seasons.....well here in Chicago anyways due to the temp changes from day to night and the humidity. I personally like the lead idea being you're so close. It won't restrict your storage up there as much and you can get 2 times as much weight in lead as opposed to the sac. Just my personal opinion. I am actually going to be moving to a private lake. I use my 600 because I tow quite frequently so always empty and fill it, but leave the 200lbs of led up there. Was way easier to just fill an empty it in the walkway. Now that I will be on the water I will be replacing the sac with lead to free up the space on the floor.


Bruce,

there will always be a little curl on the side away from the rider when they are edging hard into the wake. Its because the hull is so narrow. There should just be no curl when the boat is tracking straight w/o rider cutting, and when the rider is cutting in the rider's side wake. If you think it is always there when the rider is not edging the rule of thumb is always add more weight to the side with the curl.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-07-2009, 8:48 PM Reply   
Tampawake,

I use shotgun #4 lead shot in there 25lb bags, very easy to move around and fit in the smallest places.

Swatguy,

I have the same thing as Bruce on the slight wash, not there on rider side but opposite side it's there. Gonna have to try moving some weight around next spring.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       10-08-2009, 12:53 AM Reply   
jeff like sg is sayin, i don't think you can avoid the wash opposite side of rider when he's cutting out and pivoting the hull no matter what weight. looking for correction, but not seen it. could be a 01-04 thing. doesn't matter unless you're snapping pics of both sides at speed. it's always good for rider.
Old    Jason E (cfps)      Join Date: Sep 2009       10-08-2009, 5:35 AM Reply   
I tried my new 750's last time out plus ski locker, plus intergrated bow sac and you have to be at 22 or faster to get a clean wake. It looked about waist high!

For surfing we drained starboard 750 and added one side sac under port side rear bench seat. The pocket was very short and a lot of white water. We then drained the IBS and the wake cleaned up a little. The pocket was still too small. Any more thoughts on best surfing setup for this boat?
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-08-2009, 7:03 AM Reply   
Jason,

Do you have weight up front? I know on our boat you need weight up front for surfing also.

Bruce,

Yup, I agree. Don't take pic's of wake so as long as rider happy,crew happy,and Wife/Kids happy, well then I'm happy.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-08-2009, 9:41 AM Reply   
Jason what speed are you at? The pocket is a little short compared to most boats, but most boats are a larger in beam and length. You also surf a little closer to the stern than other boats as well.

Def leave that IBS filled. At about 9.8mph for us it's money. We have found that the key to get this wake dialed is to actually go past the surf speed just a little on the start up and let it drift back down. We found if we went straight to the surf speed it took a little longer for the wake to clean up. I am sure it has to do with our pp settings but we have it dialed now for wakeboarding so we can live with the way we need to start to surf .
Old    Jason E (cfps)      Join Date: Sep 2009       10-08-2009, 8:52 PM Reply   
9.8 does seem to be the right speed for my boat too. i agree with the slow to form wake. I will try overshooting the speed and then bringing it back down to 9.8. perfect pass is great!

thanks for the feedback.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       10-08-2009, 11:40 PM Reply   
Jeff- You're never satisfied with the wakeboard wake...that is..until we make it taller than you!
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-09-2009, 7:39 AM Reply   
Ha ha ha..I can't even ride what I have now.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       10-09-2009, 10:47 AM Reply   
Remember the rule....you slam it....you hit it!
Old    LM (zorro)      Join Date: Jan 2005       10-13-2009, 11:33 PM Reply   
Hello,
When all of you talk about weight in the back do you remove the factory ballst tanks to replace them with larger bags or do you simply add a bag to the existing tank at each side of the motor?
In case you do not remove the tanks, how do you fill and empty the additional bags? Do you use a new pump or do you use the factory installed pumps?
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-14-2009, 12:32 AM Reply   
Tanks come out and it it is a simple plug and play for the newer style Fly High bags. You van=ve to buy at most a couple quick connect fittings and a little hose extension depending on the year of the boat.

