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Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2009, 4:25 PM Reply   
Seriously? A Liquid Force Custom followed by a Broadcast and the Ronix Koal were the top 3 wakesurfboards for 2009? They might be good for absolute beginners but not one of these boards possess qualities that define a quality board much less make them the cream of the crop.

IMO the voting is seriously flawed and should be changed so voting for every category isn't mandatory.
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-22-2009, 5:32 PM Reply   
Where do you find these results?
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       09-22-2009, 5:41 PM Reply   
Voting is not mandatory for every category.
Old    Rob (wakesurf_ohio)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-22-2009, 5:51 PM Reply   
They are posted up here.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2009, 5:55 PM Reply   
When I tried to vote I only wanted to vote for the wakesurfboard of the year and it told me I had to pick a choice from each category
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2009, 5:57 PM Reply   
I just find it unfortunate that the results will likely influence bad buying decisions
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-22-2009, 5:58 PM Reply   
What exactly are the categories?
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-22-2009, 6:29 PM Reply   
obviously "worst performing wakesurfboard" was one them.

IMO not one of those boards is worth more than the 1 day of renting it would take to outgrow it
Old    Blair J (rhawn)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-23-2009, 8:43 AM Reply   
Wow.
Old    Brian (TXSurf) (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       09-23-2009, 9:52 AM Reply   
I'm not even sure what to say.

Looking at past years, Liquid Force and Hyperlite have won every year! Ha
Old    JF (inland_surfer)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-23-2009, 10:51 AM Reply   
OUCH!
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-23-2009, 11:37 AM Reply   
Just goes to show we need more from the guys that are shaping here. I think that will change this next year. I know you will be seeing a big push from at least one US based shaper/manufacturer.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       09-23-2009, 12:55 PM Reply   
Wardovision, no, it did not tell you that.

The main Riders Choice page said in bold, "Keep in mind that you do not have to vote in every category to get entered to win. All we require is that you vote for at least one rider in at least one of the rider categories. The rest of the voting is optional."

When you chose to go to the voting page, it said at the top in red and bold, "You DO NOT have to fill out the entire form to submit your entry. All we require is that you vote for at least one rider in at least one of the rider categories. The rest of the voting is optional."

Finally, after somehow missing those first two messages, the message you received after attempting to submit a ballot with only a wakesurf board selection on it said, "Please make a choice in at least one of the following categories: Top Male Riders, Top Female Riders, Top Wakeskaters, Rookie of the Year or Most Improved."
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-23-2009, 2:13 PM Reply   
Ok that sounds right but all of those were still categories I didn't feel like I could make an informative decision on so I didn't complete the process. I don't follow pros in any sport (outside the ocean) anymore so my vote would have been as insightful as someone voting for the Custom.

I've rode that board and it's lacking in both edge to edge response and down the line speed both of which are critical to a good wakesurfboard. There is no way it should have been in the top 3 much less the best board 2 years in a row. It's not a horrible board but there are at least a half dozen manufacturers that simply blow it out of the water.

I could (and have) make a better board in my garage

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 23, 2009)

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 23, 2009)
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-24-2009, 9:28 AM Reply   
hahaha looks like it all depends on who is spending the advertising dollar and where your spending it?????
JF Inland Surfer - Dont be hurt we both know what companies make legit boards.

(Message edited by ollies_drew on September 24, 2009)
Old    Blair J (rhawn)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-24-2009, 10:46 AM Reply   
Its just a shame even more will be mislead into buying into Wakeboard manufacturers instead of legit Wakesurf board companies.
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-24-2009, 11:33 AM Reply   
I ask this question all the time..."If you were an ocean surfer, would you buy your board from a wakeboard or waterski company? NO! Then why, if you wakesurf, would you buy your board from one of those companies?"

For many years now ocean surfers have had the opportunity to buy cheap china made boards. Why haven't they all flocked to the lower prices? Why don't surf shops carry them? They know the quality and craftsmanship is not available in those types of boards.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-24-2009, 11:59 AM Reply   
I always get confused with these arguments, it seems to combine two different issues. I think the vast majority of wakeboards are made at the Cobra Factory in Thailand. Isn't that true of the LF and HL wakesurfers above? Cobra also manufactures Inland Surfer and Surftech. Arguably decent boards. Cobra is the largest surfboard manufacturer in the world. So one argument is wakeboard companies don't know how to design wakesurfboards - it would be hard to argue that Cobra doesn't know how to make them. I'm sure that a large portion of the folks that participate in the wakesurf forum here would agree that wakeboard companies don't design the best wakesurfers.

In the "cheap china made boards", aren't only some of the Triple X and Shred Stixx manufactured in China? Are there any other, readily available, wakesurfboards manufactured in China?

