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Old    Jeff Schwartz (jschwart73)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-07-2003, 11:29 AM Reply   
Friday morning, my family and some friends were out enjoying another lovely Delta morning. We got out pretty early understanding that traffic was going to be pretty hectic. We were glad to find Victoria Slough relatively quiet.

One of our riders had just stopped and we were picking him up. We were located on Victoria Slough, the Northern one, just past the entrance and about 15 feet out of the tules on the left side. On our right, about 40 feet away, was a black Super Air, who was also picking up a downed rider.

Along comes another boat, very large wake, pulling a rider. No other boats were following. Other boat has a few options.

1. Pass black SA on the right side of the SA. I'd say there was around 50 feet of room.
2. Pass in between black SA and myself, essentially threading the needle.
3. Stop the boat, let the rider fall and proceed when there is enough clearance.

Driver of other boat chose option 2. I've had quite a few times that I've been concerned about oncoming boat traffic (I'm a 20 year Delta vetran, ever since childhood so I'm not uncomfortable with close quarters), and this is the first time that I actually got scared. There was very little room between boats. Both myself and all of my passengers were in disbelief at the choice made. Even understanding that July 4th traffic on the Delta is crazy, I didn't expect this kind of unsafe driving. It would have been such a minor inconvienence for the driver to just top, pick up their rider and wait until it was safe to proceed.

So, I ask of you Delta folks, please make the right choice and don't "thread the needle" when you're out there.

Thanks!

-Jeff
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-07-2003, 11:42 AM Reply   
add this to the reasons that I won't move to cali.
Old    funky            07-07-2003, 12:05 PM Reply   
I'm guessin' Gainesville's a perfect world? Give me a break. Crap happens everywhere.

Sorry to hear that Jeff. I'd still rather ride the Delta than most lakes I've been to.

(Message edited by funky on July 07, 2003)
Old    whitechocolate            07-07-2003, 12:15 PM Reply   
Im glad no one got Hurt! On a Positive note. We gotta give props to the people out there who operate "Safe". When we see someone do somthing like option #3 or other acts of being cutrious to other boat's be sure to give a wave and let them know you apreciate there good driving. Like wise bad driving should be punished making people think before putting others in danger. I mean what can you do when some one is so close and CF # are so small how do you report someone with out chasing them down and making a big seen.
Old    John Sorensen (johns)      Join Date: Sep 2000       07-07-2003, 1:54 PM Reply   
Same Shizz happened to us this weekend, We were wakeboarding against the dam, turned around to pick up our fallen rider and out of nowhere a guy pulling a tuber goes in between us and the dam about 50ft. They almost sling there rider into the huge rocks lining the dam and close to running over our rope.

My wife even know how to drive better than this. She will pull up on the throttle if she is going to come within 100' of passing another boat. I just wish these morons would read post like this!!!
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-07-2003, 2:19 PM Reply   
We were riding early sun morning (6:30am) and some squid decided to follow us between the wakes about 20 yards behind the rider. This is on a lake that is about a mile wide, with only a couple boats visible. He did this for about 300 yards then pulled toward shore to dock. I think I should leave the water-balloon launcher in the boat at all times!!
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-07-2003, 2:29 PM Reply   
We were wakesurfing at our local lake and a guy towing a tube comes up along side of us and is staring at us - apparently had never seen anyone wakesurfing. But he wasn't looking to his right so he didn't see the wakeboarder fall. He was in the other boats wake with the rider in the water. I'm guessing he couldn't have been more than about 15 feet from her. He NEVER SAW HER. I was pointing and waving to him trying to get him to look but it was pure dumb luck that he didn't run over her. Really scary moment.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-07-2003, 2:51 PM Reply   
Jeff, option #3 is the way to go if you can not pass safely. However, option #3 is NOT the way to go if you CAN pass safely.

I see this all of the time. People think they are doing you a favor and they clog up the channel making it less safe and less enjoyable for many.
Old    wakelvr            07-07-2003, 3:16 PM Reply   
Okay, I have to chime in here. Especially after Danes comment because he is one of the only one's on this post that truly understands the delta and the risks of riding and driving on it.

The boat Jeff is referring to is MY BOAT. We have been going back and forth via emails and all is good between us. Although at first I didn't remember this specific episode, now it is vividly clear.

