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Old    benvh            06-25-2003, 10:38 AM Reply   
What's everyone's take on Moomba? How's the wake...quality of the boat etc...
Old    tommyadrian5            06-25-2003, 10:43 AM Reply   
This topic has been beat to this discussion board, do a search for moomba. From my take, its hit or miss. They definitely aren't near the quality of a Nautique or Mastercraft, but they are so cheap that if you don't mind only using the boat half the summer you can use the money you save on the purchase fixing it. The company that makes them(as well as the dealerships) is pretty bad for service and warranty claims, which most people seem to have alot of. In terms of construction, just try not to hit any wakes...ever. Some people are happy with them, frankly, I have a 1999 Mastercraft X-5 that I got a hell of alot cheaper used than a new Moomba, and I don't have to worry about it falling apart on me.
Old    danp            06-25-2003, 11:19 AM Reply   
Tom,

What are you talking about, Skiers Choice handles warranty issues as well as any other manufacterer. I've read post after post of happy moomba owners on this board. Stormrider seem to be the most negative about moomba on this board and his warranty issue was with Indmar from what I read. You will get no better warranty performance from any other manufacterer on OEM parts. Enjoy your Prostar with a cage, It seems to me you are buying into the Big 3 or nothing line it makes me tired to hear it over and over
Old    barryb            06-25-2003, 12:38 PM Reply   
The quality of warranty support is largely a function of the local dealer.
But then... I had a moomba with a 1 year vinyl warranty... It needed it. I had a tige with a longer vinyl warranty... It didn't cover stitching. I found out the hard way when all the vinyl tore at the stitching.
Then I had a correct craft. 3 year vinyl warranty. Haven't needed it, but I'm only at two years.

My personal opinion on the 1998 Moomba Mobius I owned was that the build quality was excellent but the materials quality was low. Thin fiberglass. plywood for the dash (even though advertised as no wood). Vinyl was short lived, etc.

My brother also bought a 1998 Mobius. None of the pretty stuff is pretty anymore, but it's still tight and runs great.
Old    stormrider            06-25-2003, 12:57 PM Reply   
Ben: Tom's right that there's been a lot of discussion about Moomba and Dan's right about the problems I've had. Check out David Garland's 6/24/03 thread "Moomba Outback" for the latest discussion. Fogey references the prior thread where we pretty much laid it all out, and he also gives you the link to jump right into that thread. Skier's Choice is trying hard and they are attentive, I've just got my concerns, especially with the warranty. I don't agree with people saying all mfgs warrant the same. Nautique, I'm told, does 5 year bumper to bumper and if the PCM motor breaks Nautique fixes it. They don't tell you to take your concerns to Ford.
I only wish my Moomba was more reliable. The wake is fine. The boat looks good, and for the price of a Nautique you can get a Moomba and a very nice tow vehicle.

Good luck.
Old    tommyadrian5            06-25-2003, 1:29 PM Reply   
Mastercraft is likewise, warranty is "bumper to bumper" ie. you don't have to mess around with indmar if your engine messes up, the dealer deals with everything from defective guages to engine problems, not that you are likely to have any on a boat that is built solidly. I bought my boat used, out of warranty, but knowing that it is of superior build quality and i wasn't likely to have any serious issues other than normal wear and tear, plus, i paid so little for it that even if something did go wrong i wouldn't care as much.

(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on June 25, 2003)
Old    chip_boarder            06-25-2003, 2:27 PM Reply   
I bought a 2003 Moomba LSV gravity games boat in April. I have had nothing but problems from the momement I signed the papers. I have had problems with the dealer and with Skiers Choice. If anyone is interested I can give you a list. After 3 months of having this boat here are a list of the items Skiers Choice and the dealer have not resolved.
1. Perfect Pass still doesn't work properly. Had it in the shop twice and it is still not fixed.
2. 2 cracks (3-4 inches)in the finish. One at the front of the boat and the other near the tower. The dealer said the cracks are so big they won't touch it. They will have to send it to a body shop.
3. Eyelets are missing for the bimimi top.

I have the wakeplate and 3 fat sack system and the wake isn't that great. I have to borrow my friend fat sack and fill a waterbed tube to get a good wake.

The boat came with a 3 year warranty, but what good does it do when them don't fix stuff.

THIS IS A COOL LOOKING BOAT, BUT HAS BEEN A HEADACHE.

I have owned a 1989 Starcraft and 1998 Larson. I have had more problems with this Moomba that both of my boats put together.
Old    stormrider            06-25-2003, 2:40 PM Reply   
Attention all: I have never met, do not know and had no hand in Chip's post! Chip, I know what it's like. I've got you a couple better though. My list is longer and my boat's been back to the shop 3 times and the main problem still isn't fixed. Like I said, I think Skier's Choice is trying hard but I don't think they get what it means now to be selling expensive luxury products. Good luck on getting everything fixed.
Old    Rick Tinker (rickt)      Join Date: May 2002       06-25-2003, 7:29 PM Reply   
Chip,
If you could email me directly at rtinker@skierschoice.com. I work at Skiers Choice. I will try to improve the treatment you have recieved on this. Sorry to hear of your frustrations. I look forward to hearing from you.

