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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through November 04, 2009

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Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-09-2009, 7:56 PM Reply   
Seems my progress is too slow for wakeworld, been bumped to the archive:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/700492.html

Quick update, ready for the final install now. I have mounted the control pad all ready and drilled for the hinges, just got to finish it off. Should be back at the lake house in a week or so.
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I wanted to check the full travel and confirm than it would travel smoothly with two rams attached. I can get 30mm up and 40mm down which should be ample.
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Dad has finished the brain, he did an awesome job. Props to Pops!
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Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-09-2009, 10:05 PM Reply   
looking like it needs to get get wet and try it out
can't wait for another update
Old    Montgomery (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-10-2009, 9:07 AM Reply   
Sweet Beaver ! I love it
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-17-2009, 2:39 AM Reply   
Ok got everything installed today and took it for a test run. We took a guess at the HZ the PP paddle wheel would be putting out and got it pretty wrong. We though it would be in the 150-200 Hz range for 15-18mph. Turns out the HZ range is 70hz = 17mph. Unfortunately our box won't adjust down that low to set the change over point. No biggie but we have to adjust the circuit and try again. Plate works great in manual tho, putting it full down (40mm below horizontal) really pushes the nose down, bow rise = zero and full up (30mm above horizontal) pulls the tab completely out of the water. Even running with no ballast and two in the boat You could tell the difference in plane up time between down and up.
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Also one of the new PP bezel fitted. Pretty!
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Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       07-17-2009, 7:07 AM Reply   
Yea that post archive issue sucks, Just bump it with a update every now & then. Still want a controller!
Old    pete c (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-17-2009, 2:52 PM Reply   
good stuff!!! pics of the wake with/without the trim tab?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-17-2009, 3:19 PM Reply   
I totally forgot to take pics of the wake. When the auto function didn't work like we expected we focused all our time on finding out what was happening. It was freezing cold and starting to drizzle so we headed in after measuring the HZ from the paddle wheel.

There was tonnes of spray produced when at speed with the plate full down, the angle of the plate seemed to squeeze water out sides of the plate and create two large rooster tails, it would have been knocked down by the platform but we were running with it off so we could see the plate clearly. Not sure if thats normal or not, it certainly flattened the wake significantly. It was cool to drive along with the plate up the spray was coming off the hull behind the driver, as you moved the plate down the nose would drop and the spray would move forward until it was peeling off in front of the driver.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-17-2009, 3:42 PM Reply   
That is exactly how my Centurions react to the trim tab
Old    Trevor Dean (drilldaddy78)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-17-2009, 7:19 PM Reply   
What was the cost of this project. I have a sanger as well and have been thinking of doing the same thing.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       07-17-2009, 7:32 PM Reply   
What was the parts and labor cost of the control box if you don't mind me asking?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-01-2009, 9:56 PM Reply   
I'm not sure on how expensive the electronics are, I would think about $100 worth, electronic stuff is pretty cheap, the cost is more in time.

So got back down to the lake house this weekend, My Dad hasn't finished the version two of the brain yet but I got to play around with the tab manually and took some photos of how it changes the wake. I am really pleased with how much adjustment you can make as far as size and steepness. Not sure on how much difference it makes to plane up time because the boss was driving and its hard to know what she is doing with the throttle between starts.

All photos with approx 2k of ballast and two people in boat. Was pretty windy and bit choppy so the wake pics are a bit lumpy.

First with plate full up, this obviously has no effect as the plate is out of the water by about 10mm
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Next is plate in the middle. Noticeably rampier and a bit smaller
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Full down. This is the "plane up" position and really drives the nose down, makes a total mess of the wake tho.
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This is my assistant. Lots of comments about how "It was cold" and "You are a nut" etc etc. Luckily she can drive straight when required and back the truck or she would be outta there.
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(Message edited by Ralph on August 01, 2009)
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-01-2009, 10:09 PM Reply   
More pics of the assistant:-)
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-01-2009, 10:45 PM Reply   
You have to manually trim the plate back down each time you stop ,right? or does it control both directions?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-01-2009, 10:50 PM Reply   
No both directions. Once you set the ride position using the center dial it puts it up and down every time you start (up) and stop (down)
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-01-2009, 10:56 PM Reply   
Sweet!, I was wandering why it was cold until I looked at your profile. Were still in the middle of summer in Florida.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-12-2009, 7:39 PM Reply   
I'm bumping so you don't wind up in the archive again..
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-20-2009, 5:10 PM Reply   
Got the updated box from pops. Busy this weekend but might be able to shoot down during the week.
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Old    Stew (aussie_stu)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-21-2009, 3:58 PM Reply   
looks sick ralph, just a Q, did you ever consider having 2 tabs, that way as well as pushing nose down for take off, you could even the boat out while running.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-21-2009, 4:24 PM Reply   
No not really, I think the best way to even up a wake is to run even weight in the boat. I might have considered it for surfing so you can unbalance the boat to create a better wave but dual tabs looks pretty naf IMO and makes the controls a lot more complicated.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-29-2009, 1:28 PM Reply   
So tested out the box during the week. Something went wrong and I cooked the main two mosfets which control the UP/Down polarity in the box. Bugger. Not sure if my rams have died and shorted the mosfets or there is a problem in the box. We are replacing the mosfets with higher current models and will try again this week sometime. Its hard doing development work when the boat is 200 miles away at the lake.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       08-29-2009, 4:03 PM Reply   
It could be easy, if you have a air compressor & a adjustable pen style blower spin the paddle wheel with air & watch the spedo

