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Old    Andrew Brinks (rs1071)      Join Date: Feb 2007       11-02-2009, 7:22 PM Reply   
Well, this isn't exactly anything new under the sun, but I was thinking about this during my drive last weekend. Boat manufacturers, please take note.

I hate trying to calculate what each person should contribute for a set, especially given the differences in time that people ride. So... the first manufacturer to include a fuel usage meter in their newfangled dash displays will get a strong kudos from me. It would be fairly straightforward to put a fuel meter in the fuel line (or take injector duration x flow rate) and then display the cumulative fuel use for each rider on the dash display. The manufacturer could even have inputs of cost per gallon and % overhead to present a cost per set that is customized for each rider. Then I would know how much to charge each person, without having to subjectively guesstimate.

Just an idea...
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-02-2009, 9:05 PM Reply   
They've got the technology to do that right now, but nobody is doing it. Even a fuel use meter would be nice with instant and fuel used since reset.
...and that's a great profile shot Andrew.
Old    Danny Smylie (smylie)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-02-2009, 9:54 PM Reply   
or just not charge and if someone gives you a couple bucks be happy. if you cant afford the gas, you shouldn't have a boat. Part of owning a boat is putting gas in it.
Old    Steven Breazeale (breazy)      Join Date: Jun 2009       11-02-2009, 11:44 PM Reply   
You could always put a flowmeter on the supply line, but thats going to be off because most fuel injected engines recirculate the fuel and pump way more than the injectors actually use.
Old    Troy (liveoz)      Join Date: May 2002       11-03-2009, 8:06 AM Reply   
Wow, I think that is getting way to complicated and unnecesary. If you want people to pay their fair share of gas, just use the following formula:
Amount of gas used divided by number of riders. If you have 4 riders and they use a half tank of gas (say 20 gallons)they pay for 5 gallons each. Yeah I know not every set is the same length but who cares.

To be honest, you should not have to ask at all, if you do, you should look into a changing up your crew.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-03-2009, 8:47 AM Reply   
The last thing I want to see is how fast I am burning fuel. It might make me cry.
Old    Dave (davomaddo)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-03-2009, 8:55 AM Reply   
This is a demographic issue.

Young riders come up against this issue a lot.
Many young riders don't own their boat - it is their parent's boat. They and all their friends are broke, but everyone wants to ride all the time.

I faced this issue growing up. A fuel meter would have been handy.

Now, I don't see as much. I have family. When I ride with other guys, they have boats or they know to pitch in. Things balance out more often.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-03-2009, 9:04 AM Reply   
I follow the 5 gallons per "average set" rule. If they take a longer set I round up, if they take a shorter set I round down. Lately since gas is hovering right around $3 a gallon I have been kicking down $15 a set. If I fall more often, $20, if its short $10. If we are hitting dubs then $20 to help with wear and tear on the boat.
Old    Aaron (alindquist)      Join Date: Mar 2004       11-03-2009, 10:04 AM Reply   
My buddy's fishing boat has GPH meter but can also reset it for trip duration, basically it tells him how many gallons we burn on a fishing trip. End of the day we figure how much gas we burned, how much bait we bought and divide by whoever is in the boat. Most people put down a little more since we are using his gear and boat. Works out pretty good... When you just want to be fair it's a good way to do things. I always have the rule on my boat that "gas money is always appreciated but never expected" I'm going out anyways and it's tough to get a pull if your in the boat by yourself.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       11-03-2009, 2:03 PM Reply   
The last thing manufactures want to do is display how terrible there boat is on gas right in plain english on the dashboard.The way we do it is the person who owns the boat puts gas in it.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-03-2009, 2:13 PM Reply   
My Epic has it built in. It tells you gallons per hour actual, and gallons per hour average. I'm sure you could figure it out from there.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       11-03-2009, 2:15 PM Reply   
New Sangers with the DTS Mercruiser motor have it built in. Same as the Epic.
Old    Arek (splashbenidorm)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-03-2009, 2:25 PM Reply   
The person who owns the boat pays all the gas That's a real good friend, haha. He buys the boat, puts the oil, filters, impellers, reparations, insurance, etc, and also pays all the sets!

Gas is quite expensive over here in Europe. We normally have similar sets and pay per set. The owner either rides free, longer set or charges a couple of bucks to round the price up and cover his expenses. Everybody is ok with it.
Old    Ozark King (onthewatermo)      Join Date: Jan 2008       11-03-2009, 2:30 PM Reply   
Sounds like I need to start charging people who come over to watch my 100" HDTV. The bulb in my projector should last 2000 hours but then I need a new one. Electricity costs money. Plus, much like wakeboarding, when someone else is playing my PS3 (another cost) I just watch.
That said, I usually sneak a $20 into the glove box when someone else pulls me (that sounds dirty).
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-03-2009, 2:45 PM Reply   
Sorry Andy, some of use actully work for a living. You know, we do the jobs that you probably pay for. It's ok though, laugh at us, we laugh at you all the time.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       11-03-2009, 6:54 PM Reply   
Everybody I ride with has there own boat so its not that big a deal.Im just happy to have a few good drivers around.
Old    Andrew Brinks (rs1071)      Join Date: Feb 2007       11-03-2009, 7:13 PM Reply   
I did not know about the Epics and Sangers... good to know.
Old    Arek (splashbenidorm)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-04-2009, 12:22 AM Reply   
I did't mean that we are so strict, Andy, but we try to be fair with eachother and not abuse.
I hope you TV doesn't spend 240$ in a morning like my boat.
Maybe I can afford once or twice, but fortunately I don't need to.