How do the Triple X and Shred Stixx owners/riders feel about the quality of their boards?
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-24-2009, 1:11 PM Reply   
I think there is likely a disconnect between the best board and the most accessible board that people perceive as the best since it was the best they have ridden. For the average wakeboarder who surfs from time to time, they likely are riding wakesurfers that they can pick up from their local board shop. Common things being common, these board shops are selling wakesurfers from mainstream board companies that they deal with. So, voters have a limited perspective and limited exposure to the high end boards that the diehards ride.
Old    Petr (hawaj)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-24-2009, 2:50 PM Reply   
He he I don't think that "Riders Choice" is same thing as "Wakesurfboard of the year" or even "Best wakesurfboard".
If riders dont know other boards how they can vote for them?
Yea we need more media coverage, more great pictures and videos so people can find out what best riders are using and what you can do on it.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-25-2009, 4:35 PM Reply   
Wow, that's a surprising result. I do recommend the Broadcast as a trainer but it's something that should be quickly outgrown. We started “Blind Pete” on my Broadcast. We put a line of gator grip down the center so he could feel where to put his feet. Then he went out and bought one and rode it as much as he could this summer. After the summer was over Pete came to ride with us again. He started on the Broadcast. Then he tried one of my homemade boards (kind of like a WP Bullet), a Walzer, and an old modle IS Yellow. He seemed to do really well on my homemade board and on the IS Yellow. The Walzer was too loose. I didn’t think that he would do that well on the Yellow since there isn’t much feedback for foot placement, but he really liked the feel of the board. So now he wants to ride more boards and look at buying a new board or two for next season. Even a blind guy can tell that there are higher performing boards than a Broadcast.

I suspect there’s some brand loyalty. I bought two LF wakeboards. I liked the first but it was stolen so I bought a different model in the same line up. I doubt that most riders have access to a quality board or rather a high performance board.
Old    Sixx (sixx352)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-26-2009, 11:55 AM Reply   
Hey Jeff just responding to your post. You as well as others know this is my first year competing and riding for a wakesurf team Triple X Surf. And I will be the first to say I'm not a fan of MADE IN CHINA boards but they gave me a chance to get exposure so I'm thankful for that since living in Idaho is a hard place to get your name out there from. Tim is a awesome guy to ride for always listening to what I say and following through with stuff. He is a business guy and its cheaper to get boards made there than here so I see that side of it. Most people who are getting into wakesurfing are looking for a cheaper board anyways and don't want to buy $400-500+ board. Next season I will be riding on my own board I designed and it will be Made in the USA shaped by a Florida shaper. So I know the change is small but it is a baby step in the home grown direction and I'm glad to say I ride on a USA wake surf board now. At least Triple X will be half and half better than full china made. Like I said baby steps. It will be up to a lot of us to inform people coming into this sport on how we feel toward USA made and OVERSEAS MADE boards. USA boards might run higher priced but at least that money stays in the states and I tell people that when they are looking at my boards I'm selling and a lot of people like to hear that and that little bit of info plays an important roll when it comes time to purchase a board. I already have 3 of my signature boards on order for next season because it is USA made and how well it performs.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-26-2009, 12:22 PM Reply   
i should stay out of this but here goes .... we all have opinions and thats great .... but we need to do a better job of tempering or opinions when they arent the same as someone elses .... i believe we should try to do what we all can do and if we are at the least conscious of trying thats a great start .... i think nikki stated it beautifully .... WE all have bought things made overseas and continue to do so .... and everything we buy overseas i am sure is made somewhere here in the US .... so WE have all stepped on someones toes at some time ( mostly to our own advantage it seems ) .... so we all need to have a better perspective on things and be a little more sensitive towards each other and believe that WE are all trying to do the right thing .... i really wonder if wakesurfers can ever acheive the true passion of a surfer, nature vs a boat wake?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-26-2009, 6:41 PM Reply   
Hey Nikki congrats on your signature model - is this prototype going to be your signature board? Love the probox!

Back to the Triple X from China...I saw some imperfections along the rails, but certainly nothing worse than minor and I've made AND seen some boards with MAJOR imprefections :-) Anybody from the Shred Stixx camp?

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Old    Sixx (sixx352)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-26-2009, 9:01 PM Reply   
Yea thats pretty much it. I like it with the quad fin with the smaller fins but I have been riding it more with the 2 fins and I love it a lot more it has the traction for airs and the slipper feel for spins. I'm happy with it and being my first board I think we designed it pretty good. So far a 230lbs guy can ride it with ease. I like the epoxy board a lot more also. This series of boards will be called the Slayer signature series and an option to get my custom design will also be available for the memory of my friend Colton Dixon who was a power pole Lineman that died while we were at Lake Powell wakeboarding in 2007. The graphics look pretty sick for that series of boards CD Sixx Signature. And next years Triple X boards are going to have a lot of changes that me and Tim have decided to change on them keep a look out for those as well.
Old    Rusty (rustyshredstixx)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-28-2009, 9:15 AM Reply   
http://slayshblog.com/?p=2591
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-30-2009, 11:29 AM Reply   
Woah that TripleX looks like a good board which model is that and how much?

Obviously the boards that 'won' the choice are just the most popular and best selling.