About 99.9% of the time I would definitely stop my boat and let my rider fall down to avoid close drive by's.... etc. HOWEVER, these sloughs are narrow. And as Jeff mentioned above, both riders were down close to the entrance of the slough. If indeed I went between two boats it's because I was concerned that having my rider fall would pose more threat then the threat already presented. In other words, if a 4th or 5th boat came around the corner (this is typical for Victoria Slough),then not only do you have two down riders, you have three. And 3 boats trying to idle back to their riders..... This would pose a greater threat.

If I decided not to pass on the right, well then.... why is that.. Was the boat on the right not in line with his rider maybe posing a risk of me hitting one of them? Was the rope in the water? Was it too shallow? Was their rocks? Every case is specific but regardless of this... I feel bad that I made the other two crews uneasy because I passed too close. For that, I am sorry.

You do not know how many times I have stopped my boat in the middle of a pull because I was coming up too close behind another rider or boat... or had to squeeze too close to a downed rider. I even did this on Monday when I saw a yaht coming that was producing 7 ft wakes... We powerturned back to my rider, picked him up (with board still on) and got the heck away so that the wake of this yaht did not kill him or us for that matter.

I feel very bad that I alarmed these two crews. The last thing I want to do is cause panic or harm. But I can say in all good conscience that I did what I thought was best at the time. I am not one of those idiots out there drinking and driving a boat, or causing chaos on the water.

Also, one other thing I do that I wish more people would do.... I raise my arm/hand to other boaters/riders when passing close to let them to let them know that I see them.

Happy Boarding everyone....
Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-07-2003, 3:41 PM Reply   
A good idea is that if you are a rider passing another downed rider/stopped boat on a narrow delta slough, don't throw your "Hollywood" move, which usually leaves you in the water right next to the other guy, or decide to stop right next to them. It's a better idea to get in front of the boat before throwing tricks or stopping so that there is no needle to thread therefore alot less danger for everyone. As Dane said, having 2 or 3 boats stacked up blocking a slough is dangerous for everyone. I've seen alot of this lately.
By the way Stefani is nuts out there, I would pee my pants if I saw her coming and I was in the water! Nah, Just kidding Stefani.
Old    wakelvr            07-07-2003, 4:03 PM Reply   
Please keep in mind that a lot of what I learned came straight from the mouth of Mr. Pee Pants himself.... hahaha, right back at ya!

One other thing I do with my riders is if I know we are gong to stop in the middle of a pull, I give them the kill it sign and point them in the direction that I need them to fall. I did this with one of my riders this weekend when we were coming up on another boat... He cut out heelside next to the tullies and dropped. That way... if anyone came up behind us.... it was safer for them to pass.

Obviously when you are doing tricks you don't know for sure where or when you are going to fall. But.... when turning the corners at Victoria slough (or any other slough for that matter), wait until you get further up the slough to do your tricks. If you fall at or close to the opening of the slough, this could be very risky as boats can come around the corner and not see your fallen rider...

Example: Railroad Slough.... Delta?? Great water but probably one of the most dangerous sloughs out there.
Old    CAwakesk8r (hatepwcs)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-07-2003, 4:10 PM Reply   
i second the raising the arm. 5 years ago it was standard practice. Now its just forgotten. When i do raise my arm most people look at me like ive got a screw loose. The narrow miss i had a few weeks ago though was completely avoidable. The D-bag in the Centurion was just retarded....ooops sorry thats not fair to the retarded population. Safe boating, use more common sense.
Old    CAwakesk8r (hatepwcs)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-07-2003, 4:13 PM Reply   
railroad is cool if everyone goes the same direction on either side.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-07-2003, 4:26 PM Reply   
I guess the raising hand thing is just habit. My dad taught me all the signs so I still use the raised hand to let boats know I see the down skier and line in the water. Riding on the delta or any narrow body of water it is a useful sign to the other boat so they don't freak out.
Old    whitechocolate            07-07-2003, 6:22 PM Reply   
Stefani: Small world! Im glad to hear you got everything straight with Jeff: I know your not a Delta "kook" and you know what's up. Like in a earlyer thread you had talked about almost running your husband over with the boat and how a day slated for fun can quickly turn into a "Nightmare" with just one move. you never know what around the corner? I guess that is the Dark side about Wakeboarding, One min Fun, Sun, Friends, Water, the next??? well let's not go there, Glad to hear everyone is safe and cool with it.
Old    sonicr1            07-07-2003, 6:25 PM Reply   
I frequent the Delta quite often. I will not go on weekends (and especially not on a holiday weekend!!!), because of the squid factor.