Rick Tinker
Old    wantboatnow            06-25-2003, 8:50 PM Reply   
This shows true customer service here, Rick Tinker taking time out of his evening to come onto WW and post about customer service issues. It seems that warrenty issues/ problems are at the dealer end, not manufacter end.
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-28-2003, 10:20 PM Reply   
This is a topic right up my alley!! I bought a 2002 Moomba Outback last spring and I've had a few minor things go wrong. Nothing that warranted me to send it to the dealership and take away from my water time. I've had a drain hole that clogged under the back seat. Minor! A corner of one of the letters in vinyl on the side of the boat peeled a little. Again, Minor!! The only significant thing I've needed warrantied is a rubbing on the gel coat due to the walk-thru windshield. BUT, I highly doubt every other manufacturer hasn't had this problem too from time to time. I've seen it so many times on an array of boats. My dealer stepped up to the plate and took care of a bunch of little stuff for me some of which were warranty like the vinyl lettering, drain holes and some that weren't their problem like strap marks on the side of the boat due to me pulling it with the cover on. I would love to tell you all that they did for me but this post would need chapters! Here's the plug....Rocky Mountain Boat Co. Pueblo West, Colorado. My experience is this: Great boat for the money, not the highest end boat on the market but there's no doubt it gives you the most bang for your buck! And a little FYI...Skier's Choice was ranked 1st in Customer Service and customer satisfaction. Just look at their sales numbers for the 3rd quarter last year. Go to Moomba.com and click on News and Events. Their market share is growing while everyone elses is shrinking. They must be doing something right?!? I respect negative feedback when it's based on facts. I hate people who bad mouth a product just because they think they are better than someone else and their product! I don't want to name any names Tom! Yes this topic has been brought up before on this message board but don't say it's been beat to ******. Hell, you've only been on WakeWorld for 25 days!! What, are you jealous? Jealous that no ones asking about your baby? By the way, who owns the Mastercraft you ride in?
I'm going to stop now and let this one go...let's chaulk it up to inexperience.







(Message edited by kraig on June 28, 2003)
Old    bigdaddy            06-29-2003, 1:58 PM Reply   
"The company that makes them(as well as the dealerships) is pretty bad for service and warranty claims, which most people seem to have alot of."


Ah, to be young and ignorant again. Perhaps young Tom will enlighten us all as to where he got his statistics ("most people") from.
Um, Tom, wouldn't that be at least 51% of their customers unsatisfied? Have you compared that moronic math to all the positive posts versus negative posts on Skiers Choice? Did you ask me? I've had my Outback LS for almost 2 years, take it out every week year round, with ZERO problems. Nothing. The dealer here in Orlando is a great guy and seems like the factory reps are no different.
I'm thinking Tom's just one of those boat snobs, and who cares what he thinks. Moomba builds a great boat, for half the cost of the overpriced jobs.
My boat came loaded for a little over 20,000....brand new, CD player, tower, wake plate, bimini top, depth finder, 4 blade stainless prop, tilt wheel, etc.
'Nuff said.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-29-2003, 5:58 PM Reply   
Brian, just as a note since you are ripping Tom's "moronic math" maybe you need a lesson in the word overpriced. How can a boat or any article of retail consumption be overpriced if demand outstrips supply or = supply? Please explain if you have a different economic theory you would like to share with the rest of us.
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-29-2003, 6:28 PM Reply   
Shane-
I can answer your question concerning "Overpriced" and Supply and Demand theory. I've got an answer that's in black and white. Let's first define what we are talking about. If demand exceeds supply the price will rise. If supply exceeds demand the price will go down. If the price continues to rise and demand slows you then get overpriced. Overpriced would indicate a slowdown of demand. Are you with me?
So, the question is "Have we seen a slow down in a product due to it's price?" Yes! Like I mentioned in my last email, please visit Moomba.com and click on the News and Events link at the bottom and look at the 3rd quarter sales for all the major boat brands. If you will see the big three are in the negative for volume and Skier's Choice is at a positive 26% Wouldn't this indicate a slow down of demand?!?!?!? Now you could argue that it's just the slow down of the economy that has caused the big three to be in negative numbers. But that would be an invalid reason due to the 26% increase for Skier's Choice. This example drives home the point of overpriced even more!!
SO SHANE, does this answer your question?!? I can't be too hard on ya due to you didn't have anything negative to say about Skier's Choice, but be careful who you defend! Haven't heard from Tom yet........Tom, I'm waiting........
Brian, glad to hear you love your Outback LS!!