A fuel manager is not an expensive accessory, and it can be useful.
Old    Chris (ccripps)      Join Date: Oct 2003       11-04-2009, 12:19 PM Reply   
We all kick in $20 as well but sometime I think the owners is getting Screwed Cause knowone every really knows how much gas they used.

Lowrance LMF-400 with EP-60R Fuel Flow Sensor

This device Measure how much gas you use during a session.

So set it to Zero before you start the engine and when you come back in you know exactly how much gas you have during the Session. This would make if fair so the no one is paying too much or too little.

It also has other attachments that might be useful like Rudder angle. •Capable of displaying the following NMEA 2000 data: paddlewheel speed, GPS speed, tachometer, battery voltage, alternator voltage, engine temperature, water pressure, engine oil pressure, fuel pressure, boost pressure, transmission oil pressure, atmospheric pressure, temperature, depth, engine loads, engine hours, fuel flow, fuel economy, fuel remaining, fuel used, fuel range, trip fuel used, seasonal fuel used, engine synchronizer, fluid level, GPS position, trim tab position, engine trim position, and engine alarms and warnings


http://www.lowrance.com/en/Products/Marine/Digital-Gauges/LMF-400/
Old    Mellow Man (mellowman)      Join Date: Jul 2007       11-04-2009, 12:35 PM Reply   
"or just not charge and if someone gives you a couple bucks be happy. if you cant afford the gas, you shouldn't have a boat."

Wow! This is an awful attitude. It must be nice to be independently wealthy where you don't have to worry about the cost of gas
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       11-04-2009, 1:16 PM Reply   
If you are charging for a set, you may be required to comply with USCG commercial vessel requirements. Captain's license, deck hand, inspections, no more than 6-passengers, etc. This is for federal waters (delta), Great Lakes and connectors, etc. Some states have particular licenses that typically apply to fishing guides, but can hit a wakeboarder as well. Your insurance may also have a commercial exclusion. Paying for a set can be considered a commercial enterprise.

Be careful.....
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2009, 6:41 AM Reply   
Love the feature on my Epic. 6.3 GPH average for the year. Pretty darn good for an 8.1 liter big block.
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-05-2009, 7:07 AM Reply   
We stop at the gas station and fill the boat up after we're done. Anyone who rode for a decent amount of time splits the gas bill. (We don't charge people who are learning and ride for three minutes).

It's simple and avoids gas confrontations. (Plus ths boat is ready to go next time.)
Old    Ted Dreaver (dreevs)      Join Date: Jul 2002       11-05-2009, 1:37 PM Reply   
Karl - you are right, but I think thats more commercial / business related. If you use the meter just to give your crew an idea of what the gas usage is, you should be ok. I agree - be careful.
And wow. Never thought of adding one of those to a wake boat. I thought it was petty at first, but now it seems like a pretty good idea.
Old    Harry Balnsac (mstoked2)      Join Date: Dec 2008       11-05-2009, 2:57 PM Reply   
I'm getting one for next season!!http://www.zazzle.com/my_boat_doesnt_run_on_thanks_tshirt-235908720485023167
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-06-2009, 7:38 PM Reply   
It doesn't really matter who use's exactly how much gas. After 10+ years of boating, it comes down to this.

Who shows up on time?
Who brings beverages to share?
Who helps clean up when it's done?
Who help's out when somethings broke?
Who bring's the best ladies, with the least swim suits?

It's not just gas usage. It's all about the good time.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       11-07-2009, 12:18 PM Reply   
Even boat owners have it ruff right now with money. We have resorted to riding the cable on happy hour Weds @ OWC $11 a hour after 4pm. It's alot cheaper to work on fundamental skills there than behind the boat
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-09-2009, 12:55 PM Reply   
I think that's getting too anay, and would take some of the fun out of being out on the water. Usually when I fill up whoever is going out on the water is with me. They see me put 40 gals in the boat and 40 gals in the truck. Unfortunately most of my friends who come out with me don't have much money to throw around I'm happy with whatever I get. I don't have any room to complain though, since I only know a handful of people who will come out and ride/drive. So if I gotta pay for someone else to ride that's just the cost of getting a driver.

It sucks but if I didn't pay for gas every time I wouldn't be getting out. Sad thing is I'm younger than half the folks that ride behind my boat, and do college and work both full time... Oh well, you only live once.
Old    Craig Cox (wakedoctor)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-09-2009, 3:43 PM Reply   
Josh B that is what we do. I fill ups at the first of the season and the rest of the fill up happen when we leave the lake/river. That way we get there in half the time and we try to do equal rides (most of use are good for about 4 falls) so we split up the price at the end of the day. I personally think that the fuel use meter would never get used by my crew. If someone is riding good and wants one more pull I am not going to tell them no. However, I only ride with 4 or 5 people max. I guess it could be different for some of you.

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