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Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       07-21-2009, 6:35 AM Reply   
I shot a bunch of pictures this weekend right at Sunset in much lower light than I normally shoot in.

Usually, I shoot in aperature priority and adjust it so the shutter speed is around 1/1500 to 1/2500 and go with it. I am usually around f4 to 6.3

In the lower light even at f2.8, my shutter speed wasn't fast enough to stop motion and get clear shots. After reviewing the pictures I think I know what I have should have done...

Go to shutter priority and set it to 1/1500 and then crank the ISO up until I get a properly exposed picture... probably around 1600. Is that right? Any other suggestions for low light wakeboarding? I guess I could have used my 580EX but didn't have it along and am not real skilled with using it yet.
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-21-2009, 9:17 AM Reply   
Yes, that's the only thing you can do. You are going to introduce noise at 1600... depending on your camera.

A flash won't work for two reasons. The rider is going to be too far away to have any great effect. But more importantly is your flash sync speed. Cameras have a flash sync speed of 1/200 - 1/500. Too slow of a shutter speed for you if you are trying to freeze it at 1/1500.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-21-2009, 7:09 PM Reply   
It's hard to freeze action without a flash. This is about as low a light level as I've ever shot. 1/1000th, ISO2500, pushed 2/3rds of a stop. I like the mood of these type shots which is tough to get with a flash.



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Old    Chris Anthony (russian)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-21-2009, 7:11 PM Reply   
Actually, you can use flash to stop action, and it can be a great tool. But there is a large learning curve. Also, on camera flash will not work(in this situation) without a flash extender(the name escapes me right now, but it's what wildlife shooters use)
Old    Bakes (bakes5)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-22-2009, 6:55 AM Reply   
I believe the flash extender is called a tube-n-pocketwizarderorlator
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-22-2009, 7:06 AM Reply   
The one Arthur Morris is always touting is the Better Beamer.
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-22-2009, 8:22 AM Reply   
Better Beamer - I just googled it. What an interesting contraption.
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With the lens and teleconverters on this camera, I would say he is shooting very far away. I'm thinking it may work.
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-22-2009, 1:10 PM Reply   
This was pretty much taken at night it was a lot darker than the picture looks no flash you can take good shots but they start to get a little grainy at higher ISO's. Wouldn't ever run in a mag because of how grainy it is, but you can get some enjoyable shots for yourself.
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Old    Matt Roy (mroy)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-22-2009, 6:10 PM Reply   
the better beamer looks like a normal snoot, just a narrow beam of light on what looks like a canon 580ex flash
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       07-23-2009, 10:13 AM Reply   
Why would you need that with a 580EX? I have that flash and I think it has a range of like 100' or something. I'd think it would put out plenty of light for a rider 80' back.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-23-2009, 8:41 PM Reply   
If you have a chance check out the bird photography of Arthur Morris, he is a wizard with that thing. I got one a while back but have never used it. In that shot above I doubt the guy is more then 40 or 50 feet from the bird. Not sure if it would be very good on a wakeboarder.
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-23-2009, 9:28 PM Reply   
Riley - with the D700 you can shoot iso 3600 at midnight and it looks like the middle of the day with no grain.. ;-) Do you have http://www.neatimage.com/ If not, shoot me the original of Bordie's pic and lets see what it can do..
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-24-2009, 11:00 AM Reply   
I like the grain in this shot
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-26-2009, 1:18 PM Reply   
Hey Rob,

By no means am I an expert in flash, but it doesn't work that way. The 580EX has a GN unit of 190 I think. You divide that by the f stop being used and that gives you the distance it can reach the subject and fully cover them.

So GN of 190 shooting at f/4 will be 47.5 feet.
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-26-2009, 1:35 PM Reply   
Hey Steezy Ever use Noiseware or Noise Ninja?

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Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-27-2009, 8:20 AM Reply   
Ho I use Photoshop CS4. Like I said I like the noise in that shot
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-27-2009, 7:14 PM Reply   
I'm glad you finally said "noise" instead of "grain", I was going to call you out with "it ain't film dude!"UploadUpload

I'm a big noise ninja fan, I'm sure I probably ran that shot of chris above through it. Between the high ISO capabilities and software we won't need flashes much longer!
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-27-2009, 8:26 PM Reply   
I cam sleep tonight now that I have your approval.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-27-2009, 8:37 PM Reply   
wow...i've never heard of anyone being a fan of noise.

i "ninja'd" the same pic above in a previous thread.

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Old    Ryan Taylor (wakesurf12)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2009, 9:42 PM Reply   
If you were to go b&w with it I totally would be fine with the noise in the picture but when it is in color then it just seems too "digital"

Just my opinion.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-27-2009, 10:06 PM Reply   
But even still, you're gonna need to kill some of that noise. There's just too much of it.
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-27-2009, 11:50 PM Reply   
same through noiseware
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Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-27-2009, 11:58 PM Reply   
i applied like 1% effort. knowing you, you busted your ass on that fix.
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-28-2009, 1:20 AM Reply   
joe - did you watch those tutorials yet?
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-28-2009, 1:40 AM Reply   
Come to think of Riley.. I don't like the crop, grain, noise, or the colors, so I made a few changes. (I hope you don't mind..?)

I like to think of this in the same light as what AMG does for Mercedes, Ruf for Porsche, Dinan for BMW, etc.. Just tak'n it to the next level.

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Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 7:17 AM Reply   
Hahahahhahahaha! Punks!
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 7:19 AM Reply   
I bet David's edit would totally run in a mag!
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
I don't know RT looks a little "Grainy" to me in B&W
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Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 8:31 AM Reply   
I am surprised none of you have said this, but this may just be my film photog teacher shining through.

You cannot rely on post processing to fix a photo that isn't shot well in the 1st place.

If it has a lot of noise you may be able to massage it but it will never be as good as taking a better picture.

Here is my version done in CS4
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Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-28-2009, 9:10 AM Reply   
I don't think anyone here was trying to say that was shot well in the first place.
Old    Steve Bates (steve_b)      Join Date: Feb 2004       08-04-2009, 1:18 PM Reply   
HAHAHAhahaha. I actually laughed out loud a little bit at scott a's post.

To me, it looks like Brodie's legs are shaved which is a far bigger deal than the noise issue.
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-04-2009, 1:34 PM Reply   
Scott knows what it's like to take a bad picture!
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       08-04-2009, 2:08 PM Reply   
I also know when to hit the delete button instead of posting them on wakeworld.
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-04-2009, 3:02 PM Reply   
Ouch.
Old    RileyBangerter (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-04-2009, 3:24 PM Reply   
really? because posting on WW means sooo much!



(Message edited by steezyshots on August 04, 2009)
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-06-2009, 8:37 AM Reply   
I think the SW needs to be renamed Noisewar!Upload
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-07-2009, 12:05 AM Reply   
This place is becoming worse than craig's list...!
Old    Joshua (trojanman)      Join Date: May 2002       08-11-2009, 3:35 PM Reply   
I agree with big B on this one... leave the noise -take it out..... but for the sake of all that is Man - keep your leg hair growing my friends.

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