(Message edited by kraig on June 29, 2003)
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-29-2003, 6:59 PM Reply   
Kraig, I am so sorry, even though the logic behind your argument is good, I would dare say if I had a look at the dealer inventories, price is not falling by any stretch of the imagination unless for seasonal inventory reduction, which is an annual occurence. If demand is in fact slowing, price should be going down, correct? Most manufacturers will increase prices for 04. Are you saying that Malibu, SAN, and MC will decrease production or reduce price because there is less demand? I don;t think so. In the micro sense of the theory as long as a seller and buyer agree upon price in the market, how can a good be termed overpriced? I won't say anyting bad about skiers choice, but I do not think the moomba's even came close to the malibu's.
Old    Ryan Bush (ryanbush11)      Join Date: May 2003       06-29-2003, 8:51 PM Reply   
and also tom, if your engine breaks you have to deal with indmar. at least i had to.
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-29-2003, 9:00 PM Reply   
Shane-
Of course price is not falling by any stretch of the imagination. I would have to agree with you, that's my point! As for dealer inventories, the big three will have larger inventories than Skier's Choice due to the fact that they sell more boats. But they are selling less and less every year and Skier's Choice is selling more and more. Did you look at the 3rd quarter sales for last year like I asked? In fact if you look at it, Skier's Choice has passed Correct Craft in boat sales. So I guess you could say that Skier's Choice is part of the "Big Three." As for your comment on if a customer and a company agree on a price how can it be termed overpriced? In that example no! But with the fact that they are selling less and less boats and another manufacturer is selling more and more at a considerable discount, would indicate "Overpriced." As for your question concerning if Malibu, SAN, or MC will decrease production or price, of course they won't decrease production. But if they continue to see a decline in sales (Which I feel sorry for SAN) they will need to address the issue. It seems to me that Skier's Choice is out there doing what the other's don't want to do, put out a good product at a good price, in otherwards more "Bang for your Buck!" I have nothing bad to say about any of the ski boat manufacturers, they all put out a great product. But without competition the prices will continue to sky rocket. Look at it this way, the boats that everyone loves and says are the best are the boats that retail for $40-50-60k Right? And what are these boats designed to do? Put out an incredible wake for wakeboarding. Right? Who can afford these boats? Kids in their 20's? I'm going to have to say that these boats are a little out of their reach. So who can afford them? People in their 30's? 40's? 50's? Yes! Are these the people who are wakeboarding at the level to need a boat of that class? No! The pro's in their 20's and early 30's get access to these boats because they're sponsored by them. Skier's Choice sees this! And because of this people are bad mouthing them and saying that they're cheap and that they're crap. If you need an example, scroll up! No, my interior is not as plush as yours Shane, no my boat isn't as big as yours. But did I pay as much as you? No. Will I someday have a boat that size? Yeah probably. But let's compare apples to apples. I would put a Supra up against a Malibu any day. Are they both a great boat? Yes!
Old    muji (mujibur)      Join Date: May 2002       06-29-2003, 10:49 PM Reply   
Kraig,
I tend to agree with your thoughts above - i think the market has absorbed the higher prices through more "creative" financing and lower interest rates - 4.9% at 15 years(pretty common today) can buy a lot more boat than 9.9% at 8 - 10 years (the average 5 years ago).
Just food for thought - i do personally prefer Moomba/Supra - i also prefer Chevy, but my brothers ford works great too - , most people who are 1st time boat owners do not realize that 90% of the experience has to do with the DEALER NOT THE MFG. When they go to buy again they usually never return to a bad dealer no matter what the brand. Anyways, just food for thought, rates will eventually go up, production of these popular boats will begin to optimize and prices will stabilize - as for me i am having one great time on the water and i'm not getting any younger, so unless someone can sell me minus 3-5 years off the age i am out to spend the $$ it takes to ride until my knees wont let me ;-) My stick/boat is still bigger than yours too :0 Ė so take that.
Old    andy (33drew)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-29-2003, 11:43 PM Reply   
Kraig, i thought supras were just as expensive as MC/BU/SN if not why have two different names?
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-30-2003, 5:11 AM Reply   
Kraig, you are correct in the sense if sales do keep falling for the big three, there will be a price decrease. They will have encountered the portion of the production cycle in which consumers do not see any marginal benefit of the cost difference between the big three and the others. I guess I look at the market from a micro perspective (here in dallas) where there are kids in their 20's with the expensive boats, and guys and girls in the 30's that have some sick skills, check out www.dallaswakeboarding.com It's interesting that you bring up the point of a SAN, I think SAN is the top boat by a hair, did I feel the marginal benefit was worth the extra cost, nope. Another issue is that dealer reputation adds an intangible to any boat sale. It's been good discussing economics, I think I will go back and read some keynes this summer. Peace.
Old    tommyadrian5            06-30-2003, 5:57 AM Reply   
My original post...apparently some of you don't have great reading comprehension. I wasn't bashing Moomba, just telling him what i had seen through reading countless posts on them. I'm glad the three of you are happy with your boats and have only had "minor" problems with them. You are 3 against about 50 on this BB. Good work, bring your moomba out to the chesapeake bay where we board we'll see how long it last on the way down the river in 2-3 foot waves.

Now i'll respond to the 2 satisfied mooomba owners on the board:

Kraig - 1) I bought my boat, paid cash actually.

2) I don't care that people don't ask about my "baby". It does what it is made to do, well, with no problems, ever, so i don't really need to talk about my boat.

3) I'm not agreeing that the prices for X-stars or SANTE's are justifiable at all. I would never pay 50-60K for any ski boat. But i can tell you this, my '99 Mastercraft X-5 that I paid $17,500 for will last a whole lot longer with less problems than your 2002 MooMoos.


One more Question:
What are you doing sitting on a computer typing about how great your boat is on a saturday and sunday. Is the boat in the shop. Get on the water, sorry it took me so long to respond, but i use my boat on the weekends, don't sit on a computer ranting and raving about how great it is.

(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on June 30, 2003)
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 7:05 AM Reply   
Ben,

I personally love my 2000 Mob-V. I haven't had a single problem with it, and I have 350 hours on the motor now. I don't understand how people can side so defiantly against a certain boat or brand when they havn't actually ridden in our behind it.

I run over 2000lbs ballast in my boat on a regular basis, and with our weather in Seattle my boat sees two to three foot chop often. I've yet to have a single problem with rattles or cracks due to inclimate water conditions.

I ride with a large group of people up here year round and I've never had a complaint about wake size and shape, comfort of layout in the boat, or overall quality. Believe me, these guys are not shy when it comes to picking a boat apart, and it's met with there approval so far.

Tom,

My boat sold for $32,000 new in 2000. Mob-v's are going for near that price used now. Your boat sold for 36,500 new in 99, and you were able to purchase it for $17,500???. I would be concerned with a boat that looses half of it's value in a little over four years.
Old    tommyadrian5            06-30-2003, 7:09 AM Reply   
why would you be concerned about a boat losing half its value in four years, it loses about 20% the first time you drop a new boat in the water. I don't see how you can say a 2000 Mob-v is going for $32,000.

This was a 2000 Mobius listed for sale in 2001 with only 90 hours for $24,000, i know it isn't the mobius V but it shows you how much value a boat loses in its first year.

http://www.flipsell.com/Phase3/home/DispVehicle.asp?VehicleID=2231

(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on June 30, 2003)
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 7:41 AM Reply   
Tom,

The Moomba Mobius direct drive sells for about 26,500 new. If your theory is correct, this boat is depreciating at an average of $1250.00 a year. Your boat on the other hand has been losing it's value by $4700.00 a year.

Hmmmmmm???
Old    tommyadrian5            06-30-2003, 8:14 AM Reply   
Even with your numbers, which i don't understand, here is the correct math $26,500-$24,000=$2,500 for your depreciation calculation.