Having said that, just coming back from Lake Shasta (my favorite place on earth), the Delta is the BEST place on earth for watersport conditions!!!!

And what is it about towing a tube... Attach the tube, disconnect the brain???? I have had a few large issues with tube tow'ers!!! Drive in the slough like the road, CLOCKWISE!!!!! AND DON'T CUT ME OFF!!!!!

:-)
Old    Jeff Schwartz (jschwart73)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-07-2003, 6:47 PM Reply   
About 10 mins after first posting about this, Stefani emailed me to ask if it was her I was talking about. She definitely explained why she did it and I appreciate her apology and explanation. As far as I'm concerned, things are cool with us!

She does need to stop blasting fabulous 80's music though. This is a very dangerous practice and should be done in the controlled environment of your own home, not on the Delta. The Delta sharks go into a feeding frenzy when they hear 80's music, especially hair bands.

-Jeff
Old    Patty (wakeboardrn)      Join Date: May 2002       07-07-2003, 8:30 PM Reply   
I don't know if it was the wakeboarding to "Flashdance" or wakeskating to ABBA that got me this weekend, but Stefani and her 80s music is something else. :-)

I'm glad you and Stef worked it out!
Old    wakelvr            07-07-2003, 9:07 PM Reply   
By the way everyone, Patty, who recently lost her groove (so she says), got most of it back this weekend. And I happen to believe that the music could have had something to do with it. She was landing all her hs and ts 180's..... Patty, was it the Go Go's or Blondie? And don't even bother denying it. I have you on video boarding to and mouthing every word of "what a feeling" and "my lips are sealed!"

....and in response to Jeff's comment above... about 10 minutes after I sent him an apology, he emailed me back saying he almost broke out his leg warmers to go with my music from the movie... Flashdance!



80's Rock! Good times to all...
Old    norcal_99            07-07-2003, 10:24 PM Reply   
When Jeff said "Along comes another boat, very large wake" I just knew he was talking about a Mastercraft.

Old    tclagggym            07-07-2003, 11:10 PM Reply   
Hey Delta Folks,
I was up there June 27th & 28th, I have the orange SAN03. I saw the black SAN.How come they don't just post a one way sign by the railroad?
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-07-2003, 11:31 PM Reply   
I have been tempted to get some one-way signs and put them up. People would follow them even though they were not official.
Old    aka Bradley Beach            07-08-2003, 6:51 AM Reply   
This so called Delta sounds dangerous and small... Any pics to give us midwesterners an idea of what you are all talking about?
Old    King of PoP (troyl)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-08-2003, 7:09 AM Reply   
This raising the hand thing is great but cracks me up when it comes from a passenger in the boat. I really would rather know that the driver sees my downed rider.
Old    akman            07-08-2003, 7:17 AM Reply   
Stefani, Trouble maker!
Old    husband's name Day            07-08-2003, 7:19 AM Reply   
That's funny, dude!!! I've seen the same thing myself and I can picture the people in the passenger seat waving all goofy like and the driver in la la land... maybe the've seen people like the above waving to signal seeing a downed rider, but they didn't know what was up so they wave just to be "cool"....who know, but its funny!!!!
Old    Gregg Vogt (blackandblue)      Join Date: Oct 2002       07-08-2003, 7:40 AM Reply   
I have to chime in too.
I've been a delta rat for about 13 years now. Yes there are idiots out there.
BUT the delta is also a place where you find some of the best drivers as well. (survival of the fittest most likely) At Victoria and Railroad most of the drivers know the routine. You can tell a lot of these drivers are seasoned vets. They enter the ski rotation (at the slough entrance) properly and courteously. In those sloughs I get the "I see your down skier" wave about 90% of the time and I give it 100%. As for the friendly "howz it goin" wave I get that from almost everyone out there (even before I had such a cool boat and everyone wanted to be my friend).
I was over in the Walnut Grove area this last weekend and it was as crowded as ever. There were several times when driverís courtesy and their skills/etiquette really stunned and impressed me.
Instead of complaining I'm thankful to be out there with all of you skilled drivers who care about what your doing while setting the example for others to follow. I truly appreciate those of you who try hard to make it enjoyable for everyone out there.
Cheers-
Old    funky            07-08-2003, 8:29 AM Reply   
Along w/ the One Way signs, underneathe it should be a No Powerturns sign.