If you have an early model boat with an aerator ballast system you will also need to add a check valve to the fill lines so the water from the bags doesn't syphon back out. It's simple
Old    Jason Reidenbach (nmcjr)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-03-2009, 1:00 PM Reply   
What is the symptom of not enough weight in the bow? In other words, how does the wake change as more weight is added to the bow?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-03-2009, 1:16 PM Reply   
In general weight in the front makes the wake a little more rampy, cleans the lip up and also hardens it in a lot of cases. If you put too much in the rear the wake will curl over, be less solid and you will probably have a hard time planing as well as the boat will porpoise.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-03-2009, 3:10 PM Reply   
I just ordered 4k in lead going to put it all in the bow. probably just ride that and the kgb tank.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-13-2009, 12:23 PM Reply   
You guys with this boat. My dealer told me that I cannot fill all three tanks at the same time which I believe him I have not been able to do it succefully I would like to be able to fill all three at the same time. Have any of you added a new through hull or how have you fixed this issue. Its 5 mins or so to fill KGB and the same each tank in the back.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-13-2009, 12:31 PM Reply   
The 2002 should of been the first year they went to the jabsco reversible style pumps if I remember correctly. I have to imagine they used at least one dedicated through hull if not 2. If you want to get custom you could probably splice the front pump off the water intake for the motor and then use a separate through hull for the 2 rear pumps. If you really want to have it done right though you probably should have one larger thru hull for the 2 rear pumps and one thru hull for the front pump.
Old    Jason Reidenbach (nmcjr)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-13-2009, 12:37 PM Reply   
I was under this impression too, and had never tried. Last weekend I tried it and it seemed fine. I think it was the same 5 minutes, but all 3 were full. One thing that may have changed that is that I went to the new green impellers this year, no idea if that makes a difference though.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-13-2009, 12:41 PM Reply   
I checked and just have two through hulls one for raw water and one for ballast. It is a 2002 with the Jabsco KGB brand new pump. What speed do you guys suggest running at when filling I start filling sitting at the ramp then make a slow 5mph run for a while. Think all my impellers are green.
Old    Chaun Keating (big_poppa_pump)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-13-2009, 12:47 PM Reply   
I start filling waiting for the trailer to get parked, but it fills faster around 20 mph or more.

I suggest one of these for separate control:

ballast

(Message edited by big_poppa_pump on November 13, 2009)
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-13-2009, 12:53 PM Reply   
Great control unit but the issue I have is getting the water into the boat expeditiously. Not to mention I am not that hardcore and need that much weight
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-13-2009, 1:55 PM Reply   
Tampa,

I have went with four Rule 1100's (2 empty & 2 fill) for rear 750's, Piranha pumps (Factory Malibu) for front Integrated (1 fill & 1 empty), and Jabsco factory for KGB only. Now I do run two separate through hulls for ballast which for the volume I try to run helps out a ton. Oh and I also changed all my fill and empty lines from 3/4 to 1" also.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-17-2009, 1:36 PM Reply   
Well it was going to be about $500 to have a new through hull and everything routed so just staying with the one intake and going to have to be patient while filling. So I will have 400's on each side of the engine and just received 400lbs in lead to put in the nose. If I am riding these with the 310 rtp do I NEED to reprop? If any of you have which prop did you go with.
Old    Jeff Polivka (wakesurfer08)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-17-2009, 1:39 PM Reply   
I went with the Acme 1235
Old    Jason Reidenbach (nmcjr)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-17-2009, 1:43 PM Reply   
I think you will need/want to. I did on mine and I have the 330HP. Both Acme and OJ are good. I went with the following based up OJ's recommendation, which is also what they now put in the X1 stock:
14.25 X 14.5 LC 1 1/8" XMP 4-blade part #475
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       11-17-2009, 2:52 PM Reply   
Jason obviously the hole shot is good but how is for cruising and pulling tubes I have 3 year olds and we do alot of 30mph cruising and pulling tubes I the c word of wakeboarding but I am a family guy.
Old    Jason Reidenbach (nmcjr)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-17-2009, 3:10 PM Reply   
30MPH cruising is fine, I can't remember exactly what the RPM will be (maybe 4000?), but it is fine. At higher speeds, fuel consumption will incease. As I recall, fully loaded I run around 3300RPM at 23 MPH or so. I try to cruise at around 25MPH for fuel consumption reasons, and empty I think this puts me around 3500 RPMs, again, just going from memory. I pulled a skier at 37 this year and the engine is really humming at that speed, but it worked.

That said, I think you will struggle to get on plane with the stock prop, assuming it is the 13x18 that I had. And, I think you end up using more fuel while fully loaded and it won't hold speed as well. But, you can always give it a shot with the stock prop and see for yourself before ordering. Also, there are props in between and OJ is really good about letting you try different ones.

As I said, the one I listed is what MC is putting stock on the X1's so I figured that meant MC figures it a good all around prop too.

I don't pull tubes very often, but when I do I always empty the ballast first, otherwise you will really suck up the fuel, kind of a pain, but worth doing.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-18-2009, 6:41 AM Reply   
When deciding on sacs, it is best to go with the biggest sacs that will fit within the dimensions of your storage space. You can always fill a 750lb sac with 400lbs but not vice versa and the cost difference between a large and medium sac is negligible.

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