By the way, if you read the owners comments on the flipsell ad you would see that he paid $28,000(base price + his options) plus $3,000 in taxes for the boat to bring his new boat total to $31,000, meaning he is losing $7,000 after using the boat for a year($4,000 if you exclude taxes), assuming he could/did sell the boat for his asking price. That's not too great.


Plus, a new Mobius direct drive bone dry (that's "no options whatsoever") is $28,495, with a carburated engine(does anyone really want one of these anymore). You can configure your own on the moomba website if you think otherwise. Add the EFI engine (worth its weight in gold) and the options that my boat has on it (nothing out of the ordinary, stuff like a swingaway tongue on the trailer, spare tire, swivel head pilon) and you are up to $33,065. Where did you get $26,500 from.

Just for the record, i'm not trying to create a controversy and bash moomba at all. I think that they are doing a good thing making an economical boat for people, as i feel boating should be a right not a privelege. My only argument is it seems that these boats just aren't built to the same standards as a MC or SAN. I'm not advocating the pricing of those boats, and I'm not saying that they are necessarily better for the money. After reading all your posts(good or bad) it seems that Skiers Choice is capable of making good boats, but they seem to have serious issues with quality control, as some boats seem to be fine with no problems, while others could win a case for the lemon law with hardly a fight. That seems to be the sticking point, not quality potential, but quality control. Like i said, i'm not trying to offend owners of moomba, it was opinion, and only that.

(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on June 30, 2003)
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 9:37 AM Reply   
Tom,

the Moomba website considers that you will purchase the boat a 100% of retail. The actual price you would have payed for the boat in 2001 with an average of 10% off of list is somewhere in the range of 26k to 27k. In 2001 there was also a $3000 free upgrade promotion from the factory wich would have covered the tax and licensing. My math was assuming that the boat is two years old. 2*$1250.00=2500 off of the original purchase price.

I don't consider the Moomba line to be in the same class as Mastercraft. I look at it this way, Mastercraft is comperable to let's say Volvo in the auto industry, well built, great reliability, awesome fit and finish, and quality power plants.

Moomba is comperable to let's say Honda, great bargain price wise, built to be made available to the masses at a reasonable price, and an over all reliable boat.

I'm confident that anyone who has ridden in or behind a properly weighted Moomba, (be it the Mobius or Mob-v)would more than likely give it a positive review.

As far as your statement regarding service is concerned, you couldn't be further off base. I bought my boat in late 2001 from a private owner, and by doing so I nullified the factory warranty.
When I had trouble with the Boat Mate trailer that came with it, I thought I would at least try to contact someone at Skiers Choice. A friend of mine gave me Rick Tinkers e-mail adress, and I contacted him with my delima. Rick contacted Boat Mate, and they sent me all new springs free of charge. Anytime I have seen Moomba or Supra issues on this site in the last five years, either Matt Brown or Rick Tinker have gotten involved and helped resolve the issue at hand. In my opinion, that is not just good service, but awesome customer relations.
Old    Kyle (kylek306)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-30-2003, 9:59 AM Reply   
I know this post isn't about supras but my family owns one with one problem so far. It was replaced by skier's choice immediately. I don't see any problems with their boats and I personally think they have the best customer service out of most of the other manufacturers.
Old    tommyadrian5            06-30-2003, 10:16 AM Reply   
The boat on flipsell was one year old(may 00 delivery - may 01 listing on flipsell) Assuming he got the price he was asking(which is a big assumption) the owner of the boat lost $7000 the first year he had the boat, a loss of $4000 if you want to use the capital value of the boat($7000-$3000 taxes), which if ($4,000) divided by $28,000 is a 14.2% loss in the first year. The (using the same simple non-compounding calculation) average annual loss on my boat(which was purchased for $33,500 originally in 99) was $16,000, when divided by the 4 years is $4,000 per year, resulting in an annual loss of value of 11.9% in relation to the original purchase price, meaning it held its value much better over 4 years than the moomba. The reason I got the boat so cheap I bought it from a once-rich dot-com executive who was scraping the bottom of the barrel and i was willing to pay cash.

I agree that when moomba(factory) gets involved things seem to turn out alright, but it seems as if some of their dealers are less than able or lack the desire to fix many common problems (not problems specific to moomba's) and tend to shrug off warranty issues with quick fixes or bad service.
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 12:23 PM Reply   
Tom,

you validated my point. I was assuming that the original owner of your boat payed 100% retail $36.500, he probably got the same so called deal that most dealers offer.

The boat on flipsell is just one example of a Moomba for sale, and could easily be considered an exception instead of the rule. As far as his description, I highly doubt he paid $28k pre tax and licensing unless he is a complete moron. More than likely he is trying to recoupe as much as he can to cover as much of the total loan amount as he can, including T/L, a very common move with rookie boat sellers who get in too deep and then end up upside down in the loan when they try to sell.

My original point was that the Moomba line holds it's value as well if not better than the big three, and I'll stick with that.

As far as dealers service is concerned I've seen just as many complaints from people who own big three boats as I have from those who have purchased from Skiers Choice dealers. The difference I've noticed is how quickly the guys at Skiers Choice jump in and work to resolve issues.
Old    cws_kahuna            06-30-2003, 12:54 PM Reply   
I am a happy Moomba owner, so I guess that makes 3 or 4 of us now. I think the main thing a lot of you don't consider is not all of us want to/or can pay 50K for a new boat. Then you guys bash the people who don't have the 50K boats telling us how our MooMoos will fall apart in 3 days. Do you drive by every person not owning a Porshe laughing at them?
Yes if I were paying 50K I would expect more like Mastercraft, Malibu, Correct Craft, Supra and some others deliver. I paid 25K and I got a great boat that everyone I know has a blast in. The Quality is good vs. the great quality of the boats listed above. The Biggest problem I had with my boat was from the dealer I bought it from. That problem is fixed now for me. You guys act like no other boat has any problems. For me personally, Skiers Choice has taken care of all my needs and they have even gone that extra mile.