KState, the Delta's not small at all. It's over 1000 miles of waterways located in Central and Northern California. Some channels, or sloughs, are 4ft. wide, whereas other sloughs are over an eighth of a mile wide.

Victoria Slough, for the most part, is pretty wide, and consists of 2 channels running parallel w/ one another. It's an unwritten rule that one side goes one way, and the other side goes the other way, much like a 2-lane roadway. Unfortunately, not everyone knows this rule, or simply doesn't abide by the rule. It's not a law, so they can do what they want, but it's just courtesy.

Railroad Slough is much like Victoria Slough in that it's 2 parallel sloughs, with one exception...there are railroad tracks in between the 2 sloughs, thus the name. Railroad though, is much more narrow than Victoria. If you're on a long line, you can literally cut out and hit the toolies or rocks, so you really should be experienced in both riding AND driving when riding Railroad. That's my opinion, anyway.

By the way, I did that "I see your downed rider" hand wave up here in Washington, and the other boat looked at me like I'm crazy.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       07-08-2003, 8:50 AM Reply   
I used to ride Railroad all the time. The only time I ever head there is when it is super windy and the South side is the only place to ride. We make passes back and forth going out into the channels on the side to turn around, which is the scary part as people fly up and down them. RR on the South side is so narrow that my Nautique would throw spray onto on coming boats with the help of the wind. It is also one of the few places that right after passing another boat I can spin a 360, land inside their wakes and never feel the tug on the line or the wakes.

I am also one who does not hesitate to cut the throttle on the boat until everything in front is sorted out. Raising the hand is a comfort to the rider let alone the boat driver. "Cool they saw us"

When out at Victoria we have talked about putting one way signs up many times. There would need to be about 10 signs to completely cover the entire slough. Other than stealing them off a road anyone know where to get one way signs? I would lay down some cash towards the cause.
Old    wakelvr            07-08-2003, 8:52 AM Reply   
We were just discussing the idea of placing one way signs out on some of the sloughs. I think it could help, especially at Railroad where you see an occasional boat going the wrong direction.

I have to back up Mike's comment above. If people would wait until they pass downed riders before they perform a trick, then we would essentially eliminate or at least reduce the possibility of having to "thread the needle".

By the way, In addition to the delta sharks and unknown creatures swimming in the delta, I've seen a lot of snakes out near the tullies lately. Just thought I would throw that out there.....
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       07-08-2003, 9:05 AM Reply   
Yeah I try to let the riders know not to blast tricks in certain areas or at certain times. But it never fails when I forget to metion it and it's a newbie on the boat, that they try some over their head trick at the worst possible time. Uggghhhhh I am so embaresed when that happens, I always wave a apoligetic gesture at the other boats in the area, and then the rider gets in a little or a lot of S$$$ from me.

It's the old I need to blast a trick when all can see me complex.

At my home lake we have a narrow area you have to go through on one end, one day I forgot to mention to a third we picked up to be cool there. Well he eats it right in the narrow section, boats are everywhere, there is double and triple ups everywhere, the boat is getting swamped because I can't really give it any serious power in the narrow section, not to mention all the boats are getting p$$$$$ because we are blocking the channel pretty bad, damm I wanted to crawl under my dash and die LOLOLOLOL to say the least that rider will never do that again! LOLOL

I love the delta, you guys have it made up there, we are heading there for an annual Labor Day weekend trip. If any of you are out, I would love to hook up while we are there. Man I wish I could get up there more often! But even on Labor Day weekend we seem to always be able to find a slough with very little or no traffic. Priceless!
Old    hyperlitenerd (hyperlitenrd)      Join Date: Jan 2003       07-08-2003, 9:07 AM Reply   
Well im glad to say, that my dad falls into the good driver slot. When we were at don Pedro a couple of weekedns ago, me and my friend, who had just learnd how to wakeboard, were going doubles. he finnaly had gotten up again, and the jet boat, come flying down out of no where, cutting off my dad, with no more than 20 ft. My dad thankfully cuts the engine, and lets us sink. My dad always told me to drive, like everyone else is a moron, so u'll always expect them to do someting dumb
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       07-08-2003, 9:41 AM Reply   
K-State