I'm happy having a board that is more unique as well as a very diverse market of manufacturers. That is a good thing for wakesurfing!
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-30-2009, 4:38 PM Reply   
I too was shocked from the results. I ride the XXX, IS, and P5. I would only consider LF and HL as a beginner board also. But your better boards are going to be custom, and from someone that only does surf boards. Next year I will be in a position to purchase a custom board that fits my style and weight. But I agree that there are way better boards out there than the ones that won.

Drew, you hit the nail on the head!
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-01-2009, 8:08 AM Reply   
yeah, I know it's what sells the most but it's a giant cycle of BS that's hurting the industry. All the wakesurfing part of that poll does is give people the false impression that the LF is a good board influencing their decision to buy a substandard board. No wonder people think wakesurfing is something that should be reserved to rough water when these are the boards they are riding. In that case I agree with them, "You're right, there is no difference when riding butter or rough water on a Liquid Force or Hyperlite board because that's all those boards are capable of.

edit: Secondly these companies have absolutely no interest in supporting wakesurfing and helping it grow like with their other board lines. All they want is our money}

(Message edited by CAskimmer on October 01, 2009)
Old    waterdog (h20k9)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-01-2009, 10:53 AM Reply   
i think out of all the masss produced boards,the LF custom is the way to go..it was the first worthy foam core wood stringer attempt from a big company.
couple weeks ago jimmy redmond owner of LF and i caught a malford milligan show at antones then went back to my shop and shaped foam till the next day.
jimmy then let me know about his plans for his new high end,made in the usa,designed by rawson wakesurf line.
huge!
what this tells me is LF is now completely concious about keeping the core in wakesurfboard manufacturing.
with companies like LF doing the right thing over money,its only a matter of time before the outsourced china stixx crap companies have to price their plastic pop out stixx for what they are truley worth.
$99.99 free shipping hahaha
wardo,i usually completely agree with you but in LF defense they have put up money for brostock,waketoberfest and the texas state wakesurfing championship on lake austin for 2009&2010&2011.
time are changing,its only gettn bettr.
surfs up,peace!
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-01-2009, 11:43 AM Reply   
I will gladly eat my words when proven wrong but at this time I'm still disappointed by LF's efforts into wakesurfing especially with Jimmy's background of surfboard shaping and the resources available to LF. Yeah the custom is better than the boards from the other wakeboard manufacturers but it's still a feeble attempt from someone with the ability to do amazing things. Something's wrong when I can make a better board in my garage with very little prior experience than a corporation that's been doing this for decades. I can't see how they used any type of knowledgeable feedback when designing it. (and then to sit on the same unimproved design for 2 more seasons because it sells is weak and not doing us any favors)

It's no secret that I'm all about American made products but I'd much rather see the market dominated by foreign made boards if they work like the Inland Surfer and Shredd Stixx boards do than by American products that perform like the Custom.

Again, I hope I'm proven wrong.

(Message edited by CAskimmer on October 01, 2009)
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       10-01-2009, 12:44 PM Reply   
That's the second time in less than a month that I have heard about Rawson and LF. I heard it from a friend that has been in the industry for years. If it is true then LF could be stepping up.
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       10-01-2009, 12:44 PM Reply   
@ caskimmer - What's up? Did you get my emails?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-01-2009, 12:57 PM Reply   
LF already has the surf style kiteboard designed by Rawson, is this rumor a whole new shape specifically for behind the boat?

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Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       10-01-2009, 1:21 PM Reply   
We should all know that shaping without proper input isn't the smartest way to produce a board.

Until we start seeing wakesurf professionals on these teams, not wakeboarders who also wakesurf, the growth will be stunted. As soon as one of the biggies signs a true wakesurf pro, things will start lining up and getting better, at least as far as mass produced boards are concerned. For LF to have Rawson shaped wakesurfboards, a wakesurf pro team member can't be far behind (I hope)

This discussion parallels wakeskating in many ways. The best wakeskates are made by companies that are not biggies. It took time, but LF, HL have come to embrace the technology and specific rider input for wakeskating.
Old    clay (bigobuck)      Join Date: Sep 2009       10-02-2009, 12:49 PM Reply   
I was thinking about this Rawson thing a little more.

There is a difference with Rawson (or any shaper for that matter) innovating, designing, and shaping wakesurf boards for the sport and "consulting" on board design with one of the big boys. (I am not saying this is the case with Rawson and LF, just illustrating)

Unless a shaper embraces the sport and puts the time and effort into R&D, it will simply be one of the big boys leasing the name to bring credibility to the brand.

There is a shaper I know who really enjoys sitting in the boat watching how the board rides in the wake. He has said "there is a huge difference watching how a board reacts from about 10' away and watching it from the beach. The reaction you get instantly from the surfer is much more real and adds a lot the the design and development"

This is the type of innovation that the sport needs from shapers. Other than that, the shapers need $$$ to compete with the advertising $$$ from the big boys. If that doesn't happen the voting will always be lopsided.

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