Steven Cowen, I hope your ride gets fixed soon.

PS. Nice economics lesson
Old    Razzman (razz)      Join Date: May 2002       06-30-2003, 1:39 PM Reply   
I am blown away by Kraig's ignorant statement...

"So who can afford them? People in their 30's? 40's? 50's? Yes! Are these the people who are wakeboarding at the level to need a boat of that class? No!"

I don't know about Colorado but here in Hawaii (a small wakeboarding community) there are quite a few guys in their 30's who rip. In fact last season the Masters Division (30-39 yrs old) was the most competitive division behind the Outlaw (Open) division.

The best boat made is the one that makes you happy. For those of you who are not happy with your boat I hope it gets fixed or you get another boat. (Of course this is just my opinion.)
Old    NoneYa (noneya)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-30-2003, 1:53 PM Reply   
I bought an Outback brand new last year for about 20g's, we have nearly 200 hours w/out any problems. I looked at posts on here and wakeboarder.com both before and after buying, from what I have seen most comments have been positive. I'm really happy w/ mine, the wake isnt pro level but neither am I.
Old    bigdaddy            06-30-2003, 2:09 PM Reply   
My decision to buy a Moomba was based on 2 criteria:
1) Value for the dollar....hard to beat a Moomba on that one.

2) Customer satisfaction....after reading all the good things about Skiers Choice on this board and others, I went with the Moomba, and couldn't be happier.

Tom, as for your question about why we're not on the lake over the weekend, did it ever occur to you that some people work weekends? My days off are Weds. & Thurs. No one on the lake but us. Here's something to think about before you post again..."Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it."
Old    Jason Thayer (jtfrisco)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-30-2003, 2:37 PM Reply   
I am with Cliff on the resale value... I bought my 2000 outback New in 2001 from the dealer.. The boat had a tower and no hours on it. I paid $20k out the door (ttl included). The same year model boat is selling on flipsell and a the local dealer for around $18k. I have had the boat for two years and can sell it for that much.. Losing a grand a year is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I am more than pleased with my boat and the service I have received from both my local dealer and Skiers choice.
Old    stormrider            06-30-2003, 3:06 PM Reply   
Well, I guess I'm a fool then, too. And Chip Gay is. And the guy who e-mailed me with all his Moomba problems is a fool. And so's the guy I spoke with out at the lake on Saturday.

For the life of me I do not understand why people have to flame other people on bulletin boards. If you don't agree with someone, address the issue and let the vitriol go.

Tom, from the perspective of a Moomba owner that has had more than his fair share of problems, I can certainly identify with your characterization of what it is like to own a Moomba. Friday, I was going nuts trying to get ahold of my driver, who had the boat out at the lake, trying to let him know to check the transmission fluid just in case it was getting low.

Hawaii owners: it seems to me that you guys are really exposed by the weakness of Moomba's warranty. If the powertrain breaks, neither the dealer nor Moomba have to do anything, unless your warranty is different. Power train problems are Indmars problems and if you don't have an Indmar repair facility on the islands, what then?

As for Moomba customer service, I will shortly see. My plan is to let them take the boat to try and fix the transmission (for the fourth time). Rubber's gonna meet the road. Tranny ain't easy like a trailer, or windshield mountings or a guage popping out.

If Indmar can get the boat back in 2 weeks, I'll post it, and Fogey can send me a plate of Tennessee crow and I'll send him a picture of me with fork and knife in hand. But if Indmar starts yawning and puts my free work boat at the end of the line and I don't see it for a while, that'll provide very good evidence of what type of customer service Moomba provides on serious problems. Then we will all have a piece of tangible, objective evidence to also consider.

Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 3:41 PM Reply   
Steven,

I only hope it gets fixed to your satisfaction-- and that you soon get a boat you feel you can be comfortable with.

As for sending some you some crow--LOL. I wouldn't think of it. But maybe you need to come to Tennessee to find some good dealer.

Shortly after I bought my Supra, I saw my dealer (that is, the OWNER of Knoxville Watersports) and a mechanic on a Thursday night at the local marina. They were working on a 3-year-old D-drive Supra, replacing the transmission--under warranty--even though he did not sell the boat when it was new. He didn't even require the owner to tow it to his shop (about 15 miles away). He also has worked on my boat at the marina, including EARLY one Saturday morning so I could have the boat all day.

He now also is a Moomba dealer.

(Message edited by fogey on June 30, 2003)
Old    Chuck J (wake_eater)      Join Date: May 2003       06-30-2003, 5:03 PM Reply   
jeff,

i agree--Rusty is a great guy & has hooked me up with service. example: comes to house to winterize & dewinterize. like you, i didnt buy my boat from him. when i buy again i'm pretty darn sure it'll be a supra. and i love my moomba outback ls. i realize its not the most tricked out boat around, but for the money how can u go wrong?

ps--what marina do u keep your supra, i keep my outback at fox rd.
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 7:38 PM Reply   
Steven,

Based on these guys actions here the last few years, I'll stick with my opinion regarding Rick, and Matt. If you aren't able to get resolve, I have a feeling that one of them will continue to work with you until your issues are resolved.
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-30-2003, 7:53 PM Reply   
William,

No way. I don't recall seeing an Outback at Fox Road. That's where my Supra is -- along with three of the many 03 SSVs that Rusty has sold this year.