Here is a general map of the Delta.

http://www.anglernet.com/web/maps/delta1.htm

Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-08-2003, 9:45 AM Reply   
Here is a picture of Railroad slough


Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       07-08-2003, 9:49 AM Reply   
Mike, Delta locals -

Remember when the sloughs looked like this? Is it fall / winter yet ;)

Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-08-2003, 9:52 AM Reply   
Yeah, this was in Feb. All Day long.
Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-08-2003, 9:58 AM Reply   
Here's a pic of how the riding is now. Notice the guy is riding in the trough of my wake behind Cory. The guy wasn't trying to pass, he pulled a rider to that point and stayed there until I could get Cory to a clear spot to drop him.



Old    funky            07-08-2003, 10:01 AM Reply   
2 words...

Potato Gun
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-08-2003, 10:02 AM Reply   
Too bad you can't send the guy a ticket based on his CF numbers. WHAT DUMBASS.
Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-08-2003, 10:09 AM Reply   
I pulled up and politely told him I did not appreciate it and that it was illegal to be that close but he just acted like he didn't care. We told him that we had his CF #'s on video and would send it to the police if he did it again.
Surprising that a guy pulling his ~13 year old daughter on a kneeboard would be so inconsiderate. As we pulled away his wife piped up and said, "Well we live here!". Guess that makes'em my neighbors too. After that comment my crew became a little less polite as I drove away. I've seen him many times since and he doesn't come near my boat.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       07-08-2003, 10:11 AM Reply   
How about the Coast Guard following too close in my opinion.

Railroad South side. I will not support this being a one way slough. If it is too narrow for comfort, then leave it for the experienced.
Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-08-2003, 10:14 AM Reply   
The Coast Guard guys were probably just looking for the USCGA tag on his vest.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       07-08-2003, 10:17 AM Reply   
Except that picture was taken before the CGA vest laws took effect by a couple of years.
Old    Mike (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       07-08-2003, 10:20 AM Reply   
I was just joking Peter...
Old    funky            07-08-2003, 10:26 AM Reply   
Fight!

I gots my money on Peter. That guy's crazy!!!
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       07-08-2003, 10:29 AM Reply   
Trying to start something there Jose U.? Haha I could never win a dance off with that Mike guy!
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-08-2003, 10:42 AM Reply   
jose, by the way, here is what we have to deal with on a regular basis, take special note of the name of the .jpg:

http://www.djtimmy.com/wakeboarding/5_17_03/2pm_sat_afternoon.JPG
Old    dbdynsty25            07-08-2003, 10:48 AM Reply   
That is so unfair Tim.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-08-2003, 10:50 AM Reply   
scott, if it makes you feel any better, there are alligators there :-)
Old    funky            07-08-2003, 10:50 AM Reply   
And hurricanes.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-08-2003, 10:57 AM Reply   
luckily hurricanes are just strong storms this far inland. not a big deal.
Old    dbdynsty25            07-08-2003, 10:58 AM Reply   
Ohhh...yeah, that does make me feel better. Nothing like a faceplant with ballslap followed by getting your legs sheared off at the hips by an alligator while being swept away by a hurricane.
Old    funky            07-08-2003, 10:59 AM Reply   
Now you've done it. You're gonna get slammed this hurricane season! :-)
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-08-2003, 11:01 AM Reply   
haha yeah luckily my desk is made of wood. time to go to the lake, I'll get pictures of the butta today for ya.
Old    funky            07-08-2003, 11:02 AM Reply   
Ok, I'll get pics of butter from my neck of the woods later today.
Old    norcal_99            07-08-2003, 3:38 PM Reply   
The delta sucks much @ss. All you out of towners stay away. We're all crazy drivers and there's sharks.
Old    norcal_99            07-08-2003, 3:40 PM Reply   
Peter, You should have stopped and asked the Coast Guard not to follow so close.
Old    norcal_99            07-08-2003, 3:43 PM Reply   
Jose,

You going to Shasta?

Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-08-2003, 7:17 PM Reply   
Sharks haha

I saw a seal.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-08-2003, 7:47 PM Reply   
butta today with one other wakeboard boat and a fisherman or two on the whole lake (then again it IS tuesday:


http://www.djtimmy.com/wakeboarding/7_8_03/butta_7_8_03_3pm.JPG

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