(Message edited by Otown_dave on August 29, 2009)
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-30-2009, 7:38 PM Reply   
Found the problem, we had the Source and drain reversed on the mosfets. Got the box in my hot little hands, might get back down this sometime this week.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-09-2009, 8:06 PM Reply   
If you put the plate all the way down do you get a flatter ski wake at 30+ mph?

Also, did it help to eliminate the porpoise effect at high speed?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-09-2009, 8:16 PM Reply   
I haven't had a chance to play around with it without the ballast in the boat yet but yes, there is a massive difference in wake output between up and down and yes zero porpoise.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-18-2009, 1:35 AM Reply   
It works! So happy. The automatic plate movement works perfectly. I did a little bit of testing on how much the plate position changes plane up time, with a full throttle start:
Manual, plate up: 11 seconds
Auto, plate down & up: 9 seconds

I also tested with "normal" throttle levels which is a little harder to gauge because its tough to know if you are putting the throttle in exactly the same place every time but with 2/3 throttle start:
Manual, plate up: 16 seconds
Auto, plate down & up: 12 seconds

Not sure how this will translate to overall running cost savings but I guess it will help to some degree.

Also had a play around with the surf wake, the plate really helps to tune the surf wake as well, without the plate we drive in a curve to keep the wave clean and a nice shape, with the plate you can drive straight and use the plate the clean the wave completely. Happy days.

The way it effects the attitude of the boat during plane up is really really nice. ZERO bow rise, the V210 starts pretty flat anyway but now there is literally no bow rise at all. Dope.

I need a bit more time with the system to know what its going to be like on a normal day of riding but so far, super impressed.

So to sum up, trim tabs enhance the performance of any boat whether they "need" one or not. Automatic tab movement is what PP is to driving. I am so happy. Next project, heated seats.....
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-18-2009, 7:18 AM Reply   
Thats really awesome man now we just need to be able to get our hands on these modules you and your father built.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-18-2009, 9:02 AM Reply   
Congratulations Darren. Do the passenger seat first... it's politically expedient.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-18-2009, 10:22 AM Reply   
Awesome... We're working on the same project for our X-star this winter. Hoping to get the bow rise down as well as the plane times. Once that happens we can run more weight....
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-18-2009, 11:16 AM Reply   
sweet project! Now are you going to make a how to for us peeps that already have the plate? I would be intersted installing an automatic plate rather than my current manual one.
Old    walt            09-28-2009, 8:03 PM Reply   
Nice work !
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-01-2009, 10:48 PM Reply   
A quick update. Just had our annual "boys trip" away where we load the boat up and ride hard for 4 days. The plate is awesome with extra weight, from what I can tell the running cost saving using the plate is between 25-30%. This is with the plate only used during plane up phase then fully retracted when riding. Specifically this year we averaged 2 gallons per set, last year was 2.8gph. I don't think there are any other variables that can explain such a big difference, same crew, same weight setup same number of sets per day. I am pretty surprised that such a big saving is possible, I can only imagine it would be even greater for boats that tend to wallow when weighted up (Xstar for instance)

This is the wake we were producing @ 2gph per set. 23.2mph, 80ft line.



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Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       11-02-2009, 5:37 AM Reply   
hey Darren, If your not going to make us some how about a parts list & a diagram so we can have one made. Even package it as a do-it-yourself kit if you can source the parts cheap. You & your dad put alot of time into this & it works well so it's time to share!
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-02-2009, 11:01 PM Reply   
Darren, two gallons per hour? Wow. I run probably half the weight you do and the best I can manage is around four gallons per hour...
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-02-2009, 11:11 PM Reply   
No 2 gallons per set. I haven't kept track of actual engine hrs.

Dave I have the circuit diagrams for the controller, I will email it to you in a few days

(Message edited by ralph on November 02, 2009)
Old    Rob Andrus (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-28-2012, 9:17 AM Reply   
This is a sick idea. Pattent and produce it, then start selling it to the big boys. Gas saving ideas are huge with prices going back up. Make some money.

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