Check your e-mail.
Old    todd vierra (lsv_doc)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-30-2003, 10:02 PM Reply   
New Mobius LSV, no problems same dealer as stormrider, but I guess I have had better luck.
Old    mconly            06-30-2003, 10:24 PM Reply   
???? how can you go wrong with a moomba.
1. wait till you want something else. the resale, well it has none!
2. the wake (where) unless you want to spend your life filling saks in your great new wakeboard boat.
3. those other boats are not waving their pointing and saying why?
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-30-2003, 11:12 PM Reply   
Wow! This has gotten to be an incredible topic to discuss again. Andrew, to answer your question on why there are two different names for the boats that Skier's Choice makes? Skier's Choice began by a group of guys who left Mastercraft to start their own boat manufacturing company. Something about price and quality problems at Mastercraft and they couldn't put up with it anymore. Ok, Ok, Ok, sorry about that last comment. It was below the belt and just for fun! LOL Skier's Choice made Supra boats. A boat that they build to compete with MC, and others at a lesser price. Not a huge difference though. Skier's Choice had an opportunity to buy out another boat company called Moomba. Moomba was an Australian company. Skier's Choice bought the molds and the rights and brought it over here to the U.S. This was to be their value priced line. It's kinda like a Toyota and a Lexus. Same vehicles, just ones more plush and nicer than the other. Both are a great dependable product.
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-30-2003, 11:27 PM Reply   
Razzman-
Yes, there is going to be exceptions to the rule. I don't think that your small wakeboarding community is the norm across the U.S. I'm glad to hear how good you guys are and you're doing it into your late 30's. I'd love to be there and be apart of your wakeboarding community. I hope that I'm still going at it into my late 30's. As for my comment, come on now...you can't honestly say that the majority of people wakeboarding in their 20's can all afford the boats that cost $40-50-60K?!? Common sense would tell you this. In other words, are all the kids in their 20's that you know driving Mercedes? Or are they driving Hondas, Toyotas, Chevy's? I'm sure there are the little wakeboarding communities with people into their 30's rippin it up and I'm soooo glad to see it. And I'm sure there are a few people out there that are in their 20's who are buying $40-50-60k boats. But again, these are exceptions to the rule.
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-30-2003, 11:50 PM Reply   
Tom-
Nice try on trying to save face on the board! I like how you now say your not bashing Moombas and that they are doing a good job at putting out an economical boat. Then you say that Skier's Choice has problems with quality control. Tom, the people who created Skier's Choice came from Mastercraft. I can get you the whole story if you'd like and why they left. If you compare the construction schematics of a Skier's Choice boat and a MC, it's damn near identical. In fact, if I recall correctly, in my original research of which boat to buy Skier's Choice does a few more things in their molds and construction of the hull that MC doesn't do. I'd put a Supra hull up against a MC hull anyday!! I love all this back tracking your doing with your words after you made comments like "It' miss" and "they are so cheap that if you don't mind only using the boat half the summer you can use the money you save on the purchase fixing it." Oh and I love this one "In terms of construction, just try not to hit any wakes...ever!" And the last one "I have a 1999 MC x-5 that I got a hell of alot cheaper used than a new Moomba, and I don't have to worry about it falling apart on me." Now I just have one question, HOW IS THIS NOT SUPPOSED TO OFFEND ANY MOOMBA OWNERS?!?!?! Sounds to me like someone who's knee deep in his own S**T and everyone's calling him on it! Instead of being a man and owning up to his words and saying he was wrong for making those statements he instead comes out with a B***SH*T line "I didn't mean to offend any Moomba owners." Dude, I gave you a chance and said I'd let it go and we'll just chalk this one up to inexperience. But no, you had to go and open your mouth again!

(Message edited by kraig on June 30, 2003)
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-01-2003, 5:15 AM Reply   
Kraig, trust me when I say this there are plenty, of twenty something's and teen somethings with their own SAN's MC's, and Malibu's here in Dallas. It's just a fact. THe same goes for BMW and expensive cars. Age does not preclude nice material objects, at least no in hte DFW metroplex. Dallas is not exactly a small market either.
Old    tommyadrian5            07-01-2003, 6:03 AM Reply   
Kaiser Kraig, with a K, that's so Kool.
you obviously have some insecurities about something, maybe your boat, i can't help you work those out right now. Have a nice day.
Old    mconly            07-01-2003, 7:15 AM Reply   
OK lets keep the facts straight, and we will leave the Moomba and Supra quality questions out of it. People at skiers choice did not leave mastercraft because of supposed quality questions. Lets start right at the top, Skiers Choice now president Rick T. (won't give his full name, this gets ugly) was fired from MasterCraft.
He basiclly pulled an Enron and almost bankrupted MasterCraft, he changed all the finacials during the Wet Jet era costing MC millions. As for other employees, probably those who just could not cut the mustard at MC. In the Knoxville Tennesee you have MC, Malibu, Skiers Choice, and many I/O builders also, all of the more skilled workers want to work at MC for many reasons, they pay more, better work environment ect. But hey don't take my word for it, go and see for your self, I have been to the MC factory 4 times and the Skiers Choice twice, each with in the last 8 months. If you do not think there is much different between those boats, you are way way mislead. Sorry, but that is the TRUTH.
Old    Rick Tinker (rickt)      Join Date: May 2002       07-01-2003, 8:35 AM Reply   
McOnly,

I am glad you have toured our facility. I am here everyday, should you wish to tour our facility again, I would be glad to discuss my role with MasterCraft for 10 years and my current role within Skier's Choice. My office is open anytime. I have alot of friends at MC and respect the job they do. They are great competitor and a quality company.
Old    stormrider            07-01-2003, 9:31 AM Reply   
MConly: with all due respect, you can't be saying stuff about people like the RT blast for one reason: it's libel on its face and you can get sued! I'm sure you were saying it tongue in cheek, but still . . .

Rick, can't find any fault in the response. Keeping it all balanced is cool.
Old    matt (supraman)      Join Date: Jan 2002       07-01-2003, 9:59 AM Reply   
MCOnly,

As if your screenname didn't tell us all we need to know about your bias, you prove exactly what kind of person you are in your last post. Honestly, to register about a week ago and come on here spewing that venom turns my stomach. I vehemently disagree with you, but you're entitled to your view.

However, you're not entitled to come on here and target people without getting called on it. You're post begins with "let's leave the the Moomba and Supra questions out of it" and you proceed directly to personal attacks. Steve says it's libel, which it may be but probably isn't. However, it's clearly wrong. It's not needed here or welcomed.

For the record, I think you're a coward for typing that stuff behind a screen name. What's more, I live in the Knoxville area and have been in recent contact (last month) with multiple people who worked with Rick at Mastercraft, some still with Mastercraft and some at other local boat manufacturers. Upon learning I had a Supra, many of them brought up Rick's name and said that they felt that he was scapegoated/got a raw deal at Mastercraft and had a high regard for him. Your opinion/story is just that. To come on here and post it as fact is appalling.

Frankly when you consider Rick's contributions and involvement in the industry and on this message board compared to yours, there's no contest.

I hope you don't post anymore.

Sincerely,
Matt Guilford
Old    bigdaddy            07-01-2003, 10:21 AM Reply   
Well put, Matt.
You too, Rick.
Old    Christian (degraafics)      Join Date: Mar 2003       07-01-2003, 11:24 AM Reply   
my experience so far with Moomba
I just bought a '03 Mobius LSV Gravity Games Edition from a dealer in Coldwater,Michigan. I live just south of Chicago. (yes It's relavant and I'll explain).
I found a really good deal on my boat, so after going around a few times with the dealer I ended up buying it.
After I got it home my problems began.
I paid the dealer $250 for dealer prep.
These are the problems I noticed:
ē Carpet was hella dirty inside the boat when I picked it up.
ē Radio remote on dash didnít work
ē Smelled electrical burn under dash when I took it out the first time
ē Missing tower speaker plug
ē No bimini hardware and found out later the dealer should have installed this before I picked up the boat
ē Lost board rack mount while towing cause the dealer never tightened them.

Really makes me wonder what the $250 was for. The dealer basically unwrapped the boat and gave it to me, minus taking out the speakers for his boat and messing up the wiring to the radio.
I tried to get a hold of the owner of the dealer and I kept getting told by his son that heíd call me back. NEVER has he called me back except once when I inquired about adding a Perfect Pass System. Iíve tried calling him over 20 times. No, Iím not exaggerating. This is my first boat and wanted to know basic things, but he couldnít even call back once.
I talked to Moomba and said I wanted to take the boat in for warranty work (radio) and to get the 10 hour checkup and find out what the electrical burn smell was. So they sent me 2 hours north into Wisconsin to the next closest dealer. The place I bought it from was 3 hours away from my house, and the dealer in Barrington, IL just got itís dealership pulled.
I took it to Lauderdale Marina. Told them everything that was wrong minus the rack mount (I forgot) and well, I couldnít have been happier after picking the boat up.
They really went out of there way to get everything taken care of. They put on a tower plug, which I was told by the other dealer that they didnít even make and was told by Moomba that it would cost me $48.50 to have them send me one. Lauderdale hooked me up for free plus they put on the missing rack mount which I never told them about.
I couldnít believe it. Finally after getting treated like crap by the last dealer and then basically slapped in the face by the manufacturer I had found someone that really knows what customer service is. I will buy my next boat from Lauderdale Marina (they sell Moomba, Supra and Correct Craft), and it will be a Nautique.
Iím really happy with the LSV and I donít have complaints about my boat. I believe everything that was wrong with the boat was because of the dealer I bought it from. Youíd think you spend $34k on a boat that they could treat you well. I guessíd wrong.
Itís all about finding a good dealer and Iíll never make that mistake again. Iíll never do business with the dealer I bought my boat from and Iíll bad-mouth him EVERY chance I get. Sorry for the long post.


(Message edited by degraafics on July 01, 2003)
Old    Kraig Kaiser (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-01-2003, 11:42 AM Reply   
Chritian-
Excellent post! No emotion, just facts. I respect the negative feedback and I'm sure Skier's Choice does too when it comes from facts and experiences. These are what every boat manufacturer should be looking for in order to improve customer service. I'm sorry I had to get so emotional in my last post, but it's tough to leave out the emotion sometimes. I know for a fact that many people and dealers from Skier's Choice frequent these boards and this whole topic hopefully will be of help to them.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-01-2003, 12:17 PM Reply   
Christian,

Why are you mad at Skier's Choice? You said you felt "slapped in the face by the manufacturer."
Did they not point you to the best dealer?
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-01-2003, 1:54 PM Reply   
I'll stick up for Skiers Choice also.

I recently had some small problems with my boat and dealer. Skiers Choice jumped in and helped me out and now I am more than satisfied. You got to give it up to Rick Tinker and Matt Brown who frequent this discussion board often. You don't see the head honchos at MC, Malibu, CC or other boat manufacturers come on here and respond directly to the consumers questions or problems. Why is that? Seems to me the other manufacturers are out of touch with the public they are trying to sell boats to. What better way to get a market analysis of your product but go to a website that reaches to thousands of people.

What ever happened in the past with Rick and MC should be left to rest. Just look at what he has done with Skiers Choice. Skiers Choice is a company that is growing and has tapped the market in luxury and affordable wakeboard boats.

Old    Razzman (razz)      Join Date: May 2002       07-01-2003, 2:24 PM Reply   
A.P.,

I think it's great that Rick and Matt post on WW. That doesn't mean the other boat manufacturers don't monitor WW or other boards. When I call West Coast Correct Craft I get immediate and satisfactory results. Therefore no need to post my problems on WW. One time I posted a THANK YOU to WCCC on this board. They did not respond to the post but the next time I called for help they said thanks for posting on WW. The mechanic said copies of it were posted all over their office.

I think most boat manufacturer's try to do the right thing. I think each boat has its strenghts and weaknesses. The best thing about the competition tow boat industry is we have more choices than ever before. This allows each and everyone of us to find a boat that suits our own preferences. I understand some people will have bad experiences and they have every right to share them on WW. What I don't understand are the unsubstantiated attacks and how personnally people take this stuff. I don't believe in the "Big 3". I believe in the right boat for the right person.

Best of luck Ben in finding that boat for you!
Old    hlboatsnboards            07-01-2003, 8:38 PM Reply   
This post got good!! wish I would have caught it earlier!! LOL!! I am to biased to post anything about any boats, so I won't. You get what you pay for, thats the bottom line with everything you do. May it be boats, equipment, cars, jewelry, home....

B
Old    A. P. (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-01-2003, 11:20 PM Reply   
Razz-

I don't doubt the boat manufacturers monitor this site. But why don't they ever respond when people attack or praise their product.

You never see the president of Malibu or MC coming on this site and giving their personal email address to the public and basically giving permission for people to tell them their problems and he will take care of it. To me that is very admirable and shows how much Skiers Choice is willing to do for their customers.
Old    hockeyruss            07-02-2003, 4:19 AM Reply   
Hey, as most of you know I am a Malibu guy and probably will always be a Malibu guy. I would like to still take this time to say Kudos to Rick Tinker and Matt Brown for being so accessible and truely wanting to help us (the customers).
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-02-2003, 5:17 AM Reply   
I agree with BnB to an extent. There ain't no free lunch, and you don't get MORE than you pay for.

However, the reverse isn't necessarily true. There is no rule that says a company can charge more only if it provides a better product. Yes, I know about market theory, but we're talking about the real world here, where people have imperfect knowledge, and they also have biases and psychological needs as well as performance needs.

You can see this in any issue of Consumer Reports. In many comparison reports, there is a less expensive item that outperforms more expensive, highly regarded brands. In some other instances, the higher priced item may perform marginally better, but with a MUCH higher price.

You'll never get more than you pay for, but writing a big check isn't the answer. Only YOU can ensure you get as MUCH as you pay for. Caveat emptor.
Old    Razzman (razz)      Join Date: May 2002       07-02-2003, 11:21 AM Reply   
A.P.,

Just to clarify my point...I think it is great that Rick and Matt respond publicly to this website. My point was simply that other manufacturers choose to respond privately with their customers. I personally prefer to take care of my problems one on one privately. When I have a boat problem I call my dealer or WCCC. I don't think it is wrong for people to want to try and resolve their problems in public. It is just not the way I prefer it. It also seems to be the way CC, MC, and BU prefer to handle it. I don't think either way is wrong. You seem to think one way is wrong and one way is right. That was my point.
Old    Christian (degraafics)      Join Date: Mar 2003       07-02-2003, 12:13 PM Reply   
Tre,
I felt slapped in the face because Moomba wanted me to pay for a part that I thought their dealer should have included on the boat when I bought it.
It didn't seem like a good idea to leave an open electrical plug on the outside of the hull, so I wanted to get the plug to fix that problem.
Skiers Choice didn't really lead me to the best dealer. This was just the closest dealer to my house (2 hours from this dealer). The other dealer that was closer had it's Moomba dealership taken away from them (Barrington Marina).
It just so happened that the guys at Lauderdale have really great customer service and really took care of me. I don't think that has anything to do with Skiers Choice, but has everything to do with the people at that dealer.
If Skiers Choice really wanted to have good customer service then I don't think they'd have dealers like the one I bought my boat from. As a company, you'll be known by your representives/dealers. I had a horrible experience with this dealer and at no time did Moomba help me. I probably talked to Anthony 3-5 times about the problems I had, and everytime I talked to him I mentioned the issues with the Coldwater dealer. I never had anyone say, sorry about the crappy service, or I'll send you out the bimini hardware that you where supposed to get with the boat or anything from Skiers Choice.
So that is why I feel like they slapped me?
I have no loyalty to a company that doesn't know what real Customer Service is, and even less for companies that don't have good dealers.
I lucked into finding Lauderdale, that's it.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-02-2003, 1:50 PM Reply   
Christian - I understand your point about the plug and the expectation of an "I'm sorry". At the same time they may have pulled Barrington because of problems. I think they pulled House of inboards because they were a bad dealership. Barrington "took over" house of inboards but never even opened the building (in fox lake). I went to the main Barrington building ONCE for parts for my Supra and they seemed clueless about Supra. They also had only one Moomba and one Supra in stock (this was last summer). I assume this is why the Moomba/Supra line was pulled from them. It looks like Skiers Choice is trying to clean up their dealers. Barrington also had no idea how to compete with Munson ski (Malibu). When I drive by Munson is looks like they have 100 boats on their lot. I hope they get a good dealer near us soon.
Old    markb            07-02-2003, 6:05 PM Reply   
If you guys want an awsome Skiers Choice/Nautique dealer, drive 4 hours south to Extreme in Greenville. They are top notch. New or used, these guys will stand by what they sell.
Old    dukeboy66            07-03-2003, 1:01 PM Reply   
MarkB, I'll second that! My wife sold my outback last October. Doesn't look like there will be another one in the garage this year. Maybe next. You can bet it will be from Extreme. Dan is the MAN. I had a small accident and he had me back on the water in less than a week. He even had me in the boat boarding with a guy named Shawn Murry while he finished it up! Can't complain about that.
Old    chip_boarder            07-07-2003, 11:35 AM Reply   
I found it interesting that the president of skiers choice reads and responds to these discussion boards. If the dealer and customer service people were as responsive maybe I wouldn't have had all these problems. Christian we have the same boat and many similar problems. It is sad, but it is nice to know I am not alone. Mistakes made by Skiers Choice and the dealer add up to cause many problems. My new problem this week is the drivers side rear sack won't fill.

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